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Michael List To: michael-teachings-l@spiritweb.org Hello All... I'm a "newbie" here and was wondering: What is an overleaf? Thank you... Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 08:27:19 -0700
The changes are being done very consciously to help bring the teachings into the mainstream. We do appreciate that changing the names can be confusing, however, necessary if the teachings are to become more widely known. Since younger souls are very much afraid of anything that implies reincarnation or such "weird" stuff, they will not listen at all to a teaching that speaks only in old soul terms. Sonny, I'd suggest you also subscribe to the many newsletters available if you can. Your questions will take a long time to answer, and even more time to really comprehend. Start with the basic overleaves first in understanding them well. Shepherd has a Michael glossary on his web site, and many of the books have glossaries as well. There is lots of new information coming all the time that has not been published yet. There is a book devoted to body types...see the web site for full info. About emotions and illness: the Stevens have an excellent series of tapes devoted to the Nature of Emotions. Barbara Taylor Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 11:55:57 -0500 I recall someone saying that a transcendental soul could choose to manifest early in someone's life. Could it happen during childhood? And if so, what could be the reasons behind this? Actually, are there ever circumstances where a soul is displaced early in childhood, maybe not by a transcendental soul, but just by some other soul? Like maybe 2 souls want to switch or something? javex. er...Melissa. Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 15:37:06 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-09-01 05:53:24 EDT, Kate McMurry writes:
The information I received was one of my first attempts, so I'm quite certain it was heavily filtered. In fact, I was hesitant to show it to her, but she was keenly interested. However, it can't be said that I do not stand by my friend with wamth and compassion. I am one of her strongest supporters and will be there for her regardless of her life condition. At any rate, I will put her in contact with you. Although she already peruses a FM internet list, I believe the additional networking will be beneficial. Connecting with like minds will probably be very therapuetic. Thanks for the info. Dave Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 20:58:18 -0400 Barbara Taylor wrote:
I'm realizing by the nature of many of the questions asked recently here on the list that my assumption that almost everyone on this list is here because they are Michael "fans" (that is, have, at the least, read one or more basic Michael books and have a basic grasp of the "theory," or at best are Michael channels and strongly versed in the Michael teachings) is apparently incorrect. That being the case, I need to restate my offer to do overleaf readings in this manner: (1) I am only available to do free overleaf readings for people who understand the Michael teachings and won't need an interpretation of the "jargon." I don't mind doing the reading itself, but I'm afraid I don't have time for explanations. Fortunately, there are dozens of Michael books and hundreds of tapes available (many can be ordered through the Internet) which fulfill this mission very well. Note: I also would *not* recommend to any "newbie" obtaining a paid Michael reading until you have thoroughly read at least onel basic Michael book, e.g. The Michael Handbook. If you do not take this step first, you will be paying the channel from $90-150/hour to tutor you in concepts you could easily have picked up from reading a $9.95 book--not very cost effective. :) (2) I will only post my "freebies" here on the Michael list. Though this week I broke my own (until now unmentioned) rule about this and did several readings by private e-mail, in the future, I cannot do any further freebies except on the list. The only reason I am offering them is for illustrative and learning purposes by promoting discussion and comparison of Michael readings. Michael recommends that we get more than one reading on our overleaves and I am willing to be either a first or second reader for people who already, as I say, understand to some extent the Michael teachings. Kate :) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 20:04:37 -0500 I've been gone for awhile and didn't realize that Kate had made this offer on the list. I would *love* to have my overleaves done.. I hadn't done so yet because I wasn't willing to pay for it. I thought that I'd spend some time instead trying to figure it out for myself before I had any readings done, but if anything, the more I think about it, the less certain I am about being any particular role etc. I think I'm giving myself a headache so if someone's willing to do a reading for free, I'll go for it.. needing no explanations, Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 01:01:44 -0400 *****LONG POST WARNING***** Dave Gregg wrote:
Dave, I'm sorry if it sounded like I was saying you don't care about your friend. It is obvious that you are deeply concerned. :) I only wanted to tell you that the phrase, "You caused it," is *not* helpful to the sufferer of a debilitating disease, no matter how warm and well-meaning the emotion behind it. :) In many ways, I believe, having someone we love suffer from *any* kind of loss, whether it be loss of health, money, or someone they care about to death, leaves us, any of us, reeling as to "what the heck to say or do" to show our compassion, empathy andconcern. For example, though many people might realize that the very last thing to say to someone who has just lost a beloved pet it, "That's too bad, but you can always get another one," people who lose their pets seem to hear this awful phrase a *lot*. :} In truth, a person who employs such a tactless, hurtful remark may very well love the mourner, and be very sympathetic to his/her loss, but by making this statement demonstrates that he/she is clueless to the fact that pets are not fungible items, easily and instantly replaced. :( One of my favorite sayings is, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." :) It is remarkable to me how much hurt can be inflicted by well-meaning intentions. :) In this regard, anyone who has never suffered themselves a debilitating illness, particularly one which is regarded as "mysterious" and even "incurable" as fibromyalgia is, understandably, may find it hard to relate to the sufferer in a way that the beleagured sufferer regards as sufficiently "sensitive." :) (And we sick people are notoriously edgy, tense and brittle. < sigh> ) OTOH, someone who has actually suffered and recovered from a particular debilitating disease, in this case, fibromyalgia, can tell you pretty clearly how they (in this case *me* <G>) would respond if handed the "you are causing your own suffering" reading you got. I know that I would have responded exactly as your friend did, by becoming hurt...and offended. Since you seemed very confused about her response, I was hoping I could give you a little insight as to why she feels that way. Insight is often more easily gained from a third party who has no direct emotional issues in a relationship, I've found. At any rate, your friend has already responded to my post, which you forwarded to her, and states that yes, indeed, I comprehend (having gone through it myself and received frequently from fellow old souls the "you caused it" statement), how painful it can be to hear. :) FWIW, my dh and I, both old souls like you and your friend, channeled something on this whole phenomenon that may or may not shed some more light on the subject for you. It will at least add a psycho-spiritual element to the whole discussion and a distinct Michael flavor. <G> At any rate, my dh was having much the same problem with *me* that you are having with your friend. Here is how we pieced together for ourselves a solution, using the combined abilities of a Scholar and Sage-Scholar both in Observation <G>: The dynamic of offering "sympathy/empathy" goes something like this: one's loved one is suffering (for whatever reason). You love him/her and are very concerned. You very much want to do something to help ease the other's pain. But if it is a long-term problem (for my dh it is anxiety and depression, as we've noted herein, extremely common in old souls, esp. ones in self-deprecation as my dh is, and for me it is the fibromyalgia), what can you do? Unless you are a remarkable spiritual healer specializing very successfully in energy work, the odds are you have no "magic wand" to offer the other to heal herself instantly. The odds are, too, if you are an old soul, that though you have spent your life in various ways being "spiritual" you are living in a "glass house" with lots of cracks in the windows. So when you "cast the