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Michael List Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 12:01:06 -0500 [Long posting warning!] To Shannon and others, At the risk of confusing the general understanding about Centers and parts of Centers, I would like to contribute my experience and perspective and you all can validate or not validate as it suits you. When I began using the Ouija board to obtain Overleaves on people back in 1981, I took a hint from an obscure passage in Message From Michael that everyone has all Centers active to some degree, not just the lower Centers. I asked the board to give me the strength of people's Centers from strongest to weakest. It did so, and consequently/subsequently I have developed a different way of understanding Centering than the way it has been presented in published material. In fact, many people were said to have one or more of the higher Centers as their strongest, which contradicts the published teaching. Myself was said to have the Higher Intellectual Center and Instinctive Centers as my strongest. I had no idea what these Centers meant at the time, so I was surprised and confused when the board contradicted the book. It took many charts and study of many people over several years to come to the conclusion that there is apparently an "everyday" way that the higher Centers show up. One does not necessarily have to be having a continuous mystical experience to be said to be in the Higher Intellectual Center. Nor does one have to be having a continuous ecstatic experience to be said to be in the Higher Emotional Center. Nor does one have to be capable of manifesting continuous miracles to be said to be in the Higher Moving Center. In my own case, I saw that I naturally gravitated to mystical insights when I got the mundane affairs of life out of the way - the kind of affairs one normally takes care of in the lower Centers. There have been many times also when I truly achieved the mystical state of consciousness that is the extreme experience of the Higher Intellectual Center. I also came to the conclusion that the Instinctive Center has been misrepresented in the published literature. It seems correct to me that the negative pole, called "-Anatomic", concerns our animal nature and our bodily functions - our "lower self" -- but I believe the positive pole taps into our Essence, our "higher self". The positive pole -- called "-Atomic" in the published literature but which I prefer to call "+Spontaneity" -- is where we receive "promptings from Essence" (a phase coined by Michael that I like). We are in this pole when we just "know" something inside that later proves valid outside. People like myself who have a strong Instinctive Center are perhaps more aware than others of the dichotomy/polarity between higher and lower self. As for parts of Centers, the published Michael teachings are pretty much a holdover from the teachings of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky. You can read about this in their writings, and I believe Jose Stevens and Shepherd Hoodwin discuss this at length in their books. My experience is that this is also a valid way of interpreting certain psychological and behavioral phenomena. That is, we do tend to get stuck or trapped in a lower Center "part" of our primary lower Center. I tend to get hung up in the Emotional part of Intellectual Center when processing my daily life. (I don't think rationally when I am upset. The way out of this is to activate the Lower Moving Center - take a walk, for instance.) Where my perspective differs from others, is that I see seven parts of seven centers for a total of 49 parts. I have this theory that the relative strengths of our Centers is to some extent built into our brain structure genetically and/or our soul structure, and that this can include the higher Centers. Acculturation ("False Personality") subsequent to birth determines where we get trapped in the lower Centers as we are forced to deal with life on the Physical Plane. When our soul seeks to grow us, it wants us to move out of our habitual Centering into our soul's/brain's true Centering, whatever that may be, and usually it is lower Centers. For many "spiritual" people however, this is in fact a higher Center. Everyone grows "spiritually" because this is built into the reincarnational system, but those who are aware of their spiritual growth and reincarnation I have often found have easy access to one or more higher Center. (I see this as equivalent to moving kundalini energy up the chakras.) Like I said, I tend to get stuck in the Emotional part of the Intellectual Center, but because I have strength in higher Centers there is pressure to move up through the Intellectual, Instinctive, Higher Intellectual, Higher Emotional, and Higher Moving parts of the Intellectual Center to get to the Instinctive Center and the Higher Intellectual Center, where my soul would rather hang out. I was able to -- in retrospect when I finally got to Instinctive Center/Heart Chakra -- actually track this movement during my thirties and early forties. I like to correlate the idea of movement through the seven parts of the seven Centers with the movement through the seven Levels of the seven soul Ages and the seven levels of the seven planes. (BTW, we have been told about the seven levels of the astral and causal and mental planes, but has anybody ever asked Michael what the seven levels of the physical plane are? Is it like, particles and atoms and chemicals and minerals and plants and animals and humans or something?) Recently I saw -- I think it was in Sarah Chamber's new work -- that the seven Milestones ("Internal Monads") are also said to have seven stages through which one grows. And not only that, but there are said to be seven stages between the negative pole of an Overleaf and the positive pole of the Overleaf. Do I see a pattern here of seven within seven within seven within seven within seven ad eternum? Namaste, Phil Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 00:37:07 EDT Dear Phil -- I think you are onto something here. I've never felt like I properly understood centering as it is presented in the various Michael books...as if there were something out of kilter that was making it unintuitive and overly complex. I think the treatment of centering in the Yarbro books and Stevens books is damaged by Gurdjieffian dogmatism that influenced the channels. Whatever centering actually is, it should be easily to grasp in a concrete way. It would seem to want to have obvious links with the seven planes, chakras, and probably with our brain "wiring". I've encountered the idea somewhere that the brain has seven parts which are progressive evolutionary additions. That is, the first and oldest part is the brain stem (I think) which is a basic ancient reptilian brain, then this expanded and evolved over much time to what we have now. I believe that a lot of the "90% we don't use" of our brain capacity is actually connected with (or potentially is connected with) the higher planes in ways that scientists can't detect with physical instruments. Presumably our higher centers are an overleaf "template" with which we interface with our brain processes? Also, presumably, the seven main chakras are each in some way our main interface with one of the seven planes. I like the idea that we can fairly easily have use of all the centers. I've met people who could use lots of them easily, where the usual Gurdjieffian- Michael dogma is we have a center and a part (2nd most used) and lots of trouble with the others. That was probably a useful generalization once, but it probably was solidified too much. Well, I'm too tired and brain-fried to continue at the moment, but thanks for opening up this subject! All the best, Ed PS: About seven levels of the physical plane, Seth Cohn channeled on that in 1989 or 1990. I hope he sees this and can find or remember what he got; it was interesting. Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:46:38 -0700 Hello Philip,
| At the risk of confusing the general understanding about Centers and
Interesting thoughts...
| I also came to the conclusion that the Instinctive Center has
Have you read Chapter 10 in »Earth to Tao«? José Stevens devotes the entire chapter to the Instinctive Center. It has been some time since I read it, but recall the Instinctive Center is covered in more depth than any other publication I am aware of. Cheers, Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:46:20 -0700 Hello Ted, Interesting piece - I'll comment on just one small part -
| Instinctive center/Intellectual part (is this possible?)
