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Michael List To: michael-teachings-l@spiritweb.org Hello All... I'm a "newbie" here and was wondering: What is an overleaf? Thank you... Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 08:27:19 -0700
The changes are being done very consciously to help bring the teachings into the mainstream. We do appreciate that changing the names can be confusing, however, necessary if the teachings are to become more widely known. Since younger souls are very much afraid of anything that implies reincarnation or such "weird" stuff, they will not listen at all to a teaching that speaks only in old soul terms. Sonny, I'd suggest you also subscribe to the many newsletters available if you can. Your questions will take a long time to answer, and even more time to really comprehend. Start with the basic overleaves first in understanding them well. Shepherd has a Michael glossary on his web site, and many of the books have glossaries as well. There is lots of new information coming all the time that has not been published yet. There is a book devoted to body types...see the web site for full info. About emotions and illness: the Stevens have an excellent series of tapes devoted to the Nature of Emotions. Barbara Taylor Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 11:55:57 -0500 I recall someone saying that a transcendental soul could choose to manifest early in someone's life. Could it happen during childhood? And if so, what could be the reasons behind this? Actually, are there ever circumstances where a soul is displaced early in childhood, maybe not by a transcendental soul, but just by some other soul? Like maybe 2 souls want to switch or something? javex. er...Melissa. Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 15:37:06 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-09-01 05:53:24 EDT, Kate McMurry writes:
The information I received was one of my first attempts, so I'm quite certain it was heavily filtered. In fact, I was hesitant to show it to her, but she was keenly interested. However, it can't be said that I do not stand by my friend with wamth and compassion. I am one of her strongest supporters and will be there for her regardless of her life condition. At any rate, I will put her in contact with you. Although she already peruses a FM internet list, I believe the additional networking will be beneficial. Connecting with like minds will probably be very therapuetic. Thanks for the info. Dave Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 20:58:18 -0400 Barbara Taylor wrote:
I'm realizing by the nature of many of the questions asked recently here on the list that my assumption that almost everyone on this list is here because they are Michael "fans" (that is, have, at the least, read one or more basic Michael books and have a basic grasp of the "theory," or at best are Michael channels and strongly versed in the Michael teachings) is apparently incorrect. That being the case, I need to restate my offer to do overleaf readings in this manner: (1) I am only available to do free overleaf readings for people who understand the Michael teachings and won't need an interpretation of the "jargon." I don't mind doing the reading itself, but I'm afraid I don't have time for explanations. Fortunately, there are dozens of Michael books and hundreds of tapes available (many can be ordered through the Internet) which fulfill this mission very well. Note: I also would *not* recommend to any "newbie" obtaining a paid Michael reading until you have thoroughly read at least onel basic Michael book, e.g. The Michael Handbook. If you do not take this step first, you will be paying the channel from $90-150/hour to tutor you in concepts you could easily have picked up from reading a $9.95 book--not very cost effective. :) (2) I will only post my "freebies" here on the Michael list. Though this week I broke my own (until now unmentioned) rule about this and did several readings by private e-mail, in the future, I cannot do any further freebies except on the list. The only reason I am offering them is for illustrative and learning purposes by promoting discussion and comparison of Michael readings. Michael recommends that we get more than one reading on our overleaves and I am willing to be either a first or second reader for people who already, as I say, understand to some extent the Michael teachings. Kate :) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 20:04:37 -0500 I've been gone for awhile and didn't realize that Kate had made this offer on the list. I would *love* to have my overleaves done.. I hadn't done so yet because I wasn't willing to pay for it. I thought that I'd spend some time instead trying to figure it out for myself before I had any readings done, but if anything, the more I think about it, the less certain I am about being any particular role etc. I think I'm giving myself a headache so if someone's willing to do a reading for free, I'll go for it.. needing no explanations, Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 01:01:44 -0400 *****LONG POST WARNING***** Dave Gregg wrote:
Dave, I'm sorry if it sounded like I was saying you don't care about your friend. It is obvious that you are deeply concerned. :) I only wanted to tell you that the phrase, "You caused it," is *not* helpful to the sufferer of a debilitating disease, no matter how warm and well-meaning the emotion behind it. :) In many ways, I believe, having someone we love suffer from *any* kind of loss, whether it be loss of health, money, or someone they care about to death, leaves us, any of us, reeling as to "what the heck to say or do" to show our compassion, empathy andconcern. For example, though many people might realize that the very last thing to say to someone who has just lost a beloved pet it, "That's too bad, but you can always get another one," people who lose their pets seem to hear this awful phrase a *lot*. :} In truth, a person who employs such a tactless, hurtful remark may very well love the mourner, and be very sympathetic to his/her loss, but by making this statement demonstrates that he/she is clueless to the fact that pets are not fungible items, easily and instantly replaced. :( One of my favorite sayings is, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." :) It is remarkable to me how much hurt can be inflicted by well-meaning intentions. :) In this regard, anyone who has never suffered themselves a debilitating illness, particularly one which is regarded as "mysterious" and even "incurable" as fibromyalgia is, understandably, may find it hard to relate to the sufferer in a way that the beleagured sufferer regards as sufficiently "sensitive." :) (And we sick people are notoriously edgy, tense and brittle. < sigh> ) OTOH, someone who has actually suffered and recovered from a particular debilitating disease, in this case, fibromyalgia, can tell you pretty clearly how they (in this case *me* <G>) would respond if handed the "you are causing your own suffering" reading you got. I know that I would have responded exactly as your friend did, by becoming hurt...and offended. Since you seemed very confused about her response, I was hoping I could give you a little insight as to why she feels that way. Insight is often more easily gained from a third party who has no direct emotional issues in a relationship, I've found. At any rate, your friend has already responded to my post, which you forwarded to her, and states that yes, indeed, I comprehend (having gone through it myself and received frequently from fellow old souls the "you caused it" statement), how painful it can be to hear. :) FWIW, my dh and I, both old souls like you and your friend, channeled something on this whole phenomenon that may or may not shed some more light on the subject for you. It will at least add a psycho-spiritual element to the whole discussion and a distinct Michael flavor. <G> At any rate, my dh was having much the same problem with *me* that you are having with your friend. Here is how we pieced together for ourselves a solution, using the combined abilities of a Scholar and Sage-Scholar both in Observation <G>: The dynamic of offering "sympathy/empathy" goes something like this: one's loved one is suffering (for whatever reason). You love him/her and are very concerned. You very much want to do something to help ease the other's pain. But if it is a long-term problem (for my dh it is anxiety and depression, as we've noted herein, extremely common in old souls, esp. ones in self-deprecation as my dh is, and for me it is the fibromyalgia), what can you do? Unless you are a remarkable spiritual healer specializing very successfully in energy work, the odds are you have no "magic wand" to offer the other to heal herself instantly. The odds are, too, if you are an old soul, that though you have spent your life in various ways being "spiritual" you are living in a "glass house" with lots of cracks in the windows. So when you "cast the stone" of, "You are causing your own illness, why don't you just stop?" to the other person, you are not yourself a shining example of following that particular bit of advice. That is, chances are, you are not an exemplar of self-actualization, hope, joy and peace. <G> Most old souls, in my experience, are very wounded (and this has already been a topic among us old souls here). Thus, when one wounded old soul says to another wounded old soul, "You caused this (terrible) karma," it isn't very inspiring. Because the finger you are pointing can instantly be turned back on you. Invariably old souls giving such advice themselves are embroiled in long-term, seemingly insoluble problems. And there's another issue at stake here, too: I tend to think that the only people old souls, esp. late old souls, can truly respect are transcendental or infinite souls. And you sure don't run into them every day of the week. <G> But then, I may be overgeneralizing my own problem in this regard. <G> To get back to my point <G>, my dh and I worked out a phrase to say to each other that entirely gets one out of the problem of "What the heck should I say to show sympathy?" We have memorized this simple phrase and we religiously use it. It is: "I'm sorry you feel bad." This may sound like an empty social greeting, but not when it is