Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 06:59:03 -0400
Subject: List Lurker Love

Way to go, Lynne! (re: your responses to Dr. Damasco)

I'm really impressed by the Michael Teachings Lurkers. It seems as though whenever one of you quiet folks posts a message to the list I feel affirmed and "Right On!" and "Yeah!" and "Way to go!". I'm really glad you all are a part of this list.

Even though I do not know you all yet I still deeply feel your that you lurker folks are part of my Michael Teachings family. I can, more and more, feel your loving energies quietly participating via your reading and thinking about the Michael List Postings.

I love you all just as much as I love us non-lurkers.

I've got a little stinging behind my eyebones as I write this.

Happy Scholar sez: "It's really OK for Ken to be a happy little crybaby."

Geez, is this what AGAPE is? Man... I love it.

Would you believe... I haven't even sent this post yet, and I can feel your responses around me. Thanks much, you all.

Peace and Light to You and Yours,
Kenneth Broom, The Happy Scholar, INFP
   7th level Old Scholar/Server, Observation, Acceptance, Idealist,
   Higher Emotional & Higher Intellectual, Impatience/Stubbornness,
aka I.A.M. Research, Columbia, Maryland, USA

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:25:38 +0800
Subject: Re: Truth about MT list

LORI,
       You wrote me a letter categorized PRIVATE MAIL. You publish your mail but remove my reply. You are UNFAIR. Even in court you are allowed to hear both side. You twist the truth by deleting my response. For the sake of truth I am publishing my replies and including supporting evidences in your list. These are the information herewith :

At 09:01 AM 7/26/98 -0700, you wrote:

> Ernie, Good day to you.
> I would like to remind you that there are more appropriate places for
> forwarding such messages as these, such as the "Spirit List" and the
> "Spirit Communication List." I think you may also find, if you haven't
> already, that the Michael Teachings List isn't a place where we like
> being preached at either, but if you feel like sharing YOUR own thoughts
> and feelings, that is fine and welcome in a mature manner, just like
> everybody else's. Thank you for understanding.
>
> Blessings,
> Lori

My Reply :

Dear Lon,

        You will agree with me if there is an error done in the computer. Unfortunately, this material was intended to Goddess and Spirit list. If ever the materials find its place to your home please delete. We have not reach a degree of machine perfection and from time to time we have this problem . Spiritweb have its own machine problem.

        I will try to rewrite the program so this problem be prevented. I will make sure that you will not receive any posting relevant or irrelevant.

        I understand your requirements with the list. The list is a pagan list advocating, Taoism, Hinduism, Atheism, etc. The michael your are talking about is a discarnate soul finding to express himself in the physical plane. This is not the Michael of Holy Bible nor the Michael of Urantia Book. Many new members were at a lost because list members were talking about a different michael. I suggests that appropiate title and the word Michael be replaced in order to prevent misrepresentation and confusion.

        Religion is an institution. The name Michael is associated with the Michael of the Holy Bible and Urantia Book. It is always associated with christian religion. Never in Taoism or Hinduism, or paganism. The name Michael, as the people thought is a christian Michael. Please make a clarification in your list info. Else, you are deceiving new members.

        I did not preach or proselyte. I just posted an information and I get an insult. If this could happen to me it could happen to anybody. I didn't participate in the discussion. I know through your low vibration, you are something else. You may continue in what you are doing and do not count on me. It is my prerogatives if I will participate or not. If I will subscribe or unsubscribe. This is a free planet. I want freedom as you do. Please respect my decision.

        I do not want to sensationalized this differences. Please do not use the mail for public. ( You force me by being unfair.)

        In the future, if we cross our path, I will face you. Name the forum, the place and the topic.

        Very truly yours, Dr. E.L.Damasco

------------------------------------------
MORE EVIDENCES FROM ARCHIEVE
------------------------------------------
Post-No.: michael-teachings-l/1998-02-20/847 (digest-marker)
From: John C
Subject: Hindu

It seems to me the Michael Teaching is very similar to Hinduism. Hindu focuses
on knowing atman (our true nature) as a path to a higher level of being. This
seems to correspond with our efforts to get into our positive poles. Or, more
generally, just knowing more about ourselves through knowing our overleaves.

And the caste system is certainly similar to the Michael Teaching's "roles."

This is kind of an academic observation since it is not really something that
can be used for growth or better functioning in the world, or service to
others. Still, my mind works this way, so I figure I might as well go ahead
and put this out there.

Socrates and Plato were also definitely tapped into these teachings. All that
stuff about philosopher-kings - read: pick an old soul to lead you. And of
course there was Ouspenksy and Gurijieff (sp sp).

Back into modern times, some channeled teachings I've been working with also
seem to be very Hindu in that they also focus on knowing and being the soul.
These teachings, from Sanaya Roman and Duane Packer, also employ the help of
higher plane "beings." This seems similar to HIndu's use of many deities.

I've been told that Sanaya and Duane are channeling causal plane entities,
which is of course where the Michaels hang their hats. So I'm wondering if
these teachings, which have similarities, are similar because they are coming
from the same place. Or if they are similar only because true personality and
essence focusing offer a good practical path for humans.

There are other teachings or religions that offer different advice. Or, I
should say, focus on different areas. The Chinese religions focused on social
relationships. The middle-eastern Judeo -Christian-Islam strain is concerned
mostly with the outer world (Man shall have dominion over the animals...). The
shamanistic practices are concerned with increasing personal power and
personal use of energy. Hindu and Buddhism, from India, both address the
ultimate nature of reality, which they relate to the inner self and its
development (thus the focus on the self).

So, why different teachings in different places? What is the story of the
Michael Teachings through time? What was its role in ancient Egypt? Are there
other types of teachings coming from the causal plane?

Wouldn't it be great to snap in all the pieces in the jigsaw puzzle?
Love, John C.
-------------------------------------
Post-No.: michael-teachings-l/1998-02-20/848 (digest-marker)
From: Mike H
Subject: Hindu

>John C. wrote:
>
>So, why different teachings in different places? What is the story of the
>Michael Teachings through time? What was its role in ancient Egypt? Are there
>other types of teachings coming from the causal plane?

    One of JP's channelings, I believe, said that in ancient times Michael
was thought of as the sun god! They said we can handle that and proceeded
to give helpful information.
    Mike
--------------------------------------------
Post-No.: michael-teachings-l/1998-02-20/849 (digest-marker)
From: Mike H
Subject: Hindu

    Hi all,
    Somewhere I read that (was it on this list? The memory is the first to
go...) when reincarnation is proven "scientifically" many people will turn
to the Hindu religion because reincarnation is included in Hinduism.
    Mike
--------------------------------------------
Post-No.: michael-teachings-l/1998-02-20/850 (digest-marker)
From: Mike H
Subject: Channeling hits

Hi,
    I remember I once asked a Michael channel what activity for me is true
rest? To understand Michael's reaction it must be understood that up to
that time I had had a fairly low stress life. Michael started laughing and
said ...of all the people to ask that question. I was a little annoyed at
the time but later thought it was funny. That Michael channel lived in a
another city and did not know me personally.
    While getting things from channelers they could not possibly know has
not been necessary for me to believe channeling is real it is fun for me
when it happens. I even felt it was in poor taste to test them but I
remember Michael saying through one channel that they didn't mind.
    Mike
--------------------------------
Post-No.: michael-teachings-l/1998-02-21/857 (digest-marker)
From: Brin
Subject: re: the Hindu system

FWIW, I sense that the caste system in the Hindu world was very much the
same information coming through that we have gotten again as information
about roles through Michael. When it came through that time, it just got
distorted and used in economic and political ways. People who were in power
tried to use it to stay in power rather than using the information in a way
to empower everyone.

I think at this time that old hierarchical approach is giving way to seeing
ourselves as one body and seeing each role as playing a necessary part
within the whole. At this time we are also understanding ourselves to be
whole within ourselves as well. As a seed is whole. And a seedling is
whole, and a tree at any stage can easily be seen to be whole. So are we.
And at the same time interwoven and playing a part within our entity, our
cadre, and our world.

Best to all, Brin
------------------------------------
Post-No.: michael-teachings-l/1998-02-22/865 (digest-marker)
From: J J Tan
Subject: Re: Hindu

At 06:03 AM 2/20/98 -0000, John C wrote:

> It seems to me the Michael Teaching is very similar to Hinduism. Hindu focuses
> on knowing atman (our true nature) as a path to a higher level of being. This
> seems to correspond with our efforts to get into our positive poles. Or, more
> generally, just knowing more about ourselves through knowing our overleaves.

According to Michael, Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, and Taoism, were
founded because of an Infinite Soul. And Infinite Soul was here to tell us
about the Tao. I would say that they must be similar, otherwise there
would be different Taos. :-) Then again, there is the matter of how much
of the original teaching are intact in our present literature.

If you look at it from the perspective of Hindu, you would see similarities
there. If I see it from the perspective of ancient Greek philosophy of
"Know Thyself", I would say that it is exactly the same thing. If you
would just glance through Tao Te Ching, you would probably say the same
thing over and over again.

> And the caste system is certainly similar to the Michael Teaching's "roles."

If only in appearance.

> This is kind of an academic observation since it is not really something that
> can be used for growth or better functioning in the world, or service to
> others. Still, my mind works this way, so I figure I might as well go ahead
> and put this out there.

For the major part of my [relatively short] life, my mind works just like
that way, too. Being born in Singapore has the advantage (I wonder if that
was the reason I chose to be born here) of coming into close contacts
philosophies and religions of the world. That Singapore is now being
developed into a major "hub" in terms of commerce and information of the
world encourage the "meeting" of cultures even more.

It was until about 2 or 3 years ago that "the way my mind works" slowly
took a turn.

> Socrates and Plato were also definitely tapped into these teachings. All that
> stuff about philosopher-kings - read: pick an old soul to lead you. And of
> course there was Ouspenksy and Gurijieff (sp sp).

Socrates was a Transcendental Soul, according to Michael. I wonder if
Transcendental Soul energy is just as intense as Infinite Soul energy? Any
channelers would like to ask Michael about this? My knowledge of
life-history of those 4 Transcendental Souls are limited, but I think they
did not die "a natural death", right? Was that because the Transcendental
Soul energy too intense to handle for long term?

> Back into modern times, some channeled teachings I've been working with also
> seem to be very Hindu in that they also focus on knowing and being the soul.
> These teachings, from Sanaya Roman and Duane Packer, also employ the help of
> higher plane "beings." This seems similar to HIndu's use of many deities.

Maybe what the Hindus call "deities" are those higher planes beings? But
that is where the Baby Soul characteristic comes in (as is obvious in all
the ancient and major religions being introduced into a world of Baby Souls
in majority), where calling higher plane beings as superior or in position
of authority is concerned.

> I've been told that Sanaya and Duane are channeling causal plane entities,
> which is of course where the Michaels hang their hats. So I'm wondering if
> these teachings, which have similarities, are similar because they are coming
> from the same place. Or if they are similar only because true personality and
> essence focusing offer a good practical path for humans.

In the spirit of Michael's Teaching, it is a matter of choice. :-) The
choice to see this as a "good practical path", or pick any path. If what
Michael says was true, we grow spiritually no matter what we do -- it is
inevitable. That our Essence will always learn from what we do here,
whether we are aware of what we are doing, or not (enlighten or not). I
suppose the only difference is the speed of spiritual growth. Even that,
Essence is eternally patient, so "speed" is also not a significant factor.

> There are other teachings or religions that offer different advice. Or, I
> should say, focus on different areas. The Chinese religions focused on social
> relationships. The middle-eastern Judeo -Christian-Islam strain is concerned

Well, I would like to ask what "Chinese religions" you were referring to.
Chinese traditions, and superstition systems seem to encourage building
better social relationships. But there is only one Chinese religion,
Taoism, that consist of any system and structure enough to be labeled a
religion. Buddhism was in China and Chinese tradition for a long time, so
it also have a heavy influence in Chinese culture and tradition, but it was
not Chinese in origin.

> mostly with the outer world (Man shall have dominion over the animals...). The
> shamanistic practices are concerned with increasing personal power and
> personal use of energy. Hindu and Buddhism, from India, both address the
> ultimate nature of reality, which they relate to the inner self and its
> development (thus the focus on the self).
>
> So, why different teachings in different places? What is the story of the
> Michael Teachings through time? What was its role in ancient Egypt? Are there
> other types of teachings coming from the causal plane?
>
> Wouldn't it be great to snap in all the pieces in the jigsaw puzzle?
> Love, John C.

My "jigsaw puzzle" also include their structure of heaven and hell, of
reincarnation, of "higher plane beings" and deities, etc. And no, they
don't mix at all. When I came across Michael's Teachings, much of these
confusion were cleared. That was one of the reasons that, when I found
this Teaching, I thought "I found the answer to the universe". :-)

Well, needless to say, I was wrong. I also realize since then, that these
"structures", "pieces of jigsaw puzzles" are not really important. They
may be fun to play around, certainly a tickle to the intellectural and
reasoning centers of the brain, but do not really offer anything unless you
personally practise a system (whether of any of the religions, or of any
channeled material, or a "partially pieced up jigsaw puzzle" of your
creation). It will always remain a "tickle to the intellectual and
reasoning centers of the brain".

Regards.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WARNING: Fellow Christians and Urantians, The Michael of the
Holy Bible and the Michael of Urantia is not the agenda of this list.
This is a Pagan List , a discussion of a discarnate soul called Michael.
Read and participate at your own risk. +Ernie ^i^ +A+A+A+ ^i^
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:53:27 -0400
Subject: Damasco

Dear Michael Listers,

Below please find my responses to Dr. Damasco's letter to me regarding my responses to his ISIS post/publication. I do not include his words because he wanted them private to me. However... my responses are to him and to you all since in one of his comments he insults and demeans the whole list.

>

I am Mr. Kenneth Broom, not Ms.

>
>

I have not mutilated your email. Addressing the points that you published is a common way to respond to postings to an Internet List.

I neither take, nor desire, any credit whatsoever for your words.

The Michael disussion list is a list open to the public. There are many ways to reply to postings to a list of this type. One of the ways to reply is to quote the author of a post by breaking the post into relevant sections, and adding one's own comments after each section.