Apparently so. Cheers, [--------------------===============<*>===============--------------------] [T]he neutral center is the instinctive center... Those whom you Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:53:33 +0800 At 05:15 PM 6/15/98 -0000, Philip Wittmeyer wrote: .... <all snipped to conserve bandwidth> Sorry, Philip, either I quote the whole thing, or not... :-) I just like to comment that I validate on personal basis that indeed we can have access to all 7 centers, at various times, usually depending on situations. I also validate on personal basis that there are traps, certain parts of certain center. I don't presume to be able to think up a model to accomodate both validations (systems) with regard to centers, but I would like to point out that the "habitual centers" and the "traps (parts)" are exactly that -- habitual, something we do (behave) without consciously aware of it. Simply by being more conscious of the moment, present us a choice to choose which center to act out of. It is, thus, possible to "change habit". As with changing any habit, it feels like (at first) going up a creek without a paddle. But as time goes on, a different habit will be established. I am channeled as "intellectual center with trap of emotional part" (or called "emotional part of intellectual center"). As far as I recall, I used to have my emotional part suppressed, really analytical (to death). I suspect I used to have "intellectual center with trap of intellectual part". It was my conscious effort to feel, emotionally, that it somehow shifted (and it took years). But that was before I came across Michael's Teachings. With this teaching comes the awareness that I don't need to "go through the parts to access other centers, but can access those centers directly". It is, therefore, my efforts to access those centers directly, when and where I choose. It is not easy, and I can't do that as yet. But since I have proven to myself that changing "trap" is possible, removing "trap" is within human possibilities. :-) It may took years, or decades, but trying is just as much fun as achieving, no? Centering is among several aspects of our overleaves that can be changed within a life-time. It is up to us to choose these aspects of our personalities (e.g. Chief Features, Attitude [though it was noted in early Michael books that it usually takes a traumatic experience to change life Attitude], and Mode). We may choose to stay within "comfort zone" and stick with whatever we are familiar with, or (especially for those with Goal as [intense] Growth) to choose to change personality, even to the extend of shifting personality traits "on the fly" (particularly handy for actors/actress, no?). I am channeled to have Goal as [intense] growth. And a contrary astrological influence of [sun in] Cancer. :-) So I am constantly in conflict of "staying in comfort zone" and "pushing to experience more". I suppose that is part of my self-karma, on the Old stage of evolution. Which probably prompted me to comment in this particular manner. /end rambling ;-) J J Tan Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 22:04:59 +0800 At 04:36 AM 6/16/98 -0000, Ed wrote:
PS: About seven levels of the physical plane, Seth Cohn channeled on that in
Sorry for not sounding nice, but when people start churning out "systems of 7's", much like the Kabbalistic system(s), I have some sort of red flag up, warning of contriving of theology. :-) Nothing personal, Ed, and Philip. :-) How about this... in the book "Magical Passes", Castaneda reported a conversation with Don Juan, who mentioned that "sorcerors of antiquity" mapped out the positions of the Assemblage Point where bona fide worlds can be cohesively assembled... and there are over 600 positions. I don't know any physical characteristics of these other worlds, but in several of Castaneda's books, there were mentioning of different "speed of time" in different worlds. e.g. A member of Don Juan's party, Silvio Manuel, reportedly spent a few seconds in a world but came back to this one 9 years later. And a member of Castaneda's party, Carol Tiggs, reportedly spent a few seconds with a "Death Defier" but only re-appeared in this world 10 years later. I did post a mail here a while ago to ask if any channeler would like to channel more extensive information with regard to Castaneda's teachings, but there has been no response. I suppose I'll have to apply this question in a "hired channeling". So any channeler interested to take up this offer? :-) Though I prefer a reasonable priced service, I would welcome any recommendation on which channeler to contact for "Castanedan knowledge base" channeling... (or whatever you call it... I heard that channelers work best when the subject matter is something they are familiar with.) Regards. J J Tan Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:42:27 EDT Hi Phil and List, Thanks for the post about centering as I think many Michael students have
the most difficult time grasping how the centering works (and Michael math:))
So, bringing more of the 'trues' into our daily physical plane lives can help us access the higher centers and help us to experience what we so often are searching for- Joy. Victoria Marina Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:10:13 -0700 Phil, Blessings, Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:45:31 +0000 Philip Wittmeyer wrote that in his channellings:
> ...many people were said to have one or more of the higher Centers
This was one of the more puzzling aspects of my chart when I first received it. I was channelled as being in the physical part of the higher moving center. However, none of the literature at the time said this was even possible, so no descriptions of that centering were around to help me validate it. I first asked Michael through Jose Stevens about it, and he confirmed that no one could be in the higher moving center on a long term basis. It would be like being a race car driver all the time--that kind of constant rush. Later, I asked Michael through Shepherd Hoodwin (who had done the original chart), and this was his (slightly edited) response: "In Shepherd's book, it was stated that body centers have a somewhat
'transparent' quality about them. The reactions in the body are only
occasionally overt. Someone who is moving centered still cannot be literally in
motion every time there is reaction. You would have to be a whirling dervish.
Even a racecar driver does not drive all the time. Probably the percentage of
time spent in the racecar out of the overall waking hours would be
miniscule--although for him or her the driving might be a defining experience.
Now, as you react or respond to our energy and our words, your body is under the
necessity of just sitting there, so you do not move--yet. So the body
transparently conveys the stimulus into your deeper reaches. You could also say
that the body 'protects' the intellect and emotions by processing them first.
