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1997 - Week 38


 

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 03:42:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Scholars in Observation

In a message dated 97-09-21 21:20:27 EDT, John Rogers writes:

<< So are you aware of what your life task is, and how all of this
smaller stuff fits into the big puzzle? This is my BIG issue. I am
really clueless here. Does anyone have a methodology for ferreting
this out? If I could figure out what my real purpose was for this
lifetime, I know everything else would fall into place. >>

I hate to be simplistic here amidst all the tongue wagging of the sage/scholar throng, but I think on an essence level, the real purpose of life is to just play the game. There's no right or wrong way play to it, it's simply a matter of making choices. These choices than provide the most important element of the match -- that of experience. From lifetime to lifetime, we come here to experience life from as many viewpoints as possible. Yes, the pursuit of happiness, monetary success and leggy super models are added details, but in the overall schematic, experience is, in my non-sage/scholar opinion, the reason we are here.

Now in terms of discovering the specific details of a particular existence, I think the best gauge is your own inner feelings. Whatever you LOVE to do is the best probable path to take. When you do what you love, your essence has a much better chance of guiding you down a path that will best fulfill your inner most needs.

Dave - an artisan (in observation at the moment)


Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 04:01:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Scholars in Observation (make Artisans beg for mercy)

In a message dated 97-09-21 21:16:52 EDT, John Rogers writes:

<< > This is the one that would get me in trouble the most. Most of my bosses
> didn't want me telling them how to do my own job better, much less my
> telling them how to do "their" job better. I remember telling one
> vice-president of engineering (and in front of my own supervisor yet)
> that I wanted his job. My supervisor almost fell through the floor, and
> so did my section manager when he found out. The VP, to the contrary,
> found it amusing, and said "Hey, you can "have" the job." Needless to
> say I resigned this job too.

I remember very clearly, just after enlisting in the army, my
recruiting warning me about this. He said that I would find quickly
that I was more "intelligent" than the majority of my superiors, and
that I needed to be tactful about challenging their methodology. >>

In "Messages from Michael" the not as windful Michael says, "the old scholar is detached, aloof, and often ARROGANTLY INTELLECTUAL." ;-p

Come on, guys. I realize that as old souls the routines of existence can become very tedious, and that it's nice to find some validation for our feelings via these teachings, but as I read through these "on-the-job" stories, the only thing I could think of was, "geez, these guys are real knuckle-heads!" ;-p Now I've known many scholars who talk big and perform small, and many sages who only need the assistance of a swivel chair to boost their ego, but fellows, your description was by far, the most amusing example I've ever read. ;-p

Of course, I'm only messing with ya as part of my role as a (with a deep voice)...ARTISAN IN OBSERVATION. ;-p

Dave


Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:52:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Scholars in Observation & Life Task

Kate McMurry wrote:

[clipped]

> Great advice, Kenneth, and it sounds like it led you to find a way to be
> true to your Scholar. So do you make a living at it? This is the next
> question in all our minds, before we rush off to follow in your
> footsteps, so I'll be impertinent enough to ask. <G>

In part, I do. As a freelance computer geek I have been asked to
1) find specific stuff on the internet,
2) create a test instrument for a couple of psychologists,
3) help folks with Win3.1 to Win95 conversion problems,
4) teach computer literacy to an admin assistant
5) help computer newbies get over their newbieness
6) etc, etc.

all of which I get good hourly money for.

In addition to the above I also do
7) astrology readings (which include overleaves)
8) sell astrology reports
9) spiritual counseling (which may include almost any mode)
10) healing assistance for those who ask for it (usually freebies)
11) etc, etc.

And finally I "know" beyond any shadow of doubt, that I was sent here, by essence, primarily to "experience" this wonderfully important time frame, and that as long as I am doing that (and staying out of the negative poles) I will always have all my needs, and almost all of my preferences, available to me. Looking back on the bumps and holes and shitpiles in my life path, it was always me who put them there.

I find that as I "consciously" define the way I prefer my life to be, my life becomes what I prefer it to be. This, regardless of any money involved. TAO/Essence makes the choice of doing directly or via money. I never no which until it happens.

Instead of having to put up the money for a car (+insurance), I declared that I always have a good car available to me. Now, I have three friends who travel a lot and they leave their car keys with me (2 infinitis and a beamer) when they travel. I did "not" ask them to do this. They offered on their own initiative.

Instead of having to dig up the money to live in a beautiful and "quiet" home, six years ago I saw in a dream/vision the very same place where I am presently living. It is a beautiful, quiet, spacious two-bedroom condo with off-white carpetting and polished brass fittings, overlooking a lake, etc. I said "YES" to the vision. One year after that vision my mother asked me to come live with her. I didn't want to leave Hawaii, and resisted for several months until my inner guidance said that this is where my path is leading. So I came here to Maryland (from Hawaii, no less) and, lo and behold, moved into this condo palace (the same one as in my vision) rent-free. It took some adjustment for my mother to stop "mothering at" me, but she is doing well in this respect.

I found out after I arrived here in Columbia, MD that my mother and I are task companions for each other. We both often wonder whether I was her mother who died 6 months before I was born. She is 87 years old in body and legally blind, but 50-something in mind, and needs a full time caregiver. I am that caregiver. I need a compatible place to live while I am here. She offered me that as best she could. It is satisfactory.

In other ways life/universe supplies me with everything I "declare" for. I have learned to not just "ask" or "supplicate" for what I desire, but to "strongly and powerfully" declare and "feel gratitude" that I "already have" whatever it is I prefer. This is one doozy of an attitude to get into, especially after having been raised as an episcopalian alter boy and alcolyte.

So, Kate, I don't just "make a living" at being a scholar in observation; I have (and do) consciously define "being my living" to be the way I prefer it to be. In the above manner I have dictated to life the way I prefer my "living" to be, and life/essence assists me immensely in "making a living" for me. One must participate with life in one's own living by strongly defining one's preferences. (I don't know where all those one's came from, but I just went along with the program here.)

[clipped]

> > My entity folks, when any of us still in human form have a major
> > challenge in our lives, have two sayings:
> > 1) If you don't like your reality then change it.
> > 2) How do you change it: Use your imagination and give energy to the image.
> > This usually drew arguments from us mere mortals about
> > responsibilities, but they kept telling us something like "everything conceivable is
> > possible" and that "awareness is the key to happiness and freedom".
> >
>
> This makes total sense to me, Kenneth. In this regard, I've found it
> helps me greatly in resolving unbearable situations to talk to my
> essence and the Tao and say, flat out and very strongly, "I've had it
> with this karma, it needs to be lifted off, NOW."

!!!!!!! Flat out and "very" strongly !!!!!!!

This also scares a lot of people who cannot conceive of addressing "TAO", "Higher Self" or "Supreme Being" in this most commanding and forthright manner. This manner is exactly what got me off the streets and roads of the big island of Hawaii, after a 3-month experience of being homeless. Talking about a shot of upright humility!

Sometimes, when the karma is getting too heavy, I just call a recess or a time out, and the shit stops immediately. At least long enough for me to catch my breath and get my feet under myself, and then it restarts again right where it left off. Other times I have "Graced myself", by telling essence "OK, bottomline it for me." I then found out about stuff I was unknowingly taking for granted that really was/is not true.

> Then I stay open to any and all inspirations that come to me as to concrete
> actions I need to take to make what I've asked for materialize. I have used this
> technique multiple times in my life, and it always, always works. Even
> the most "impossible" situations (involving guilt and shame around
> "family responsibilities," like John, these are biggies for me this
> lifetime, real karma mills <G> ), have resolved that way. Suddenly, my
> vision clears--I'm like a cart horse whose blinders have been lifted
> off. I can now see peripherally all sorts of possibilities that weren't
> visible before. As a result, my choices increase and my sense of
> victimization (helpless hopelessness) goes down.

Saying open, Amen. It always works. It cannot not work. I have also defined myself as being "Harmless" in the sense of not "ever" having an adverse effect on "anyone" regardless of my decisions, actions, or non-actions. This allows for the effective, harmonious, and peaceful resolution of all situations being addressed.

[clipped]

> Money is the No. 1 thing that spouses fight about--there are so many huge
> fear issues around money in people, esp. in this culture where money has
>, so much to say about social value. Also, another wrinkle comes up when it
> is the very relationship (one's spouse) which has "enslaved" one into needing
> a paycheck from a non-fulfilling job that simultaneously gives one the emotional
> freedom to start (maybe for the first time really seriously) asking the big
> questions you list above, Kenneth.
> Especially, "If money were no object, what would you
> most like to do?" Most people cannot even *imagine* asking that
> question, because money seems to be, always, an object, and to allow
> oneself to think about money *not* being an object seems too big a stretch.

Re-learning to "imagine" like I could when I was a little kid, was a major major step in my personal growth. It has allowed me to conceive of many more possibilities and choices than I thought I had. Speaking of little kid imagination: I used to play at being a broadcaster and giving people news that I would read from magazines and newspapers. Never did that one, tho. I once was an engineer/diskjocky, but the news came directly from a satellite feed.

I clearly remember my OS money terrors, even when I was making good money and had everything I wanted. It was very difficult for me to stop "keeping score" on the success of my life by using the quantity of money and things that I had accumulated. Something or someone was always toppling the scoreboard or changing the numbers around.

A better scoring method, I found, is "How do I "feel" about me right this moment?"

[clipped]

TAO Bless us all, :>)#
and
Peace and Light to You and Yours,
Kenneth Broom, Columbia, MD, USA
aka I.A.M. Research


Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:09:59 -0700
Subject: Re: Channeling by Jon Klimo

Dear folks:
The book "Channeling" that I referenced recently, is by author "Jon Klimo" and is due for update/re-release in November, 1997. Anyone interested can sign up on www.amazon.com for an e-mail message when it's available. The book is a great review of all types of channeling, and I suspect the new edition will be even better.