The lines of the quoted parts will be preceded at the far left by a ">" or some other symbol. The responses will "not" have that symbol. This way you can differentiate between the original author and someone's response to the author.

>
>
>

It is not an act of bastardization. On a public list I do not need your authorization. And I repeat... I did not change your material... I commented on it. That's what this list is for.

>
>
>

You can not sue me for quoting you to the same list that you posted to. The Michael list is for postings and sharings, not for publishing. If you do not wish to be quoted... then keep your writings off of the list. This is a medium for communication. It is not a medium for publishing. The two things are entirely different.

>
>

I have been awake since this list first got started. Where have you been?

>
>

I am not at all trying to impress anyone.

>
>
>

I am not all being used by any discarnate souls. The souls that I mostly communicate with are already well recognized.

I have done nothing illegitimate to your mail. Once you post to an "public" internet list the post is no longer just yours to claim.

>
>

I command no one to do anything.

>

I am an incarnate God fragment named Kenneth Broom. See the very end of all of my posts for more details. Please take the time to study what this list is about instead of defaming my character.

>

Yes. I have many many manners.

>
>

I am a graduate of the Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland, USA. I have Bachelor of Science Degree in Electrical Engineering.

>
>
>

I am a scholar in the Michael Teachings sense of the word.

I repeat... I have many many manners. Otherwise I would be trying to ignore you.

>
>
>

I do not feel that the Michael Listers need your forgiveness. They are not of lowly education. Nor am I worthy of your forgiveness or your reprimand. Forgiveness is more for the grace of the offended rather than for the perceived offender.

>
>

I do not want to materialize seven miles away, or even 14 feet away.

>

I never bluff, except when playing poker.

>
>

I do not ask for your belief.

>
>
>
>

Dr. Damasco, you are not reading my aura... it feels like your own ego entrapment in the lower astral that you are reading. I am not at all deceitful

>
>

Michael Entity uses the word "TAO" to refer to the unpersonalized first cause. This use does not require one to be a Taoist. I am part African, part Caucasian, and part Native American, and a tiny part Asian.

>
>

I do respect all religions, as long as they do not impose themselves on me. Your using the Michael Teachings List to publish and preach at us is to me an imposition.

>
>

They have the right to back-slide.

>
>

I am selling nothing. The List in question is a "discussion" list, not a "peddling" list.

>
>
>
>
>
>

Wrong on all accounts. If the Michael List is not to your liking then, please I beg of you, stop trying to convert/proselytize us. Please check out our understandings, and maybe compare them with yours, before you put us down as pagans, etc.

By the way: I am a student of the big beautiful blue Urantia Book, and I am a friend of Michael of Nebadon.

There are many many discarnates called Michael. Not just from your holy bible or from the Urantia Book.

>
>

It is irrelevant to me whether or not Michael is higher than ISIS.

>
>

I have never left school, and I am very civilised and ethical.

-----

It seems to me that you have been wonderfully gifted with a wonderful experience of higher knowledge and wisdom. Please use/wield this understanding with gentleness and consideration and respect for your readers. Especially when trying to communicate in a language foreign to you.

This harsh letter to me is an indication of your need to learn some communication skills.

Since you chose this to be a "Private" email I will not post your unpleasant message to the Michael Teachings List, although I am tempted to post only my responses.

It is I who forgive you for your intrusive zealotry. Please help us, not bang us in the head with your intrusiveness and your threats. We are trying our best to be as pleasant and forgiving as we can.

Back off a little (well maybe a lot), and please learn more about the Michael List before you start shooting at us.

God Bless You, and
Peace and Light to You and Yours,
Kenneth Broom, The Happy Scholar, INFP
   7th level Old Scholar/Server, Observation, Acceptance, Idealist,
   Higher Emotional & Higher Intellectual, Impatience/Stubbornness,
aka I.A.M. Research, Columbia, Maryland, USA

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 07:55:54 -0700
Subject: the truth?

I guess I had blissfully forgotten that many Christians consider the rest of the populated world including those who practice the major world religions of Buddhism, Hinduism and Taoism as simply pagans..... Thich Nhat Hanh did a beautiful book bridging some of these worlds in Living Buddha, Living Christ....
I think it may come a lot closer to the spirit of this list and the spirit of michael who has been all faiths....

Best to all Brin

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:13:29 -0400
Subject: RE: Truth about ERNIE

ERNIE,

This whole thing could have been avoided if you hadn't PRESUMED this "Michael" to be "yours". It states quite clearly in the description of the list where this Michael comes from.

It was your mistake. No one else's.

But in the tradition of what you call CHRISTIANITY, the hideous, old, angry BLAME game is being perpetuated by you.

Based on the defensiveness of your beliefs, the impact of differences on your psyche, and the intensity of your self-righteousness, I have seen no "lower vibration" on the list before this.

Your "evidence" was pointless as we do not find correlation between our perceptions and others to be offensive. Though your beliefs might be exclusive and judgmental, many Michael Students find this Teaching refreshing since it claims to be no more powerful than any one other person's own truths. It encourages recognition of everyone as vital, creative, and contributing... If you choose. That includes you.

By the way, the name Michael is just a name. It is not patented, Trademarked, or "owned" by any book or religion. But, to be consistent with your beliefs, I'm sure it is a grand experience to stand on your box and shout to the world a challenge over something so trivial and pointless in order to assert your imposition.

ROCK ON! Get it out of your system.

Though I am annoyed, I still think it's a great thing to have you on this planet to share your version of light (?), truth (?), and hope (?). Enjoy yourself, find security in your beliefs, and trust in your life. No one is going to take them away from you just because they don't agree. And more importantly, your beliefs are just as valid even if no one else believes them. There is no need to recruit or punish in order to justify or maintain your reality.

Be good.

The "pagan", dirt-worshipping, Homo,

Otterly

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:40:34 EDT
Subject: reservation/passion

Ott.,

Thank you for all the flatery and love. My heart is spoken for in this lifetime but if my wife makes one mistake I'm hoppin' right over to your house (if you'll have me).

Dr. Domasco,

Welcome! I see you are stimulating much discussion and love. Thank you for adding such passion to our conversations on the Universe. I hope that you speak kindly as your heart shows because I think that you have a lot of good things to teach and a lot of good things to learn, as myself.

Ken and Lynne,

I agree with what you were telling Dr. Domasco.

I must elaborate that when I am trapped in the negative pole of fear it is not as easy for me as just chosing love and joy because when I'm trapped in it I don't believe it. The only thing I can believe is what is in front of me. When I accept the pain for what it is then I seem to go into true assimilation. It takes forever. The longer I look at the clock the more impatient I get. But if I can distract myself from the martyrdom I am then surprised with all the zealousness and revelation so common to evangelists. Now at this point I'm very tempted to go into a priest-on-a-mission mode (aka PASSION).

I do best if I remember not to take the reigns and let the driver that showed up do the guiding. The only safe driving I do is driving back to Tao. Everytime I took my own joy-ride I got killed and killed others with me (karma). Yes I know it's OK. I only expanded the Universe with more experiences.

I am proud to be a Creator in the likeness of the big US who created me. Right now the only thing I want to create is my sure path home. I need to be inspired to find this path. I need to be inspired everytime I stray from this path. That inspiration is resignation of my ego and a passion for Tao.

I think that Dr. Damasco reminds me of a passion I once had and miss. If we continue our discussions (which are going beautifully) he might get that we really do appreciate having the good doctor around and that we all will gain in passion of Tao and he in reservation of self. In other words we all know that God's not just a screamer. Nor is God just a brow-beater. God is everything that we want. God is all things good and bad and may we find that magic distraction that alows us to step back and see the great generator that good and bad are.

Love always,

Dan

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:55:39 EDT
Subject: Re: Truth about MT list

In a message dated 98-07-27 10:26:58 EDT, Dr Damasco writes:

LORI,
      You wrote me a letter categorized PRIVATE MAIL.
   You publish your mail but remove my reply. Your actions are quite fair, for I
am a blithering idiot. I mean, if brains were lard, I couldn't grease a
skillet. So thank you for publically protecting me from exposing my true
nature. Here in my country, ever since I saw a sign that said "Wet Floor,"
and thus proceeded to take a piss, I have been deemed the poster child for
stupidity. Thank you for not allowing me to make the same mistake on this
list. Now if you could just save me from strangling myself with the cordless phone.
Even in court you are allowed to hear both sides, but in my case, having two
sides to the brain would be an unnecessary luxury. And yes, I twist
the truth by deleting your responses. Please understand that I cannot help
myself. I'm just a tackless boor, and for the sake of truth I am
publishing your replies and including UNsupported evidences
from your list. Once again, I only do this because I'm a stupid jerk, and I
know that when God shuts a door, he opens a window, and pisses onto my back.

Ernie - Blessed are the children, for when they are hungry, they will rip out
my entrails and eat me alive.

Wow, Ernie. I must comment that I truly respect your honesty and candor. Thank you for revealing another side of youself.

Glove and buttlight,
Dave ;-p

Alright, alright....so I changed a couple words. But you must admit that Ernie is kind of funny. I was actually enjoying his declamatory, fire & brimstone type pontifications. And it's not like he was sending useless spam with subject titles that said, "BEAUTIFUL WOMEN WITH HARDBODIES!!!!" Well, perhaps that wouldn't be entirely useless. ;-p Yes, I know Ted. I need to get layed immediately. You don't have to say it. ;-)

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:59:28 EDT
Subject: Re: RE: Truth about ERNIE

The "pagan", dirt-worshipping, Homo,

Otterly

ROFLMMFAO!!!!!! ;-p

Dave

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:30:45 -0400
Subject: RE: Ott's patheticism

MIKEY wrote:

Ott.,

Thank you for all the flatery and love. My heart is spoken for in this
lifetime but if my wife makes one mistake I'm hoppin' right over to your
house (if you'll have me).

And Ott just pouts like usual...

Thanks, though. You guys have the BEST attitudes and great senses of humour.

I came into this lifetime with 17 Mate Agreements. Since I used up 10 or so of them were before I even reached my mid 20's, I suppose I was ready for a rest. And NOW, after laying down the "law" and establishing my "boundaries", learning the value of Discrimination (my polar nemesis), I think my next mate may have to crawl through a maze of barbed-wire lovin' to get my lil' cutie pie heart.

Hey, all I know is dammit, I'M WORTH IT! Even my ex's are still hangin' around! My children... nowadays.

ANY way...

Some lucky person's future,
Otterly

Ps: we can tie this spew into the Michael Themes by having you all explore the topic of Mate Agreements...

and ME!!

DISCUSS!

hee hee

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:30:45 -0400
Subject: RE: Ott's patheticism

MIKEY wrote:

Ott.,

Thank you for all the flatery and love. My heart is spoken for in this
lifetime but if my wife makes one mistake I'm hoppin' right over to your
house (if you'll have me).

And Ott just pouts like usual...

Thanks, though. You guys have the BEST attitudes and great senses of humour.

I came into this lifetime with 17 Mate Agreements. Since I used up 10 or so of them were before I even reached my mid 20's, I suppose I was ready for a rest. And NOW, after laying down the "law" and establishing my "boundaries", learning the value of Discrimination (my polar nemesis), I think my next mate may have to crawl through a maze of barbed-wire lovin' to get my lil' cutie pie heart.

Hey, all I know is dammit, I'M WORTH IT! Even my ex's are still hangin' around! My children... nowadays.

ANY way...

Some lucky person's future,
Otterly

Ps: we can tie this spew into the Michael Themes by having you all explore the topic of Mate Agreements...

and ME!!

DISCUSS!

hee hee

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:33:55 -0400
Subject: ????????

In a message dated 98-07-27 11:13:30 EDT, Otterly writes:

The "pagan", dirt-worshipping, Homo,

Otterly

Then DAVE wrote:

ROFLMMFAO!!!!!! ;-p

And then Ott goes:

"Um, what?"

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:40:21 EDT
Subject: Role Validation?

There's an intriguing passage in Jane Robert's "Unknown Reality - V. 2" where Seth is discussing "psychic familes." These would be collectives that share similar interests and goals. At first I thought he was addressing what could be construed as the themes some of our various entities in the Michael system embrace, but as I continued to read, these "families" began to look like the roles from the Michael teachings. Now Seth describes NINE familes of consciousness, but with a leap of logic, I could place seven of them into Michael's categories of roles. Below I will present the actual (somewhat abridged) quotes from Seth and you can see for yourself if you can discern any correlation between the two teachings. If there is one, it would be another exciting validation to ponder.

SETH'S FAMILIES

SUMARI (Artisan) <----Dave's opinion
ILDA (Sage)
GRAMADA (King)
SUMAFI (Scholar)
ZULI (Warrior)
VOLD (Priest)
TUMOLD (Server)

SUMARI (Artisan?) - To provide the cultural, spiritual, and artistic heritage for the species.

"Sumari are practical in that they bring creative visions into physical reality, and try to live their lives accordingly. They are initiators, yet they make little attempt to preserve organizations. The Sumari abilities are highly creative ones. They are given to art, but in the broadest sense, they try to make an "art" of living, for example.
They are not happy on assembly lines. They like to play with details -- or use them for creative purposes. They often go from one job or profession to another for that reason. Generally, the Sumari have the capacity to reach out emotionally to others and emphathize. To some extent this feeling for humanity often serves as an impetus for creative work. Many of them also have a mystical sense of connection with nature. At the same time they can be relative isolationists, wanting to do their (creative) work in solitude. "

ILDA (Sage?) - To spread and exchange ideas.

"This family is composed of the "exchangers." They deal primarily in the great play of exchange and interchange of ideas, products, social and political concepts. They are travelers, carrying with them the ideas of one country to another, mixing cultures, religions, attitudes, political structures. Throughout the ages they have served as the spreaders of ideas, the assimilators. These are a lively, talkative, imaginative, usually likeable group of people. They are interested in the outsides of things, social mores, the marketplace, current popular religions or political ideas. They spread these from place to place. They are the seed-carriers, both literally and figuratively. A good many salesmen belong in this category. (Yet) they can be "con men" selling products supposed to have miraculous values, blinding the local populace with their airs.