stone" of, "You are causing your own illness, why don't you just stop?" to the other person, you are not yourself a shining example of following that particular bit of advice. That is, chances are, you are not an exemplar of self-actualization, hope, joy and peace. <G> Most old souls, in my experience, are very wounded (and this has already been a topic among us old souls here). Thus, when one wounded old soul says to another wounded old soul, "You caused this (terrible) karma," it isn't very inspiring. Because the finger you are pointing can instantly be turned back on you. Invariably old souls giving such advice themselves are embroiled in long-term, seemingly insoluble problems. And there's another issue at stake here, too: I tend to think that the only people old souls, esp. late old souls, can truly respect are transcendental or infinite souls. And you sure don't run into them every day of the week. <G> But then, I may be overgeneralizing my own problem in this regard. <G> To get back to my point <G>, my dh and I worked out a phrase to say to each other that entirely gets one out of the problem of "What the heck should I say to show sympathy?" We have memorized this simple phrase and we religiously use it. It is: "I'm sorry you feel bad." This may sound like an empty social greeting, but not when it is coupled with you freely transmitting to your loved one all your undiluted empathy, care and compassion. When you do this, believe me, the person you love will receive the "message of love" that is your truest "good intention" loud and clear. You can also accompany this phrase with a hug, if touching is something that is comfortable between you and your loved one. There is a bit more. A mutual understanding needs to go with this phrase. It can be so solidly worked out in advance between you and your loved one that you don't have to keep saying it, or you can say, to be doubly clear, repeat this second phrase after the first one each time sympathy is required. This phrase is: "Please let me know if there's anything you'd like me to do to help you." Fini. Our whole relationship has changed in wonderful ways after we channeled this simple approach to the "sympathy" problem. How and why? This is what we have come to believe from experience, observation and channeling: When someone we love is hurting and we are powerless to help them (due to insufficient knowledge, or due to the fact that this is a karma the person is in, if you want to use that language, that has a time frame that we have no control over, or whatever), frequently in our powerful need to help, we land unwittingly smack-dab in the moddle of the dangerous ground of the "Karpman Drama Triangle." It looks like this:
How does it work? When we offer unsolicited (or even solicited) advice (such as channelings, warnings, advice, even good, solid information that wasn't asked for by the sufferer), we assume the position of Rescuer. In the process of our doing so, the person we are "rescuing" is automatically thrust into the one-down position of Victim. This is what one might call an "automatic, unconscious, cultural script/karma." Meaning, though none of this is articulated, the dynamics are very real. And it is an especially combustible situation when either of the two parties involved has a Chief Negative Feature of Self-Deprecation or Martyrdom. (Note: be warned, Michael tells us, and my observations seem to confirm it, that old souls seem to highly favor self-dep in particular.) The major problem with assuming the position of Rescuer, then, is that this position carries with it the "karmic script" of ego investment in the Victim getting "fixed" or "rescued" by our intervention (which we are assuming is "wise counsel," or why else would we have offered it?). Unfortunately, the person cast in the Victim position is rarely, or at best, very briefly, grateful. More often than not, they feel insulted. There are many reasons for them feeling insulted. The primary reason is that they are, in fact (no matter how much we deny that this could ever happen because of our good intentions, high respect, etc., etc.), being patronized, treated as if they were incompetents who are incapable of solving their own problem. (As one who has spent a huge percentage of this lifetime and many others in Rescue mode, I speak as the proverbial, "it takes one to know one." <G>) Another reason the friend we are hoping to help may feel offended is this: when someone, anyone, has a problem of any nature, their problem will require effort and *time* to solve. And when the problem is a truly debilitating one, such as a mental, emotional or physical disorder (anxiety, depression, fibromyalgia) or life situation (bad marriage, awful job) no one, no matter how "powerful" or "wise" (not even a transcendental soul, IMO, though some may argue with me on that one <G>), will be able to walk in and instantly fix their friend's problem. (And we probably aren't even meant to, because we all come here to learn, and the learning comes through experiencing various karmas in our own way, at our own speed.) I think all of us old souls know this instinctively, but when we, any of us, fall into the seductive trap of Rescuing, we aren't acting from higher intuition--or even "common sense." We have put our foot into the trap of an "automatic pilot" social karma and the script, as I say, is set. When we as Rescuer speak our piece, in the moment, wel feel a brief rush of power (esp. heady when juxtaposed with the powerlessness of watching the loved one suffer). But this is, sadly, immediately followed by an even worse wave of powerlessness than before when the loved one, now cast as Victim, responds not with the happy (or even tearful) gratitude we (unconsciously) expect, but rather with the "ingratitude" of mistaking our motives. (How can he/she accuse me of insensitivity when I am *bleeding* inside with empathy at her pain?) But, truly, nothing less than the person grabbing onto our advice with the avidness of a drowning swimmer clinging to a flung life preserver would suit us--no matter what to the contrary we may claim--to ourselves and our friend. Again, that's the karmic script. What we expect to hear in return is, "What insight! What wisdom! Thank you so much! This is the very kernel of truth that has been evading me all these years. I know now, with your profound insight, I can go forth and (sin) be sick no more." But what if the person doesn't answer that way? What if they are lukewarm or even negative? What if they claim, hurtfully, that we are offering easy advice to a complex problem? That we "just don't understand"? We feel hurt, misunderstood....angry. And in an instant we leap from the (seemingly) benevolent position of rescuer to the avenging angel role of Persecutor. <G> Depending on our overleaves, persecution can look either aggressive in a violent (loud, mean, angry) way, or aggressive in a passive way (guilt tripping via sad wounded looks or statements made with hurt, rather than anger, such as, "I was only trying to help you."). What happens to the Victim when we start persecuting? He or she immediately is either hurt, angry, or both. If angry, the Victim suddenly starts persecuting *us*. And in another flash, *we* become the wounded Victim playing opposite our friend, the unjust Persecutor. I've found via a great deal of observation and practice that the only way to keep from getting hopelessly enmeshed in this triangulated death-trap is to never venture there in the first place. (My other favorite saying, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." <G>) So, when people are suffering ("doing a karma"), then, to sum up, I've found (out of hard, hard, hard experience <G>), that the fact that I'm late old soul, a very accurate channel, and a person who was born a good observer (observation mode) and has spent years of formal education training that skill (social, psychological and educational study and hands-on research), plus the fact that I'm an irresistably mouthy (IOW, typical <G>) Sage, makes it horrendously hard for me to stop myself from telling, without permission, what I see and know. Side bar: And what do you know, to a great extent I'm doing that right this moment. <G> So, if you are reading all this and feeling offended with me, Dave, you are experiencing directly and personally exactly what I mean about the Karpman Drama/karma triangle. ;> To wit: I'm leaping in here and offering, undoubtedly, far more "insight" than you asked for or wanted. And by doing that, I'm possibly, to some extent (though mitigating it by admitting it openly <G>), casting you as "Victim" (the "unenlightened") to my "Rescuer" (the "enlightened," the one "in the know"). Just to further keep this discussion on a Michael track, any of you Sages out there, esp. Sages like me who, due to being Old Soul and therefore highly observant and empathic, a tendency strongly increased by my choice of overleaves, added to my intense Scholar bleedthrough (making me an encyclopedic