Barbara Taylor


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:41:13 -0400
Subject: Artisans in Observation

Dave Gregg wrote:

> Come on, guys. I realize that as old souls the routines of existence
> can become very tedious, and that it's nice to find some validation for
> our feelings via these teachings, but as I read through these "on-the-job"
> stories, the only thing I could think of was, "geez, these guys are
> real knuckle-heads!" ;-p Now I've known many scholars who talk big and perform
> small, and many sages who only need the assistance of a swivel chair to boost
> their ego, but fellows, your description was by far, the most amusing
> example I've ever read. ;-p

> Of course, I'm only messing with ya as part of my role as a (with a
> deep voice)...ARTISAN IN OBSERVATION. ;-p

So, Dave, surely you aren't claiming that Old Artisans in Observation don't have some interesting stories to tell about figuring out the Life Task and work in general. <G>

So, what do you do for a living? Do you love it? <G>

Kate


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:41:59 -0400
Subject: Scholars in Observation

Dave Gregg wrote:

<< > So are you aware of what your life task is, and how all of this
> smaller stuff fits into the big puzzle? This is my BIG issue. I am
> really clueless here. Does anyone have a methodology for ferreting
> this out? If I could figure out what my real purpose was for this
> lifetime, I know everything else would fall into place. >>
>
> I hate to be simplistic here amidst all the tongue wagging of the
> sage/scholar throng, but I think on an essence level, the real purpose
> of life is to just play the game. There's no right or wrong way play to it

I brought that up in one of my posts (a channeling from JP), and you're right, of course. That's certainly true on one particular (cosmic) level. :)

> Now in terms of discovering the specific details of a particular
> existence, I think the best gauge is your own inner feelings.
> Whatever you LOVE to do is the best probable path to take.
> When you do what you love, your essence has a much better
> chance of guiding you down a path that will best fulfill your
> inner most needs.

This sounds simple on the surface, but finding out "what I came here for" can be (maybe) in and of itself a Life Task. <G> We're all faced with the problem that we're imprinted from Day One of any given life to do everything *but* what we "love." And we are trained by our frenetic, attention-always-directed-outward YS culture, never to listen to that "still small voice within" that can tell us what we truly love. I think also, some people are afraid of letting go to what they love for fear they will love it so much they will forget to do their "duty." Maybe, on one level, they are right to fear it--look at all the people (all soul ages, but maybe not as much Baby Souls), who suddenly realize in their middle years that they have spent all their life making everyone else happy, or at least trying to do what was expected, and they never knew who they really are.

Another thought, and this is a very Scholarly, nit-picky sematics question, maybe, but still gets to an (I think anyway <G>) important issue: what the heck is "love"? Are you talking about keen interest? Outright passion? The pull of "duty" can be very strong. For example, my dh had a very strong desire to be a doctor and it was a real wrench to reassess that goal after he, in the middle of his studies, went into his true soul age. It seems what we want with all our "heart" in our YS years can be very different than what we "love" in our MS years, and when we finally (and not everyone does) go into our true soul age of OS (for those who are OS), there again, what we "love" will (often) drastically change.

Another thought on the life task, many seem to view it as a kind of career goal, but maybe it is simply more of an overall focus? A theme? IOW, maybe there is no one thing that we are "meant to" do, but we will naturally set off in pursuit of a series of goals/interests, each one suitable for a different stage of our life but each one contributing to our understanding of a basic theme/task? Maybe the whole problem is judging (and, JP has channeled, as I somewhat mentioned, OS's tend to be very hard on themselves) ourselves as "wrong" or somesuch for doing, actually, the "right" thing, which is to just flow with the natural changes in our consciousness (and therefore our current needs, likes and emphasis in general) which can inevitably lead us to open up to the possibility of going into new lines of work?

> Dave - an artisan in observation

So you are an Artisan-Scholar-in-Observation? Join the crowd. <G>

Kate


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:40:30 -0400
Subject: Scholar topic

Kenneth Broom wrote:

> In part, I do. As a freelance computer geek I have been asked to
> 1) find specific stuff on the internet,
> 2) create a test instrument for a couple of psychologists,
> 3) help folks with Win3.1 to Win95 conversion problems,
> 4) teach computer literacy to an admin assistant
> 5) help computer newbies get over their newbieness
> 6) etc, etc.

Alright, what did I say about Scholars and computers and the internet? It's a natural. <G>

> all of which I get good hourly money for.

I can imagine. Computer work of that sort is very well paid. :)

> In addition to the above I also do
> 7) astrology readings (which include overleaves)
> 8) sell astrology reports
> 9) spiritual counseling (which may include almost any mode)
> 10) healing assistance for those who ask for it (usually freebies)
> 11) etc, etc.

Those things are fun, too, though not as much steady money. <G>

> I find that as I "consciously" define the way I prefer my life to be,
> my life becomes what I prefer it to be. This, regardless of any money
> involved. TAO/Essence makes the choice of doing directly or via money.
> I never no which until it happens.

I agree with this. I could always see this in relation to *me*, but it became an interesting wrinkle dealing with the karma of my emotionally disabled son. That is now working out in the way I had to envision it, too. :)

> Instead of having to put up the money for a car (+insurance), I
> declared that I always have a good car available to me. Now, I have three
> friends.
> Instead of having to dig up the money to live in a beautiful and
> "quiet" home, six years ago I saw in a dream/vision the very same place where
> I am presently living. It is a beautiful, quiet, spacious two-bedroom.
>
> In other ways life/universe supplies me with everything I "declare"
> for. I have learned to not just "ask" or "supplicate" for what I desire,
> but to "strongly and powerfully" declare and "feel gratitude" that I
> "already have" whatever it is I prefer. This is one doozy of an
> attitude to get into, especially after having been raised as an
> episcopalian alter boy and alcolyte.

Yes, this is great. I totally agree with you on this. Thanks so much for showing how in a very concrete way this works! :)

> So, Kate, I don't just "make a living" at being a scholar in
> observation; I have (and do) consciously define "being my living" to
> be the way I prefer it to be. In the above manner I have dictated to life
> the way I prefer my "living" to be, and life/essence assists me
> immensely in "making a living" for me. One must participate with life
> in one's own living by strongly defining one's preferences. (I don't know
> where all those one's came from, but I just went along with the
> program here.)

This is great stuff, Kenneth. Thanks. :)

> !!!!!!! Flat out and "very" strongly !!!!!!!
>
> This also scares a lot of people who cannot conceive of addressing
> "TAO", "Higher Self" or "Supreme Being" in this most commanding and
> forthright manner. This manner is exactly what got me off the streets
> and roads of the big island of Hawaii, after a 3-month experience of
> being homeless. Talking about a shot of upright humility!

I was homeless, too, for a few months in my late 20s. Actually, it was a neat experience, rather like you, was homeless in paradise, mine being a camping site in a gorgeous redwood forest in Santa Cruz. <G> Since I was a college student, I could use the college facilities for showers and what not, it was no real penance. <G>

> Sometimes, when the karma is getting too heavy, I just call a recess
> or a time out, and the shit stops immediately. At least long enough for
> me to catch my breath and get my feet under myself, and then it restarts
> again right where it left off. Other times I have "Graced myself", by
> telling essence "OK, bottomline it for me." I then found out about
> stuff I was unknowingly taking for granted that really was/is not true.

Yes, I experience this, too. It is interesting how there can be blocks inside to using this tool. That somehow we aren't meant to "remember" to do this until enough of the karma has "run its course."

> > Then I stay open to any and all inspirations that come to me as
> > to concrete actions I need
>
> Saying open, Amen. It always works. It cannot not work.I have also
> defined myself as being "Harmless" in the sense of not "ever" having
> an adverse effect on "anyone" regardless of my decisions, actions, or
> non-actions. This allows for the effective, harmonious, and peaceful
> resolution of all situations being addressed.

Now, this is a good reminder. I'm going to have to use this one more concretely. I've used "with harm to none" religiously in making requests, but doing an overall statement like this is great. :)

> I clearly remember my OS money terrors, even when I was making good
> money and had everything I wanted. It was very difficult for me to stop
> "keeping score" on the success of my life by using the quantity of money
>
> A better scoring method, I found, is "How do I "feel" about me right
> this moment?"

That makes great sense. I've used an approach much like that. :)

Kate


Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:02:26 -0400
Subject: Re: YOU KNOW YOU'RE A SCHOLAR WHEN....

Dave Gregg wrote:

> Here's some old one liners that are just perfect for....
>
> YOU KNOW YOU'RE A SCHOLAR WHEN....
>
> Dave - Artisan &.....uh, (sheepish grin)...Scholar...(running out of
> the room to avoid flying projectiles) ;-p

Ah, ha, so it takes one to know one, right? <G>

Hmm. Interesting reminder about Scholars and talking. If you ask them a question, it's like punching a button with no "off" sometimes, all this encyclopedic rush of info pours out. "Give it to me in 25 words or less" should be the precursor to asking a Scholar a questions. <G>

Kate, zapped for too much talking on three counts--Scholar, Sage and Priest <G>


Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:25:46 +0000
Subject: Re: Scholars in Observation

> I hate to be simplistic here amidst all the tongue wagging of the
> sage/scholar throng, but I think on an essence level, the real purpose of
> life is to just play the game.

Sagey Kate agrees per a recent post.

> There's no right or wrong way play to it, it's
> simply a matter of making choices. These choices than provide the most
> important element of the match -- that of experience. From lifetime to
> lifetime, we come here to experience life from as many viewpoints as
> possible. Yes, the pursuit of happiness, monetary success and leggy super
> models are added details, but in the overall schematic, experience is, in my
> non-sage/scholar opinion, the reason we are here.

Oh, I agree. Experience is the game. But we also make off-site agreements, so to speak, between lives. I just have this burning feeling that I am not fulfilling a committment that I am not conscious of at this time.

> Now in terms of discovering the specific details of a particular existence, I
> think the best gauge is your own inner feelings. Whatever you LOVE to do is
> the best probable path to take. When you do what you love, your essence has a
> much better chance of guiding you down a path that will best fulfill your
> inner most needs.

I feel what I am looking for is bigger than that. I feel the things I love to do are more like my tools to fulfill this bigger task. What I am beginning to get though, through Kate's sagey advice, is that this is not going to happen until my current obligations to the children are fulfilled. The anxiousness I am experiencing is probably just buildup to what is coming.

John


Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:25:45 +0000
Subject: Re: Scholars in Observation

> Four methodology questions or thoughts for food:
> ------------------------------------------------
> 1) What is it you find yourself coming back to, time and time again,
> whether in thought, word, or deed?
>
> 2) If money were no object, what would you most like to do, even if you
> never got recognized for it?
>
> 3) What is it you like "most" about the world? What can you do to help
> promote that one thing? What next most?
>
> 4) What is it you like "least" about the world? What can you do to help
> change that one thing? What next least?
>
> FWIW: For me these four questions all led to the same answer. I love
> research and I love making knowledge available. I am a library. My
> greatest pleasure right now is learning and sharing and learning via the
> World Wide Web, "especially" via these SpiritWeb Lists. Such fantastic
> questions are brought up. In a few months I'll start working again on my
> website.