Things have to 'feel right' to your body before they move on, internally. Hope this expands your understanding as much as it did mine. I know Kenneth Broom has also channeled on this topic, to the effect that the higher centers are more easily accessible than the published material has previously stated (12 Sept 97 in the archive--check it out). The Higher Centers: not just for breakfast anymore! Love always, Dean Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:35:00 -0700 I was wondering if anyone's got anything about the nature of obsessions. Is this mainly a centering thing (like emotional part of intellectual?) or something else? Seems to me it must be something more.... I know there is a biochemical component too, but on a soul level, I wonder if having obsessions is to clue you in on where you have karma, agreements, or your fears & obstacles. All I know for sure is that when I get an obsession, I have to do something about it or it stays stuck. I guess there is a difference between being obsessed with your work vs. being obsessed about a person or a relationship, huh? Anyway, it doesn't feel very healthy or balanced to me. I wondered if anyone has some input on this, if you know where obsessions come from, or what you do about them? Sometimes I think I'm just gonna lose my mind! :-) Which sometimes, might not be such a bad thing, heheh. Thank you -- Lori Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 14:43:18 -0700 Just a few things about centering here. First not to forget that Gurdjieff was just bringing through a form of michael's information too like any of us today that have a connection with michael. Beyond that-- simply that each of us forms our own interpretation to some degree to make the information our own and useful to us. I've found the information on centering incredibly useful both for myself and in understanding others. It is an easy way to see where we tend to get stuck and limit our ability to fully live life. It also makes it so clear how and why we have different ways of perceiving, experiencing and expressing. For me and in my observation and understanding of others, I've found it very accurate that there is a center or way we tend to perceive through first and that this is pretty much a given for a life. Then there is a way of being that is favored after that-- that is both a strength and point of weakness because of the tendency to over use it. The last area of the three basics is extremely balancing and I've found this to be remarkably true even when that center is brought in through fun rather than serious means. It tends to bring a balance and harmony into the life. It is usually an area of ourselves with lots of room for exploration, being in ways that we are not as accustomed to and an area that opens and expands us in ways that feel wonderful and alive when it's happening. I think what is called instinctive center is something that we can all access more regularly and consciously through choice, and do access regularly on a daily basis, although usually in a less aware way. Taking a bath or a shower, you can easily sense it. Gardening, being by water, etc. It does seem to be a doorway to the higher centers which we can also choose to spend more time in through our focus and what we decide is important to us. We're so used to the way we perceive and process, act, intuit, feel -- that these habits tend to be somewhat unconscious until it's pointed out to us. The awareness can open up more choices and if we act on what we learn, more aliveness. For me, the brain is a tool and genetics is the means -- to express our being in the world. They don't define us, we define them and make use of the parts of the tools that best express us. There definitely can be glitches in these systems and there are a lot of impurities in our environment that affect the chemical balances within us and the use of these tools as well as limitations of the physical plane that as spirit expressing through the physical we perceive as hampering to us, but I think generally we choose vehicles that are useful to our expression. Imbalances over many lives express themselves in the physical as well as all of our other tendencies and habits over time.Balance created now will be carried on as well. Deep habits of work, study, play, contemplation -- where we choose to focus our time and energy influence and eventually solidify into form and affect our form now and the kind of future vehicles we'll create to serve us. There are clear pathways and keys to have easy or regular access to the higher centers and like anything else, the more we do it the easier it becomes. It feels like there are built in incentives to access the higher centers and personally every effort I've made in that direction has been only enriching and pleasurable. Best to all, Brin Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 17:10:21 -0500 [long posting warning!] Hi gang, Wow! Thank you all for responding to my posting. Your comments have sparked a lot of thoughts in me. I do not have time to write them all down and respond to you individually, but maybe I can get back to it later. This will have to do for now. A note of explanation: my experience in regard to the Michael teaching has
evolved somewhat like a marsupial in Australia - cut off from the rest of the
world. It was about five years after I found Messages From Michael (in 1980)
that I discovered the writings of Jose Stevens and others, and by that time I
was already a long ways down the path of my own unique Artisan tangents. I have
read parts of a lot of the non-Yarbro books, but not actually studied them, so I
thank some of you for making reference to some of that information. I have also
done quite a bit of reading in the Gurdjieff-Ouspensky teaching, a major part of
which concerns the matter of Centering. For those of you out there who want to
pursue this subject and don't already know about it, you can find a much more
thorough explanation in the G-O teaching than you can in the Michael Teachings.
I particularly recommend the five-volume "Commentary" by Maurice Nicoll. (Most
of you probably already know that the founders of the original Michael group had
a background in the G-O teaching, so Michael explained a lot of their stuff in
G-O terminology. A couple of weeks back I offered a book manuscript of mine to those who were interested in sacred sexuality. Well, it occurs to me now - because Lori brought it up -- that this manuscript also has a lot to say about my understanding of Michael's teaching about the Centers, and their importance/relevance to the physical/spiritual path. If you want it, let me know. In addition, I can send you the pertinent section from my other book manuscript, The Process Aspect System. It has my little exposition of each of the Centers. It explains, FWIW, among other things, my understanding of how the higher Centers are experienced mildly as well as strongly, in both of their poles. It is based on my own personal experiences, and my observations of others that my Ouija board identified. I have always had the vague impression that the Centers were a little different sort of animal from the other Overleaves, and quite frankly, like Ed, some things about the way they have been explained heretofore are not as tidy as I would like them to be. Questions have come to mind. One of the things that puzzles and intrigues me is the correlation of the ancient oriental teaching about the chakras and the, perhaps new, teaching about the Centers. Near as I can tell, the chakras are in the body and there are corresponding Centers in the brain/soul. I have wondered if the seven charkras correlate with all seven of the Centers or just the seven Parts of the Lower Moving or of the Instinctive Center. I have seen some Michael channeling on the correlation, but I am not satisfied that it is accurate or complete, and I have developed some of my own ideas based on reading and experience. In my book manuscript I talk about my chakra-opening, kundalini-rising, higher-Center experiences via interaction with the opposite sex. There has been discussion on this list about the use of psychotropic substances to get into the higher Centers. I bet if we all compared notes we could come up with a pretty good theory of the higher Centers. Another big question I have is: to what extent are the Centers a function of
genetics and to what extent are they a function of soul? I have a few other questions on this topic which I might get to next time. My
interest is in the experiential as well as the theoretical. Namaste, Philbert Date: Wed, 17 Jun 98 01:06:11 UT Phil, thanks for starting this fascinating thread! I'm pleased to see that others have had the same trouble I have understanding centering. For me it's been the most confusing part of the teachings. In one of the books (Dick, can you remind me where out of your apparently photographic memory?) Michael says that intellectually centered folks can take up to two years to understand their own emotions. That resonated; I do seem to take a while and a lot of processing to understand my feelings. I suspect that my immediate reaction is often out of the false personality (emotional trap?), and it takes me time to see things from a "higher" perspective. I thought Michael was saying that I could avoid the emotional trap, but that I would always be slower to know my own feelings than moving-centered and emotionally-centered people, and that was that. But now I remember several times when I got clarity on my feelings AND my thinking by getting into the moving center. For example, suddenly knowing, absolutely, that I had to leave a long-term relationship - this insight came while I was kayaking and totally "in the moment." Much to consider. Definitely I am going to seek out more activities that get me into moving center and see what happens. Now here's my question to the list: is music - playing it, listening to it - a moving center or emotional center experience? (I think it's both.) ----<-{@ (that's a rose for you all) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 05:30:31 -0700 Hi Jody,
| Phil, thanks for starting this fascinating thread! I'm pleased to see
Heh! No photographic memory; just a lot of notes.
| Michael says that intellectually centered folks can take up to two years
I don't recall that. But when you say only "intellectually centered", you leave out the very important *part*. For instance, centering of IME (intellectual/moving/emotional, that is intellectual, moving part) is more likely to have slow/weak/lacking emotional response than someone with IEM (of course Exx would have the strongest emotional response). Same with MIE - more trouble than MEI. The last one is the weak one, no matter which one it is. Of course the other overleaves and life situation will have their influence, but in general the 3rd center is the weakest of the 3.