collector of information <G>), please chime in so I don't feel so alone living out our particular curse (esp. according to Scholars <G>). I hope I haven't just gotten Sagey self banished from yet another discussion forum. ==o Kate <G> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 02:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Below is a fascinating and thought provokingly NEW soul age quiz, guaranteed to show your progression of years and experience on the physical plane. Metaphysical researchers have dedicated years of exhaustive research to develop the marvelous and informative tool you see before you. Please answer each question as truthfully as possible, and have fun in this excitingly new exploration. The answers are at the bottom of the page. TAKE THE SOUL AGE QUIZ Have you had a lifelong problem with drool? Do you have a tail? Do you fervently believe that Neil Diamond is the scourge of humanity? Does this look like a man being eaten by a South Florida alligator? =8-O->-- If Carl Sagan told you that the Earth was going to break free from its current orbit and whirl smack dab into the middle of the sun, would you open up a Gatorade concession stand? Do you go through life pushing doors marked "pull?" Do you become sexually aroused while perusing magazine advertisements sporting super fast hard drives with huge storage capacities, and have you ever been caught in a compromising position while in the bathroom with a PCWorld magazine and rapid wrist deployment? Has God ever appeared to you in a dream and told you to take accordion lessons? Have you ever worked at a roach motel and been fired for eating the tenants? Do you currently hold a position of authority in the Rectal Itch Society of America? (Bonus) Have you ever eaten "toe cheese?" QUIZ RESULTS Negative affirmations: You smell bad and look worse. You tend to drool, and you think in simplistic phrases like, "Run, run...chase the cat, chase the cat...hump the leg, hump the leg." You are a: INFANT SOUL 1-3 Affirmations: This demonstrates that you have an unhealthy inclination
towards conformity. Example: If your friends drank abscess fluid and lathered
their nude and tumescent bodies with tomato paste, you'd probably do the same. 4-5 Affirmations: You are essentially boring, drab and awful. You possess a
painful lack of imagination, you think sex is foreplay, and you're as
stimulating as a wet grave on a Sunday afternoon. 6-9 Affirmations: This indicates that you have a deeply embedded anal
retentive personality. You have a strange fixation with sock drawers, you tend
to feel guilty because you probably ARE guilty, and you were no doubt raised by
lab mice. 10 Affirmations: Congratulations!!! You are perfectly normal. You are a
leader in your community, and are perfectly suited for entry into the political
arena. ;-p Dave - not a Pepper, dammit Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 02:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Dear Melissa -- about transcendental souls coming into children, and various other ways souls can switch around.... What you are describing could be a situation that is quite uncommon generally, but less so in old souls, though still very unusual. (In the '90s unusual old soul situations will be much more common than ever before.) In Shepherd's charts there are a few, maybe a dozen or two out of thousands, where two different essences (rarely more) share, by agreement, a body. They can blend their energies together (this would most commonly be a pair of essence twins) or they can have an arrangement where one or the other is in the body and the other is close by. There is no real limitation as to how the essences set up such a situation, since it's all free choice. Obviously they have to be very good and close friends! What you describe also sounds like an odd version of a channeling agreement, as if the child pulled in another being in the way channels do. It would be an odd thing for a child to do, though. As to transcendentals, I wouldn't add anything to Joya's material. I do believe if it were a T. coming through, the energy and light would be remarkable and striking and anyone who saw the child would be marveling. It's certainly possible that such could be the case. I would add that the next T. and Infinite soul manifestations are going to be in places where they are needed most....generally not here. Third world, China, India, Arab world, places where large populations have no access to the new age teachings or outlook as we do. In general, these are places where few people can read English or other European languages. All the best, Ed Hamerstrom. Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 03:43:00 -0400 (EDT) At JP's class tonight she told us about some of the new material they have been getting....this is red-hot stuff! There are about 12,000 "energy circles" here. This term is equivalent to Shepherd's "cadre groups". They are groups of 12 cadres. The cadres are in a circle or ring structure, as follows. They have made a physical model of this, which I'll try to describe: Consider first the basic entity structure. Imagine a long rectangular strip of 49 X 7 small squares; seven larger squares in a row, each of them having 7x7 = 49 small squares. Take three such strips and join the edges, so you have a triangular shaped beam. Now the three sides are not evenly aligned.
|_______|
Each of the lines above has 7 underline characters, and they are one unit staggered. If the three rectangular strips are joined at the edges the end is sort of "jagged". The jagged front of one such entity unit fits into the other end of the next one, like sections of triangular pipe. Seven entity sections make a cadre and 12 cadres complete a unit. There is enough curvature in the structure so that the 7 X 12 = 84 entity units make a circle. Entity #1 of a cadre has a red color and the lowest frequency, #2 is orange, and so on through the rainbow. #7 is violet and highest frequency. There are 7 X 49 X 3 = 1029 basic positions in an entity. Additionally, about 15% of fragments are "wild cards" who are outside the structure but are attached. I don't recall the details, but the fragments within the structure are linked by about five chakra to chakra connections with their adjacent neighbors, while the wild cards are linked only by two links, I think. There is no set pattern to how different roles arrange themselves within this setup. **Fragments choose their roles before they choose their place in the structure.** There's nothing mechanical about this. All the best, Ed Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 04:04:00 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-09-02 03:43:44 EDT, Ed writes:
Great info, Ed!! I just purchased one of Shepherd's books, so perhaps this will finally begin to make some sense to me. Dave Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:29:24 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 8/29/97 4:15:27 AM, Kate wrote:
Kate, Re Michael conference, i believe it was decided that there would be no private channelings, but there would be mini readings available from all channels. but since I am only reading minutes of steering committee meetings, and haven't been directly involved mayve I remembered wrong.... blessings, Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 11:42:26 -0400 Dear Michael Listers, I would dearly love to see everyone's overleaves (whoever would like their's posted) available via the "Michael Teachings List" page. Now and then I read an interesting post by someone and I wonder what their overleaves are. Like Kate McM's recent and very interesting and long <smile> Old Sage post about "Michael and Illness". I wanted to find out Kate's overleaves again, but did not feel like searching past posts to find where she had posted them. It would have been great if I could have gone to one particular place to find people's overleaves. BTW: Kate why in my heart do I continue to call you "Caitlin"? Toward this end, several days ago I posted a suggestion with the web address of the page where we could do this. The web address of that page is fairly long and I guess subject to typing errors. So here's an easier way for us to get to our own individual member account page. 1. Go to the Michael List archive page in whatever way you normally use to read the Michael List postings. 2. Click on the words "Michael Teachings List"in large letters at the very top of this page. 3. This next page has a listing of everyone on the "Michael Teachings" list. If you click on a member's name you will be taken to their personal page containing the personal data that they have entered there themselves. 4. This "Michael Teaching List" page also provides entrance to one's own editable personal data. Near the top of the "Michael Teachings List" page click on the words "free membership" at the beginning of the first paragraph. 5. This will take you to the "Membership" page. Use your membership login and password to get to your own data page. Rene' sent each of us an email with this data when we individually "joined" SpiritWeb. 