When I am not so fatigued over the next couple of days I will spend some quality energy on these. I feel these will get me closer. Something that really struck me hear recently was a post by Barbara Taylor in which she stated her task was something akin to "helping young souls by bringing spiritually oriented information to them in a format they are open to and will accept." Well, that's not exactly what was stated, but the point is that she basically has a mission statement for the focus of her life. Writing, for instance, is a tool, not a mission. I am not out to save the planet, or anything, but as big an issue this is for me, I know I am not doing something I am supposed to be doing. Maybe it's just an anticipation of something that's coming...

> There is quiet in the spaces between the words in the internal dialogue.
> Have you tried looking/focusing there? What is focused on... grows.

Yes, I have been there. I need to learn to focus on it again.

> My entity folks, when any of us still in human form have a major
> challenge in our lives, have two sayings:
> 1) If you don't like your reality then change it.
> 2) How do you change it: Use your imagination and give energy to the image.

Changing the reality after I have made the decision is not a problem, it's making the decision that is so difficult.

> I hope this helps you, John. I really feel related to you. What kind of
> stuff do you, or would you, like to write about. I too am open to
> continuing this thread off-list if you prefer.

It does help. Thank you, Ken. Sometimes I just need someone to remind me to change my focus. The writing specific stuff is what I was talking about taking offline. OS Scholar in Observation discussions are obviously appropriate for the group, but a discussion about the writing process, IMHO, shouldn't be cluttering everyone's mailbox.

John


Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:25:46 +0000
Subject: Re: Scholars in Observation & Life Task

> As for myself, I have nine more years to go before my emotinally disabled
> son is an adult and I am no longer legally responsible for him. Like you,
> counting off the nine years to your retirement, I have for a very long time
> now been counting off the years until my parental burden was lifted.

OHMYGODYES! Counting the days till they fly away from the nest. That's another thing that really pisses off my ww (warrior wife).

> Then it got to the point in the recent past where the burden was just more
> than I could bear. When I made my plea (described above) to the universe, my eyes
> were opened up to some new insights that never occurred to me before,

I have done exactly this same thing on several occassions. My problem is I wait until the last possible moment before I jump off the 900 foot cliff to the jagged rocks below.

> In your case, by trying to live with a family of five, support your
> wife's home-based business (which involves excruciating socializing),
> working at a job you hate, and never having any privacy, you are trying
> to "measure up" to an impossible standard, forcing yourself to engage in
> an incredibly stressful, complex lifestyle that you simply don't have
> the overleaves to accomplish without leading yourself to: (a) a nervous
> breakdown, which is a dramatic (and passive-resistance) way to call
> attention to the fact that, "Hey, I'm dying over here trying to live
> three impossibly demanding lives at the same time (husband and father,
> spouse's work assistant, military job)," or (b) you wake up (ding! a
> light goes on <G> ) and realize you *have* to sit down with your wife and
> step-children and re-negotiate your karmic contracts.

What is really interesting is my wife is working towards (a) a nervous breakdown. She is bigtime doing the melodramatic thing, and in addition to all of the above I am supposed to take care of her too. There are a number of things contributing to this, but she refuses to slow down and quit trying to save the world. Oh, jeez, let's not take this one any further for the moment. I'm not ready for that thread yet. : p

> of course I fantasized that my dh would adore my children and give > them all the love and support (emotional and financial) that their > father couldn't (another overwhelmed Scholar).

Complete with picket fence, right?

> But living out my Perfect Family Fantasy was so unrealistic, how could he
> without destroying himself? I love him too much to ask that of him. So
> the upshot was that we had to be very creative about negotiating custody
> and living arrangements so that the kids could get their needs met
> without destroying my dh, my health breaking down mediating between
> everyone, or our marriage being destroyed from too much pressure. It has
> taken constant, *daily* clear, honest, open communication of wants,
> needs and emotions--no matter how "unworthy" those emotions may be--to
> pull this off.

Funny, even with the difference in overleaves, this sounds very similar.

> IMO, it is particularly important in step-families to get the inevitable
> resentment (on *everyone's* part, kids, step-parent, natural parent) out
> in the open and deal with it at once, to not let anything accumulate. As
> John Bradshaw says, people tend to "gunny sack injustices until they
> have accumulated enough for one guilt-free explosion of righteous rage."
> Such explosions accomplish nothing but increasing resentment and tearing
> the fragile step family apart.

Oh, yeah. We're still scraping those explosions off the walls.

> Kate, Saging and Priesting you to death again, darn it, you keep
> bringing up issues incredibly close to my heart <G>

More to come, dear. I ain't dead yet.

John


Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:57:44 -0700
Subject: more on parallel universes

Hi everyone,

Hearing the parallel universe ideas discussed, some of it just sounds like probable futures which makes sense to me up until the point where they are all lived out somewhere. Upon thinking that, I came on some clarification which helps me at least to understand how all of this may be.

Classically there have always been debates and attempts to understand how man can have free will while sometimes people have clear visions or senses of things to come.

I think this is possible because time is only linear at a particular plane (what we normally think of as our 3 dimensional earth existance) and as we touch into (becoming aware of what always is) the nature of other planes where time is simultaneous, we can indeed sense potential and probable futures.

But it is also truly the future. There may be a high probability of it happening, because while we have free choice and free will, more than we might want to admit, we have tendencies to run more on auto-pilot, on habits and the core essences of old habits, which are part of the basis for what we call karma. That's why, with greater awareness, one "wakes up" to a greater range of choice and steps out of the pull of old habits and having to be locked into the circles and cycles of karma.

At any time, one can use choice to make different choices than those that might carry a high probability in one's nature. And then the future is changed. In a sense, since all time is _now_ at higher levels, (really feel what that means, feel the way it ripples out from any now moment) -- the other probability _was_ lived out, just not in the way we are thinking of it. Does anyone else feel the subtle difference there?

I think this may be at the heart of why some of us sense there's something off in the current discussion of parallel lives, and also why there _is_ in a sense something of the sort-- just not in the way it is currently often being discussed. But it makes all the difference, at least for me.

I'm not sure it's a clear or easy distinction to make, which is why I sense some of the discussion of parallels has gotten off track. It has to do with the nature of our understanding of some of the concepts, here, with the rules in this world vs. what the words mean outside of the duality, linear nature of our plane. Food for thought.

Best to everyone,
Brin


Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:38:59 +0000
Subject: Re: Scholars in Observation

> > Ditto for my current, but she is a warrior, so she just gets pissed.
>
> LOL. Is she an OS Warrior? What are her overleaves?

Haven't done complete overleaves yet, but the warrior is obvious. Then again, I have strong warrior bleedthrough, so it's workable. I did get her to do Meyers-Briggs, and we were a close match there -- the only difference being introvert/extrovert. I am INTJ and she is ENTJ.

John


Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:38:59 +0000
Subject: Re: Scholars in Observation (make Artisans beg for mercy)

> Come on, guys. I realize that as old souls the routines of existence can
> become very tedious, and that it's nice to find some validation for our
> feelings via these teachings, but as I read through these "on-the-job"
> stories, the only thing I could think of was, "geez, these guys are real
> pricks!" ;-p Now I've known many scholars who talk big and perform small,
> and many sages who only need the assistance of a swivel chair to boost their
> ego, but fellows, your description was by far, the most amusing example I've
> ever read. ;-p
>
> Of course, I'm only messing with ya as part of my role as a (with a deep
> voice)...ARTISAN IN OBSERVATION. ;-p

Well, as an OS Scholar, I am giving up the swivel chair for levitation.

John


Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 02:43:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Artisans in Observation

In a message dated 97-09-25 00:44:05 EDT, kmcmurry@inetnow.net (Kate McMurry) writes:

<< So, Dave, surely you aren't claiming that Old Artisans in Observation
don't have some interesting stories to tell about figuring out the Life
Task and work in general. <G>

So, what do you do for a living? Do you love it? <G>

Kate >>

I'm a professional musician. I play the clarinet, sax, and flute. I've also done a fair deal of teaching in the recent past. For awhile, I had 55 private students each week. I'm a fairly versatile musician. I'm naturally skilled at jazz improvisation on the sax, yet I'm equally comfortable at filling the chair as a clarinetist in an orchestra. I truly love performing and studying music, and feel it's the best path for me in achieving direct contact with essence.

Michael has told me through various channelers that music has always been a strong focus in my previous past lives. In my most recent past incarnation I was told that I was a clarinetist with the Moscow symphony, and there have been other lives where I did good work as a teacher of music. Oddly enough, I feel that my essence is tiring of the music game and wants me to move in other directions. I'm not certain what that path might be, but the nudge I feel is that its a branching off to other areas of creative expression. We'll see....

Dave


Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:19:39 -0400
Subject: Old Scholars and Life Paths

Dear John Rogers et. al.

Below you will find the email message from an entity/fragment we (Ted Fontaine and I) call "Yesu". The message deals with a problem/challenge that I have been dealing with since I arrived in Maryland 4 years ago. I do feel, and deeply comprehend, the truth of Yesu's response to my situation. I also feel very fulfilled in participating in the Michael Teachings List. But a very strong part of my being wants to express/publish my Old Scholar Idealist Observations "right now". I also "get" very strongly and clearly that it would be "Good Work" for me to "wait" for questions to be asked before publishing any answers. I know also that my "Chief Feature of Impatience" is chomping at the bit.

Has anyone else had a similar situation? I'd be very interested in the responses and comments from my beloved "Michael Teachings" sisters and brothers.