GRAMADA (King?) - To found social systems.

"Specializes in organization. Sometimes its members follow immediately after a revolutionary social change. Their organizational tendencies are expressed in any area of life, however. They are behind art schools, for instance, though they may not be artistic themselves. They may set up colleges, although they may or may not be scholars. The founders of giant businesses often belong to this family, as do some politicians and statesmen. They know how to put other people's ideas together. They are often the founders of social systems. In most cases, your hospitals, schools, religions, as organizations, are initiated by and frequently maintained by this group. They are organiziers of energy, directed toward effective social structure. They usually set up fairly stable, fairly reasonable governments, schools, fraternities, yet they do not always initiate the ideas behind those structures.

SUMAFI (Scholar?) - To transmit "originality" through teaching.

This group often deals with teaching. They may be gifted in any field, but their primary interest is in passing on their knowledge or that of others. They are usually traditionalists, therefore, although they may be brilliant. In the Middle Ages they faithfully copied manuscripts. They are custodians in a way. Again, there are infinite variations. Many music or art teachers belong in this category, where the arts are taught with a love of excellence, a stress upon technique -- into which the artist, who is often a Sumari (although not always) can put his or her creativity.

ZULI (Warrior?) - To serve as physical, athletic models.

This group is involved mainly with the fulfillment of bodily activity. These are the athletes. In whatever field, they devote themselves to perfecting the capacities of the body, which in others usually lies latent. The vitality of creaturehood is demonstrated through the beauty, speed, elegance, and performance of the body itself. To some extent these people are perfectionists, and in their activities there are always hints of "super" achievement, as if physically the species tries to go beyond itself. The members of this group deal, then, in performance. They are physical doers. They are also lovers of beauty as it is corporally expressed. Historically, they often appeared at the beginnings of civilizations, where direct physical manipulation within the environment was of supreme importance.

TUMOLD (Server?) - To heal, regardless of individual occupations

This family is primarily devoted to healing. This does not mean that these people may not be creative, or organizers, or teachers, but the primary slant of their consciousness will be directed to healing. You might find them as doctors and nurses, while not hospital administrators. However, they may be psychics, social workers, psychologists, artists, or in the religions. They may work in flower shops. They may work on assembly lines, for that matter, but if so they will be healers by intent or temperment.

VOLD (Priest?) - To reform the status quo.

These people are primarily reformers. In conventional terms they may appear to be great activists and revolutionaries, or they may seem to be impractical dreamers. They will be possessed by an idea of change and alteration, and will feel, at least, driven or compelled to make that idea a reality. They perform a very creative service as a rule, for social and political organizations can often become stagnant, and no longer serve the purposes of the large masses of people involved. Members of this family may also initiate religious revolutions, of course. As a rule, however, they have one purpose in mind: to change the status quo in whatever the area of primary interest."

Dave :-)

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:46:19 -0500
Subject: Dr. Damasco

Hi all,

Adding my two cents worth of opinion and perspective to this very lively thread. My primary bias for the following remarks is my "synthesis process" (cardinal expression) overleaves: goal of acceptance, fifth level, old age, higher intellectual center.

I have been watching the unfolding of the episode with the Philippine Dr., but I am not caught up in it the way some of you seem to be. Reason is, I was deeply involved in a fundamentalist Christian sect for twenty years before being involved in "New Age" metaphysics for the last nearly twenty year. So, I have "been there and done that." Therefore I think I understand where Dr. Damasco is coming from more than most would. With a reinterpretation of words and a change of viewpoint, there is actually very little profound difference between the two factions. That is partly why I suggested you please be kind to Dr. Damasco, and why I would suggest to Dr. Damasco to likewise please be kind to us (with the usual Michael appendage, "if you so choose").

Over the years it has become increasingly obvious to me that most of the differences between the two factions are either semantic in nature (having to do with the definitions of their terms) or perspective in nature (having to do with the ordinal vs. cardinal point of view). At one time I fancied myself to be a bit of a Bible scholar, and my first attempt at writing a book was about Bible chronology and the Hebrew calendar. At any rate, I have not cracked the Bible much in the last twenty years, but every now and then I tumble to a realization that a particular Biblical verse has thus and such "metaphysical" meaning whereas it can also be given thus and such "fundamentalist" meaning. The founder of the Unity Christian church has written a lengthy book called the "Metaphysical Bible Dictionary," wherein he has catalogued exactly this kind of reinterpretation. It seems to me there are strata of understanding where things that are "true" (or "good") from one point of view are "false" (or "evil") from another point of view, and things that appear contradictory from one point of view are reconciled from another point of view. The cosmos is like that. In a cosmos derived from "consciousness", the cosmos IS "consciousness" making "distinctions" and assuming a "point of view" with respect to the distinction-- and nothing else. And the conscious Source of it all? -- quoting the Bible now -- "All is of God. All is in God. All is for God." I am not yet in the state of consciousness where there is no true or false or good or evil (positive vs. negative poles, chief feature vs. role, essence vs. ego, etc.) FOR ME -- I still grapple with these issues in my movement toward personal integrity in this lifetime. But I do not grapple much with the apparent dichotomy between fundamentalist Christianity and the New Age. Eventually, I would like to think that I could say what Gandhi said, "I am a Christian and a Jew and a Muslim and a Hindu and a Buddhist" -- and a New Ager. Although I hasten to add that I think there is just as much "baloney" in the New Age movement as there is in the Fundamentalist Christian movement. But then I hasten to add, it is "baloney" from MY point of view, and I acknowledge that it is NOT baloney from the point of view of the people who are involved (identified with) those factions as they move toward their integrity in the grand cosmic scheme of things.

We tend to think that our point of view is God's point of view. One of the biggest "errors" we commit is to confuse the strata of "personal truth" with "world truth" and/or "cosmic truth". (You will all no doubt recognize these as Michaelian terms.) Quoting the Bible again, "God sees not as man sees." As I have said before and will say again, the concept of "strata" (Threeness) is the "answer" to a lot of "questions" (Twoness). Gurdjieff called this the "Law Of Three". Michael called it "completing the monad". Our development as fragments consists of reconciling contradictions, "dialoguing" till we speak a "monologue" at the next higher strata. This might consist of reconciling the differences between Christian perceptions and metaphysical perceptions on the physical plane, or king fragments and warrior fragments on the astral plane. In any case, the discussion initiated by Dr. D. seems to be provoking many insights.

Phil

PS: Dr D. mentions Urantia and Theosophy. I have read a little of the Urantia book over the years and it never did grab me. Seems to me that Michael and Theosophy have a lot in common, and I often wonder what the connection is.

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:46:23 EDT
Subject: Re: ????????

In a message dated 98-07-27 13:45:47 EDT, Otterly writes:

Then DAVE wrote:

<< ROFLMMFAO!!!!!! ;-p >>

And then Ott goes:

"Um, what?"

Oh. Sorry. ;-p
ROFLMMFAO = Rolling on floor laughing my mother f-ing ass off.

Dave ;-)

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:05:32 -0400
Subject: RE: ????????

In a message dated 98-07-27 13:45:47 EDT, Dave writes:

Oh. Sorry. ;-p
ROFLMMFAO = Rolling on floor laughing my mother f-ing ass off.

Dave ;-)

Then ott smiles...

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:49:42 +0800
Subject: Re: Truth about MT list

I hope this "Doctor" is off the Michael Teachings List once and for all, but just in case he still reads this, here is my response.

Before I go into more detailed responses, I would like to state that this "Doctor" has a long way to learn about the true meaning of humility. The reason I say this is because he displays a monumental idol of self-importance and exhausts his energy defending it.

At 02:25 PM 7/27/98 -0000, Dr. E.L.Damasco wrote:

>LORI,
> You wrote me a letter categorized PRIVATE MAIL.
>You publish your mail but remove my reply. You are UNFAIR.
>Even in court you are allowed to hear both side. You twist
>the truth by deleting my response. For the sake of truth I am
>publishing my replies and including supporting evidences
>in your list. These are the information herewith :

After reading what Lori wrote, I do not see anything that is fair, or unfair. Lori was making a statement, not an apology, or defense, despite what you wrote to her. And after reading what you wrote to her, I find yourself in self-contradictory terms almost throughout the whole thing. Lori happens to be very nice not to point them out to you (either in private or in public) in her reply. In this post, I will point out some of them. The self-contradictions have nothing to do with whatever you are preaching, but everything to do with what you claim you are.

>At 09:01 AM 7/26/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>Ernie, Good day to you.
>>I would like to remind you that there are more appropriate places for
>>forwarding such messages as these, such as the "Spirit List" and the
>>"Spirit Communication List." I think you may also find, if you haven't
>>already, that the Michael Teachings List isn't a place where we like
>>being preached at either, but if you feel like sharing YOUR own thoughts
>>and feelings, that is fine and welcome in a mature manner, just like
>>everybody else's. Thank you for understanding.
>>
>>Blessings,
>>Lori

Ok, I'll just leave Lori's post as it is, lest somebody started yelling "unfair" again.

>My Reply :
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Dear Lon,
>
> You will agree with me if there is an error done in the
>computer. Unfortunately, this material was intended to Goddess
>and Spirit list. If ever the materials find its place to your home
>please delete. We have not reach a degree of machine perfection
>and from time to time we have this problem . Spiritweb have its
>own machine problem.

True enough. It is also possible for you to check your membership account and remove yourself from the Michael's Teachings List. Have you done so yet? From this particular post of yours, it seems that you have not. But in this very same post, you are putting the blame on SpiritWeb site (both computer and operators). Time to learn to be responsible for your own actions -- do something, rather than placing blames.

> I will try to rewrite the program so this problem be
>prevented. I will make sure that you will not receive any posting
>relevant or irrelevant.

Do, or do not. There is no try.

> I understand your requirements with the list. The list
>is a pagan list advocating, Taoism, Hinduism, Atheism, etc.

Nope. You have still misunderstood. It also seems that you have not bothered to really understand what Michael's Teachings is about. By itself, there is nothing wrong about not wanting to understand. But your above statement had already put a erroneous verdict on what Michael's Teaching is. Talk about being unfair, you are behaving exactly that way. Are you, then, in any position to say others are being unfair towards you?

>The michael your are talking about is a discarnate soul finding
>to express himself in the physical plane.

Wrong again, though this time it is slightly closer to truth. I would still say, close, but no cigar. I could go on to give you a better descriptions (or definition), but knowing that you are not interested, I will just proceed onwards.

>This is not the Michael
>of Holy Bible nor the Michael of Urantia Book. Many new
>members were at a lost because list members were talking
>about a different michael. I suggests that appropiate title and
>the word Michael be replaced in order to prevent misrepresentation
>and confusion.

No, the Michael's Teachings has nothing to do with St Michael, or Archangel Michael of Bibie or Urantia Book. On the other hand, this is something to do with the mailing list descriptions provided on SpiritWeb. The name, Michael, is such a common name that you cannot demand every Michael in the world to change their names simply because they are not the Saint Michael. Likewise, you are not in any position of authority to even suggest others to change their names for your own sake of clarity.

> Religion is an institution. The name Michael is associated
>with the Michael of the Holy Bible and Urantia Book.

Yes it is associated, but not exclusively so.

>It is always associated with christian religion.

Not so. I have several colleagues named Michael, and they are not associated with Christianity.

>Never in Taoism or Hinduism, or paganism. The name Michael, as the people
>thought is a christian Michael. Please make a clarification in your list info. Else,
>you are deceiving new members.

Such a "deception" only entails a certain initial confusion that can be easily clarified by members themselves. It is not a sin punishable by eternal damnation.

> I did not preach or proselyte. I just posted an information
>and I get an insult.

It does seem that you have no idea what "posting information" means. I would suggest you take time out and watch a movie on military operations. You will know what it means by "passing information" and "preach/proselyte". The difference is in the choice of words (the manner). What you have been doing on this list IS preaching, and proselytizing. It does not matter whether what "information you passed" is "real truth" or not. It is your manner that makes the difference. If you wonder what type of manner you should adopt, my suggestion is to seek help with a professional psychiatrist. The least the visit would help may be on your self-importance.

>If this could happen to me it could happen to anybody.

So far, in my experience in the Michael Teaching List, you are the first example.

>I didn't participate in the discussion.

That is one of the main source of your problems -- you don't listen. I can go on to say plenty of "as if"s, as if you know it all, as if you are the ultimate authority, a representative of God, as if your words is the ultimate truth, as if etc. But all the "as if"s will only make me sound petty. You will have to figure out why you are not listening.

>I know through your low vibration, you are something else.

Here, I am really laughing out loud!! hahahaha... I don't think you have a clear idea of "vibration", yet.

>You may continue in what you are doing and do not count on me. It is my prerogatives
>if I will participate or not. If I will subscribe or unsubscribe. This is
>a free planet. I want freedom as you do. Please respect my decision.

Lori was not forcing you off. I am not, either. I just hope you would leave, because I do not pretend to be able to change your ways/manner/attitude to be of any real benefit to this list.

> I do not want to sensationalized this differences. Please
>do not use the mail for public. ( You force me by being unfair.)

Heh, look who's talking.

> In the future, if we cross our path, I will face you. Name
>the forum, the place and the topic.

For anyone who is truly free, there is nothing to defend. There are plenty of reasons, but I will only say, in your context as a Christian, that defending Christianity is like defending that Almighty God -- if the God is really almighty, He/She can do the defending all by Himself/Herself. "Defending Christianity" is just a self-deception, for hiding the truth -- defending self-importance.

And this self-importance is not quite the same as self-esteem. Self-esteem has everything to do with confidence, while self-importance has everything to do with an illusive image constructed to represent "self".

J J Tan

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:28:39 -0700
Subject: Re: the truth?