6. This membership page is titled "MEMBER ACCOUNT: Your Name 7. Edit your page to include whatever data you'd like us to know about you. There is a data entry space called "Profile" wherein you can enter your overleaves and any other stuff you'd like us to know about you. 8. You can bookmark any of the above pages to make them easier to get to. Now, about freebie overleaves. On the other hand I also have done several freebie overleaves for those I have felt drawn to from my "heart" center. Others have just asked/emailed me with personal questions. Most have thanked me. Some have just disappeared into wherever land. I too will do freebie overleaves for anyone on the "Michael Teachings" list as long as they are "into" the overleaves already and understand the definitions and what they mean. And I will post these overleaves to the Michael Teachings list. As much as I may like to, I just cannot do a full overleaf session for everyone who wants one. This brings up the point of what to believe when getting different overleaves from different people and sources. I once did the overleaves for a person who had gotten overleaves done from two different well-reputed Michael channels. Both of these overleaves were different from each other, and mine were different from the first two. All I can say about this situation, whenever it happens, is for the subject to go with whatever "resonates" to them from within the center of their being. When receiving conflicting overleaves try each one on and see if it fits for a few days. When you pay close attention to yourself in this manner you quickly learn what fits and what does not. Plus it's good practice in self-observation. The posting and comparison of channeled overleaves to the Michael List can be good practice for those of us who are relatively new to channeling overleaves; and a good accuracy check for those of us who are more experienced at Overleaf Channeling. I love guys. Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 08:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Whoa Dave!!! Finally, the kind of material I've come to EXPECT from you comes into the LIGHT, man! You are officially being inducted into my Old Soul Assylum as its first memeber, soon to be a regualr feature on my infamous, rogue, Michael Teachings web-page. Congratulations!! :^) (You are definitely the most hillarious Artisan I know.) Re: Kate's reply to "Michael and Illness" -- You GO Girl. :-D That's one of the best descriptions of the "victim pattern" and how to deal with it that I've seen in a very long time! Thank you for sharing that.... Don't let your sagy-ness get YOU into self-dep now, huh? BTW: I'm back on-line, at work, but at home I crashed my <insert explitive here> computer and can't get it to boot up anymore, and when it does, the modem's not working right..... So please excuse any late replies. :-D Admittedly, I need some serious help with that computer. Later.... Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 12:15:17 -0400 Kenneth Broom wrote: [clipped]
I meant "I love you guys." I love you women too. :>)# Sheesh, I think I'm gonna have another one of those weird weeks. No, I'm not, to both questions. :>)# BTW: I just found out that a lady in my condo bldg is an angel. I should have guessed so from the amount and intensity of the light she continuously puts out. Peace and Light to You and Yours, again. Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 13:38:03 -0400 Dear Melissa, Below please find your overleaves per Kenneth Broom,
Comments: Please try to stay in the positive poles of all overleaves, especially in your centering. You are not your emotions. You "experience" emotions. You can "feel" emotions. You are "not" emotions. Check out "why" you may feel a particular way, and if you want you may "choose" to "move" in another way than you first intended, depending on the basis for the initial emotions. Good for soul-searching, eh? Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 14:39:46 -0400 Jennifer Slatten wrote:
Dear Jennifer (30 yrs old, Female, Musician, Gemini),
Comments: You will, in these days of rapid advancement, probably move into the seventh level before you reach 40 years of age, and then into 1st Level Old before giving up your body this time around. It is suggested that you do not try too hard to accelerate your growth beyond what you're already doing. Your "Goal of Growth" will provide you with all the growth incentives and situations that you can handle without becoming overly stressed and distressed. On your conscious level try to stay in the positive poles of your overleaves. That's why you chose the "Pragmatist" attitude. Why you felt awkward...? Sometimes it is harder to receive a gift than to give one. Try to graciously receive the gifts that your Higher Self has for you. You'll enjoy them thoroughly. :>)# Thanks for the peace. God Bless You, and Date: 2 Sep 1997 12:17:34 -0700 Dear Kenneth, Thank you SO much for the information. I have to say that I was slightly disappointed that I wasn't an older soul (is that a strange reaction?) but your advice not to go too fast with my evolution is right on the money. I find myself constantly drawn to new sources of information on the web, in books and as I read, and begin to understand new things about myself and the universe I invariably get distracted by any number of things. I am currently trying to finish "Conversations with God" (which I am really finding wonderful) but as I get further into it, I have to start over, I've read the first 5 chapters twice. My boyfriend sped through it and is already using its principles in his life! (He must be much older than me)... for some reason this makes me jealous..... I do get some strange emotions when it comes to the Universe. I guess its all part of the learning/growing process. I feel that my 30's will be a great learning decade for me and I am looking forward to it. I hope I don't have to wait too long to shed my body this time. I am a diabetic and I don't relish the thought of complications in later life. Again, thank you for the insight and if anyone has any ideas as to why I get jealous of those who are more enlightened please let me know! I'd like to get to the root of it and heal it. Peace to all, Jennifer Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 14:22:13 -0500 Wow...! I never even considered the Warrior role before. I swear I looked at every other role and for some reason never looked at Warrior. I have a tendency to do that. I sometimes will *not* see the most obvious things. Didn't I read that it can be a warrior characteristic to blunder along a path, missing details along the side due to a single-mindedness to reach the goal? If so, that can definitely be me. I must agree with something someone said earlier, though. I think that the most important thing I've learned when it comes to Michael teachings, is soul age. I've always been extremely aware of my old soul characteristics, (luckily I have never been depressed about it - if anything I've always felt a bit of pride when it comes to not meeting others' expectations - I want to laugh maniacally - I love it). Uhh.. where was I.. oh.. but even though I've known deep down that I'm ok, there is *nothing* like hearing it from someone else. That there's a perfectly acceptable reason and purpose behind it. Well, anyway. Thank you Kenneth. You have definitely given me something to chew on for awhile. In fact, now I feel like I have to start from the beginning again! Especially with the overleaves..especially with everything! This is *so much* fun. heh. warrior huh.. Melissa. (who is now beginning to understand her obsession with 70's kung fu flicks). Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 15:38:22 -0400 Jennifer Slatten wrote:
Hi Jennifer, My wife Kate did a reading for you, too, although it was mixed into the
middle of a larger post (hey, she's a Sage, give her a break Ken's reading: BTW, don't mistake being an old soul for being enlightened. I know several old souls that are far less "enlightened" than my baby soul aunt. Also be aware that although you may "younger" than you would like, in actuality you've probably been around for multiple cycles, so in effect it doesn't matter if you're a mature soul or whatever vs somebody else being an old soul. You may have more cycles than them! ;))) (Just in case you wanna hold onto that competitiveness. ;))) Christopher Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:05:54 -0400 Jennifer Slatten wrote:
Absolutely part of the learning/growing process. Be like yourself, not your boyfriend. You are as wonderful a fragment of the Prime Creator as your boyfriend is. Your disappointment and jealousy and your "older than" and "better than" comparison issues are to be expected from a "Mature" soul. You'll get past these issues in your own good time. CWG is a wonderful book, and not so easy to absorb in two readings.