----- SOM

Subject: Re: Dear Yesu #4
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 97 20:54:12 -0400
From: ted fontaine
To: Kenneth Broom


per Kenneth Broom:
------------------
> I feel a very strong desire to contribute to earth-life knowledge by
> publishing all of my conscious knowledge and I.A.M. Research results on
> the Internet's World Wide Web in the most spiritually and mentally
> attractive formats possible. You can access my being to understand these
> projects I am referring to. Yet I feel externally and internally
> thwarted in this by an energy that says very little, but continues to
> mitigate against my accomplishing this large task. There always seems to
> be something distracting or frustrating me from doing this, and I have
> made very little progress with these/my "Awareness Projects". Yet I
> still continue to grow rapidly in accumulated knowledge and wisdom.
>
> What is your view of my Awareness Projects? Do they have value at this
> time for me and the earth population? What is the source and reason for
> the distractions, frustrations, and procrastinations? How can I get
> these projects really rolling? What is the best thing I can do at this
> time regarding my awareness projects?
>
> My immediate "feeling" is to pick one and get on with it, but they are
> all so interrelated that I feel very uncomfortable about picking one
> without all the others that are connected to the picked one. What am I
> missing here? How can I get what's missing? Helllllpp! :-)

per Yesu:
---------
We will say here that spirit when it is about to be revealed will resist
all attempts to regulate it. We can say more - and we will - but this
statement alone is enough to answer your question. So we ask you to look
at the statment for a while. You could even put this email away and play
with the statement.

per Kenneth:
------------
I did do this.


per Yesu:
---------
Now, we will say here to let the earth's population take care of itself.
They are all of the same one. Let them make their mistakes. Errors are
powerful learning tools as well. If humanity new its Truth then they
would simply dissolve back into the ONe. We will say that creation
requires a degree of ignorance about itself. Therefore with the
ignorance there allows for an unknown outcome. We call this Divine
Ignorance.

Don't think of your projects as having any significance other than your
enjoyment in doing them. They are of you and they need no justifications.
The less justification you give them the easier they will flow. If they
change course allow them to. Ask yourself how you can serve your project.
Say, "how can I serve you?", allow it the freedom to do what it wants
to. It will explore a bit - let it. It will test itself - let it. It does not care if if
reaches one or a million people - allow it to be what it wants to be. If it sells
it will sell - if it dies then it has given you what you asked for - then thank it and let it be.

Blessings to you -- Yesu

----- EOM

Peace and Light to You and Yours,
Kenneth Broom, Columbia, MD, USA
aka I.A.M. Research


Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 00:19:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Ed: Advice for John

Dear John -- I offer you unsolicited advice here.

You seem to be (like practically everyone it seems) becoming more and more aware of all the disharmonies in your situation...an intense awareness.

Just remember that your essence, guides, All That Is, et al, are eagerly waiting to be of service IF YOU ASK. If you don't know specifically what to ask for, ask for a synchronous contact with some person or book or whatever that will give you the message you most need to hear. Often it takes a couple of days for them to orchestrate a synchronous connection with other people. You might receive some direct message as a vision, dream or realization.

Keep doing it. This is a very good way to connect with important soul buddies you haven't before; with these it may take two or three jumps of synchronicity for the guys upstairs to pull the strings to get you together.

You might ask for something like who, in your local geographical area, could you connect with [or you and wife both connect with, or whatever is the most optimum possible such connection] that would be someone you could share with as a fellow old soul, or old souls, for mutual benefit. If you can get together periodicaly with a few people and share you'll all find it very empowering.

All this might be common sense bromide, but it works if you want it to.

All the best, Ed


Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 06:45:49 +0000
Subject: Re: Scholars in Observation

> Only if she were your ET, as you suspect (and which I am getting is in fact
> the case, btw) could you have been kept from running in horror from
> taking on such an incredibly overloading job! <G>

Well, I did feel that when we first met. A long story that I won't go into in detail, but the circumstances involved in us even meeting were incredible. I was 26 years old, a confirmed bachelor, and even if I did someday marry, it would never be to anyone who smoked or had children. We were living together three months later, and married in another five. The electricity was staggering when we met.

Go back and check that reading again, and my response if you have it. Michael indicated that I had not met my essence twin yet, and it would not be good work to summon at this time. My response was that my ET's overleaves described my wife. It might be interesting if you asked again and see what you get.

> The warrior bleedthrough that led you to select the military in the
> first place is even more strengthened now that you are married to your
> ET. Speaking as one who was also married to my ET, since being with him,
> a Scholar, I have become more Scholar than Sage. <G>

The warrior bleedthrough has always been evident, but became much stronger when I moved geographically closer to my ET, even though I hadn't met her.

> OS Warrior friend of mine who is Artisan bleedthrough reminded me of
> this recently, to deny the most essential part of you, your primary
> overleaf, your Role, is to deny yourself any true peace or contentment.
> It can also cause you to feel victimized by fate leading to a, to
> varying degrees, conscious or unconscious resentment of the very
> persons/obligations on whose behalf you have denied who you really are.
> Sadly, this can many times drive a wedge in your relationship with your
> spouse and the rest of the family members to whom you feel obligated.

Bingo. That has been happening for several years, and I am struggling with how to resolve it now.

> (BTW, not understanding who I was, what I needed, and always doing what
> was "right," that is, totally living for the fulfillment of my mates' < clip>
> like you have found your ET after the age of 30, you have far more
> chance of resolving your issues since both of you, being older and wiser
> (and more likely to be manifesting your true soul age) are likely to be
> much more conscious about who you are than my ET and I were in our 20s.)

We are both aware of the problem, and are just now beginning the first steps to resolution.

> I think, as JP channeled recently, that what eludes OS's many times
> (and makes them suffer needlessly a lot of shame and self-doubt) is
> that the whole point of being here is simply to *play* the karma game,
> to just keep moving.

I really feel I am either not doing something that I am supposed to be doing, or whatever I am supposed to be doing is right around the corner waiting for me. This is very strong.

> Our job isn't to "look good," to never make mistakes,
> to be "enlightened" and full of grace. It isn't to save the world.

These aren't an issue for me. Period. Purpose is what concerns me.

> In this regard, I've found that my "dharma" as an OS,

I like the term "dharma". That is exactly what I am talking about.

> In your case (looking at your overleaves), you have a definite conflict
> of interest, as I say, between your Warrior and Scholar. And then
> there's your Sage Casting and Sage imprint from your father, Sage being
> frequently diametrically opposed to what the Scholar needs (the
> extrovert dragging the horrified introvert onto the stage <G>). Then
> there's your strong Server imprint from your mother. The Server can get
> the poor, beleagured Scholar up to his eyebrows in social (people! aaak!
> <G>) obligations. The Scholar valiantly tries to fulfill them but gets
> so darn overloaded in the process, he feels like he is drowning.

I have learned to use the Sage, and would probably benefit from allowing it to surface more often. The Server has been a problem in the past, and has created some resentment for me. It's something I am working through now.

> Also, because you are living with your ET, you are in many ways living
> out a double set of overleaves (I have the same going for me), which is
> real "fun" for the Growth thing, because it immensely complicates life
> <wry grin>

Yep, just like an amusement park. Only someone accidently put the Fun House sign on the House of Horrors!

> but can make the task of sorting out, "Who am I, really, and
> what do I most want to do?" next to impossible. Who you are, really, is
> a lot of things, a lot of "people." And there may never be any one
> "purpose," any one life work (job or career or calling) that will
> satisfy all of you.
>
> That can be a real problem for you as a member of our culture. We are
> all programmed to want (though the manifestation of this desire in
> action has a different "flavor" depending on the soul age) and, please
> God, to *get* <G> the "ideal" (utterly romanticized and essentially
> non-existent except in Madison-Avenue fantasy) in all aspects of life.

No, I have always known I am in Growth, and am destined to work my ass off. I am not striving for perfection. I just want purposeful work. And it has nothing to do with pleasing God. It has to do with my selfish desire for fulfillment.

> In this regard, with your Warrior overleaf, you will be naturally a very
> hard worker, and as such, Warriors have a tendency to assume that all
> good fortune is because "I worked hard for my money."

You hit that one right on the head.

> (I once said to a holier-than-thou YS Warrior on her high horse about
> this entitlement, "If hard work were the way to prosperity and riches,
> every peon on the planet putting in 18-hour days, seven days a week
> would be rich as a king." <G>)

Well, I haven't gone to that extreme.

> This tendency to feel dis-ease is in you reinforced by strong
> perfectionistic tendencies coming from several areas in your overleaves.
> You aren't in Discrimination, which can get *really* bad about
> perfectionism (pickiness), but you are a Cynic. This overleaf will, to
> quote the Basic Teachings, "in the negative pole, denigrate others and
> situations without cause." The Cynic is also introverted, adding to the
> introversion of the Scholar and Observation.

Yes, I do have perfectionist tendencies. My work must be perfect, and I often have unrealistic expectations of others.

> On introversion, <clip> This weights you heavily toward the
> introversion end of the spectrum.

Way, way introversion. But I have learned to live outside that extreme.

> OTOH, looking at your ET/dh's overleaves, we have exalted in Casting,
> goal, and mode with the Role in ordinal and the attitude and CNF
> neutral. This means the pull is the reverse of yours, toward
> extroversion.

Yep. Meyers-Briggs even confirms this as our chief difference.

> The upshot is that you and your mate/ET might act to balance each other,

Ideally, yes. We realized this from the start.

> or, to the degree that you don't know yourselves, merge into an amalgam
> that may not necessarily be a new "whole that is better than the sum of
> its parts."

Which is kinda where we are now.

> Just to make the marriage monad more interesting, the
> tendency is weighted toward you "giving in" (introversion can flow into
> "passivity," going along to get along) to your partner more than this is
> likely from your wife. Warriors, by gum, know what is "right" at any
> given moment and can often be remarkably free of self-doubts when in
> forward motion. <G> The trouble is, when one mate exists only (or even
> primarily) to support and uphold the goals of the other, and is not by
> Role a Server (who absolutely, bone-deep revels in this sort of
> situation <G>), this can be a prescription for misery. Esp. for a
> Scholar, who is, as I say, utterly drained by the sorts of goals set for
> her self by a Warrior with a home-business and a family.

Yep, yep, yep. You have described the current situation perfectly.

> Where is your haven? Where is your sanctum? Where, in short, can you
> get some peace, quiet and privacy (all of which are *essential* for the
> survival of the Scholar).

At the moment it is non-existent, which is causing a major malfunction.