Brin,

I too was startled for just a moment when I read that comment about being part of a "pagan" (or whatever you want to name "it") group. I just never thought of all of us that way. We sure looked fairly "human" to me when I have had the pleasure of meeting those on this list in person. Interesting fragments with differences in overleaves but all playing the same evolutionary game.....:) I am personally thankful for the Michael Teachings and having this list is one wonderful way of continuing to learn. I am also glad there are those who can put themselves out there and sometimes stir the pot. A 3rd level (thus I lurk a lot in my own mind) old sage in passion mode (oh I LOVE the excitement...) with a goal of growth (someone please stop the confusion). I think I would rather stay blissful...:Þ

Hugs (cause they are good for you)
Diane

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:16:24 -0500
Subject: Seth's personality types

Hi Dave,

I for one agree with every one of your Sethian and Michaelian personality type correlations. I will not say anything about how great minds think alike.

Phil

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:57:54 +0800
Subject: Re: Dr. Damasco

At 06:44 PM 7/27/98 -0000, Philip Wittmeyer wrote:

>I have been watching the unfolding of the episode with the Philippine Dr.,
>but I am not caught up in it the way some of you seem to be. Reason is, I
>was deeply involved in a fundamentalist Christian sect for twenty years
>before being involved in "New Age" metaphysics for the last nearly twenty
>year. So, I have "been there and done that." Therefore I think I
>understand where Dr. Damasco is coming from more than most would. With a
>reinterpretation of words and a change of viewpoint, there is actually very
>little profound difference between the two factions. That is partly why I
>suggested you please be kind to Dr. Damasco, and why I would suggest to Dr.
>Damasco to likewise please be kind to us (with the usual Michael appendage,
>"if you so choose").

What I am about to comment has no doubt passed through (and "by"? <g>) many's mind on this list. I may be duplicating some others' words but what the heck, I haven't written much lately... ;->

Aren't everything a matter of different interpretations and choices of words? :-) Even different perceptions? Isn't that part of the fun of being here? You have experienced 2 factions in this life time, (and more to come?) and I have experienced (only briefly, not in-depth like you) just a bit more than 3 different factions. And yes, more often than not, it's more about different interpretations, hence different theology, imaginations behind the interpretations, etc. etc. Thus far, I have written only 2 posts here with regard to this Dr. D, and in both posts I did not mention, even once, about "who is right"... well, perhaps a little, somewhere? The main points that I made has been about his own personality [flaws] as reflected by his own words. I guess we generally are all tolerant enough to accept a fundamentalist Christian views (here or anywhere?), but what really ticks us off is the attitude of preaching, and of being talked AT. The same can be said of several other responses I read.

Thus my comment is just that -- it doesn't seem to be a point of "whose view is right"... except, perhaps, the case of Dr. D. himself. I dare say one of the elements of Michael's Teachings that attracts us so is this lack of right/wrong polarity. At least it's the case for me. It's more an issue of attitudes, mannerism, and choice of words (aren't they all the same thing?). :-)

\end rambling/expressing/mind-dump

Regards.

J J Tan

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:13:48 -0700
Subject: Re: Truth about MT list

Ernie--I did not write you an e-mail titled "PRIVATE EMAIL," that is the one you replied to me, and you didn't send it to the list, and since it said "PRIVATE MAIL" I didn't forward it to the list, in fact, I filed it in the appropriate place.

You can ask Rene Mueller, the owner of Spiritweb, to prove it if you don't believe me, that I cannot remove e-mails posted to the list. I can ask him to do it, and so far, I have only done that to one post from last year, from a woman who asked me to remove her post that she wrote, because of the personal nature of its content. I'll do that for any author who asks me to remove their own post.

As for your other comments on who Michael is, you can read the list description and find out, I think it's pretty clear....Anyway, Michael is a pretty common name in the English language.

Well I better read the rest of the 25 e-mails in my inbox before I say more.....

Lori

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:51:02 -0700
Subject: Re: Seth's personality types

Dave, I thought your ideas on the correlations of Michael's roles and Seth's descriptions were really great. I would only switch the roles of Warrior and King, since it seems to me that the warriors are the ones building things, and the description of the athletes sounded more like Kings because they seemed to be wanting to master whatever they did. Well, just my opinion! BTW: I think Gurdjieff also had 9 descriptions, from what I'd heard.

--
Lori Tostado

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 98 19:59:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Dr. Damasco

Listmembers:

A short quote you may enjoy in light of our most interesting and lively discussion on the subject our most welcome guest, Dr. Damasco.

"And thus it becometh Clearly Evident that there remaineth naught but the Holy Zed and the Divine Aleph (whether of the Brotherhood of Light [+] or the Brotherhood of Darkness [-] it mattereth not for both Yin and Yang dwell in That Holy Qabbalistic Tree and -- as has oft been noted in ancient times -- 'all roads lead to Rome.'" V.H. Frater Caeruleus

In ever present gratitude for all that you are, have been and will be................

Ted

PS
If we need lightworkers to guide us through darkness, then wouldn't we need darkworkers to lead us through light?

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 21:12:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Light and Dark

Hi all,
    I asked Michael one time if a universe with just light in it and no darkness would be boring and they said yes. Surely it has been tried somewhere.
Mike H

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 01:13:49 EDT
Subject: Spank Dave

PRIVATE EMAIL (lori, do not forward)

Dave,

Apologize to Dr. Damasco right now. Fat for brains? Really! And stay away from Ott.. He's mine. There was a wet floor in my house after I read that post of yours. I only laugh thinking that you are describing me. Often I have been rescued from strangulation by a cordless phone.

JJ,

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Philbert,

It's great to see you on the board.

Dick,

Are you still about?

So nobody liked my passionate pontification? Oh well. I thought I was on to something.

Love,

Dan

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 02:26:59 EDT
Subject: Re: Seth's personality types

In a message dated 98-07-27 19:15:25 EDT, Phil writes:

Hi Dave,

I for one agree with every one of your Sethian and Michaelian personality
type correlations. I will not say anything about how great minds think
alike.

Well, I thought it offered some additional validation regarding the 7 roles, much like Dr. Newton's "Journey of the Soul" did for soul ages. Also, it would be intriguing if a Michael channel could inquiry about the information.

Dave

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 02:57:22 EDT
Subject: Re: RE: Ott's patheticism

In a message dated 98-07-27 13:39:30 EDT, Otterly writes:

I came into this lifetime with 17 Mate Agreements. Since I used up 10 or
so of them were before I even reached my mid 20's, I suppose I was ready for a rest.

17??? That's one thing I always forget to ask Michael when I have a session. Of course, I probably was scared that I'd have NO mate agreements. Actually, Michael DID identify two mate agreements that I knew, so I suppose there could have been more, or there is more, but talk about strike-out city....;-p Okay, admittedly I made it to home plate, but I lost the game 20-0. ;-)

Now days I much favor threesomes -- me, and Ben & Jerry's.

Dave ;-) - Could I have a mate agreement with my clarinet or my sax?

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:10:28 -0500
Subject: seven types

Hi Dave and y'all,

For your information, Theosophy also has seven fundamental personality types. (In fact, they are as big on sevenness as Michael is.) Their names are Ruler (king?), Teacher (priest?), Philanthropist (server?), Artist (sage?), Scientist (scholar?), Devotee (warrior?), and Craftsman (artisan?). I only saw the names listed in one book I read (published in 1956) and I did not pursue a full description in other Theosophical texts, so my correlation is tentative. There are so many similarities between Michael and Theosophy that I have often wondered what the connection was - other than the connection that truth is truth whoever the messenger might be.

Phil

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:08:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Jody this one's for you Babe.

Lori,
      thank you for posting the Maya poem. I think all women should have a copy of that in a place where they can see it everyday--hmm, maybe I'll put mine on the box where I keep all the bills ;)
      Anyway, I also wanted to say that as a "lurker" and new member, I am tired of the on-going saga with Dr. Damasco and I miss reading the postings that I joined for in the first place. I agree with the wise and often scathing retorts from the veterans on the list. Everyone has a right to their beliefs but I think that the good doctor (as well as the rest of us) would be happier if he took his beliefs to a place where he would have more in common with the other members. Do ya think from now on, if he continues, that we could just ignore him and carry on with the Michael discussions? I think we are adding fuel to his fire and he's thriving on it. Maybe if we stop responding he'll take his toys and go home. It's obvious we can't change his mind. It's also obvious that we can't kill him with kindness. So let's just leave him to stew in his own juices and get back to what we're really here for. I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, but I love this list and want to get back to Michael and not ernie!

Peace to all,
Beth

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 98 23:38:18 UT
Subject: RE: 2012

Kenneth wrote:

I feel that I'm no where near cycling off... at least not
before December of 2012, which is the end of the Mayan calendar.

I keep hearing about this 2012 thing - what do you know about it? Has anyone asked Michael about it? I've heard the world is going to end OR we're all going to make a big jump to the next vibrational level OR something . . .

Curious,
Jody
4th level Mature Scholar/Scholar ET, pragmatist, goal of growth, perserverance
mode, emotional part of intellectual center, CF of arrogance with a minor
second CF of impatience.

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 98 23:30:01 UT
Subject: RE: Light & dark & Christians

Ted said:

If we need lightworkers to guide us through darkness, then wouldn't
we need darkworkers to lead us through light?

Interesting thought! Seems to be working; look at all the thoughtful and thought-provoking posts one baby soul (gasp! dare I be so judgmental?) has brought forth. Of course, then there's Otterly's and Dave's little side thread . . . I won't presume to categorize THAT, just ROFL each time they post.

Irony here: I was not raised in the Christian religion, and vehement and unpleasant proselytizing by people who never seemed to me to be actually LIVING the precepts they preached only led me to reject the whole thing early on. Michael's explanation of Jesus as the Infinite Soul, teaching agape from the Messianic plane, has allowed me to "accept Jesus" in a way that would have been impossible for me before I found these teachings.

Of course, I "accepted" the Buddha, Lao Tse, and Sri Krishna at the same time, so I guess I'm still a pagan.
Jody

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 20:36:27 EDT
Subject: Re: RE: 2012

Dear Jody -- The best explanation of what happens in 2012 (or some nearby other date) that I have heard came from the channeled entity Lazaris, whom I have no great interest in. In the mid-80s I heard a Lazaris talk from 1979 called, I believe, "Message from California Consciousness". He said that the process we are going through is increasing exponentially or asymptotically approaching (like a curve going more and more vertical) a point that would be the end of time as we know it in 2012 or so (I don't recall exactly what description of the timing he gave.)

That would happen as, and because, our future becomes less and less predictable as we move forward. This has also been called shifting from 3rd dimensionality to 4th. We are less and less solidly creating the patterns of the past and expectations that the future will be like the past. In other words, change accelerates and builds on itself. By the end of old-style reality time in 2012 or whenever things would be changing so fast that we would have a very hard time predicting anything even a short time in the future. And so, according to Lazaris, in 2012 or whenever it is, we will reach a point where the 3D limiting realities of the past don't hold us back, so literally anything becomes possible, and therefore the mass conscious expectation of the future goes blank.

Note that this whole idea is a phenomenon in belief systems and consciousness, as opposed to a physics phenomenon -- though our physics belief systems will probably evolve to include that consciousness creates matter and energy and all the laws and phenomena of matter and energy, etc.

Note also that many ancient prophets and many religious systems, as well as channeled material from lots of different sources including extraterrestrials, all have been talking about this point in time happening sometime soon, whenever it exactly is, as if it were a predictable event. I don't know whether it's predictable in the precise way that orbits of heavenly bodies are, or whether it is predictable in a not-so exact way, like the expectation that children reach puberty in a certain age range, or both. The scenario for both is this: imagine that the movements of our solar system and even its galaxy move in grand cycles through fields of different energies of some non- physical sort (like the zodiac) and that we are approaching a known major point where a dimensional shift transformation or rapid evolution happens. Such a point is very highly interesting for all sorts of older souls and higher-plane beings to observe and participate in. So something is going to happen that's very transformational and unlike all history, but no one can know exactly what, and the predictions made have less value each year.

All the best, Ed

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:57:07 +1000
Subject: De Lurking

Hi everybody.

I would first like to say, how much I enjoy the discussions on this list. I have laughed, cried, and been enlightened by all of your postings, so I thank you all. I have been lurking for a considerable time and never felt the need to join in, till the good doctor made his appearance felt. I am sure everyone has had enough of this discussion, so please humour me.
As I see things one of the many tasks we need to do is to raise the vibration of the planet. Obviously a good starting point is with ourselves. If the good doctor is, as someone suggested a baby soul then he may be doing exactly what he designed. How else does his soul try to raise his concious vibration if not interacting with us I know this list is to discuss and advance ourselves, with the help of the Michael teachings, if we cannot help raise the vibration of one baby soul who obviously joined this list for a reason, how do we then get into the mainstream (referring to a previous discussion) and help the the many like the good doctor, What then is the Michael teachings all about, if not for us to understand, and pass on all the things that we have learnt.
I know that all of what he is saying seems tedious to us old souls, who would prefer to sit in the lounge chair (I am a third level old sage) because we have been there and done that. For that very reason is it not up to us to help speed up, and raise the vibration, because we have been there and done that.
I realize that this posting may be seen as a judgement also, please forgive me if this is so, as I am still in duality and have not the ability as yet to transpose myself into pure energy and agape.
I again thank you for all the enlightenment I have received on this list, I will now go back to lurking at my retreat in the hills of the Sunshine coast, in sunny Queensland, Australia.

Love Light, Bill M

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:38:56 +0800
Subject: RE: Truth about MT list

At 11:13 AM 7/27/98 -0400, you wrote:

>ERNIE,
>
>This whole thing could have been avoided if you hadn't PRESUMED this
>"Michael" to be "yours". It states quite clearly in the description of the
>list where this Michael comes from.

You are having an illusion ! How can I presumed this "Michael " be mine ??? You are making bad assumption.
DEUTORONOMY 6:2

>It was your mistake. No one else's.

DEUTORONOMY 6:16
What mistake ? Please define .

>But in the tradition of what you call CHRISTIANITY, the hideous, old, angry
>BLAME game is being perpetuated by you.

If my religion is Christianity and yours is Paganism, then you respect mine so I can respect yours. Why do you insist yours ? It is my right to have mine .
DEUTORONOMY 6:4-8

>Based on the defensiveness of your beliefs, the impact of differences on
>your psyche, and the intensity of your self-righteousness, I have seen no
>"lower vibration" on the list before this.