| That resonated; I do seem to take a while and a lot of processing to
Are you IEM or IME?
| but that I would always be slower to know my own feelings than
That doesn't sound right. I can't see where someone who is MIE would know their feelings more quickly than someone who is IEM.
| But now I remember several times when I got clarity on my feelings AND
It's my guess that your inspiration came through the emotional center. Doing something that was out of the ordinary, that was inspiring, and required no intellectual processing caused your intellectual center to mostly shut down thereby allowing your emotional center to be open to greater perception. I have thought about this situation extensively as that is exactly my problem (I am IME). This was brought to my attention repeatedly as I attempted to learn to channel. I do have a perception, a feeling of what this is even though I haven't yet been able to restrain my intellectual center enough to take full advantage of my emotional center. My perception of this situation is in computer-related diagrammatic terms, but nonetheless valid I think.
| Much to consider. Definitely I am going to seek out more activities
Music is connected to the emotional center.(Of those in the performing arts, actors would be more connected to the moving center. Cheers, [--------------------===============<*>===============--------------------] Those working in fine arts are ... connected to the Higher Emotional Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:02:21 EDT In a message dated 6/15/98 2:57:42 PM, Ted wrote:
Passtime: Vibrating
Mama, I'm shakin'.... Slap me! Hey, if all of the planets were the same, there wouldn't be a need for more
than one planet, would there? John C Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 14:10:17 -0500 Hi Lori, I have a few comments about obsessions that I would like to share with you but I don't have time right now. I am kind of all wrapped up in the discussion about Centering. Gotta go. Phil Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:29:48 -0700 Hi Phil -- No problem, I've been busy too. And thank you to everyone who's written to me privately. :) I'll catch up on my e-mails soon I hope. Love & Light, Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:43:05 -0700 Hi everyone, I'm putting out a call to the Universe. There is a bodywork school here in Sacramento, California called the Integrative Therapy school, where they teach massage and accupressure. I want to take their 130-hour class for massage practitioner. My affirmation is that I AM taking this course. It is supposed to begin June 30 and lasts almost 12 weeks, evenings 7-10pm Mon-Thurs. Unfortunately, to hold the class they need at least 10 people. They have only 4 now signed up (including me.) So, I'm offering to somebody if they'd like to take that class with me, and if you'd like, to rent out our unoccupied guest room for cheap for that time and you could either get a day job for extra money, or maybe babysit my 2-year old wonderful little son, while I'm at work, and I'd pay you. Well it doesn't have to look a certain way. :) I'm just brainstorming. E-mail me if you're feeling like you want to jump! Lori Tostado Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:02:24 EDT Forget the payment. I just want a free massage. ;-p Dave Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:08:25 -0700 Dave! Can I smack you now? Nah, you'd probably like it. Lori Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:18:25 -0500 Hi gang, While pondering your various responses to my posting on Centering, I noticed a few things that I need to clarity. The inordinate strength of my Higher Intellectual Center gets me into trouble on a fairly regular basis, both here at work and in relationships. The problem is, it wants to categorize everything into the system/pattern of archetypes embodied in the number seven. I find this an elegant and beautiful and exhilerating exercise for the HIC. J J Tan commented how this kind of thing sends up "red flags" about "contriving theology". Michael did say somewhere that the number seven is a "Cosmic Truth" - meaning it is applicable to all Planes of creation. The number seven also figures prominently in "the perennial philosophy" (the distillation of ancient spiritual teachings) and the major religious traditions. So, if it is contrived theology, I lean to the opinion that Theo (Greek for "the Tao") contrived it. However, that one understands this has virtually no practical value in day-to-day life here on the physical Plane, which is often extremely untidy. For me to insist on Platonic ideals would be very inappropriate in the "real world". If we learn anything from the concept of the Centers, it should be the practical application of responding from the appropriate Center for the situation at hand. If sevenness has no meaning or charm to you, I can understand why, and it can be safely ignored. I do not see it anywhere when I look out the window or talk to a coworker. I only see it when I get into my HIC, which has little value here and now. Furthermore, there may not be a very good correlation between the ideal of Sevenness and the way it manifests in this untidy experience we call life. For instance, there may not be a good correspondence between the abstract concept of Centers and the body chakras or the brain structures. I confess my bias: my HIC has a prejudice against messiness, but I do know the world is a messy place. The ideal is tidy, but the manifestation isn't. I do not remember whether or not this passage got into Messages From Michael or not, but in the transcriptions of the original sessions, Michael said, "Balanced man implies the obsolescence of the Overleaves", of which Centering is just one Overleaf. The phrase, "balanced man", was borrowed from the Gurdjieff-Ouspensky teaching. Gurdjieff espoused the idea that there were seven stages of psychological/spiritual development. He called these "Man # 1, Man #2 . . . Man # 7. Briefly explained: Man # 1 was characterized as mostly Physical (a.k.a. Sexual, Lower Moving) Centered in his perceptions, Man # 2 was mostly focused in Emotional Center type perceptions, Man # 3 was mostly Intellectually aware. These three lower stages were said to be where the vast majority of humankind hangs out. Man # 4 was called "Balanced Man" - the first truly spiritually-aware stage of development according to Gurdjieff. This obviously corresponds to the Neutral Instinctive Center The three higher stages, # 5, # 6, and # 7, were inhabited by genuine mystics, true saints, realized masters and such. "Balanced man implies the obsolescence of the Overleaves". The point to be made here is that not only does life go easier if you are fluid in terms of Centering, but the more mature you are spiritually the more fluid you will be in terms of the other Overleaves as well. The more you live in Essence, the less you live in Personality, FALSE or TRUE, because the two are reciprocally related as poles of a Monad. So loosen up a little! But at the same time realize that only the Tao has no Overleaves, has no Role, has no Casting, isn't limited to any particular Plane, etc. Getting into the positive poles of our Centers and other Overleaves is a major step on the spiritual path, but it is apparently not the final step. We are playing the personality game now and forever. I have noticed that just because people have strong higher Centers, it doesn't make them spiritual giants. That is why I think Gurdjieff's concept of "Level of Being" provides a more accurate gauge of the phenomenon commonly referred to as "spiritual development" than ability to access higher Centers (or soul Age for that matter). Advancement in Level of Being is the subject of my book manuscript. In any kind of growth through time, there is a progression through seven stages within seven stages of the time structure of the cosmos ad eternum. Gurdjieff called this the "Law of Octaves". Seems like it was Shepherd/Michael who first proposed/noticed/revealed that a person can manifest a different soul Age than their actual soul Age. Somewhere in his book Journey he discusses this phenomenon at length, saying that one could even manifest a more mature soul Age, as well as a less mature soul Age, than one's "true" soul Age. For instance, a Mature soul could be heavily imprinted with Old soul perceptions by Old soul parents. It was obvious to me that archetypically the spectrum of seven Parts of seven Centers corresponded to the seven Levels of the seven soul Ages (and to the seven levels of the seven Planes) according to this Law of Octaves. For instance, it could be said that the Emotional Part of the Intellectual Center correlates with Second Level Young soul Age (and the Second level of the Third Plane). (Shepherd departs from Yarbro's names of the