> To put it even more bluntly, according to what you've described, your
> wife has exactly what she needs (for the most part--she gets, as you say
> "pissed" with you, I would hazard an educated guess, mainly because you
> don't naturally and happily "get with the program" of supporting all the
> time family life, that you give "grudingly" rather than with a smile on
> your face). You, OTOH, are *not* having your most basic needs met, other
> than the indescribable spiritual delight of the incredibly flowing,
> innate, nothing-need-be-done-about-it connection of being with one's ET.
> (There is, of course, a *lot* to be said for that connection, and most
> of us, including me, would eat nails to keep it going. <wry grin> ) But
> though in an ET mating on a certain level (the soul-deep connection of
> one's "other half") there is *no* work to be done, on another level
> there is a *lot* of work to be done--if you want the relationship (you
> are in Growth, never forget that one) to survive. That level is, as I
> mentioned briefly above, the tendency for the relationship to teeter out
> of balance, because one (in this case, you), is drawn to give in
> totally to the other, to become a shadow in the other's sun.
>
> Well, I go on and on. Your reading is fascinating. <G>

Whew, lots to chew on. Thank you, Kate. Hope you have some words left for your book.

> You're a writer? Great! It could be a very good career choice for you in
> terms of fulfilling all parts of you. However, the reality is, as you
> say, you need, right this minute, to support a large family. Trying to
> get into writing at this juncture would depend on how much you had
> written in the past, when and why you gave it up and what it would take
> for you to pick it up again.

The plan for the moment is for me to trudge through another nine years in the military which will secure a monthly retirement check and medical coverage. Also to continue assisting my wife in the horse thing, so that by the time that nine years is up there is also an additional significant source of income. In three or four years, after the oldest two kids have moved on, and the third is in transition, I should have enough time to pursue this in earnest as a part-time endeavor. At the end of the nine years, all of the kids will be gone, and I should be able to spend as much time writing (or whatever) as I need. I gave up reading and writing when I took on the family.

> Are you the kind of person who can use writing to de-stress yourself or
> does it become one more source of stress (due to worrying incessantly
> about "getting it right")? You sound very organized, and that can be useful
> in the attempt to "steal" time to write.

Writing always energized me. And I have actually found ways to steal time at work, which is actually easier than stealing time from home. I started brainstorming an idea for a novel last week, and will probably use my stolen time to continue that. At least create a framework if I am not able to actually start writing for the time being.

> Why isn't it appropriate? We are talking in Michael terms and taking the
> teachings, which to "newbies" and old timers alike may seem quite
> fascinating but not really "of this earth" and and bringing it down to
> the ground, showing what it means in action, putting the overleaves and
> their interpretation into very concrete, real-world terms. Why would
> that be inappropriate for a Michael list? <scratching head> As has been
> brought up befire, if people aren't interested in a particular thread,
> they can delete the posts pertaining to it and go on to other treads, or
> start threads that they what to hear talked about. :)

As I stated in another post, I feel the OS Scholar in Observation is very appropriate. I was talking about you mentoring writers as an inappropriate topic. But, of course the context of the thread would determine that.

John


Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 07:45:04 +0000
Subject: Re: Ed: Advice for John

> Dear John -- I offer you unsolicited advice here.

Thanks, if I wasn't open to it, I wouldn't be participation in a public forum.

> You seem to be (like practically everyone it seems) becoming more and more
> aware of all the disharmonies in your situation...an intense awareness.
>
> Just remember that your essence, guides, All That Is, et al, are eagerly
> waiting to be of service IF YOU ASK. If you don't know specifically what to
> ask for, ask for a synchronous contact with some person or book or whatever
> that will give you the message you most need to hear. Often it takes a
> couple of days for them to orchestrate a synchronous connection with other
> people. You might receive some direct message as a vision, dream or
> realization.

Yes, thank you for reminding me. I have been sleeping for about the last five years, and am slowly waking back up to these simple facts and tools. I became overwhelmed by a drastic lifestyle change, curled up into the fetal position, and completely forgot about who I was and what I was capable of. Recovery is picking up momentum.

A simple example of this process, for those who may not have used it follows. Six months or so after leaving the Army, while working as a commercial fisherman, I began exploring geographic areas that might be nice to live in. There was one particular tiny town near Mt Rainier that caught my attention, and I asked for a "runner" (Ramtha term) to bring me information. Two days later the skipper of the boat brought a guest along with him that he had met the night before at his favorite watering hole. The guest was from a town within 20 miles of the town I was looking for information on. He gave me the name and phone number of a park ranger that lived in my town.

I never did move there, but hindsight being 20/20 it is probably a good thing. When Mt Rainier blows its top that town will be one of the first to go.

Thanks again, Ed. What you say is true. I think my growth in this situation is supposed to be the realization that I don't have to be overwhelmed, and things are much simpler than I try to make them.

John


Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 07:45:03 +0000
Subject: Re: Old Scholars and Life Paths

I have heard this message before, Ken, from different entities in different words. Thank you for reminding me of them.

John

> Don't think of your projects as having any significance other than your
> enjoyment in doing them. They are of you and they need no
> justifications.
> The less justification you give them the easier they will flow. If they
> change course allow them to. Ask yourself how you can serve your
> project.
> Say, "how can I serve you?", allow it the freedom to do what it wants to.
> It will explore a bit - let it. It will test itself - let it. It does not
> care if if reaches one or a million people - allow it to be what it
> wants to be. If it sells it will sell - if it dies then it has given you what
> you asked for - then thank it and let it be.
>
> Blessings to you -- Yesu


Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 15:37:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Ed: Advice for John 2

Dear John -- Good, and of course, stay with it.

I was living up in Ramtha-land most of this summer. I have some friends there who are or have been involved (I never have been interested) and I visited there several times since 1992 and completely enjoyed every minute. The "masters" are a very older-soul interesting group and there are probably a couple of thousand living around Rainier/Yelm/McKenna. Each time I visited I met several new interesting people and synchronous connections.

Intellectually I had to deal with all the conspiracy theory stuff that they are into (and that is the world capitol of that viewpoint) and just like the Ramsters do, you eventually find a way to live with the conspiracy stuff and go on with life. It seems to be true, and I've seen quite a few specific examples, that people who really focus on the dark stuff really get messed up, if they aren't already "crazy".

Because there is still somewhat of a cultish flavor in the area even among the ex-followers I never felt quite right with it. If you have any specific questions about places or people I might be able to answer them. I certainly wouldn't worry about Rainier if you're otherwise attracted to the area; there's no reason why the mountain should do anything anytime terribly soon, if it does there is warning, and if it does a lot, the east side is more likely to be affected. The earth-changes scaremongers make a big deal of Mt. Rainier but it could easily go 50 or 100 years before anything happens.

Now for further unsolicited advice.....I sense you having a feeling of imprisonment from the idea of having to stay in the military for 9 years for the "should" of medical benefits and pensions, etc., which abrades with the increasing "quickening" that makes it more like 900 years of change. All I ask, with no suggested answer or implication, is why do you believe you have to put up with that? Old souls are very good at knowing what they do and don't prefer to experience and you sense that well. You are thoroughly competent and the universe/guides/essences, etc., would love to help orchestrate a better situation if you ask for it. If the only problem is that you are burdened with the social fear-based reality imprints about retirement, starving to death and medical financial catastrophes and other good stuff like that, I can engage you with withering barrages of deadly arguments from my realist perspective (though that wouldn't be much fun) that might help to dissipate the fear-based imprint. For one, I'll promise you that within a few years the boomers will pass some kind of health insurance system that will cover all the things everyone is worried about. Fear of medical financial catastrophe wiping out family resources affects conservatives, too, and something will happen. Our system does work when a large enough consensus forms on some course of action.

Therefore...ask yourself lots of questions: Why do I believe that? What would happen if I did, or didn't do that? What am I afraid of about XYZ? Do I choose or choose not to go along with "should" ABC? By what reasoning am I limiting myself as to thus and so, and is it reason or fear? And so on. Asking questions is VERY powerful.

All the best, Ed


Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:27:42 +0000
Subject: Re: Ed: Advice for John 2

> I was living up in Ramtha-land most of this summer.
<snip>
> Intellectually I had to deal with all the conspiracy theory stuff that they
> are into (and that is the world capitol of that viewpoint) and just like the
> Ramsters do, you eventually find a way to live with the conspiracy stuff and
> go on with life. It seems to be true, and I've seen quite a few specific
> examples, that people who really focus on the dark stuff really get messed
> up, if they aren't already "crazy".

One of the main reasons I left the Ramtha school was this stuff (the other being Ramtha himself saying, "You don't need me. You can go do this stuff on your own." They are really big into the conspiracy stuff, earth changes, collapse of the economy, etc. I think 1994 was the year Ramtha said the economy would collapse, and those who had not attained "sovereignty" would in effect become slaves to the rich and powerful. This stuff really turned me off. The core teachings though -- moving energy, manifesting, conquering doubt, etc. are great.

> I certainly wouldn't worry about Rainier if you're otherwise attracted to the area;
> there's no reason why the mountain should do anything anytime terribly soon,
> if it does there is warning, and if it does a lot, the east side is more
> likely to be affected. The earth-changes scaremongers make a big deal of Mt.
> Rainier but it could easily go 50 or 100 years before anything happens.

Yes, it could. But Rainier has always been the one earth change thing that bothered me. I'm going with my gut on this one, and simply avoiding the area. And sure, there will be warnings, but why put myself in that situation in the first place?

> Now for further unsolicited advice.....I sense you having a feeling of
> imprisonment from the idea of having to stay in the military for 9 years for
> the "should" of medical benefits and pensions, etc., which abrades with the
> increasing "quickening" that makes it more like 900 years of change.

Yes, there is a feeling of imprisonment there. There is also an agreement I have made with my wife to stick it out. Now that I find myself re-awakening though, I will be opening myself to other avenues, and of course, then the agreement could be re-negotiated. Please clarify "quickening". From where are you using this term? Wilde?

> All I ask, with no suggested answer or implication, is why do you believe you have
> to put up with that? Old souls are very good at knowing what they do and
> don't prefer to experience and you sense that well. You are thoroughly
> competent and the universe/guides/essences, etc., would love to help
> orchestrate a better situation if you ask for it. If the only problem is
> that you are burdened with the social fear-based reality imprints about
> retirement, starving to death and medical financial catastrophes and other
> good stuff like that, I can engage you with withering barrages of deadly
> arguments from my realist perspective (though that wouldn't be much fun) that
> might help to dissipate the fear-based imprint. For one, I'll promise you
> that within a few years the boomers will pass some kind of health insurance
> system that will cover all the things everyone is worried about. Fear of
> medical financial catastrophe wiping out family resources affects
> conservatives, too, and something will happen. Our system does work when a
> large enough consensus forms on some course of action.