And then again maybe you'll "learn" how to really enjoy being here. Maybe in your 30's you'll find out the "growth" reasons why you became a diabetic, and maybe you'll learn how to correct the imbalances in your body, and to live your "wisest best" in each moment of every today. Today is tomorrow's cause. Last December I was hospitalized for hyperglycemia due to a blood sugar of 1100. The hospital people could find nothing else wrong with me. Today the only time I give myself an insulin shot is when I "way overdo" the sweets. I've completely cut out the half-gallon per day of heavily sugared iced tea and the dozens of chocolate chip cookies and the Hagen Daaz "Pralines and Cream" ice cream that I had OD'd on. When I eat right and exercise enough, my blood sugar stays between 120 and 170 all by itself. No complications at all. I am 59 years old and I have dropped my weight from 245 to 220 and am still losing. Anything conceivable is possible. So what's probable? If you don't like it then change it. Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:18:39 -0400 javex wrote:
OK, my dh just told me someone else did a reading on you, so I'm not going to read further and just see what I get (although Hoodwin and Kay Kamala like to see first what others get, so that is a possibility for a way to check as well): Melissa, reading done 9/2/97 by Kate McMurry: Soul Age: Mature, 7th level Please ponder on it and give me feedback as to whether or not it resonates with you. On your Essence Twin, I get: Kate Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:25:16 -0400 JoyaPope wrote:
Thanks! Of course, if I post readings here, I won't have Kay to check, so if anyone is an experienced channel and wants to check the readings or otherwise respond, that would be great. :)
Joya, I just wrote to Kay Kamala about this and she said it would be appropriate to ask the channels how to arrange a private reading with them. They can then set up with you a time and place that is mutually convenient. If not at the conference, then by phone works very well, in my experience. Kate Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 16:31:31 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-09-02 07:55:02 EDT, Kate McMurry writes:
My, my Kate. Your "word" is never done. ;-p In fact, I'm sure when
Congress calls a fillibuster, they'll call you in as an advisor. Thus, I have
decided to call you AT&T..."always talking and talking..." ;-p Seriously, Kate. I am in no way offended by your salient words and thoughtful suggestions. I completely agree with your assessment on the sensitive issue of a suffering loved one or friend, and I greatly appreciate the time you took to properly address this topic. Your wisdom has provided me with another perspective to help me deal with the frustration one feels when a loved one is in pain, and our hands are tied. Like most men, I'm a "fix-it guy," who feels supremely frustrated when someone is in pain and it's beyond his control to alter the situation. However, deep down I realize that we are not here to play someone else's game or change their rules. We must travel our own road. I thank you for your insights. :-) Dave Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 15:43:50 -0500 okay, well, I have to ponder all of this, not to mention go to work, but here's what I think: body type: sounds right. I know I am more martial than anything. and young looking. too young looking. role: I know I'm not a sage. I really* know that. heh energy: yep, I would say I definitely have more focused energy than creative. I really gotta look at this goal, mode, attitude stuff. Centering: I'm definitely in the moving part of emotional center. Chief feature: I've always been torn between Impatience and Stubborness. toodles for now,
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 17:01:41 -0400 Lori Tostado wrote:
Whew! That's a relief. Well, my self-dep has been strongly encouraged by outraged syssops who get tired of my "essays." <G> Kate Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Hi David, and welcome. :) David Eaton wrote:
An overleaf is one of the essence and personality traits described by Michael most of the Michael books (which you can find listed at: http://members.spiritweb.org/michael-teachings/books.html), which include such things as your Goal, Mode, Attitude, Centering, Chief Feature, and you can see the listing of them at: http://members.spiritweb.org/michael-teachings/overleaves.html and take the personality profile at: http://members.spiritweb.org/michael-teachings/personality.html. There is a link there on how to find your Role as well. Also: BTW: to the person who mentioned that the goal that used to be called "stagnation," then "relaxation," and now they were calling it "flow," I have to say that I like this change, to "flow," it has much fewer connotations than any of the other terms and I'm going to change it on my overleaves.html page to reflect this. Thanks! Love, Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 17:26:25 -0400 Dear Kate McMurry, I hope you are enjoying this as much as I am. This was my first time trying to do overleaves without a birthdate and birthplace connection or some other kind of deep connection with whoever I am asking for. Please note that I always cleanse myself and my setting and declare for truth before channeling. When I first tried to do Melissa's overleaves the immediate response from
Michael was Melissa who? I couldn't find any data on her other than "javex",
so I replied the " To tune in on Jennifer I used the data from her SpiritWeb Member Account (30 yrs old, Female, Musician, Gemini), after which the connection became steady and steady. For each of the above ladies I asked for confirmation of the truth of the received overleaves, and received it. There have been times when I have had to re-do the whole thing. After I saw that you and I were different on the overleaves for both Melissa and Jennifer. I asked Michael how this could be. They said that for all of the Michael channels, sometimes, if the identification isn't clear, there can be mistaken identity regarding the fragment being referred to. This allows the possiblity of the "right essence/wrong parallel reality" or "right essence/wrong incarnation" or even "wrong essence/right reality" or "wrong essence/wrong reality". The possiblities for error are great. Therefore when asking for a set of overleaves, "specific" identification data is required. Plus... because there are many discarnate fragments and entities calling themselves "Michael", and they all can obtain overleaves when asked, it is also possible that even an unintended "Michael" can be inadvertently called on, and they can pick up on the wrong fragment altogether. Not to mention the channel himself inadvertently not being as clear as he/she needs to be. There is also the difficulty in accurately channeling discrete data as distinct from ideas and concepts. That is why I use pendulum charts of the overleaves instead of writing them down as I get them in my head. There is no way for a channel to "guarantee" his/her channeled overleaves. The only person who can do this is the fragment his/herself via his/her own resonance with the received overleaves. Kate, I'd truly appreciate your telling us how you yourself tune into Michael and overleaves. I'd like to know if I am missing something in my process. God Bless Us All, Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:02:21 -0400 javex wrote:
Melissa, if you can, compare the two readings you've gotten, and if you've gotten any other, please post it here. Maybe we can engage in the fascinating exercise of reconciling three competing readings. <G> Kate Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:03:51 -0400 Dave Gregg wrote:
Dear Dave Gregg (aka sauerwine) Below please find your overleaves per Kenneth Broom, September 2, 1997
Comments: Lots of Love to ya, my brother. Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:12:54 -0400 Dave Gregg wrote:
Believe me, this is not the first time I've heard remarks like this. <G> I've never had any doubt about my overleaf reading that I'm a Sage. <G>
Dave, you're a treasure, and I'm sure Rhonda knows it. :) Kate Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 15:14:42 -0700 Hello Everyone, This is my first posting to the list, and I have a question: I have seen people list their roles this way : Scholar/Sage, for example. I had my overleaves done by Shepherd and my chart reads that I am an Honorary Artisan (meaning, I think, that I have a lot of artisan influence, such as essence twin and task companion. My chart also says that my position resonates with artisan). So, when someone says they are a Warrior/Scholar, do they mean the same thing as when I say I am an Honorary Artisan? As far as other overleaves go, I am a second level old priest, growth, passion, spiritualist, emotional center, arrogance, lunar body type. By the way, Brin, I also am cadre three(Shepherd), entity four! I am glad to be on the list and, at least at first, will probably listen alot and say not too much. :-) Love, Audrey Yobst Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:19:58 -0400 At 12:49 AM +0000 9/2/97, Kate McMurry wrote:
I would love to have a reading done if you can manage the time. I have been wondering for a while now how old my soul is and why I came here but have not been able to find any answers. Maybe this can help. I realize that it really doesn't matter how old my soul is because we're all progressing in evolution together, but it might be able to help for what I'm stuck in right now (paranoid emotions, lack of purpose, anger, etc...) And if not stuck in those things I can help other people out a lot more than I can now. I don't know what info you need to do this kind of reading but I'll give you the basics: I was born on 4/16/75 in Eastern PA, I'm an Aries male, if you need anything else let me know. I really appreciate that you do this for people. I'm sure it helps people find a focus in all of this chaos. Thanks again Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:29:02 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-09-02 13:10:30 EDT, Lori Tostado writes:
But...but....but I was being serious...;-p I'm sorry to hear of your computer woes. I'm having problems once again with the stealth procedures at Spirit-Web. I've apparently forgotten my login for the archives. Man, I'd like to wrap my fingers around the neck of the scholar who thinks we need a password for every endeavor in life. I just know that my bladder will explode one day because I got locked out of an undecoded bathroom. Anyhow, does anyone know how to acquire my login number? Dave Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:39:45 -0400 To all who are getting their overleaves done: For the sake of all our common growth in overleaf comprehension and channeling would you please post (in detail if possible) your resonance/reaction comparisons of each set of overleaves you receive. Immediate reactions as well as more deeply considered reactions would be also good. Thanks loads for these. Anymore overleaf channelers out there? We could use all the overleaf comparisons/feedback we can get. It'll help us all in the long run. For those of you who are not channelers your comments about the differences in overleaves for the same person are also welcome. I've got to go now due to a computer programming client of mine coming by for a report at 9:30 pm tonight. I'll return as time permits. The mundane forever calls for its share of attention. This has been and is much interesting fun. Thanks, Kate, for getting this started. Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:44:20 -0400
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:49:38 -0400 (EDT) Dear George: When people use the convention of RoleA/RoleB it's saying your role is the first one and your essence twin is the second one. Shepherd uses the convention of calling one an "honorary" whatever in the roughly 1 in 7 case where the person's essence twin's role and the role corresponding with the person's primary cadence position number are the same. In your case you have an Artisan ET and position #2 which corresponds with Artisan. The idea of "Honorary" is that the person has a really strong secondary role influence to go with the essence role. My general impression is that everyone shows influences of more than one role. A typical pattern might be
If the essence twin is not incarnate, one might have:
50% - one's own role
Hope this helps. Where are you in Oregon, and are there other Michael folks around? All the best, Ed Hamerstrom Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 16:42:54 -0700 (PDT) On 31 Aug 1997, Barbara Taylor wrote:
That is so cool--I learned about the Meyers-Briggs in high school and found it rather interesting, but after finding Michael, made MB look like kindergarten!! Too much of modern psychology just leaves out the most important part--the SOUL. Is it just because they want psychology to look more like "science" than "religion"? I so hope that with the Michael Teachings we can bridge the gap between spirituality and psychology!