Planes, and I feel the need to do this also, so that is why I am not naming it here. The original names of the Planes seem to have been at least partially borrowed from Theosophy. BTW, has anybody ever asked Michael about Helena Blavatsky?) Because of the way I understood Centering and the Parts thereof, I took a cue from Shepherd's comment about soul age and surmised that one can manifest a Centering in False Personality that is not one's true Centering. So the moral of this paragraph is: get unstuck from your false Centering if you want to be happy and healthy with yourself and others. Last night I read the tenth chapter of Jose's book Earth to Tao. In my opinion, a lot of the animal body functions that are being attributed to the Instinctive Center properly belong to the Sexual/Physical/Lower Moving Center. (I correlate the Physical Center with the lowest ("root") chakra (including the genitalia) and the Instinctive Center with the "heart" chakra.) The Instinctive Center does not correlate with the Physical Plane; it correlates with the Fourth (Neutral) Plane (or maybe with the fourth (Akashic) level of the Fourth Plane, I am not sure.) I feel that the name given to this Center by Gurdjieff or his teacher (Michael?) has been somewhat misleading. In the past we have seen the desirability of changing the names of other Overleaves, so maybe that would be appropriate here. Jose/Michael talks a lot about the Instinctive Center holding past-life memories, among other things, and that makes sense within my understanding of the nature of this Center. Theoretically, ideally, the "Instinctive" Center is the combination/assimilation of all the other six Centers, but it also goes beyond them in a way. I see its primary positive attributes as health and wholeness - ease rather than dis-ease, balance rather than distortion, fluidity rather than stuckness. That is why I like to call the positive pole of the Instinctive Center, "+Spontaneity". My experience is that I have to relax the tumult of the egoistic lower Centers by passing through the restful Instinctive Center before I can access the higher Centers. Yoga and meditation and massage and certain kinds of music and other such serene "spiritual practices" serve this purpose. The published teaching that the Higher Moving Center can provide routine access to the other higher Centers has never felt quite right to me (it's untidy). Once again, it just seems to me that the teaching about Centers has been muddled heretofore, because there has not been an understanding of the pure abstract archetypes that lie beyond all the various manifestations. Another thought. Maybe we could get some fresh channeling on this. Recently I read in some of Sarah Chamber's new sessions where Michael said something to the effect that they do not try to override the biases of the channel. When I read this, I thought, "Well, of course!" because I remembered another statement of Michael that I have Validated, namely that "Essence is never, we repeat, never coercive." I would add the words, "or intrusive". I know that my Essence hovers ever so gently in the background, solid as the rock of Gibraltar, non-judgmental as Agape -- waiting with infinite patience for me to seek it while letting my stupid little ego run amok to its heart's content! I bet if we act like good Skeptics in the positive pole of +Investigation and interrogate Michael like they have suggested we do, we could get some clarification and/or correction. (As an aside, I do not think the Michael channels will ever get together and come up with a "party line" or "official" dogma, but I do think that information closer to the "truth" will be teased out as time goes by. I would like to think that the "truth" will be Recognized and Validated collectively when we see it. Because of my own past experience in a religious cult, I think we have a good thing in this teaching that we have an abundance and diversity of Michael channels, and that Michael themselves do not claim infallibility and omniscience, and that none of the channels puts themself on a pedestal. Chances are slim that this group will develop into a cult that follows the entrancing charms of a charismatic personality rather than the promptings of Essence.) Namaste, Philbert "Tao produced the One. Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:48:55 -0700 This is a bit off-topic, but an update. Some people from the list are asking me how the trip I took my birth-mother Sheila on to Germany to see Mother Meera went. :^) So since I talked about it a few months ago on the list when I was feeling pretty devastated that I'd just found Sheila and she probably only had a few more months to live, I'll tell you a little about what happened. (FYI you can see who Mother Meera is at http://mothermeera.com -- Michael has been channeled to say that Mother Meera is an Infinite Soul.) I went with Sheila and her husband Jeff to Germany at the beginning of this month. Sheila had never flown before so she was kind of panicking on the airplanes, but being between myself and her husband, she braved the journey. Her cancer had been getting worse to where she was taking Vicadin, as little as possible, for the intense abdominal pain and she could only work half a day before she was exhausted. We arrived in Frankfurt the day after that bad train crash where I think 98 people died. That was very sad. We'd travelled for about 20 hours and so Sheila and Jeff were really tired and went on to Dornberg where Mother Meera's ashram is, and I'd already decided I wasn't going to go with them. I got invited by friends to visit, and I felt I'd be intruding on Sheila's process anyway. Besides, she and Jeff were looking forward to this being like the honeymoon they never had--I didn't want to hang out with them! LOL! So, they went to see Mother Meera. I went and saw some of Germany and Switzerland on fast trains. It was gorgeous. I had no idea what I had been missing in the US. I'm talking about the best bread, cheese, and chocolate I ever had. I don't understand why we don't have that kind of stuff here. Did you know that the cows in the pastures there actually do wear bells around their necks? (Dave, don't you dare!!) LOL! I couldn't believe it.... The Alps are beautiful. I never did adjust to the 9 hour time difference. Six days was too short of a trip. Anyway, I met back up with Sheila and Jeff for the return flight to the US. Sheila looked radiant. She said she felt so much better. They told me about the places they visited and how they couldn't eat the food served at the pension because it was too salty. They managed to get by well even though they spoke no German. Sheila didn't want to tell me her experience with Mother Meera, because she said she felt it would take some of the magic away. That was OK with me, I just hoped that she was feeling better. :^) I guess she might tell me sometime, then I could tell you about it. She's eating well again, and seems not to have the pain she did before. She told me she really believes in spiritual healers, so I don't doubt if a miracle could happen, it would happen to her. I don't know what happened though, and she's still going to see her doctor and they are doing some ultrasounds on her. I hope they might say, it's "unexplained spontaneous remission" or something....But I don't know yet. I'm just really relieved she's feeling better and I hope it lasts. I really want to thank you who sent us your prayers and best wishes. I feel very fortunate. :) :) Love, Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 00:49:32 -0700 Greetings, J J Tan. I have read various books on Carlos Castaneda, and I know that I saw his site mentioned on one of the spiritual web links. I am not sure which one it was, but if I run across it again I'll e- mail you the information. You seem interested in the assemblage points which shift the reality to other
realms or worlds. There is a book which describes many worlds and gateways to
access them. It extremely fantastical, with instructions and descriptions of