Agreed. I don't fear the collapse of Social Security either. It will either be changed or replaced. And it's not my fear of lack of security that has me in this situation. It is my wife's. I bought into that initially on solely an intellectual level, though inwardly I knew better. I believe I am moving to the point where I may manifest something better.

> Therefore...ask yourself lots of questions: Why do I believe that? What would
> happen if I did, or didn't do that? What am I afraid of about XYZ? Do I
> choose or choose not to go along with "should" ABC? By what reasoning am I
> limiting myself as to thus and so, and is it reason or fear? And so on.
> Asking questions is VERY powerful.
> Thank you, Ed. Your advise is quite sound, and I know you are right.

I have been working on this stuff over the past couple of days and am already experiencing the change. It feels good.

An interesting side note:

The other morning I dropped an applicant off at the Military Entrance Processing Station in Seattle for a physical. This process requires me to leave home at 3 a.m. So by the time I drop off my applicant at 6 I am kinda woozy and drive down to the waterfront and nap in the car for an hour or so. After sleeping for a bit I found myself in that half sleeping/half waking state, and was just kinda floating there. An entity outside of me (I did not initiate this) drew a semi-circle of golden light from my front to back and left to right. Then it initiated a charge that moved up my spine, energizing each chakra as it progressed. It was very strange. I have initiated similar experiences many times on my own, but have never had this done by an outside source. There is obviously someone out there helping me.

John


Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 23:02:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Meditation

After reading about the concerns some scholars have noted regarding meditation, I offer this from my own experience.

I realize there are several schools of thought on the subject. Many say you close your eyes and become empty, or something to that effect. The fact is, our minds are always going on in the background, wondering how long am I going to sit here and wait for the warm fuzzy feeling to take over, what was I going to do this evening, did I remember to return that library book....you get the picture.

What works for me are the meditations I get from the 3HO organization (happy, healthy and holy). These meditations were first taught in 1969 by a master of Kundalini yoga named Yogi Bhajan. He came to the West from India to give us tools we would need in order to be strong enough to handle the challenges of the Aquarian Age. He did not come to be anyone's guru. He came to teach teachers.

One basic meditation: you put the body into a comfortable sitting position with the spine absolutely straight, tucking chin slightly to stretch the vertebrae at the base of the skull. Let the hands rest on the knees with the thumbs and forefingers of each hand forming an"O" and the other three fingers are straight. This hand position is called gyan mudra. Gyan means knowledge. Using other fingers activates other centers, however, gyan mudra is most commonly used. Eye position can either be closed, focusing your attention at the point between and slightly above the brow at your third eye; or you can have the eyes 1/10th open looking at the tip of the nose. This second eye position takes some getting used to because your body will tell you that it is dizzy or the focal point tends to shift around. If practiced regularly, this tendency decreases and you will become steady in this by the 40th day. Next part of the meditation is the breath. One that is especially calming that I like to do is this: inhaling through the nose in 4 even segments, then exhaling through the nose in 4 even segments. Completely fill and empty your lungs on each cycle. Pay complete attention to the breath. It will automatically slow down into a comfortable rhythm after about 3 minutes. The optimal time for this meditation is 31 minutes, though you get benefits from this at 11 minutes also.

Ravi Nam Kaur Khalsa


Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:47:26 -0700
Subject: The Nine Needs

Hi All,
This is an interesting article from Jose and Lena Stevens' Pivotal site:
I think it's neat to look at and determine what are my main needs in this life and as I look at those, I get an indication (or verification) of where my major issues in life are as well. I think this makes a great tool for finding what our fears are about and hoped we could discuss some of this, anyone who feels like it. :^)

By the way--in regards to John Rogers' post saying that you want fulfillment and purpose only out of "selfish" desires--please consider you are where you're at for a reason, and that seeking fulfillment and purpose is what all essences seek--it is not selfish necessarily--it's getting your needs met, which are just as valid as anyone else's. I'm seeking the same thing.....

I've got some of my own stuff interjected in here to illustrate how I've used this information. But the whole article is copied below and can be found here at:

http://www.pivres.com/~pivotal/9needs.html The Nine Needs

> If you have been a student of the Michael Teachings you are quite familiar with the
> overleaves that define the personality. You know that each person has an essence role
> that is a consistent theme throughout their lives and that they have a goal that orients
> their motivations toward a particular theme. This goal or motivational theme changes
> with each lifetime to provide a wide range of lessons. As with the goal, the attitude,
> mode, center, body type, and chief feature also change with each life to provide many
> unique combinations to challenge and delight the essence's experience of life on Earth.
> In addition to the overleaves, each person has needs that seek satisfaction. In total there
> are nine needs but each individual has only three of them that are stable throughout life.
> Some of these needs are similar to the overleaves but they serve a slightly different
> function. While the overleaves are primary perspectives, methods, and ways of
> reacting, the needs are simply requirements for personal satisfaction. Certain
> combinations of needs and overleaves are common: for example, the need for exchange
> and being intellectually centered, the need for freedom and having the moving center,
> the need for communion and having the emotional center, yet any need can go with any
> set of overleaves. Some combinations make for eccentric-looking people and may in
> fact raise conflicts within the personality - such as the need for security combined with
> a goal of growth.

Lori here--Yeah! The need for security and the goal of growth do indeed, in my own experience of having these two, make my life very strage--it's like having one foot on the brake and the other on the accellerator almost all the time--it tears you apart unless you can find a good balance point--very hard to do! Sometimes it is so excruciatingly painful, bundles of energy with nowhere to go, I get obsessed.....

> More often the needs totally support the set of overleaves selected, so
> that for example, the need for expansion is likely to go with passion mode, a goal of
> dominance, and a Jupiter body type.
>
> Here are the nine needs and a simple code to help you remember them.
>
> CODE TO REMEMBER: SAFE PEACE
>
> 1. SECURITY 5. POWER
> 2. ADVENTURE 6. EXPRESSION
> 3. FREEDOM 7. ACCEPTANCE
> 4. EXPANSION 8. COMMUNION
> 9. EXCHANGE
>
> If your needs are met, you will be happy; to the extent they are not met, you will feel
> stress, feel frustrated, or be dissatisfied. Sometimes the stress of not having your needs
> met results in personal growth, so it is not always a bad thing if your needs are not met.
> On occasion your essence deliberately thwarts a need so that you will be pushed to deal
> with a lesson. For example, essence may block your security need for awhile to push
> you out of your comfortable pattern (a safe but boring job), and get you to broaden
> your horizons.

Yeah, that's where I'm at: a safe job doing totally scholarly things--I am a scientist who collects lots of data, but it's a boring job. Interestingly though, in a way it gives me freedom too: money to do the kinds of eccentric things I like--like going to Michael conferences and alternative healing centers ;-), I get to surf the 'net, I get to get away from taking care of my wonderful but so physically/emotionally demanding 17-month old son, so that the time I do spend with him is more quality time, well, usually.... I keep looking though at what other stuff I'd like to do: I've thought of going into doing bodywork and Reiki and my own somewhat esoteric channeling/healing techniques, on my own, but would have no health benefits (and I use those A LOT) and would probably have to stay home, without childcare, and I just think I would go absolutely nuts like I almost did a year ago when I had 6 months off for maternity leave. It's funny--like, I need security but depending on someone else like my husband, for income/benefits makes me so antsy--I value my independence too much (which shows a need for freedom too, but I wonder if it's one of me "3 main needs," ....well....on further....

> There are nine needs in all, but since each person has only three main needs you may
> share one or more needs with another person or you may have none in common with
> them. The needs tend to run relationships and have much to do with whether the
> relationship is sustainable or not. If you share no needs with a person, it may be
> difficult to make the relationship successful in the long run, particularly if you have
> contradictory needs. The more needs you have in common with another person, the
> more you will tend to get along well. Karmic relationships are often accompanied by
> opposing needs- like one person with a need for freedom and the other with a need for
> security.

Heh--yeah--THAT one has come up in my karmic/soul-mate type of relationships!

> Example of no connection:
>
> Person 1. expansion - freedom - adventure
> Person 2. communion - security - acceptance
>
> Example of some connection:
>
> Person 1. expression - security - acceptance
> Person 2. communion - security - expansion
>
> Example of strong connection:
>
> Person 1. exchange - security - adventure
> Person 2. communion - security - adventure
>
> The needs can be expressed negatively or positively. You can see this in the positive
> and negative poles of each. The needs are normal drives, but may become unbalanced
> due to fear patterns in the personality. They can be entangled with chief features or
> contaminated by the traps of centers. You will see examples of these below.

That's how I see you can use these needs as indicators of where fears are running you and where Chief Feature takes over.

> Your soul age or level of maturity has a big influence on whether you express the needs
> in a healthy way or not. They can be expressed quite differently depending on the soul
> ages and levels. For example, an infant soul might kill someone to meet his need for
> adventure; a baby soul might become a missionary to meet that need; a young soul with
> a need for adventure may go off to war; a mature soul might seek adventure in a
> romance; an old soul might travel for spiritual enrichment. As you read on, you will
> learn the positive and negative poles of each, and discern how they might play out
> according to soul age.
>
> Each need has seven levels and the higher the level of need met, the greater the level of
> satisfaction. The older the soul you are, the more chance you have of being able to
> meet the highest levels of each need. However, in a crisis you may have to return to the
> lowest levels to meet a need temporarily.
>
> Here are some explanations of the nine needs and what they refer to.
>
> 1. Security: + trust - fear
>
> Before taking any kind of action or making any decision, the person needs to know
> they will be OK; they need an anchor point. For example, before moving to a new
> town, they need to have a job set up or know a friend there.
>
> The positive aspect is being able to trust that you will always get what you need and
> that your essence is arranging your life according to a higher plan. In the negative pole
> you can be fearful of doing anything, appear phobic, and never want to leave the house
> or try anything without total assurance.

I think this one relates a lot to caution mode and as far as scholars go, we like to check most things out before we do them anyway, I think.... Exploring all the possibilities. Certainly there have been times where I let my security needs just fall away into the wind, but having this need as a high priority does make it difficult to move. I look back at my childhood though, and wonder if there isn't a kid alive who was either orphaned or adopted that doesn't have this as a high one on the list! I can see how my essence would have set up this one, I was adopted as a baby at 3 weeks of age, but was taken from my mother at birth. There is a whole lot of bonding and security forming that goes on at that critical stage of a child's life....It certainly makes sense then that this has always been a big issue for me. I had lots of irrational fears as a child and got a lot of security issues of my mom imprinted on me too.