To demonstrate power and superiority,. U.S.A. drop the atomic bomb in Hirosima and Nagasaki

DEUTORONOMY 20:1

>Your "evidence" was pointless as we do not find correlation between our
>perceptions and others to be offensive. Though your beliefs might be
>exclusive and judgmental, many Michael Students find this Teaching
>refreshing since it claims to be no more powerful than any one other
>person's own truths. It encourages recognition of everyone as vital,
>creative, and contributing... If you choose. That includes you.

War in heaven was fought aeons of time. The battle of Archangel Michael against the fallen spirits.
f. 0====]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
+Elohim +Elohim +Elohim +A+A+A+

>By the way, the name Michael is just a name. It is not patented,
>Trademarked, or "owned" by any book or religion. But, to be consistent with
>your beliefs, I'm sure it is a grand experience to stand on your box and
>shout to the world a challenge over something so trivial and pointless in
>order to assert your imposition.

The name Michael is associated with great beings, with respect and holiness. You have used His name and twisted the truth of His personality. You have associated his name with discarnate entities and you don't deserve to use His name.
DEUTORONOMY 8:19-20

>ROCK ON! Get it out of your system.

DEUTORONOMY 7:23
Let the truth speak off to itself !!!
This is not Archangel Michael of the Holy Bible or Michael of Urantia you are talking about. This is the Discussion List of discarnate fallen entity. You are mediums and you use the word channel to make it palatable to deceive people. The mask of the devil !!!
DEUTORONOMY 28:15

>Though I am annoyed, I still think it's a great thing to have you on this
>planet to share your version of light (?), truth (?), and hope (?). Enjoy
>yourself, find security in your beliefs, and trust in your life. No one is
>going to take them away from you just because they don't agree. And more
>importantly, your beliefs are just as valid even if no one else believes
>them. There is no need to recruit or punish in order to justify or maintain
>your reality.

DEUTERONOMY 18:9

>The "pagan", dirt-worshipping, Homo,
>
>Otterly

Otterly, you are utterly example of your discarnate friend !!!

DEUTERONOMY 28:45-48
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
READ THE HOLY BIBLE , IT IS GOOD FOR HEALTH !!! +Ernie
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:08:06 +0800
Subject: Re:Risk and Reward

Kathy wrote on 27/7/98 3:48 am:

>Here also, that message came through. "Sages must
>take the stage without knowing their lines, Warriors

<the rest snipped>

Hey that's exactly how I feel all the time: not knowing the line.

J J Tan

=====
Put aside your concerns.
Silent your mind.
Stop the world.

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 03:58:54 EDT
Subject: Dr. Domasco

Dear Dr. Damasco:

You have my support when you share your personal inspirational stories. It's hard for me to read your attacks against others on this board as it's hard for me to hear others attack you. I'm suggesting that you take the first mature step and apologize to those you have slandered (maybe rightfully, maybe not). I am sure that you will find that once an apology is given then one will be reciprocated. I think it would be appropriate to begin with Otterly.

You are mediums and you use the word channel to make it
palatable to deceive people. The mask of the devil !!! ...

...Otterly, you are utterly example of your discarnate friend !!!

Dr. Damasco, please, turn to Matthew 7:1-5 and rejoice. Fill your spirit with the words of Jesus and ask yourself for forgiveness for Jesus has taught us to not judge each other. You are another aspect of Otterly and Otterly you. Do not judge Otterly for you condemn yourself. Love your neighbor like yourself (Because he's another manifestation of the same God to which we are all a part.)

Dr. Damasco, please, remember the story of the Prodigal Son. Consider if you will that I am the Prodigal Son. I'm the bad son who did all the bad things and spent all my money foolishly and returned to my creator not asking for forgiveness but to merely have the scraps off of his table. My Father welcomes me into his arms but it is you (the Good Son) who has a problem with God forgiving the sinner. After all, you did all the right things that you thought were expected of good sons. But God says I (the Bad Son) was lost but is now found. Live with it. The Good Son shall not judge. It is the exclusive task of the father (or the parent, the great parent, the Tao) to judge. and the father says come on home. Dinner's ready.

Dr. Domasco, please, turn to Mathew 25:31-46 and pray with me that we are not the goats for the goats failed to let the Stranger in. The Stranger is God. Jesus says that we are to treat the appearant slightest human being as God. That is the KEY, that MAGIC DOOR to eternal LOVE is loving each other.

I love you Dr. Damasco. I suggest that you love me and every other slightest example of a human being for that is how the passage to God goes. Not by exclusion or ostracism.

Dan

P.S.: The reason why I study the Michael teachings is because Michael explained the Adam and Eve trap of the snake and the tree of knowledge. Remember that the curse of the tree for humankind was that the fruit of the tree alllowed Adam and Eve to now the difference between good and evil. Once they ate the fruit they recognized that they were naked. (Genesis 3:5-7) Ask a Michael student about +/-/=. I'll learn something, too.

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:34:41 +0800
Subject: MORE INFO ABOUT MT LIST

===========================================
This List do not discuss the Michael of the Holy Bible or
the Michael of Urantia Book. This is a Pagan List, read
and participate at your own risk.
===========================================

Hi Listers,

      I don't mine your character assasination. I know some of you are astral assasins. Your thought form does not work with me. My mission in your list is not to preach, but to reveal the truth of MT list. I will entertain you with facts.

      Messages Yarbro's Book. Michael is a collective of 1050 discarnate soul individuals who finished up their lifetimes on the physical plane and waiting through mediums, bringing information from the life beyond to fuse with host humanity.

      According to Mike entity there are seven main types of persons on the planet. These are the seven essence roles: Artisan-Sage (expressive); Warrior-King (active); Server-Priest (inspirational); and Scholar (assimilative). One keeps the same role throughout the cycle of lives and develops this essence to the mastery level.

      Sit back and read the information.

      In previous info, I have identified the MT list as a pagan list.

      This time who is that entity michael used by the lister and medium.

----------------------------------
Michael-teachings-l/1998-07-28/2420 (digest-marker)
Kenneth Broom said:

There are many many discarnates called Michael.
Michael Entity uses the word "TAO" to refer to the unpersonalized first cause.
----------------------------------
Post-No.: michael-teachings-l/1998-07-28/2422 (digest-marker)
Otterly Blue said :

By the way, the name Michael is just a name.
-----------------------------------
Post-No.: michael-teachings-l/1998-06-10/2127 (digest-marker)
The Dave broadcasting system....

Blah, blah, blah, blah.........blah, blah, blah....
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah......and

Blah, blah, blah, balh, blah.........and more blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah.............kkduurmckxuysbbeoridygngkhoisyxgnnbkdksuywgfbfnkoxisuwhnfmcoc
ivffgogojjmdcfdklglgiicjcnmktgohgofijdnemwlkofijvjmsdkdlrioigjjdkslsojfjkksiwu
iruthgmdsdorifjmkdlspfogkm,sls;qwpweorigjvmsx,slwoeotjgndksls;peorkfmfmdm,slal
woiefjmm,slspwoerjfmd,ls;psoofmd,lsspoeijfmllwpwokfmd,lspwpojgmd,lz;pqpworgbcm
,x,kseroopdkmgklwpworkjsmkwke9485ujmflslsl003jmdk,s;aslak HHYy KI
kldkkskwijfslwekejkejekeklelkweowollsls

KKujjdfkeiwjndmskaiwiejdmkskasiiwjem,sskliijnv
,sqwowirrhjfnmskaloqwnmms,lqpwoirjfnmsksloioeijmfkldlsowoeokkfldldlldoigkkdkls
lwlkfjkdjkkdkldloiogjdjksklslslrff.
Dave (laugh...more laugh, you are funny.)
------------------------------------------
Post-No.: michael-teachings-l/1998-06-12/2140 (digest-marker)
Kenneth Broom said:

Hi, folks.
Otterly Blue has a channeling(medium) from Michael about the stages of the
4th internal monad at his web site

-------------------------------------------
Post-No.: michael-teachings-l/1998-06-13/2151 (digest-marker)
Philip Wittmeyer said:

Howdy folks,
I am not sure about humanity in general - since I have not met everyone
and I am not a channel - but I have been using the Ouija board to get
Overleaves on people since 1981.
--------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:24:55 -0400
Subject: Ernie's world

Oh, now I really have to delurk for a moment. Alright, you guys & gals,

I want the names of every one of you "astral assassins" right now.

(Finding it hard to keep a straight face much longer.)

Gina

Mnemosyne - the Greek Goddess of Memory - as in, what was I supposed to be doing this life, and where did I put my car keys?

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:32:51 -0400
Subject: RE: Truth about [otterly]

Otterly had written:

>The "pagan", dirt-worshipping, Homo,
>
>Otterly

And then the freaked out "Doctor" wagged his finger while thumping his bible and almost fell off his little crate shouting:

Otterly, you are utterly example of your discarnate friend !!!

And Otterly sees that the Good Doctor is right!

How could I have been so blind? The love emanating from this almost-English-speaking prophet swaths me like no other!

As a Michael Channel, I have sinned no other greater sin. Let theses scales that hath wrought havoc upon my life and the planet be fallen, not unlike the devil I have let into my body!

Please Doctor, your words are more uplifting, gentle, and loving than any evil spirit's. And you MUST have the cornerstone of TRUTH because your choppy words manage somehow to get the light through.

Oh, wondrous Doctor, now I see...

YOU are my Mate Agreement!

"DEUTER-" THIS!

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.......

(PS: oh so much GOOD TRUTH was snipped, but I trust you will have read THE DOCTOR'S post by now. I would LOVE to ignore his posts, but this was for fun. I, myself, PROMISE no more responses/reactions to this obvious saint.)

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:52:21 -0400
Subject: Ernie's Overleaves and Commentaries on same

per Kenneth:
------------
The data below came in very strong due to the influence that Dr. Damasco has already had on the Michael Teachings List. I'd really like to hear more from some other listers regarding their experience of Ernie's overleaves and life path.

per Michael
-----------
"6th level Baby Priest, in the Power Mode, with a Goal of Domination, the Attitude of a Cynic, Emotional Part of the Emotional Center, Chief Feature of Arrogance.

"Prior to incarnation he had considered a Goal of Growth, but felt he couldn't move fast enough with that Goal and so chose Domination, feeling the kind of responses these choices would bring from human life at this point in time.

"He chose Power Mode for the same reason.

"His attitude of Cynic was purposely chosen to abrade against ideas other than what he considers to be his truth.

"His emotional centering and emotional part provides him a "huge" fund of energy to keep him on his chosen path...

"especially with a CF of Arrogance which is manifest from a human fear of not being appreciated, which he also knew was going to happen, but no longer realizes at this point in physical time and space.

"His many formal Degrees were his attempts at discovering the "rules" of life during this period of space and time.

"He also knew (pre-incarnationally) that the growth potential of this space and time is greater than almost anywhere else in the galaxy of galaxies. and so chose to incarnate when he did in order to play a catch-up game so to speak.

"His life task is to exercise his overleaves to the fullest extent possible short of causing someone to lethally abrade his physical body. <a Michael chuckle>

"Many on this list have already noticed that his mere existence is giving many fragments practice in tolerance, agape, and especially, first hand (or first email) experience with a Baby soul. Most Old Soul fragments have not personally experienced Baby Soul energies since they themselves were Young souls.

"A great learning opportunity for all involved. Choosing to ask growth-promoting questions of Dr. Damasco as well as just making statements may prove to be very interesting.

"an added note: Most Baby Souls would normally have very little interest in joining, and staying with, such a list as this one."

Peace and Light to You and Yours,
Kenneth Broom, The Happy Scholar, INFP
   7th level Old Scholar/Server, Observation, Acceptance, Idealist,
   Higher Emotional & Higher Intellectual, Impatience/Stubbornness,
aka I.A.M. Research, Columbia, Maryland, USA

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:20:17 EDT
Subject: Re: Soul families, Elias or Seth? 2

Dear Dave -- In AOL's New Age boards, in Spirit there's one called "Thoughts of Elias" which, if you go back a few months, has a whole string of posts that someone copied over from Elias's transcripts. They have the same family names as Seth and similar description (I guess, I only know about Seth second hand).

My first thought when I was reading about these is it's a cadre or entity thing, not roles. It sounded more like the subtle flavors of the supposed differences between entity groups. JP's new material (which I posted last fall about) describes the enities of a cadre as being colors from 1 = red up to 7 = violet. Also, Elias said somewhere that everyone present at some session were in one of these families, and that would be unlikely with roles. Nothing in their stuff, the little bit I read, implies anything about roles or overleaves, either. If I had time, I would go deeper into checking out Elias, it looks very good.

All the best, Ed

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:33:59 -0700
Subject: Re: Ernie's Overleaves and Commentaries on same

Kenneth,

Very enlightening!!!!! Thanks. Now I have one question that has been forming in my brain for a couple of days. It has to do with the "near-death experience". There seems to be a lot of this going on over the last 10 years or so, or maybe just lots more being written about it. I'm curious if Michael might give us some insight in to what this is all about. If the good Dr actually had a NDE as he says and he is a baby soul... is this a phenomena for this level of soul?? I found it interesting when reading Dr Newton's book "The Journey of Your Soul" that I got a sense of validation for not only the Michael Teachings but also a better understanding of what the NDE is about. Please, anyone on the list.... feel free to jump in here and give me your thoughts, ideas or opinions. Something is nudging my brain and you all might help shift what ever is stuck...:) Thanks

Hugs (cause touching is fun)
Diane
3rd level old Sage in stuck mode (thank heavens for my spiritualist attitude, at least I'm stuck with a smile..:)

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:02:11 EDT
Subject: NDEs

Dear Diane -- I would theorize that one's essence is in charge and orchestrates whatever phenomena the personality experiences in the NDE. That would include whatever guides or angels appear and what they communicate. All this is harmoniously coordinated with and by the essence.

I think it would be really interesting to see how the NDE phenomena correlate with soul ages and with roles. I get the impression that the NDE people we hear of most often are priests and often very zealous ones; zealous being the negative pole and fear being involved because the message is something about scary earth changes or social destruction that urgently has to be disseminated to others.