such worlds. Valdemar G. Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 09:03:24 -0400 I just wanted to toss in here that Michael has described the 7 levels of the Physical Plane as INFANT, BABY, YOUNG, MATURE, OLD, transcendental, and Infinite. These are the passages moved through in the same way we might move through mid-astral, or higher Causal, etc. I think the levels might be misunderstood in that they are some sort of dimension or something when a lot of times Michael's "levels" are more like states or perspectives. (Although sometimes a Young Soul might feel like they are from another dimension-- hee hee). I know these are referred to as Soul Ages, but the "soul age" of Michael would be "mid-causal". They are at mid-causal due to their own lessons and perspectives. Just a thought. Am I misguided or misunderstanding? be good, otterly blue Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 10:05:52 -0400 {long bitchy-ish post warning} I know, I know,... I'm at the tale end of this whole thing, but I thought it was hilarious that someone would say that Vegetarians tend to crave for sweets and junk food!! First of all, how many carnivorous people do YOU know who shun sweets and junk food? I don't think that was very accurate. I have noticed that those I know who claim they "need" the meat are referring mostly to their need for convenience, not protein, since we need relatively very little, and it won't come from complete proteins anyway. Changing your whole eating habits isn't just about "looking for what to eat", it's about wanting to change. I stopped eating meat in eighth grade because I had finally realized it wasn't necessary. It never occurred to me before that it was an option. No one could ever answer my questions while just a toddler as to why the very teachers I had (the cartoons, stories, lessons, fables, etc.) were all animals, but we would burn them up and put their dead bodies on the table to tear apart. (think of the message we unconsciously absorbed THERE!) (sorry) So, anyway, I just wanted to post in the middle (the end) of all the debate that for would-be vegetarians and for those concerned about our planet: vegetarianism is easier than ever And as for the debate over the "reality" of our planet: I think it's safe to say that if you are in any way debating this issue, you are a part of that reality. I don't think when Michael or Seth said that we create our own reality they meant that to ignore what you created it would go away. But, on the brighter side, things ARE changing. In the years I've been rescuing animals, been vegetarian, and for all living rights, I've seen nothing but progress. I mean progress literally, and in that even though vegetarianism/non-human animal rights is the issue, the consideration of it sparks a debate over compassion, not meat eating. No one wants to be bad, so the debate cloaks that. I'd rather us be bickering over how to be more compassionate (even if it looks stupid), than how to blow up a world. But, to be fair, I've had more carnivores get upset and lash out when in the presence of a vegetarian, then the other way around, asking "why!!!", "WHY?!!", and bringing up the whole routine of "who would you save in a burning building, your dog, or your kid?", "plants feel pain, too, so what's your point?" , "if you were stranded on a desert island with nothing to eat but meat, what would you do?", so on and on and on... To aspiring vegetarians, your responses to these would be that the rescue of a child in a burning building has nothing to do with whether you go through a Drive-thru at MacDonalds; that is an extreme circumstance and has nothing to do with food choices (I'm referring to both --tee hee!). As for the pain of plants, I believe this to be true, but compassion has to start somewhere. every time we take a breath, something dies because of our needs. We are talking about alleviating UNNECESARY CRUELTY, not life. And the "stranded on the island thing", well, that's just pointless; who knows what we would do, and most likely we'd kick into survival mode and eat anything anyway. We are NOT in survival mode here, we still have plenty of time to choose what we eat. Well, I just felt left out of this whole thread because I've been so busy, and then I'd get ALL riled up reading the input! So, this was my meager contribution. ASSAULT AND BATTERY be good, Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:12:01 EDT Hi Everyone, The latest information from Michael has them in the 5th level of the causal plane. I guess all this teaching is getting them somewhere too! Victoria Marina Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 10:24:35 -0500 Go Michael! Phil Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:00:17 EDT In a message dated 98-06-18 10:10:28 EDT, Otterly writes:
I know, I know,... I'm at the tale end of this whole thing, but I thought
You risk life and limb with this thread, Otterly. ;-p
Well, I just felt left out of this whole thread because I've been so busy,
Well, as you could probably tell from the heated debate it caused, it's a controversial issue. Regardless, I enjoyed your post. Thanks for commenting. :-) Dave - "I think I can, I know I can. I'm the tofu man." Blech. God, I hate that shit. Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:12:53 -0500 ********** Weather Report ********** ********** Lesson of the Week ********** [This following section is channeled information from the questions and answers period of the chat. Many answers to individual questions have 'messages from Michael' that may apply to everyone else, or a 'teaching'. Although I use my own 'judgment' about what to condense and what not to, I like to believe that Michael 'guides' me in the process.] Q: If pain is caused by not letting go of some negative experience, then
the pain of fibromyalgia needs to be looked at thru different eyes? -- Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 17:16:16 -0400 Just one more contribution?
Meat Is Murder
*this song makes me so sad when I hear it, with cows crying in the background and a saw blade screaming... that's the reality we ignore. I have never been to a slaughter, but I have a feeling, that just cuz I haven't seen it, doesn't make my animal friends' pain any less. This whole thing will be one of Earth's Last Holocausts. little boy blue Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 01:46:03 EDT I've been enjoying the discussion about centers. I believe that we can and should use all the centers, but that our "centering" is the center that is most "forward" in us, that first engages with the world, that we respond from when something outside ourselves occurs. My understanding is that our primary centering, like our other overleaves, is generally fixed for life, and that we can access any of the other centers through the "parts" of our primary center. We might internally spend more time in another center, even a higher center, without using it as the "front door" into our personality, without reacting with it. Balancing our use of centers means not being "trapped" in just one part of center, even though we tend to use it more. The trap is a vicious circle, a short circuit, that sends the reaction back to the primary center rather than onto another center for processing. Balancing centers means we use whatever center is appropriate in the situation, even if we always start at the "control board" of our primary center. BTW, one's habitual part of center can more easily change during a lifetime, and some people use more than one part fairly equally. Yarbro does say that the cardinal action axis center (called "moving") can be a primary center, the only one of the higher centers that can be. Yarbro called the ordinal action axis center "sexual"; I renamed it "physical," because of the obvious charges around the word "sexual." This, too, can be a primary center. I find that they are similar, and one tends to go into the other, but the ordinal center is a more small-scale reaction or excitement, whereas the cardinal is a reaction of the body as a whole. As Phil pointed out, higher-center experiences, although by definition concerning the bigger picture, are not necessarily intense, life-changing moments. I first heard about manifested soul age from JP Van Hulle and Aaron Christeaan. I didn't change the names of the planes used in Yarbro, although in one passage, from some very early channeling, they are named differently. I used the names that seemed to become standard: physical, astral, causal, akashic, mental, messianic, and buddhaic. Other non-Michael systems leave out akashic, and use etheric as the second plane, and I've seen other arrangements as well. A first for me!: I've channeled about 4000 Michael Reading charts, and just got someone with 100% male energy. (I haven't met this person, but I'd like to.) Before that, the highest male energy was 91% on my charts. All the best, Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 09:51:05 EDT In a message dated 6/19/98 1:46:52 AM, Shepherd wrote:
>I believe that we can and should use all the centers, but that our "centering"
Okay so based on what has been discussed, whats the difference between
one's attitude and ones primary center with respect to the overleaves? Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 04:32:03 -0400 Shepherd wrote:
> I didn't change the names of the planes used in Yarbro, although in one
The Etheric Plane is a higher level physical existence. The Etheric plane contains the pattern for the lower level physical forms. Much lower level physical healing can be done at the Etheric and Astral levels.