> The seven levels of the need for security are: 1. blind faith 2. groping, intimidation,
> clinging to false hope 3. clinging to tradition 4. safety based on theory 5. safety based
> on reliable sources 6. safety based on experience and intuition 7. trust in the Tao.

Well I hope I can find this kind of trust in #7 for more than a few moments in a higher-centered state! :^) No really, I know I can trust, but there is something deep within me that hasn't healed--a fear of abandonment and it really deals with survival, very primal things.

> 2. Adventure: + presence - drama
>
> This is the need for adrenaline rush, travel, new experiences, stimulation, and risk
> taking. It can also be the need for challenge, and therefore is often associated with the
> goal of growth.
>
> Since adventure stimulates a person to be awake and pay attention, it supports a high
> degree of presence. This is excellent for a person who has tended to fall asleep lifetime
> after lifetime. Adventure can be contaminated with self-destructiveness and greed (or
> any chief feature), leading to intensely negative dramas.
>
> The seven levels of the need for adventure are: 1. destructive drama 2.
> glamour/addictions/adrenaline rush 3. excitement of senses -
> sex/drugs/entertainment/travel 4. stimulation of mind/learning 5. self/inner discovery 6.
> essence contact 7. enlightenment/presence.

I like this one a lot...adventure...but it's not so strong for me as something to seek out more than once in a while.....

> 3. Freedom: + independence - fear of commitment
>
> This is the need for unfettered experience. If you have this need you desire as much
> freedom from structure (9-5) and commitments (deadlines) as possible; you desire
> spontaneity and great mobility.
>
> In the positive pole you are a responsible and independent person who thinks for
> yourself and is not controlled by the culture or environmental constraints. In the
> negative pole you can be a flake, never keeping agreements, running away from
> responsibility, and acting like what Jung called the puer or puella eternis.
>
> The seven levels of the need for freedom are: 1. destructive irresponsibility 2.
> aimless/unfocused 3. released/ unshackled 4. liberated mentally 5. liberated emotionally
> 6. freely choosing 7. realization of limitless potential/ peaceful.

This one I feel pretty strongly too! It certainly is in conflict with the security need but pulls on my goal of growth.... I enjoy spontenaity, and sometimes have fears of commitments, fears of getting trapped into something I'd have no control over.....But I know I've always been an independent kind of person, done lots of stuff on my own when no one else was interested.....often was a "loner"....

> 4. Expansion: + prosperity - indiscriminate growth
>
> Having this need means that you want to build on, add on, make things grow at all
> levels. You are an empire builder; striving to be evolutionary, future oriented, and a
> big-picture person. You pursue and encourage growth in business, property
> accumulation, agriculture, home building, family growth, and anything that can expand,
> will.
>
> The positive pole means pursuing true prosperity, fulfillment, and satisfaction on every
> level; to make a big difference in the world. In the negative pole, you may simply be
> greedy for things and are likely to become physically fat.
>
> The seven levels of the need for expansion are: 1. cancer 2. indiscriminate
> growth/accumulation 3. sprawl 4. stretch of ideas 5. emotional expansion/ growth 6.
> expansion of spirit/awareness/transformation 7. total awareness/prosperity.

Nah, I've got hardly any action overleaves anyway....but the growth, and transformation, awareness, I relate to that.

> 5. Power: + authority - authoritarian
>
> This need drives you to have influence, feel capable, exude confidence, explore power,
> and desire responsibility. In lieu of being powerful you may like to be around big power
> or be the power behind the throne; to be the king maker, for example.
>
> In the positive pole, you will develop into a person who wields authority for the
> common good or be an authoritative person who is able to teach others. In the negative
> pole, you can easily become a tyrant or a dictator.
>
> The seven levels of the need for power are: 1. crush opposition 2. oppress self and
> others 3. control self and others 4. guide/influence self and others 5. erase personal
> energy leaks/self discipline 6. spiritual practices to build power 7. personal
> authority/spiritual power.

The only power I'm interested in is personal....

> 6. Expression: + creative - lies
>
> This need drives you to be heard, seen, and felt - in dress, artistic creations, and verbal
> expression. The need for expression encourages creative expression in others through
> example. A highly expressive artist might motivate others to increase their level of
> expression by showing them what is possible.
>
> The positive pole of the need for expression is to exploit one's own creative talent to its
> full potential for the benefit of self and others. In the negative pole you might fall into
> demanding that others see you and hear you sans quality, monopolize people as sages
> often do, have no taste, and seek only to shock people.
>
> The seven levels of the expression need are: 1. total destruction 2. destructive acts 3.
> infamy/shock others for attention/ vanity 4. work projects 5. entertain 6. artistic self
> expression 7. renaissance person - full use of creativity to delight the world.

Neat and aritsan/sagy, something that attracts me as beauty does, but not such a high need I guess....

> 7. Acceptance: + open, friendly - manipulative
>
> This is the need to be loved, nurtured, cared for, included, and well received. This need
> also requires you to be friendly and accepting of others.
>
> In the positive pole you will have the need to be open and inviting with people. In the
> negative pole you can be dishonest or ingratiating to prevent rejection. This approach to
> life results in manipulative behavior that will eventually boomerang.
>
> The seven levels of the acceptance need are: 1. ingratiation 2. pleasing 3. toleration 4.
> conditional acceptance 5. matter-of-fact ok-ness 6. love 7. agape.

hmm....this one I feel at least as strongly as freedom...."I want to be loved," is a very true statement as I have quite a fear of being judged, even as I realize I'm my own worst critic.

> 8. Communion: + sharing - indiscriminate contact
>
> This is the need to be with people all the time. You tend to be tribal and family oriented
> and highly social. Any excuse will do for a get-together, and anyone will do.
>
> The positive pole leads you to share your space and generate a feeling of family or
> community. In fact, with this need you will be a community builder. The negative pole
> means that you are indiscriminate in your contacts and are willing to hang around with
> bad eggs like drug dealers just to avoid being alone. You literally run from alone time.
> This can result in people seeing you as extremely shallow.
>
> The seven levels of the need for communion are: 1. indiscriminate contact 2. desperate
> neediness 3. fraternizing 4. socializing 5. closeness/warmth 6. intimacy and communion
> 7. union.

#6 and #7 here are very strongly compelling to me--hence perhaps, my desire to have this mailing list? To find comerades and create a kind of on-line community, where everyone's "safe" to be themselves and share with each other with common interests....

> 9. Exchange: + disseminate and absorb - slander, gossip, dealer
>
> This is the need to exchange information, energy, or goods with people when you are
> with them. You will tend to socialize only if you have something to exchange, otherwise
> you will see no point in the contact. In the positive pole you can be a wonderful source
> of knowledge for people, a great teacher and student. In the negative pole you can be a
> snitch, a slanderer, or manipulative with information. You can also be a ruthless arms
> dealer or drug dealer.
>
> The seven levels of the need for exchange are: 1. slander/war 2. gossip 3. idle chatter 4.
> trade/barter 5. mutual profit (win-win) 6. understanding 7. teaching/learning.

I like this one too--expresses my scholarliness and priestliness (in casting)....

All I know for sure is that Security is my highest need--I've done lots of alternative healing/self-help type of work trying to get to the root of that need and get it more in balance with my other needs. Freedom and adventure I really need once in a while just to make things bearable. The goal of growth and security need really tears me apart. My ultimate goal I feel I need is to integrate all these parts of myself and find a kind of harmony.... Something where I can share with other people my knowledge/talents (like in communion or exchange), be creative in expression, accepted/accepting, loving/loved, free and secure at the same time....All this wrapped up in some kind of package that I don't know what it looks like....

I wonder if there should be more than just these 9 needs....because, I can see how they go in threes along with the axes of the overleaves: (IMO--I could have some of these on the wrong axis)

security, freedom, and communion would be on the Inspiration axis (priest/server)
power, expansion, and adventure on the Action axis (king/warrior) acceptance, expression, and exchange on the Expression axis (sage/artisan)

So I wonder where the neutral assimilation axis comes in here. Or are all needs polarized?
What would the neutral ones be? Scholars need to be learning something new all the time, and I know that need isn't getting met for me in the ways I want to, but sometimes they are.
So, for assimilation axis:
Rest, Relaxation, and ....hmm.... what could the third one be? Just assimilation? Should there be 12 needs and not just 9?
Hey! Maybe these are where the True work, rest, play, and study come in???
I'm not getting much on this...it's too subjective for me to channel on so far, and anyway, the way I channel is kind of different.
Anyone got some input or ideas on their own needs?

Love,
Lori


Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 05:22:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Scholars in Observation

Here's some old one liners that are just perfect for....

YOU KNOW YOU'RE A SCHOLAR WHEN....

1. You believe that no matter how crowded a gathering may be, there's room for one "bore."

2. You can stay longer in an hour than most people do in a week.

3. When there's nothing more to say, you're still saying it.

4. You're very cultured -- you can bore others on every subject.

5. The hardest secret you've ever had to keep is your opinion of yourself.

I'll leave the rest for the imagination. ;-p

Dave - Artisan &.....uh, (sheepish grin)...Scholar...(running out of the room to avoid flying projectiles) ;-p


Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 09:37:00 -0700
Subject: Re: ETs and Yelm

A few comments on scanning through this message:

About ET's: John, the very intense energy can be karmic, rather than meeting an ET. My ex-husband and I married after knowing each other only 3 weeks and were married for more than 21 years -- no ET relationship there, just very strong agreements and maybe something karmic. I've never asked about it, because when it was time to move on, it was very clear to both of us.

About Yelm and the Ramtha thing: My older son moved to Yelm (almost 2 years ago) from S.Cal with his wife, who grew up in the area. It's a very nice area to raise children and a whole lot of wonderful reasons to be there besides the tourists that come to hear Ramtha. btw: in one of our channelings from Michael, we heard that Ramtha is actually an infant soul king, with one life on Earth, who not thinks he knows everything. Also, lots of karma being created with JZ Knight and others who listen to the preachings.