All the best, Ed

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:42:27 EDT
Subject: Re: Soul families, Elias or Seth? 2

In a message dated 98-07-29 11:23:56 EDT, Ed writes:

My first thought when I was reading about these is it's a cadre or entity
thing, not roles. It sounded more like the subtle flavors of the supposed
differences between entity groups. JP's new material (which I posted last
fall about) describes the enities of a cadre as being colors from 1 = red up to 7 =
violet. Also, Elias said somewhere that everyone present at some session
were in one of these families, and that would be unlikely with roles. Nothing in
their stuff, the little bit I read, implies anything about roles or overleaves, either.
If I had time, I would go deeper into checking out Elias, it looks very good.

Yep...that was my original thought as well. But the odd thing is that Seth also mentioned that everyone at his session that day were from the same family. This also made me entertain the notion that this would be unlikely in roles, but there's no information as to how large Jane's groups were, so I couldn't toss the idea based on that information. Besides, Seth's families still sound quite similiar to Michael's role description. However, I would have no real argument if they turned out to be entities or cadres. What does bother me is that from what you've related to me about Elias, the transcript sounds almost too identical. I'm wondering if Elias is fradulent, and stealing from some of the lesser-known passages in Jane Robert's books. "Unknown Reality Vol 2" is one of her less popular entires, and not nearly as widely read.

Dave

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:10:19 EDT
Subject: Re: Ernie's Overleaves and Commentaries on same

In a message dated 98-07-29 09:52:52 EDT, Ken writes:

The data below came in very strong due to the influence that Dr. Damasco
has already had on the Michael Teachings List. I'd really like to hear more from some other
listers regarding their experience of Ernie's overleaves and life path.

I'm certainly not contesting Ken's overleaves regarding Dr.Damasco, and I have a hunch that they are probably very accurate, but we should not be quick to assume that an interest in religion represents an instant indicator of being a baby soul. Personally, I know an artisan/sage that was channeled as a late level mature, who is just as overzealous as our good doctor, to the point that she changed her name to a biblical one, and cut all ties with her parents because they are heathen. Also, an ex-girlfriend, who was channeled as early old, is currently a born-again Christian.

Dave ;-)

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:38:02 EDT
Subject: Re: Ernie's Overleaves and Commentaries on same

In a message dated 98-07-29 13:11:34 EDT, Dave writes:

I'm certainly not contesting Ken's overleaves regarding Dr.Damasco, and I
have a hunch that they are probably very accurate, but we should not be quick to
assume that an interest in religion represents an instant indicator of being
a baby soul.

I felt that the indicator of soul age was more the feeling of wild fear and paranoia that runs through the Dr.s posts. He retaliates when, often, there has been no attack. There is also no emotional content to the information, just rhetoric. My mother is an late mature, born-again, fundamentalist, christian, who "talks" to Jesus (we do NOT use the word channel). She is completely unable to see any other path as valid. The difference between her and the good Dr. is that she will listen, before she rejects opposing views and does so with great love and care, and maintains her views without attacking others'.

Also, re your Elias/Seth information, my mother (talking to Jesus) showed me a list of "gifts of the spirit" that the Lord had given her. This was about 1990. There were seven "gifts"; the gift of "teaching", the gift of "leadership", the gift of "service, the gift of "healing", etc., and I didn't pay a lot of attention at the time. When I read MFM several years later I sat around in shock for awhile when I realized finally where I 'd heard this information before. Heck, mom even had the negative and positive poles listed ( I made her dig all that stuff out in 1996).

So, I know that mom never read Seth or Elias or anything other than her KJV bible [she has developed an affinity for the Edgar Cayce information in the last few years]. I think that these roles are truly, as the Michaels have said, universal truths and available for interpretation and dissemination by which ever entity has the need to do so, when asked. Plagerism is always possible but I think that this comes down to us reading the info and using discernment/validation where it's concerned.

Kath.

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:26:01 -0500
Subject: 2012 AD

Hi gang,

This prophecy thing is another realm of experience where I can say, "been there, done that." That fundamentalist Christian church that I formerly participated in was real big on prophecy. It was fun and exciting at the time to believe that I knew the future. I do not regret it for a moment. They predicted the second coming of Jesus Christ and the beginning of the Millenium for 1975. They predicted a lot of other things based on interpretations of Bible prophecy and chronology that never came to pass. To some extend back in those days I planned my life around those predictions, and I am still experiencing negative consequences from choices made then. For this reason, I tend to roll my eyes and sigh and say, "there they go again" when the subject of prophecy comes up. Now, I admit I have become prejudiced against prophecy because of former negative experiences, but even knowing that I have this bias I still refuse to pay much attentions to predictions from any source -- Biblical, Mayan, Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, Gordon Michael Scallion, etc. etc. - especially the fear based predictions of the apocalyptic, gloom and doom variety. Michael and Seth both shy away from prophesying of any kind. To me, now, it seems like one of the many enthrallments of maya to get involved in the prophecy thing. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I hasten to add. Maya is a wonderful tool for learning. We usually experience the negative pole of something before we experience the positive pole, on our way to the neutral zone at the next higher strata -- only to get knocked into the negative pole of that strata, etc. etc. on our way back to Tao.

However, another channeled entity - and one that I respect a great deal - "RA" (early eighties vintage), also predicted interesting things for the year 2012, but I did not pay too much attention to it because of my prejudice. It was something about a "harvest" of souls which have reached a certain level of "clarification" in the "ray" (strata) of their spiritual development. It was said that they would graduate from "third density" to "fourth density". If there is any validity to this date and this phenomenon, then in my opinion it correlates with Michael's recent pronouncements on the transition of the planetary consciousness from predominantly young soul (third soul age) perception to predominantly mature soul (fourth soul age) perception. I also vaguely remember seeing speculation somewhere in the Michael community about the appearance of a transcendental soul at this time. Who knows.

The consensus teaching in the perennial philosophy is that if you choose to "be here now", you will experience the least amount of discomfort with respect to past, present and future events. If you choose not to "be here now" - "centered," in the "flow" -- you will experience something else, namely, like careening down the racetrack of life bouncing off the guardrails on both sides. There are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. Far be it from me to spoil anybody's fun or learning. After all, the entire cosmos of experiential differentiation is a displacement from the absolutely neutral perspective of Tao, the background against which all manifestation appears.

Phil

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:29:35 EDT
Subject: Elias or Seth? 3

Dear Dave -- At the Elias website they have over 200 lengthy transcripts of taped group sessions. I read one they recommend as a good one to start with. My impression is that the channel is pretty good (and so is the group) and the entity Elias is related to or close to Seth in some way, which I'm sure they explain somewhere but I didn't take the time to look for it. Their point of view sounds pretty similar.

Could be that Elias and Seth are different fragments, or groups of them, of the same entity group, like the different fragments and groups of them that work with Michael channels.

Also, it occurs to me that the Sumari and other named "families" might even be cadres among a group of "student cadres".

All the best, Ed

In a message dated 98-07-29 12:42:27 EDT, you write:

Yep...that was my original thought as well. But the odd thing is that Seth
also mentioned that everyone at his session that day were from the same
family. This also made me entertain the notion that this would be unlikely in
roles, but there's no information as to how large Jane's groups were, so I
couldn't toss the idea based on that information. Besides, Seth's families
still sound quite similiar to Michael's role description. However, I would
have no real argument if they turned out to be entities or cadres. What does
bother me is that from what you've related to me about Elias, the transcript
sounds almost too identical. I'm wondering if Elias is fradulent, and
stealing from some of the lesser-known passages in Jane Robert's books.
"Unknown Reality Vol 2" is one of her less popular entires, and not nearly as
widely read.

Dave

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:33:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Ernie's Overleaves and Commentaries on same

Diane wrote:

> Kenneth,
>
> Very enlightening!!!!! Thanks. Now I have one question that has been
> forming in my brain for a couple of days. It has to do with the "near-death
> experience". There seems to be a lot of this going on over the last 10
> years or so, or maybe just lots more being written about it.

per Kenneth:
------------
There are more NDE's happening primarily because medical technology and techniques have advanced to the point where maintaining and repairing damaged physical bodies is far advanced from where it used to be. Souls that otherwise would have been lost to the physical are finding that their physical vehicle can be repaired sufficiently for them to re-enter again. Many retain the memory of their NDE, but many also do not.

> I'm curious if Michael might give us some insight in to what this is all about. If the
> good Dr actually had a NDE as he says and he is a baby soul... is this a
> phenomena for this level of soul??

per Kenneth:
------------
Retaining memory of an NDE is fairly frequent among those whose brain patterns and previous imprinting allow for it. For those whose belief systems normally do not permit such experiences the NDE can be remembered although in a somewhat to very distorted form.

The good doctor did have an NDE, but his memory of it is somewhat distorted by his fundamental beliefs, and still is.

Any soul level or age can have an NDE.

-----

For what it's worth: the tunnel most NDE'ers say they traverse is a short cut through the lower astral level to the middle and upper astral realms. Those NDE'ers that had no tunnel, and no light at the end, have had horrible NDE experiences that went into the lower astral level where the lower astral/emotional energies hang out. This is the living hell that many talk about.

Peace and Light to You and Yours,
Kenneth Broom, The Happy Scholar, INFP
   7th level Old Scholar/Server, Observation, Acceptance, Idealist,
   Higher Emotional & Higher Intellectual, Impatience/Stubbornness,
aka I.A.M. Research, Columbia, Maryland, USA

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:43:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Ernie's world

Okay Gina,

    I confess. You found me out, so I'm also quiting the astral assassination squad. Here are my astral bullets, my astral assassin keychain and my astral decoder ring.

John M
O4 Sage/Scholar ET

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:58:28 -0600
Subject: re: Ernie's overleaves

Another lurker comes forth.

I've been greatly entertained by the Dr. Damasco drama to the point that I've been ROTFL a couple times - the post where Ken replied to invisible comments from the Dr. was as funny as it gets, and the ongoing debate over who owns the name Michael is right up there. (Maybe we should call this the Mike-Teachings list so we don't aggravate the archangels . . .?)

Along with Ken, though, I've been trying to figure the guy out. I was doing it from my own perspective instead of through his overleaves, but here are the impressions I got:

This is a very tiny, embryonic fragment shouting very loud in order to reassure himself of his own power by showing he can disrupt something. I am not at all sure he believes what he is saying because I don't know if he is familiar with the inner feeling of "belief." What's it like when you know inside that something is right? He doesn't understand that question. He is only able, at this stage of his life, to quote outside sources.

I am not sure he knows how to use his intellect as a tool of discovery yet. I think that comes after you learn to use it as a tool of debate by bumping it up against somebody else's intellect. This was all very interesting to me because I hadn't really stopped to try and feel my way into the experience of living at such an embryonic level. There must be a huge sense of confusion masked by a lot of rules and dogma intended to give form to the formless.

The man is not without humor, which is a big credit.

I was trying to figure out what we might say or do to get him to stretch a bit. It came to me that a missing piece might become visible if we asked him who he was. Dr. Damasco, are you old or young? What is your job? Do you have a family? Your English is quite good - have you told us where you've studied? What is your goal in life and how does participating in this list further it?

I don't really think this'll work, but it was good for me to ponder it. Ranting from a faceless source is boring, but ranting from somebody you know might be interesting if it helps fill out a bigger picture. It also might feel different to Dr. D if he tried to answer these questions, but I'm not holding my breath. (C'mon, it's a challenge . . .)

I am still stumped as to why this guy ended up on the Michael list. Usually when you're raging at infidels, it's either a) to convert them, or b) to gain points with your own side. Since a) is highly unlikely, and as far as I know not a lot of Dr. Damasco's co-believers are reading this list, I can't see why he's writing us all these letters. It occurred to me that he thinks Heaven might be seeing his efforts and awarding him points for trying.

(Rest assured, Heaven sees, and you're getting points :-)

Really, though, I think he's just having a jolly good time out there. It probably feels great to be a man on a mission.
- - - - - - -
Glad I've finally decided to join the discussion -

Mary P.
(Michael student since the mid-80s, 7th level Old Artisan, Spiritualist in
Acceptance through Perseverance. Intellectual part of emotional center, or
at least that was the case 15 years ago.)

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:08:50 -0400
Subject: DAVE & KEN & the devil

In a message dated 98-07-29 09:52:52 EDT, Dave writes:

Ken wrote:

<< The data below came in very strong due to the influence that Dr. Damasco
has already had on the Michael Teachings List. I'd really like to hear more from some other
listers regarding their experience of Ernie's overleaves and life path. >>

have a hunch that they are probably very accurate, but we should not be quick to
assume that an interest in religion represents an instant indicator of being
a baby soul. Personally, I know an artisan/sage that was channeled as a late
level mature, who is just as overzealous as our good doctor, to the point
that she changed her name to a biblical one, and cut all ties with her parents
because they are heathen. Also, an ex-girlfriend, who was channeled as
early old, is currently a born-again Christian.

Dave ;-)

Otterly writes:

I would have to agree with Dave (sorry Dave). I thought that was a little too convenient. And Michael? Chuckling?

The Idealistic Skeptic,
Otterly

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:21:20 -0400
Subject: Re: DAVE & KEN & the devil

Otterly writes:

> I would have to agree with Dave (sorry Dave). I thought that was a little
> too convenient. And Michael? Chuckling?

Actually, I can "feel" the Michael's energies when they smile or chuckle. It is a feeling. I do not "see" them smile, nor do I "hear" them chuckle. They also make puns too. They are not at all lacking in humor.

--
Peace and Light to You and Yours,
Kenneth Broom, The Happy Scholar, INFP
   7th level Old Scholar/Server, Observation, Acceptance, Idealist,
   Higher Emotional & Higher Intellectual, Impatience/Stubbornness,
aka I.A.M. Research, Columbia, Maryland, USA

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 98 14:17:36 -0700
Subject: Re: Ott's patheticism

>In a message dated 98-07-27 13:39:30 EDT, Otterly writes:
>
> << I came into this lifetime with 17 Mate Agreements. Since I used up 10 or so
> of them were before I even reached my mid 20's, I suppose I was ready for a
> rest. >>
>
>17??? That's one thing I always forget to ask Michael when I have a session.
>Of course, I probably was scared that I'd have NO mate agreements. Actually,
>Michael DID identify two mate agreements that I knew, so I suppose there
>could have been more, or there is more, but talk about strike-out city....;-p
>Okay, admittedly I made it to home plate, but I lost the game 20-0. ;-)
>
>Now days I much favor threesomes -- me, and Ben & Jerry's.
>
>Dave ;-) - Could I have a mate agreement with my clarinet or my sax?