Me too!
Yes, I do that too, as you do :^) . Why do you say it "raised a few eyebrows" when you decided to list all the Michael resources? I don't see why anyone would make a big deal about it unless they were into secrecy or felt that the teachings were some sort of mystery school where you had to be initiated or something, heheh. I just saw all these sites promoting themselves so I wanted to kind of put them together where people could find them all together.... And now, look what the more well-known channels have decided to do: An "Association for the Michael Teachings." I just hope it turns out to be more inclusive than exclusive, which often happens to associations of this type. I think it's a good idea to bring the Michael channels together like this....
Glad you're here! Love, Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:13:07 +-1200 I would greatly appreciate it if someone could do mine for me! Love Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 20:14:32 -0600 Hello, everyone. My name is Gloria Constantin, and many thanks to Lori for the initiative and audacity to put up this list so we could all find each other. I guess this is a relatively new chat forum, and everyone's being really nice. When we get to know each other better, perhaps familiarity will breed a bit more looseness, ey? I am a seventh-level old sage, honorary priest, from cadre 3 (or 1), entity 4. Vibration is 60, male/female energy ratio is 47/53. I apparently chose Flow as my goal this lifetime, which often feels like inertia. Mode is power, attitude is spiritualist, chief feature is impatience, centering is intellectual going to the emotional, and body type is saturnian with secondaries of solar and venusian. So there! Now you know almost everything you need to know. For you astrologers out there: March 30, 1951, 8:46 PM, EST, Bronx, New York. Yes, I'm a 46 year old Aries--Capricorn Moon, Scorpio rising, Pluto exactly conjunct the Midheaven. (That's the power mode signature). I live in Boulder, Colorado with a bunch of cats. (Other than that, I'm single.) Some are visitors from the Humane Society. I am a foster parent for the Society. Oh--I love cats. I grew up in the South Bronx, in New York City, a very painful place to be. (Mom is Puerto Rican, dad is Cuban.) I saw much violence done to both people and animals, and my family situation was also very dangerous and violent. Michael tells me I agreed to deflect the brutality (my words)to my mother from my dad onto me. I took a lot of it on for sure. But then I eventually got away, and the spiritual quest energy really opened up. I have, as all of you have, been looking for the etiology of self. The where, the how, the why, yes, dammit, The Great Big WHY of it all. And it's taken years to get a real handle on it and discover Higher Self as the real me. It's been a long journey of readings, books, books, difficult experiences, and lots of dialogue with the people "out there." I know this: if you want the answers, you will get them. I have had no career interests until the last odd years of my life. Currently, I work for a publicly traded company that's rocking and rolling its way to destruction. I work in investor relations, communicating the financial stuff to the financial community (stockbrokers, investors) about this company, which by the way, puts on Renaissance Faires. But am I there, singing, dancing, playing gypsy astrology reader? Nooooo....I'm pretending that I really understand price to earnings ratio, book value, stock valuation, and the wall street mentality in general. Not to mention the 10-Q's and K's. Oh, it's laborious and BORING. But I'm grateful that at this soul age and in Flow, I can still support myself. It does feel tenuous, though. I mean, impulsive Aries that I am, I could just walk out. I may move to Taos down the road... I'd like to eventually have a practice that uses both the horoscope and the Michael teachings. I'm doing it now, unofficially, and have been unofficially doing astrology for some time. The M. teachings is the whole canvas, the big picture. Everything else is overleaves, as far as I can tell. For you guys that keep asking for readings of your soul role, age and overleaves--you can get a chart reading done for §20-§40 from a channel. You don't need to go the whole conversation with Michael route initially. When you get your chart and start looking at some of the books, (Michael Handbook is a good start), you'll have a much better idea of where you're coming from. And going? Maybe! You can email Shepherd Hoodwin at ShepherdH@aol.com or Joya Pope at JoyaPope@aol.com for a single page chart of who you are and what cadre and entity you hail from. Give Kenneth a break. Ooops--didn't mean to speak for you, Ken. You come across as a really soft and gentle essence. Would love to meet you sometime. Would love to meet you all. Let's gather up at the Michael conference in November. What do you say? Love, Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 22:52:43 -0500 I want to thank Kate and Kenneth for the readings; I will definitely have
another one done. This really has given me a lot to think about. The thing that most hit home today in regards to the overleaves would
have to be the "moving part of the emotional center". This is
something I have always been aware of, but I never knew what it was,
exactly. I hope I'm getting this right -- I'll give an example-- Melissa/Javex Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 01:19:49 -0400 Here is Leslie's reading, in case anyone else want's to post a reading and cross check. Leslie, if you could give feedback on to what degree you resonate with it, that would be great. :) Soul Age: Old, level 5 --
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 01:28:15 -0400 Gina Matthews wrote:
Gina, I'll try to get to it. Can you tell me what Michael books you've read so I'll know your level of experience with it? Thanks. Kate Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 01:32:00 -0400 Gloria Thanks for your fascinating post. You and I are the same age. :) I look forward to meeting you at the Michael conference. :) Kate Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 02:10:39 -0400 Kenneth Broom wrote:
It's interesting, for sure. I "ran" a Michael topic in the New Age BB on GEnie several years ago. In fact that's where/how I met my dh! <G> There, in the Michael topic, in another channeling topic and in a numerology topic I did free readings for people until I got too busy with other obligations to keep on with it. That kind of channeling is good practice. And I have no trouble with it because I've done long-distance channeling for some time. But as to doing Michael channelings for people, the problem was that most of the visitors to the topic knew little or nothing about Michael so I had to make a rule that I would only do a reading if they would commit to reading a basic Michael book first. Otherwise it is a waste of my time. :) BTW, all, I may not be able to continue doing readings much beyond the next few days, at least for a while. In fact, I may have to go off the list entirely. I have a book I really, really need to finish writing and I find this group irresistable. :) As you've noticed, I tend to get lost in Sage-y conversation (can't shut up, IOW). <G> I'm like an alcoholic who can only resist temptation by keeping the booze out of the house--when I need to get back to my fiction writing, I have to stop writing e-mail so much. :)
This makes sense. There is always the fact, also, that *no* channel, no matter how good, is 100% accurate. To be 75-80% accurate is pretty darn good. Let's say you and I are both 75% accurate on our readings--this means that 25% of each of our readings is wrong. By law of chance, we could be wrong on different things, too. So that could account for some discrepancies, too.