> A first for me!: I've channeled about 4000 Michael Reading charts, and just
Mine is 85% male... and all too often it feels like I'm all edges and planes. When I feel this way I need to be around some female energy for about 30 minutes to "round" myself so-to-speak. -- Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 14:13:08 -0400 In a message dated 6/19/98 1:46:52 AM, Shepherd wrote:
>>I believe that we can and should use all the centers, but that our "centering"
(Taking time to finally participate in these threads!) Shannon, I've always understood and described the Center/Part as this: The Center is how you "receive/absorb" experience, and the Part is how you express it back to the world. They might even be called the Input/Output instead. (there are probably better words, but just use these for now) The Attitude is sort of the angle with which you SEE/perceive life, not necessarily how you EXPERIENCE it, and since the Attitude is Intellectually governed, it's more about your Insight/Reasoning path; i.e. do you find Insight/Reason through Ideals, Realism, Skepticism, etc.? So, following that model, it helps explain why my Intellectually Centered/Emotional Part friends have more OUTBURSTS of emotion since they do not have the OUTPUT "voice" of the Intellect, just the Emotional formlessness that's basically mute. They (the Intellectual) are quite clear (most of the time) with where they are with themselves INTERNALLY, but to try to communicate that world to an Emotionally Centered/Intellectual Part person (who requires words as OUTPUT with clarity and fluidity, compartmentalizing feelings with speed and comprehension), can be really crazy. The Intellect gets all pissy and emotional while the Emotional person stays calm and can't understand why "we don't just talk this through". It's the Input/Output, or Centering, difference. I could go on with examples of the other combinations, but I'll wait to see if anyone is interested. Traipsing, Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:10:14 EDT Can anyone explain how a linear concept like "soul age" can apply when as Seth likes to put it, we experience everything in time simultaneously? In other words, all of our lives happen at once, not back to back as in a linear progression. Dave Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:34:51 -0400 Hi DAVE ( ;-) ) Well, here's my take: I like to use our BODIES as the metaphor: To understand the SIMULTANEOUS vs. LINEAR concept just think of your body's tools. The whole body (simultaneousness) exits regardless of what limb you are focusing on (a lifetime) to use at that moment. You Left Hand (another life) does not fall into the past just because you are writing with your Right Hand (your present life), at least as far as looking at the entire body (simultaneously). Then, the PROGRESSION OF SOUL AGE, must be like learning about/experiencing your tools: When you focused on "crying out, expressing joy and fear, wanting mommy/daddy!" (infant soul?), your legs didn't disappear; when you learned to walk, and interact (baby soul?), it wasn't like your hands hadn't existed; when you used your hands for getting a job (young soul?), it wasn't like you hadn't a heart; when you embraced another (mature soul), you probably already had a mind; when you used your wisdom (old soul?), it seems that you might be using your "body" with much more comprehension and unity, ALL the tools (or, at least, more). So the PROGRESSION (linear soul age) is a measurement of the increases and building of the awareness and cohesiveness of the tools of the body which always existed (simultaneousness). And I don't think I have to explain that this is very simple and just generalizations to get an idea across, so don't everyone start asking what a person does when they have no legs, or arms, or mind?! And don't try to be funny by saying that your first job (hands=young soul?) was doing high kicks in A CHORUS LINE, so "did you skip a soul age?"!! hee hee more often than not, Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:48:08 -0400 Oh, I forgot to mention that when I've asked for Number of Lifetimes, or a person's "immediate past life", Michael has always qualified their response with the note that they are only able to give a RELATIVE number or the "past life" based on the present position/perception of the Personality. They say that the number of past lives is not static and depends "from where you are looking", which, apparently applies to your immediate past life also. They have explained that our lifetimes resonate with other lives like notes, and sometimes lifetimes aren't even accessible to them if the resonance isn't relevant. They seem to be "opposed" [my projection] to scanning lifetimes like a photo album, too. I guess it's kind of like memory; you know, how you can remember almost all the details of certain events of your own past, depending on where you are in your life. And sometimes, out of the blue, you'll remember something because it was triggered by a relevant thought, event, sensation? Anyway, thought I'd share that too! little snot, Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 13:56:45 -0700 Dave -- Here's some of how I perceive it: Note though--I define Essence and Fragment a little differently than you might have seen before. Essence I see as our whole self--the essence has a space within an entity, defined by its casting. Fragments though, are what we are incarnate and in between lives--each essence can have up to 12 fragments, or physical plane souls, around at any time. I'm not sure why it's 12, but this resonates with me from the sources I got this from (one of them being Michael.) Well, that's another topic. I'll go on to your question. Time is a phenomenon of the physical plane. It does not exist as we know it on the other planes, where our essences are typically hanging out as we go through our incarnational cycle as fragments of (or sent by, pieces of) essence. I believe essence resides in the mid-astral and upper-astral most of the time while we are going through an incarnational cycle. I think what Seth is saying, and what Michael has said too, is that our essences are timeless. But in order to incarnate into the physical plane, our essences must choose a timeframe on the planet to do the cycle within--it's not like we are always here on Earth, in the physical plane. So I think, we as cadres, entities, and individualized essences, came to Earth to experience a particular timeframe, and that the cycle would "progress" as it were, appearing to us that it followed chronologically, past, present, and future lifetimes, even though it's really just one piece of the whole picture. We can access past lives more easily than future ones, I think, mainly because that is the way our minds are patterned to work--we look to our past to define our present to shape our future. I don't think we need to limit ourselves in this way, but most of us do most of the time. You could even think of connecting with your Higher Self as connecting with a "future self," if you'd like. Connecting this way to your "future self," I think shows you your potential--what you are becoming, and accepting it into yourself takes you a step closer for your whole essence, towards the re-integration with your entity on the upper-astral (where it is already within the entity--but we just don't perceive it here like that because of our living in the limitation of time.) Time is one of the tools we use to experience individualization, a very human condition. :) Becoming more multidimensional all the time.... Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 17:58:41 -0400 First off... what we call soul age really isn't an age... it's the collection of experiences accumulated by essence via each of its incarnations. Age, with its connection to time, is a misnomer Second... soul age isn't linear. The incarnations jump all around through time according to the needs of entity, essence, and the lower astral beliefs/illusions of the evolving fragment itself. Third... one of the limitations of this lower physical existence is our physical inability to move through, or perceive, back and forth through time the same as we move through, and perceive, space. It's just one of our mental and sensory limitations is all. It comes with the territory so to speak. Fourth... from higher levels of perception our lives can be seen to happen at once, or linearly forward, or linearly backward, or in any manner the perceiver chooses. Time exists there but its "perception" is not limited to one direction as ours is here and now. I hope this helps. -- Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 23:43:50 EDT A while back, someone on this list suggested that I contact the nationally syndicated radio show, "The Edge of Reality with Ken Dashow," about being interviewed. Thanks so much for the suggestion. I'm going to be on it tomorrow night, Saturday, June 20, at 5 p.m. Pacific Time for about an hour. You can call in with questions and comments at 800-545-2007. I've left messages asking how you can find out the station it plays on in your area, and have not yet received an answer. Their syndicator is United Stations, I believe, if that helps. They might have a web site, as does the show itself. Another acknowledgment: Ed suggested a book that I bought from Amazon that I'm excited about. It contains 5 simple yoga-ish exercises that work together to get our chakras spinning properly and keep us from aging, they claim. I've started doing them, and I really think I feel something. The book: Ancient Secret of the Fountain of Youth by Peter Kelder, forward by Bernie Siegel. You can access Amazon from most pages on my site (http://summerjoy.com). Best, Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 03:42:22 EDT Thanks for the responses. I was thinking along those same lines, but the additional info was tremendously helpful. Dave :-) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 22:23:58 +0800 Valdemar wrote on 18/6/98 7:47 am:
>I have read various books on Carlos Castaneda, and I know that I saw his
Thanks, I only know the "official site" of Cleargreen Organization. Please let me know of other sites.
>You seem interested in the assemblage points which shift the reality to
Thanks. I'll see if I can find that book in Borders. J J Tan Date: Sat, 20 Jun 98 15:17:31 UT Shepherd wrote:
"I believe that we can and should use all the centers, but
Otterly wrote:
"The Center is how you "receive/absorb" experience, and the
_________________________________________ Thank you both, that was most illuminating and helpful! Dick, I'm on a hunt for wherever it was that I found the statement that intellectually-centered people can take two years to understand their feelings about an event. I don't remember if that was specifically emotional part of intellectual center (which I am). Have to disagree about music. Listening to it is definitely an emotionally-centered experience, but I think playing it gets the moving center too. My experience, anyway. ---<-{@ Jody Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 11:36:11 -0700 Hi there! My name's Stacy E and I've been studying the Michael material for a few months now. I picked up Shepherd Hoodwin's Journey of Your Soul on an impulsive visit to a Barnes and Noble when I saw the book and decided it was time to learn about this Michael thing I'd heard of before. I had read Michael's People a couple of years ago but did not resonate with the material. But reading Shepherd's book was a pivotal experience, and I became so facinated with the elegance of the system for describing personality and soul. In the quest to better understand who I am I've studied a lot of other systems such as astrology and Myers-Briggs, but this one really brought me to a very useful place of self-understanding. I got more Michael books, surfed all the Michael internet sites, tried to self-assess what my role, overleaves, etc. are, then finally asked Shepherd to do a Michael reading chart for me. And I was amazed at how close the chart came to what I had already thought about myself after reading the books and trying to understand the teachings. Here's what he came up with, so you can see where I'm coming from: I'm a 7th level mature scholar, priest essence twin and casting, goal of flow (I guess I needed a vacation!), mode of caution (I did deliberate for quite some time about my introductory posting to this list, but at least I'm doing it!), attitude of pragmatist, intellectual center/physical part, chief feature of impatience (kind of challenges that goal of flow and mode of caution, wouldn't it?). 55% female energy, frequency of 42. Martial body type. And oh, yes, the cadre/entity--4th cadre (Shepherd's system), 7th entity. Actually that is something I want to bring up. I noticed from the archives that people that mentioned their cadre numbers wrote that they are in the 3rd cadre (again, Shepherd's system). I was wondering if anyone in my cadre is drawn to the Michael material? Additional information about me: I'm 34 years old, work as a physicist at a Navy lab in the middle of the Mojave desert in California. Sun in Libra, Moon in Aquarius, Cancer rising. My husband was channeled as being a 2nd level old artisan, also with a goal of flow (nice to have the same goal, huh?). We play tennis or lift weights during our lunch hour, try to take vacations to some exotic tropical vacation spot, and we have no plans for children, but we have 2 Great Danes and a macaw that serve as loveable surrogates. We have even shown one of our Great Danes, but the young-soulness of such endeavor is sometimes too much for us, even though we enjoy the opportunity to show off our beautiful dog. My primary hobby (besides extensive study of metaphysical topics) is music. I'm keyboardist in a local rock and roll band and I find that to be a lot of fun. I can see where being a part of a close-knit group like that satisfies the mature-soul desire for relatedness in me. Anyway, thanks for listening, and I look forward to being a part of this list! Stacy Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 18:05:45 -0700 Shepherd, I've been listening to your interview on the web-site you posted. That is so cool! I really enjoyed the articulate and well-grounded way you presented the Michael teachings there. Congratulations! (You go -- woo-hoo!) :^D Love, Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 01:34:18 EDT Yes, I listened to the entire interview as well. I thought Shep did a good job considering the format of the show, and the number of commercial breaks. I was amused with the one call from a Seth student. He kind of reflected the experience I've had with other Seth students. They tend to be very inflexible, and unwilling to accept other schools of thought. I've had nothing but arguments whenever I've mentioned the Michael teaching to them. In fact, this week I was debated on the Seth list about Unconditional love being a goal worthwhile of attaining. Can you believe it? Since when is Unconditional Love something to be debated? ;-p Dave Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:13:14 +0800 Jody wrote on 20/6/98 3:19 pm:
>Have to disagree about music. Listening to it is definitely an
Well, let me first state that I am a musician by trade, and am intellectually centered & emotional part trap. I will hesitate to say that listening to music is *definitely* an emotionally centered experience. We experience differently. To me, some tunes or tone colors can "trigger" my emotional center immediately, though mostly I have to process through intellectual center. While playing music, it is possible to experience it via "moving" center, but mostly I still need intellectual center to process. (does that mean intellectual part of moving center?) And yes, this is just my intellectual center deal out puzzles and having fun. :-) J J Tan =====
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