Dave,

You may not want to limit yourself this way. Sex is an important part of life and there is no reason you shouldn't enjoy a reasonable amount (speaking from the intellectual center here).

You can actively create situations in your life that will attract the love you need regardless of any mating agreements you think you may or may not have.

One of the messages that has been coming through from the "Energy I Give the Name Michael" is that we are coming to a place where we no longer have the option of not consciously creating our reality. You may want to try practising creating a mating agreement for yourself - I can recommend some techniques. I'm sure your essence won't mind a bit especially since you would be much happier squeezing up close to your newly beloved. Why not? Your happiness is essence's happiness.

Anyway I didn't know Ben & Jerry were that kinky, or, are they into adult films now?

Possibly there is someone on this list who lives in your area who would like to at least share some ice cream with you and enjoy your wit and enthusiasm for music. And even a wet toungue in your ear sans helados. Pray, come forward oh naughty one!

Yours -- Ted

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:45:32 -0400
Subject: Chuckles the Channel

Kenneth Broom writes:

Actually, I can "feel" the Michael's energies when they smile or chuckle. It
is a feeling. I do not "see" them smile, nor do I "hear" them chuckle. They also make puns
too. They are not at all lacking in humor.

Then Otterly writes:

I gotta walk on eggshells here, because I would never want to insult another person who is channeling, regardless of style, source, or whatever. I really mean it. I want to clear that up that I was only questioning,... I'll explain:

I've been channeling Michael now for ten years, been exposed to Michael through several other channels, and there is a consistency that makes me feel amazed, in awe of the reality of this entity. Also, there is a certain "feeling" I've grown to know as Michael in my own channeling as well as others. SOMETIMES, a person claiming to channel Michael will make my "Uh-Oh" light go off. It doesn't "look" like Michael, doesn't "feel" like Michael, but the words are familiar. I usually chalk that up to a person channeling "themselves" with a Michael Terminology Filter, perhaps.

This is my own issue and I would like to playfully approach this. I think it's time. We can move on from the Doctor, and examine each other! That'll be fun.

Because of my clientele, I am aware of the affects of "bad channeling" coming from certain sources, and the impact it can have on individuals who trust it right off just because it is in a Michael Package. It's a mess to deal with. It's not so much the "bad channeling" that is the mess, but the insistence from the channel that his/her channeling is in fact absolutely correct and that you, the "non-channel" basically have no clue. The insistence of the channeled information being correct against your own intuition and perceptions is something I cannot relate to.

So, with that said, I had my little hairs stand up when I read the channeling; not because it was "bad", but because of the seeming infusion of personality that I do not recognize as Michael's energy (per my experience, of course), the convenience of the Doctor's Overleaves (I have found the Overleaves a little more complex than that, myself. I see a couple of others have, too, based on some follow-up posts) and the authoritative stance in which it was presented (that it was from Michael, "so strongly", and not your own observations kicking in [possibly?]...)

See? As a Michael Channel, and probably because of my own Self-Dep' I have resisted placing any responses from Michael through me on the list for fear of the same criticism. You know,... who's this Otterly Blue, comin' in here spewing channeling all over the place AGAINST what Michael says through the long-time lister(s). So, rather than create a rift, or confusion, I've laid low and took it out on the Christians (hee hee, just kidding).

It's really a dilemma. I'm serious. It's very frustrating as channels to look around and "feel" HONESTLY where Michael is and isn't. Who could ever be an authority on that? No one. It's all up to each of us.

I'm sorry I knocked it, that was inappropriate; I was caught up in the fun of it, and my mind slips into "everything is safe and beautiful and you can say anything you want", blah blah blah... but maybe it was insulting. I apologize for that, if it was. I'm a little embarrassed.

If it was taken in good light, then I ask now, "How do all of you deal, internally, externally, with the channeling you receive through us so-called Michael Channels? How do you discern? We could all easily be delusional, or quacks, or just naive...? I am open to any and all criticism in open forum of the channeling I've placed on my site (more to come, by the way), or that some of you have gotten personally.

No one really asks these questions. But I will ask that we all just skip the whole thing if there is going to be a lot of wishy washy answers and evasion of the question. I hate that. I really want to know.

In my case, I roll my eyes, basically. I just wish I could point and say, "what the HELL?" (Obviously, sometimes I do...) I WANT to be able to say who I feel is an accurate, honest, and humble channel and who is not. But I will never be able to do this because I am not the authority, only in my own life, and it is all so subjective anyway. I can disregard whatever I want when it comes to accepting channeling.

But it's not that easy for me all the time, since I am in a public position, and have to deal with the fallout of another channel's behaviour. It's invariably the result of only one other channel, by the way, but it's raised questions for me as to how I can deal with this without just shouting, "forget everything you've gotten through that channel, you must start all over...".

Okay, so since I've gone into Oration, and Passion Mode is kicking into high gear here, here are my clarified questions to you all... snip here, if you will:

1. If you are a Michael Channel, or have dabbled into channeling Michael, do you think it is fair to not include a disclaimer or possibility or reminder that this channeling, even at it's best, WILL be "flawed" (up to and above 20%)? It is never ever going to be accurate beyond that, never.

2. In your experiences as Students seeking channeling, how have you dealt with information that cannot possibly be true for you? I don't mean information you WISH wasn't true, I mean really untrue, like someone's ROLE, or the insights behind an event...?

3. (no names please) Have any of you had a session with a channel who has "nudged" you into accepting the information against your better judgment? Responding to you as if you need only understand in time? Or have had the information "fitted" to the situation with explanations that seem more like energy spent justifying than conveyance of a truth? If you have, how did you deal with this, and how do you move to another channel with trust?

Okay, that's all.

Ken, I only responded to you that way because of ME and my own skepticism of that type of channeling. I hope I explained it well. I know Michael has a sense of humour but it is greatly different than ours and it's usually accidental or a play on words. I just have never seen them deliberately make a corny joke, that's all.

Ok, my computer is being replaced this weekend... so If you don't hear from me over the next couple of days (as you all sigh a relief?), it's because this one went kaputz and I'm off line. Also, my grandfather died, and a devil child evil pumpkin headed housemate of ours (an Artisan over the edge on heavy medication, HUGE mental imbalances, caring for mental patients, herself, and violent) is finally leaving our space this weekend, moving for GOOD. Maybe you won't see me so edgy after that. She has been the source of all the electrical problems and lightening strikes to the house, I think! Ever had a Poltergeist?

Anyway...

Making friends the only way I know (by causing trouble),

otterly blue

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:11:40 -0400
Subject: Mate Agreements

Ted writes:

Dave,

You may not want to limit yourself this way. Sex is an important part of
life and there is no reason you shouldn't enjoy a reasonable amount
(speaking from the intellectual center here).

You can actively create situations in your life that will attract the
love you need regardless of any mating agreements you think you may or
may not have.

One of the messages that has been coming through from the "Energy I Give
the Name Michael" is that we are coming to a place where we no longer
have the option of not consciously creating our reality. You may want to
try practising creating a mating agreement for yourself - I can recommend
some techniques. I'm sure your essence won't mind a bit especially since
you would be much happier squeezing up close to your newly beloved. Why
not? Your happiness is essence's happiness.

Anyway I didn't know Ben & Jerry were that kinky, or, are they into adult
films now?

Possibly there is someone on this list who lives in your area who would
like to at least share some ice cream with you and enjoy your wit and
enthusiasm for music. And even a wet toungue in your ear sans helados.
Pray, come forward oh naughty one!

Yours -- Ted

OTTERLY NOW WRITES:

I agree with you TED.

My Mate Agreements were "pre-planned", but Michael has informed me of my "on-the-spot" Mate Agreements. You are never stuck with the ones you planned. In fact, sometimes, even the "pre-planned" Mates, once you see them, are not always what you intended to mate pre-incarnation, so you just pass them by. I've had a couple like that. You can feel your Essence/Personality kinda going, "Damn! You started SMOKING!?? You weren't supposed to do THAT!!" Or "Oh god, he lost a leg! Moonlight walks on the beach in CIRCLES, forget it!" hee hee

I never count on these mate Agreement info things anyway, because you usually react in one of two ways,... You get all eager, knowing you have a Mate Agreement coming up in Winter '98, let's say, so you kick into hyper active experience mode, squishing all of your experiences needed for the Mate Agreement into a week, what would have normally gone smoothly over 4 months, for instance. Then, you have all these expectations, and you are tired, and broken from your overload. The Mate Agreement person, as their Essence picks up on YOUR hyper mode, kicks into gear the life of the Mate, too. You meet in a week, instead of 4 months later, but you are broken, tired and no longer eye candy. You both go, "oooo, I don't recognize this mess..." and forget the whole thing.

Or, the other reaction is to realize, "OMYGOD! OMYGOD! A mate is on it's way, I must prepare, I must clean my life up, OMYGOD! Is that him? Is that Her? OMYGOD! Am I ready? OMYGOD! OMYGOD! OMYGOD!" Time passes, and so does the time frame for the mate. You never truly feel the time is "right", and you rearrange the Agreement, postpone, etc.,...

Cyprus, my girlfriend, has shooed many a boy off with her internal reactions like this. It seems her Personality liked to use the PROSPECTS of matedness to examine herself intensely, more than the actual pursuit of the Mate Agreement, itself. She's passed that phase, and now I can't keep them from busting down the door.

Me, well, I just sit here with my nose all squished to the window, going, "hello? hello? I'm serious now, about a Mate, hello? Really. Damn steam from my breath! hello?"

So TED, don't be all helpin' DAVE,...he's just fine with his flutes and dairy. Send some lovin' THIS way! And I don't even EAT ice cream, so don't even try to invite me DAVE!

ott

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 98 16:38:27 -0700
Subject: Re: Ernie's world

>Okay Gina,
>
> I confess. You found me out, so I'm also quiting the astral
>assassination squad.
>Here are my astral bullets, my astral assassin keychain and my astral
>decoder ring.
>
>John M

But John, how do we know this is not some kind of clever misinformation to give us the idea you are getting out. Sorry, nobody leaves this business - you know too much already. But maybe the world is ready for us to give away our secrets.

Astral Weaponry

The eternal soul sucker

Sucks you into a black void where you immediately expand to fill up all space. Unfortuntely you can't get out the way you came in. Eventually you become bored and create another Universe.

Sex Bomb

A maze of potential but never fulfilled mating agreements. You slither about in constant insipient pleasure but never get the satisfying finale. Eventually you realize that you are not this body and slither out again.

Past Life Locking Device.

Locks you into one scene of a past life. You experience it over and over and over again. Could be on a torture rack during the inquisition or taking the SAT. After a while you figure it out.

Scary Monster Generator

This weapon is used by the Devil (aka Bill Gates) to scare people once they arrive in Hell. Devils and Demons create wacky and wild scenes of torment while you figure out its all just a cheap illusion. Way out - watch their other hand.

VISIT THE 5TH ENTITY, 1ST CADRE - ASTRAL CRUISES NOW AVAILABLE.

Yours -- TEd

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:35:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Digest No. 1998-07-28 of Michael Teachings List

Michael Teachings List wrote:

> Way to go, Lynne! (re: your responses to Dr. Damasco)

      Thank you so much (blush blush:-)

> I'm really impressed by the Michael Teachings Lurkers. It seems as though whenever one of
> you quiet folks posts a message to the list I feel affirmed and "Right On!" and "Yeah!"
> and "Way to go!". I'm really glad you all are a part of this list.

      Thanks again. It's very amusing to me that here, I am a lurker. I do not usuallylurk on mailing lists. I have a strong personality and am quite chatty. But here I am often in observation mode:-) There is so much to take in and learn--why it tickles my little scholar heart.

> Even though I do not know you all yet I still deeply feel your that you lurker folks are
> part of my Michael Teachings family. I can, more and more, feel your loving energies
> quietly participating via your reading and thinking about the Michael List Postings.

      It's sort of lame, since we lurkers don't participate, but we feel part of it (or I do) andthere's a lot of warmth and good humor here that keeps me coming back...

> I love you all just as much as I love us non-lurkers.
>
> I've got a little stinging behind my eyebones as I write this.
>
> Happy Scholar sez: "It's really OK for Ken to be a happy little crybaby."
>
> Geez, is this what AGAPE is? Man... I love it.

      You're killing me! Agape is wonderful when we can tap into it, isn't it?

> Would you believe... I haven't even sent this post yet, and I can feel your responses
> around me. Thanks much, you all.

      And many thanks to you. You have a big warm spirit that I feel whenever you post! And I think part of the strength of my post (esp. the Mother part) came from me being in my 9th month of pregnancy! Everything unimportant falls away, and you take no shit! The power of pregnancy--whew!

Love, and Namaste!
Lynne T
4th level Old Scholar/Sage, Observation,Acceptance, Idealist
Higher Emotional & Higher Intellectual, Stubborness

p.s. Just looked at your overleaves more closely--no wonder you' liked my post! Talk about similarities--

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:42:45 EDT
Subject: Re: DAVE & KEN & the devil

In a message dated 7/29/98 7:56:19 PM, Kenneth writes:

Actually, I can "feel" the Michael's energies when they smile or chuckle. It
is a feeling. I do not "see" them smile, nor do I "hear" them chuckle. They
also make puns too. They are not at all lacking in humor.

A couple of weeks ago I was on my way to take an exam in my computer programming course. I got the idea of contacting a parallel where I was already a programmer for some help during the test (that's not cheating, is it?). I started urgently calling on my essence and Michael for help in making contact. Michael laughed and laughed. I was a bit bemused at this, and stuck my tongue out at them. I asked in Aaron's chat group about it and they said I had made contact with the parallel just by thinking of it, and they laughed because I didn't need the help. They also said that this type of thing happened frequently!