I agree with you. I *always* write down everything I'm channeling. No way can I remember all that. I keep all my Michael stuff organized in files, too.
Very true. It's always good to check within yourself, too. An old soul warrior friend of mine got two different readings from two very respected Michael channels with tons of experience. She pondered the differences for some time until she felt very clear within herself what were her actual overleaves. For my own overleaves, so far I've only had them channeled by myself, cross-checked by my dh and Kay Kamala. I'm going to try and see if I can't make arrangements for some more readings when I go to the conference in Nov. (No one will be doing readings there, but it's a good chance to see who you resonate with the most for reading purposes by meeting face-to-face.) I'd highly recommend to anyone who is confused about what overleaves are truly theirs to get the book Personality Puzzle by Jose Stevens and JP Van Hulle. It has a series of questions you can answer. Based on your answers you can quickly get a very good idea of what your overleaves should be.
Kenneth, my "technique" is very informal. I channel like breathing. It is something I do all the time, all day, every day. I made an agreement with the universe in 1976 that I would live by my intuition, and after making that declaration, I found that ever since, when I *don't* follow my intuition, life is a mess. Not to say that my intuition always leads me toward joy and light. Don't I wish! Sometimes it simply points out to me karmas I can't avoid. And relationship karmas are a real mixed bag of pain and joy. :} In my channeling, I use sound more than vision, hearing guides speaking to me. But if I want to, I can see very clearly. I have an agreement with the universe that I only speak to "joy" guides from the light. That is, guides who want to help me learn through peace and contentment rather than encouraging me to suffer. Not that I haven't had my share of suffering this lifetime--I'm in growth, such is the nature of that one! <G> However, I seem to have been born with an innate optimism that no amount of abuse can seem to shake. Sometimes I wish I could get just a bit cynical. <G> I also refuse to talk to guides who speak in gibberish. I went to a channel once years ago whose guides spoke in strange symbols and she had to give her clients a translation sheet! I didn't want any of that stuff, so I "amplified" her and informed her guides, inside myself, I wanted them, if they were so all-fired interested in symbols, to channel to me in numerology terms, since I'm a numerologist. In that way I got a semi-decent reading where otherwise it would have been mud. :} As a rule, when I go to other channels for a reading, what ends up happening is that the only way I can accurately get what I want, for the most part, is to "use" them to amplify my own channel and then channel myself what I need to find out. I try to make partnership arrangements with other old soul channels who are good, because I find it aggravating that the only way most of us old souls can ever talk to each other is attending each other's workshops and seances. IOW, paying for the privilege of being with each other. <sigh> But, to get back to how I channel, I am a "light-trance," usually open-eye channel. However, I have no need, and never have, for special props, quiet, mood music, special lighting, any of that. I can channel in the middle of a crowded mall or driving in a car. This may be because back in the mid 70s I trained myself to write poetry under any circumstances, a kind of artistic "channeling," and I think the training spilled over into spiritual channeling. <G> Whatever, that kind of training has stood me in good stead as a mother--a lifestyle with endless distractions! The only thing I do *not* like when I am channeling, unless I have purposely asked for it as an "amplification" technique, is for another person to stand at my back. Almost invariably, unless I get a sudden "vision" out in front of me, my guides "enter me" from behind. I have tried the standard recommendations of grounding myself to the earth, using circles of blue flame, swords of light, holding various stones, esp. crystals, etc., etc. before channeling, but I notice no real difference in the quality of my experience than if I just plunge in at once, no preparation except to say to the universe, "I am now channeling for X about X." My dh and I were discussing something interesting today that your post made us think of, to wit: Does one need to connect to Michael, and only Michael, to read overleaves? The answer I got was a resounding, "No." If I know about the overleaves, and my regular guides (various angels in my case) know what I know (and therefore can utilize Michael jargon fluently), and if the Michael system is a typology that can be known and records of the overleaves all fragments have chosen are, as all knowledge is reputed to be, residing in the Akashic Records, then any channel who is in the habit of accessing the Akashic Records should be able to channel the overleaves. However...it makes sense that if one wanted to channel profound or new insights about Michael's teachings, the only place to go is straight to the horse's mouth. If any old time Michael channels have any input on this, I'd love to hear it. :) As for the how of my channeling and what it looks and feels like, when a yes/no answer can suffice, my most accurate channeling method is kinesiology. Using this means, I get a "yes" or "no" by pressing on the pointing finger of my left hand. "Yes" is release and "No" is hold. By experimentation and observation of my accuracy in channeling, the kinesiology seems to be, as I say, my most accurate method. I go down the list of overleaves until I get a "yes" for each one, and then write that down. I can also get the overleaves by just listening for a voice telling me what each one is, but if information comes to me that way, I always re-check it with kinesiology. As for pendulums or pendulum-like systems for getting a yes/no answer, I can do that, and I have many times in the past, but I am in impatience, and it's too slow for me. <G> BTW, FWIW, for over 30 years now I have been able to use *anything* to get a yes/no answer, even a branch I pick up off the ground will move like a Ouiji Board indicator for me. <G> (I hold it against the ground and it will move in specific ways for yes/no. <G>) It's interesting that Kay Kamala and I agree so much for readings, but yet she doesn't always get the same reading as other Michael channels for a given person (of course, as we've discussed, this happens a lot). At any rate, as I think about that phenomenon, I'm wondering if it might not be possible that your readings might jive with some other experienced Michael channel in the way that mine do with Kays? I think all of this is something I want to bring up at the conference in November. :) Does that help any? <g> Also, FWIW, my favorite "client" is me. <G> That is, I am my own preferred channel, because my channelings for myself (and I'm told this is unusual, many people feel they can't let information flow objectively enough for themselves) is uncannily accurate, even as to exact time frames and dates. I haven't ever tried to channel in this much detail and with as much intensity as I do for myself for anyone but very close family members, btw. (So don't anyone ask me to. <G>) Right now, and for the past four years, virtually all my channeling energy is going into writing fiction, so I don't do it for money these days. I have told the universe I want to make writing my money channel, and I don't want to dilute that. :) Kate Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 02:18:40 -0400 Kenneth Broom wrote:
Ken, I got: Old 7 -- Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 18:28:18 +0200 Dear Brin, Thank you very much for elaborating in so much detail. It has definitely contributed to a better understanding about the different roles. Brin wrote:
I too have had times like that, but I have always felt that this heightened amount of imput was not appropriate for my purposes. Now, I understand, that this kind of perceptivity is not fit for a scholar, but rather crazy-making (i.e. I do not have to be aware of a friend trying to decide which shoes to wear, or of five different probable outcomes had I taken the left turn instead of the right, etc.). I have decided to purposefully turn down the volume of those input channels which do not directly relate to the task at hand. It looks to me like we all have all input channels available, but have to learn how to fine-tune our resources in order to be real scholars, artisans, slaves etc.
It seems that a full-blown artisan is a master of integration. He is supposed to take seemingly unrelated pieces of information and craft them into something meaningful for all to see and understand (does that come close?).
Yes, they do sometimes appear like that, after all it is an art which requires quite some training before it produces masterpieces.
Yes, a scholar is made to acquire indepth knowlegde of every minute detail of a situation. She therefore limits her focus to one thing at a time and digs deeply into the heart of matters. This results in a huge pile of detailed information (which BTW I do not yet consider the masterpiece of a scholar yet) which now needs to be fully integrated (embodied) and then forgotten. For me, a fully realized scholar is someone who does no longer have to THINK, but is able to apply her knowlege automatically, because she and her knowlegde have become undistinguishable. In the end old scholars might even start looking like old artisans because with mastery comes the ability to be playfully creative.