Barbara Taylor


Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:47:52 -0400
Subject: Infant King Ramtha

Barbara Taylor wrote:

[clipped]

> btw: in one of our channelings from Michael, we heard that Ramtha
> is actually an infant soul king, with one life on Earth, who not thinks
> he knows everything. Also, lots of karma being created with JZ Knight
> and others who listen to the preachings.

1) Dear Barbara, what does the typo "who not thinks" really mean?

2) I have a copy of Ramtha's white book. It is one of my most favored books. How is it that Ramtha, an infant soul, could produce such a beautiful and wise book? How is it that he retained so much of his original knowingness during his one time on earth? He says he got it during extensive contemplation while recovering from multiple battle wounds. I guess maybe a king would do that. I do wonder how the other infant essence types would behave in such a prolonged situation of enforced inactivity. What made Ramtha so different?

Peace and Light to You and Yours,
Kenneth Broom, Columbia, MD, USA
aka I.A.M. Research
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
INFP, 7th Level Old Scholar/Server, Observation, Acceptance, Idealist,
Emotional Part of Intellectual Center, Impatience, Mercurial
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:05:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Infant King Ramtha

In a message dated 97-09-28 13:50:46 EDT, kenbroom@earthling.net writes:

<< 1) Dear Barbara, what does the typo "who not thinks" really mean?

2) I have a copy of Ramtha's white book. It is one of my most favored
books. How is it that Ramtha, an infant soul, could produce such a
beautiful and wise book? How is it that he retained so much of his
original knowingness during his one time on earth? He says he got it
during extensive contemplation while recovering from multiple battle
wounds. I guess maybe a king would do that. I do wonder how the other
infant essence types would behave in such a prolonged situation of
enforced inactivity. What made Ramtha so different?

Peace and Light to You and Yours,
Kenneth Broom, Columbia, MD, USA >>

I assumed that Barbara had meant to type the word "now" instead of "not." Also, I've never read any of the teachings of Ramtha (though now my interest has been perked) but as to why an infant King would convey a vast degree of knowledge, it probably has to do with the amount of cycles he has accumulated. Perhaps Ramtha has 20 gazillion cycles under his belt and the category of infant soul now means nothing as a result, or perhaps he was just raised on tongue sandwiches like the rest of us. ;-p

Dave - Have cycle will travel


Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:23:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Infant King Ramtha

On 28 Sep 1997 Dave Gregg wrote:

> I assumed that Barbara had meant to type the word "now" instead of "not."
> Also, I've never read any of the teachings of Ramtha (though now my interest
> has been perked) but as to why an infant King would convey a vast degree of
> knowledge, it probably has to do with the amount of cycles he has
> accumulated. Perhaps Ramtha has 20 gazillion cycles under his belt and the
> category of infant soul now means nothing as a result, or perhaps he was just
> raised on tongue sandwiches like the rest of us. ;-p
>
> Dave - Have cycle will travel

I've read the "white book" of Ramtha, and also the "UFO's and the Nature of Reality" book of Ramtha (actually I read that one first) and I did like them a lot. *EXCEPT* that Ramtha, I noticed, puts guilt trips on people. It's very subtle, but in his attempt to empower people, I felt some of it was manipulation.

Ramtha claims to be an extraterrestrial from one of the Andromedan groups. He said he had one lifetime on Earth, during Atlantean times, and that it was he who "invented" war. It is hard for me to imagine, that during this lifetime in which he wielded such power to lead millions into war, that he would have been at an infant-soul level. The life he described seems to me to fit more into the young-soul stage. Nevertheless, his being an extraterrestrial in a human form that lifetime leads me to think there were other influences on him as well. The Andromedans have quite a vast spiritual heirarchy and would have been watching him with keen interest and their presence was probably the reason for his sitting atop a large rock for 7 years contemplating life, becoming the wind, and gaining such spiritual knowledge that he did.

Now, it's conceivable that he's completed his cycle of lifetimes as an Andromedan and so I don't know what level he would have been coming from, but probably at least old-soul level.

As far as who JZ Knight is channeling now:
Stephen Cocconi channeled Michael as saying that a few years ago Ramtha left JZ because she was becoming too dependent on him and she was burning out from channeling, and that no being/entity with the highest spiritual good at heart for their channel(s) will destroy their channels in that way, so that is why Ramtha left. In her desperation, Steve said, JZ was able to get a baby-soul discarnate Warrior to channel through her, and he has been the one she's actually channeling for the last 10 years or so, not Ramtha. This Warrior and JZ are creating lots of karma.

I have no proof, but that is the news as I heard it, and I've not read any of the Ramtha material that came after 1985 or so anyway....But what I did read I liked, and found it useful to me at the time, even if just to show me where I held a lot of guilt and shame (judgements).

So, for whatever it's worth!

Love,
Lori


Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:59:45 +0000
Subject: Re: ETs and Yelm

> in one of our channelings from Michael, we heard that Ramtha is actually an infant
> soul king, with one life on Earth, who not thinks he knows everything.
> Also, lots of karma being created with JZ Knight and others who listen
> to the preachings.

I have a hard time believing from what I've experienced that Ramtha is an infant soul. Now, JZ is another matter..........

John Rogers


Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 19:48:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Infant King Ramtha

Lori Tostado wrote:

[clipped]

> I've read the "white book" of Ramtha, and also the "UFO's and the Nature
> of Reality" book of Ramtha (actually I read that one first) and I did
> like them a lot. *EXCEPT* that Ramtha, I noticed, puts guilt trips on
> people. It's very subtle, but in his attempt to empower people, I felt
> some of it was manipulation.

This is interesting. In hindsight I recall from some Ramtha videos that what you are saying about Ramtha being manipulative at times as being true. Or at least he can be seen as having slid from King(Leadership) to Warrior(Coercion) at times.

> Ramtha claims to be an extraterrestrial from one of the Andromedan
> groups. He said he had one lifetime on Earth, during Atlantean times,
> and that it was he who "invented" war. It is hard for me to imagine,
> that during this lifetime in which he wielded such power to lead millions
> into war, that he would have been at an infant-soul level.

It's kinda difficult for me to even picture an "Infant King". It seems like an oxymoron, like military intelligence, with greatest apologies to John Scott.

> The life he described seems to me to fit more into the young-soul stage.
> Nevertheless, his being an extraterrestrial in a human form that lifetime
> leads me to think there were other influences on him as well. The
> Andromedans have quite a vast spiritual heirarchy and would have been
> watching him with keen interest and their presence was probably the
> reason for his sitting atop a large rock for 7 years contemplating life,
> becoming the wind, and gaining such spiritual knowledge that he did.
> Now, it's conceivable that he's completed his cycle of lifetimes as an
> Andromedan and so I don't know what level he would have been coming from,
> but probably at least old-soul level.

Could be that anyone spending 7 years on a rock, without normal human emotional strife, or having to be concerned about survival issues, could grow from Infant to Old within a lifetime

[clipped]

This reminds me of an amusing (in retrospect) thing that happened several years ago. I was playfully imitating Ramtha's foot-stomping, wide-kneed, hands-on-knees, elbows-out, INDEED-speaking dialog for some friends. About a minute into my impression, the energy around me changed, and I knew I had gone too far into the imitation. I could feel this powerful energy around me, as though something was saying "OK, you want to play, then here's the real thing." It scared me a little bit, and I immediately stopped the imitation, and never tried it again.

Now, right this moment, I just "got" the idea that I can, by "imitating" an element of the scenario, enter any scenario that I desire, at any level that I desire, in any time frame that I desire. Anything conceivable can be manifested. This must be investigated. Happy little scholar me.

Peace and Light to You and Yours,
Kenneth Broom, Columbia, MD, USA
aka I.A.M. Research

-------------------------------------------------------------------
7th Level Old Scholar, Observation, Acceptance, Idealist,
Emotional Part of Intellectual Center, Impatience. INFP.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:22:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re Ramtha

Here's my take on JZ and Ramtha....

First, the channel who called Ramtha an infant king, however it was, should be spanked. I doubt that any infant soul has ever been much of a king of anything, and the channel should have been less sloppy and prejudicial.

The entity Ramtha has been described by many people I've spoken with as having an incredible loving energy. His love is the glue that holds that group together. Whether the same entity is still coming through JZ or not, the glue is still there. JZ personally isn't the glue, it's whoever comes through.

Now JZ has an interesting biography (it's a great read!) -- she was one of 8 or 9 kids in a poor-white-trash sharecropper family in Texas with a truly heroic mother. JZ was raped by her uncle when she was four. In all of her later history she seems to be a middle or late young soul with a lot of intelligence and energy but an absence of older soul traits. I certainly wouldn't rule out that she's an older soul, though, and I never have met her.

The substance of what Ramtha has channeled over the years seems to be mostly what JZ herself has read or picked up from other teachers. One way or another, the intention lately has been to build up a "mystery school" there in which the students have gotten deeply into everything esoteric and mystical there is or ever was they can find. I think they are doing very well at this. I don't find any fault with anything she or they are doing.

All the best, Ed


Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 21:29:34 -0400
Subject: Re Ramtha

Ed wrote:

> Here's my take on JZ and Ramtha....
>
> First, the channel who called Ramtha an infant king, however it was, should
> be spanked. I doubt that any infant soul has ever been much of a king of
> anything, and the channel should have been less sloppy and prejudicial.

No violence/spankings please.

> The entity Ramtha has been described by many people I've spoken with as
> having an incredible loving energy. His love is the glue that holds that
> group together. Whether the same entity is still coming through JZ or not,
> the glue is still there. JZ personally isn't the glue, it's whoever comes through.

This is the energy I felt coming from the White Book. I expect that by now, due to her long exposure to it, the Ramtha love energy has become an integral part of JZ's being, regardless of who she may be channeling.

[clipped]

> One way or another, the intention lately has been to build up a "mystery school" there
> in which the students have gotten deeply into everything esoteric and
> mystical there is or ever was they can find. I think they are doing very
> well at this. I don't find any fault with anything she or they are doing.

Bien Dicho, well said, and thanks for sharing this, Ed. It seems as though they are doing the same things that I and many others have, and are still, doing. IMHO, if the teaching is valid, then the age or level of the teacher is irrelevant.

Peace and Light to You and Yours, Kenneth Broom, Columbia, MD, USA
aka I.A.M. Research
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
INFP, 7th Level Old Scholar, Observation, Acceptance, Idealist,
Emotional Part of Intellectual Center, Impatience.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


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