PS, I got a 103 on the test. :P

Martha

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:51:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Digest No. 1998-07-29 of Michael Teachings List

> Irony here: I was not raised in the Christian religion, and vehement and
> unpleasant proselytizing by people who never seemed to me to be actually
> LIVING the precepts they preached only led me to reject the whole thing early
> on. Michael's explanation of Jesus as the Infinite Soul, teaching agape from
> the Messianic plane, has allowed me to "accept Jesus" in a way that would have
> been impossible for me before I found these teachings.
>
> Of course, I "accepted" the Buddha, Lao Tse, and Sri Krishna at the same time,
> so I guess I'm still a pagan.
> Jody

      Thank you for putting it so well-- the Michaels brought me to Jesus in a wayI could live with. I was raised Christian, and I hated most of it (all the human gunk they threw on top of the basic teachings), but I couldn't shake this feeling that *something* real did happen back then, at the core of the religion....

      When I hit the Michael material, I felt like I had come home--I didn't have to give it all up--I could embrace the "core" of what I had been raised with, and also the other great "cores". Incarnations of Infinite Soul--that just felt correct, immediately...

      I think what is most reassuring is the beautiful similarity among these core beliefs, that is validating for me.

Lynne T
4th level Old Scholar/Sage, Observation, Acceptance, Idealist
Higher Emotional, higher Intellectual, Stubborness

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 98 21:09:48 -0700
Subject: Re: Chuckles the Channel

>1. If you are a Michael Channel, or have dabbled into channeling Michael, do
>you think it is fair to not include a disclaimer or possibility or reminder
>that this channeling, even at it's best, WILL be "flawed" (up to and above
>20%)? It is never ever going to be accurate beyond that, never.

Here's one I use (for now as I am always revising)

1. Channeling is not factual truth but a tool for obtaining and verifying what is personally true about your own life. Allow the information to help you make a decision but don't let it make the decision for you. The channeling process is complex and as imperfect as the language we use to express it.

2. I am not a health professional so I cannot diagnose mental/physical illnesses. I will give you channeled insight though which I hope will aid in your spiritual growth and physical healing. I sincerly hope that what we (myself and the beings I channel) can serve you in helping you make choices from the place of your own self acceptance

3. And from Michael " Questions asked sincerely provide the best results and allow a greater opening for healing and self awareness. Keep in mind that we do not tell you what do do. We will ask you to consider our answer and take it into yourself and see how it feels. We hope to align you, the personality, with 'Essence' and through the trials of the physical plane learning game, help you make the powerful connection with 'essence' and personality".

>2. In your experiences as Students seeking channeling, how have you dealt
>with information that cannot possibly be true for you? I don't mean
>information you WISH wasn't true, I mean really untrue, like someone's ROLE,
>or the insights behind an event...?

If someone channels me as warrior instead of artisan it may be an opportunity to look at the surrounding message. Good channeling would have some kind of reason behind that call. The reason may carry a valuable message to look at the warrior aspects of my life etc. For example, I was channeled as dominance instead of growth, but at that time of my life I was in a place that required me to lead others. The message could then be: Look at how you are using dominance and how is it affecting your goal of growth. It is up to me as a recipient to carefully evaluate the message and look at the different sides.

Then again, if you get what you consider a wrong overleaf, and you really feel that it is the wrong overleaf, then you may want to acknowledge to yourself that you have come some way in understanding the Michael Teaching. That is, you can see your own overleaves clearly.

This is a teaching and teaching involves many, many wrong answers. It wouldn't be a learning experience if we only received the right answers - we may even get stuck in the same dogma we are wanting relief from. Consider that as Michael students we are in one big Student/Teacher monad - good teachers make the students do all the work.

We are our own authorities and no channel should deny us that. Channels don't make choices for us; we can use, reject, store and share the information but it is only information. We make the choices.

From the 435th floor of the 1st Cadre/5th Entity which brings you the
Great Hall of Hot Tubs, 16 bowling alleys and the skyway rollercoaster......
Ted

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:32:36 -0400
Subject: RE:TED FONTAINE

Otterly writes:

I have always been in awe and inspired by your channeling of Michael. I resonate with it, and your responses to these questions are peaceful to me. Thanks...

This is going to be good for me. I hope others who have concerns and "issues" will contribute, too. Most of you channels I know have all got this great compassion and "whatever" kind of attitude in regards to Michael (potentially) being distorted or misrepresented. Michael says the CAN'T be misrepresented or distorted, since we see what we want no matter how "clearly" they come through,...I GET IT intellectually, just not emotionally...

When I "feel" it's NOT Michael, I cringe...

What's my problem? How do you other channels TRULY find peace in that conflict? Am I the only one who gets riled? Is it my goobery Overleaves?

The runt,
Ott

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:18:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dr.D

Upon entering Tao Central mid conversation.......

Fade out as the sparks disperse into the cosmos.

Just my take on Dr. Ernie.....
Morgan

===
Work as if you don't need the money
Love as if you have never been hurt,
And dance as if nobody is watching!

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:56:32 -0400
Subject: RE: Dr. & MORGAN

This has got to be the absolute, most precious thing I have EVER seen on this list... (maybe even anywhere)

What sweetness and light you are!

Thanks Morgan!

Ott

Ps: "-NDAVE" will respond separately...

HA!

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:41:15 EDT
Subject: Re: Digest No. 1998-07-28 of Michael Teachings List

In a message dated 7/30/98 1:34:38 AM, you write:

And I think part of the strength of my post (esp. the Mother part) came from
me being in my 9th month of pregnancy! Everything unimportant falls away,
and you take no shit! The power of pregnancy--whew!

That got even more intense for me AFTER Morgan's birth! The reality of feedings every 3 hours round the clock makes you even less interested in trivial stuff. But it is truly a magical time!

Martha

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:17:05 -0400
Subject: Same Elephant

Otterly Blue wrote:

> [clipped]
>
> When I "feel" it's NOT Michael, I cringe...

Dear Otterly,

Maybe it's like the blind men trying to describe an elephant:
one man describes the trunk,
another describes a tusk,
another describes a leg,
another describes an ear,
another describes the tail,
another describes its ...
etc.

If each man feels that his "feeling" of an elephant is the only indication of truth, then they are all missing a greater truth of that wonderful creature called an elephant.

If each channel feels that his "feeling" of Michael is the only indication of Michaelness then we are all missing a greater truth of Michaelness.

To me the 1050 Michael fragments have many different "feels" to them. Your wonderful channelings of Michael have a different feel to them than Ted's, or JP's, or Aaron's, or mine. In my own channelings of Michael I get different feelings of Michael depending on the nature of the questions I am asking, and how Michael chooses to communicate with me. Sometimes there are no words at all, just a transmitted knowing.

I have learned that rather than looking for clear feelings of an identity, I listen for feelings of "goodness" and "righteous intent" and "level of the source" that are independent of who I am trying to channel. When I want to check who it is I am channeling (when I am in doubt) I just ask. (Ex. "Are you Michael of the Overleaves?")

Whenever I have come across what I thought was conflicting channelings on some topic I found that down the road a bit what I was really experiencing was a another and different view of the same "elephant".

-----

Another point that is true with me (and maybe other scholars) is my "Scholarly" way of talking, that many of my long time personal friends have recognized. And that is my talking (and writing) as though I have "the" grasp of "the" truth. I get laughed at a lot for this, because they know that I don't really feel that way about myself... I just come off that way sometimes. This I understand is a characteristic of "Scholars".

I am very aware of this when counseling clients, and I always preface a counseling session with an explanation of my possible fallibility(sp?) and their personal responsibility to themselves (read validation). I also ask them for their continued feedback about their feelings about our conversation.

Peace and Light to You and Yours,
Kenneth Broom, The Happy Scholar, INFP
   7th level Old Scholar/Server, Observation, Acceptance, Idealist,
   Higher Emotional & Higher Intellectual, Impatience/Stubbornness,
aka I.A.M. Research, Columbia, Maryland, USA

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:50:58 -0700
Subject: Re: re: Ernie's overleaves

MaryP.... and we are glad you joined the discussion too. I was very pleased to read your words which came across with such a lovely even keel and rhythm. Your thoughts were valid and I will enjoy pondering them as well as look forward to others (and we do hope Dr. D's) replies to your ideas. I realize that I've been craving communication of all kinds and this is the best place for me to go and stretch my wings. Thanks for jumping right in there. BTW... I really enjoy being a Sage and yammer up a storm in my day to day life. Sooo what's it like for you being an artisan?

Hugs (cause we all need 'em)
Diane
3/O Sage (with a passion to yammer)

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:55:53 -0400
Subject: RE: Same Elephant & KEN

Thank you for even taking the time to respond to my agitated reaction. That was very kind of you. I appreciate it, immensely.

Now, see, all of that makes sense to me, your response. It's not that I have ever thought there was only one version of Michael, just a certain "flavor", I guess. I've never been too concerned with the different styles. That's easily explained. But there is this thread of consistency that is lacking sometimes, in some channeling.

Over the years, I have moved through three clusters of Michael Fragments in my channeling. It was apparent that the energies and specialties shifted along with it, but that consistency was still there. Right now, I work with 12 Fragments; 3 Kings and 9 Warriors. The Kings do all the "speaking", I suppose, while the Warriors run around gathering info for the session at hand, etc.,..

See, I think, with the mainstreaming of Michael, and the availability of their energies to anyone interested, there is bound to be some personification. I have had very little personification available to me from Michael. I have to kind of "force" a picture of them (a silvery blue-ish light, by the way). They seem more like a frequency than a person laughing and cracking jokes... They can be the most hilarious of anyone, but it's usually by some play on words, or an extremely DRY wit. Like my King friend, Basil. He just stands around and everyone wonders what kind of judgment he is placing on them, then he opens his mouth and without even meaning to, can floor the room with his comment. He can be sooo funny, but he doesn't even mean to be. That's what my experience of Michael's humour has been. It's never been like Seth, where an a actual Fragment's Personality from the entity was used as a vehicle.

In the same way, they have never praised, or coddled anyone. They have never said things like, "everything will be all right, don't you worry, precious...". Just another example of what would make my hair stand up if I heard "Michael" saying those words. THAT'S a good example of what I mean.

I don't know... Maybe you are right about the elephant, and I just grabbed the big ass part and can't see a damn thing either way... hee hee. Maybe I've been missing out on a real joker. And, let's say, some ARE channeling Michael in the way Seth was channeled. A Fragment of the entity and a specific Personality template as a vehicle. Now that never occurred to me, till just now! And, in your case, since you don't promote yourself as a channel on a wide scale, and focus mainly on Overleaves (from what I read?), then it might make perfect sense that this might be the case?

WOW. A big "DUH" is on my forehead. What is your take on that possibility?

Like I said, in the earlier post, I've never really had a problem with someone's style (that's just been an aside question). I have really only had a problem with one channel's fallout, and it wasn't due to the channeling, it was due to the pushy, overbearing, authority generated by the fear of discrepancies, contradictions, and just plain being wrong.

Michael can poke fun, laugh, make things up, dance a jig, for all I care, through or for anyone. It's when a person's channeling begins to be defended that I feel weird.

And from your response, I would never in a million years EVER knock your channeling JUST because you actually EXPLAINED to me your take on it, you didn't have to defend it. THAT has changed my opinion altogether. Whether I resonate or not with certain expressions is irrelevant. I honor your approach, and my ignorance cannot/will not be a standard.

Thank you Ken. I am now closer to perfection... HA!

The ever-learning OTTERLY

Ps: Can any other Channel on the list share their internal experience of channeling Michael, what fragments are working with them, anything? I think that would be most enlightening to many.

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:03:57 +0800
Subject: Re: Ernie's Overleaves and Commentaries on same

At 01:51 PM 7/29/98 -0000, Kenneth Broom wrote:

>per Kenneth:
>------------
>The data below came in very strong due to the influence that Dr. Damasco has already had
>on the Michael Teachings List. I'd really like to hear more from some other listers
>regarding their experience of Ernie's overleaves and life path.

Thanks, Kenneth. I had known that debating doctrines and theology with Dr. D is a futile exercise, hence I can only admire those who did. :-) I have had my share of such debates in the past, and from both sides of the coin, to boot (yeah, "been there, done that").

Which was why my longest response to him was about his own personality, according to my observation. How accurate I was depends on his own validation. :-) And for that, I earned the "Grrrrrrr" from whomever (sorry, forgot your name). At that point, I was wondering whether I had did anything wrong. Granted that my post sounded like a personal flame, so I will state here, again, that my observations were done in detached manner. i.e. It is more an exercise of my observation and writing skills than a personal attack. Anyway, from that "Grrrr...", it sounded that I failed miserably. :-)

>per Michael
>-----------
>"6th level Baby Priest, in the Power Mode, with a Goal of Domination, the Attitude of a
>Cynic, Emotional Part of the Emotional Center, Chief Feature of Arrogance.
>
>"Prior to incarnation he had considered a Goal of Growth, but felt he couldn't move fast
>enough with that Goal and so chose Domination, feeling the kind of responses these choices
>would bring from human life at this point in time.
>
>"He chose Power Mode for the same reason.
>
>"His attitude of Cynic was purposely chosen to abrade against ideas other than what he
>considers to be his truth.
>
>"His emotional centering and emotional part provides him a "huge" fund of energy to keep
>him on his chosen path...
>
>"especially with a CF of Arrogance which is manifest from a human fear of not being
>appreciated, which he also knew was going to happen, but no longer realizes at this point
>in physical time and space.

Needless to say, this is fascinating. Much thanks to Dr. K. Broom.

>"His many formal Degrees were his attempts at discovering the "rules" of life during this
>period of space and time.
>
>"He also knew (pre-incarnationally) that the growth potential of this space and time is
>greater than almost anywhere else in the galaxy of galaxies. and so chose to incarnate
>when he did in order to play a catch-up game so to speak.

How does that spell "impatience" at the Essence level?

>"His life task is to exercise his overleaves to the fullest extent possible short of
>causing someone to lethally abrade his physical body.