So would I. Please come forward :-)
I think you did very well (I almost said, not bad for an artisan, but managed to hold back :-D) and I thank you for it. I have learnt a great deal about roles. BTW how did you find out about your female energy and the frequency? How can I find those out for myself? Love, Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 11:54:17 -0600 Dear Danielle: Thanks for the chunky dialogue between yourself and Brin. Such interesting and informative reading, it is. BTW, you want to know how to get your stuff? (Pardon me, Brin, for jumping in here) "Dial" ShepherdH@aolcom or JoyaPope@aol.com. These are professional channels, do it all the time for their living. Shepherd charges $40, I think, and Joya, $20. You'll get soul role, age, frequency, cadre/entity, cadence position, essence twin, task companions, quadrate position, and all your overleaves for this lifetime. At least you do for Shepherd's chart. I haven't seen Joya's, but I know she does this as well. Love, Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:22:23 -0400 (EDT) I don't want this to have a grouchy tone or to in any way be taken as rejection or negativity, but.... I don't think all this overleaf stuff is entirely good work. Firstly, I don't want my computer clogged up with endless back and forth about various people's different versions of their overleaves. It's bad enough now, but wait till a few more people, and differing versions, get into the soup. If you are channeling people's overleaves from the akashic records, as Shepherd does, you need to have a connection with the person you are reading for, at minimum the full name, perhaps date of birth, a photo, etc., so Michael, or whatever entity does the reading, can do it for the right person. It is not good work to give out someone else's akashic information. Michael, and presumably other entities, also do not want us to waste their time. In Shepherd's book there is good material on this which he channeled in answer to the obvious question of why DO different channels usually get grossly varying overleaves for the same person. I don't want to quote or restate that material here, it's too complicated. There was an important idea which came out as "structured willingness to know". Michael will be very helpful to any student genuinely wanting to learn who works with the ideas and validates them or tries to apply them in life. Michael has said numerous times that they ask students to first try to figure out their own overleaves before they ask for a reading. By working with or thinking about the material the student will get more benefit and so will michael in their activity of working with us. Suppose we have a great library and in our enthusiasm for it we tell passers-by on the street that it's really cool and the librarians can get anything at all for you and would you like to see your chart? Sure. And the librarians get tired of doing the work for people who don't really appreciate it, when there are many others who do know its value who also want to use the services. If you do psychic-reading style channeling, that is, the person is present physically, you connect with the aura and by extension to other people that are connected with the person, then the reader gets a set of overleaves and there can be immediate feedback and both parties can learn. If we were all together physically, then a discussion sorting out what someone's overleaves really are would be very useful good work. If I knew Melissa, or had enough communication to have some idea of her personality, then I could have some application (validation) value in reading a discussion of which overleaves she really has. Not knowing her from Adam, and this will be true for all the other readers here, it's a completely useless discussion. (Nothing personal, Melissa, you just happened to have the catchy e-mail name.) Could y'all have a separate board for these overleaf discussions? Can we not invite any more new people to ask for volunteer readings that will always yield conflicting results because the person hasn't done the work of reading books and thinking about the teachings? Can we stop clogging up the archives and our computers with stuff we can't relate to personally? I mean, the meaning of Melissa's and others' overleaf back and forth, with respect to the question of what should I do or say, using the teachings, is exactly what I already said. It can't ever be something like "it seems to me she has XYZ rather than ABC because of such and such" because I can't physically see or talk with Melissa and have any valid opinion on what her overleaves really are. I can't personally relate to the discussion. I could do the negative pole of artisan thing (if I were an artisan), which is to sit here and imagine what I think her overleaves are and take that as a reality to start from, but that isn't really good work, even for artisans IMHO. If we do volunteer free readings for strangers, can we do it off this mailing list and keep all the back and forths of it off the list? Once again, the point of the Michael teachings is to be more positive and less negative and to get to agape. All the best, Ed Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 13:53:15 +0000 Ed, You raise some interesting questions, and I'm sure we'll be sorting them out for some time to come, but let me just give a couple personal responses to some of the issues you touch on.
First, its called the Delete key, and you don't have to be in discrimination to use it. Looks long and boring? No tickle from Essence to scroll on? *Click*. Next?
Wait, says _who_? Just because Shepherd needs a picture, that doesn't necessarily mean every other channel out there does too. In the broader outlines of human history, I'd wager we're still at a very nascent stage of channeling abilities. Why put limits on what people can & can't do? Or how? And *waste* their *time*??
I relax, serene in the knowledge that there will always be enough librarians to serve the needs of those seeking the knowledge. I cannot say who, or to what degree the people receiving the information appreciate or value it.
Goal or process? A fundamental dilemma. Me, I tend to come down on the side of process... Ed, does it go without saying that none of this is personal? Love always, Dean Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 23:00:31 +0200 Hi folks, Ed Hammerstrom wrote:
Sorry, Ed, I have to disagree... I have been enjoying the discussion of overleaves quite a lot and am glad it is taking place on this list. Some of what I am reading here seems pretty improbable to me, but the free and open discussion provides some points to ponder. The actual overleaves of any one (or more) stranger(s) don't mean any more to me than to you I'm sure, but I find the practical problems of channeling and validation quite interesting. Personally, I would never want to channel anyone's overleaves without some form of, as you call it, psychic contact, even a question placed over the telephone is enough to be comfortable... but different channels work in different ways. I'm enjoying the back and forth about it and hope it won't be curtailed. BTW who channeled that it is now possible to pass through several soul age levels in one lifetime? That was mentioned somewhere along the way and I binned the posting not thinking that I might want to respond to it. This is one of the things I find unlikely... as I recall Jose Stevens channeled that one had to successfully do all the internal monads in a soul level before moving on to the next. As far as I understand the matter that would be about the minimum criterion... it's not a race after all, the object here is experience, not progress. Maybe we could have some discussion about this point. Cheers, Katherine Doversberger Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 14:04:22 -0700 Thank you for this post Ed. I think you're right that we should make the overleaf info more private rather than on the list. :) I hope that's OK. Love, BBL.... Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 17:33:47 -0400 Lori Tostado wrote:
Michael is about "overleaves". I was just offering my gift to the list. The stated condition was that my freebie overleaves "be posted" to the list for all of us to see and learn from. If this is not OK then there will be no more freebies from me. I want no part of this huhu (upsetment). Because I love you all I will, however, follow the consensus of the list members. Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:40:15 -0600
Seems as though the list members here who are genuine in asking for help on this are being turned down. I am a member of this list but am told I am not. I must not really be a part of you all. Maybe there is a mistake and even though Im subscribed I am still getting the messages. If this is the case and Im not really here maybe I need help to get off the list for real. But I wanted to stay, So if the list moderator would help me fix this is would be helpful. thanks Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 19:31:50 -0400 Ed wrote:
Michael of the Overleaves says differently. I have asked them. They approve.
I suggest you go to your Membership page and temporarily change your email choices.
There is no minimum. Only that Michael has the proper connection. They tell me when that happens. When I channel from the akashic I only need enough to make a clear and steady contact. I am an Akashic Orderly. I have been doing this for eons.
Incorrect. It "is" good work when and if I have their permission to post their overleaves for the good of the list members. That is one of the conditions I have already stated to the list regarding my doing anyone's freebie overleaves on the "Michael Teachings List".
Not true. There is no "time" involved. I could not channel overleaves via Michael or my own entity without their permission. > [clipped]
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