coupled with you freely transmitting to your loved one all your undiluted empathy, care and compassion. When you do this, believe me, the person you love will receive the "message of love" that is your truest "good intention" loud and clear. You can also accompany this phrase with a hug, if touching is something that is comfortable between you and your loved one. There is a bit more. A mutual understanding needs to go with this phrase. It can be so solidly worked out in advance between you and your loved one that you don't have to keep saying it, or you can say, to be doubly clear, repeat this second phrase after the first one each time sympathy is required. This phrase is: "Please let me know if there's anything you'd like me to do to help you." Fini. Our whole relationship has changed in wonderful ways after we channeled this simple approach to the "sympathy" problem. How and why? This is what we have come to believe from experience, observation and channeling: When someone we love is hurting and we are powerless to help them (due to insufficient knowledge, or due to the fact that this is a karma the person is in, if you want to use that language, that has a time frame that we have no control over, or whatever), frequently in our powerful need to help, we land unwittingly smack-dab in the moddle of the dangerous ground of the "Karpman Drama Triangle." It looks like this:
How does it work? When we offer unsolicited (or even solicited) advice (such as channelings, warnings, advice, even good, solid information that wasn't asked for by the sufferer), we assume the position of Rescuer. In the process of our doing so, the person we are "rescuing" is automatically thrust into the one-down position of Victim. This is what one might call an "automatic, unconscious, cultural script/karma." Meaning, though none of this is articulated, the dynamics are very real. And it is an especially combustible situation when either of the two parties involved has a Chief Negative Feature of Self-Deprecation or Martyrdom. (Note: be warned, Michael tells us, and my observations seem to confirm it, that old souls seem to highly favor self-dep in particular.) The major problem with assuming the position of Rescuer, then, is that this position carries with it the "karmic script" of ego investment in the Victim getting "fixed" or "rescued" by our intervention (which we are assuming is "wise counsel," or why else would we have offered it?). Unfortunately, the person cast in the Victim position is rarely, or at best, very briefly, grateful. More often than not, they feel insulted. There are many reasons for them feeling insulted. The primary reason is that they are, in fact (no matter how much we deny that this could ever happen because of our good intentions, high respect, etc., etc.), being patronized, treated as if they were incompetents who are incapable of solving their own problem. (As one who has spent a huge percentage of this lifetime and many others in Rescue mode, I speak as the proverbial, "it takes one to know one." <G>) Another reason the friend we are hoping to help may feel offended is this: when someone, anyone, has a problem of any nature, their problem will require effort and *time* to solve. And when the problem is a truly debilitating one, such as a mental, emotional or physical disorder (anxiety, depression, fibromyalgia) or life situation (bad marriage, awful job) no one, no matter how "powerful" or "wise" (not even a transcendental soul, IMO, though some may argue with me on that one <G>), will be able to walk in and instantly fix their friend's problem. (And we probably aren't even meant to, because we all come here to learn, and the learning comes through experiencing various karmas in our own way, at our own speed.) I think all of us old souls know this instinctively, but when we, any of us, fall into the seductive trap of Rescuing, we aren't acting from higher intuition--or even "common sense." We have put our foot into the trap of an "automatic pilot" social karma and the script, as I say, is set. When we as Rescuer speak our piece, in the moment, wel feel a brief rush of power (esp. heady when juxtaposed with the powerlessness of watching the loved one suffer). But this is, sadly, immediately followed by an even worse wave of powerlessness than before when the loved one, now cast as Victim, responds not with the happy (or even tearful) gratitude we (unconsciously) expect, but rather with the "ingratitude" of mistaking our motives. (How can he/she accuse me of insensitivity when I am *bleeding* inside with empathy at her pain?) But, truly, nothing less than the person grabbing onto our advice with the avidness of a drowning swimmer clinging to a flung life preserver would suit us--no matter what to the contrary we may claim--to ourselves and our friend. Again, that's the karmic script. What we expect to hear in return is, "What insight! What wisdom! Thank you so much! This is the very kernel of truth that has been evading me all these years. I know now, with your profound insight, I can go forth and (sin) be sick no more." But what if the person doesn't answer that way? What if they are lukewarm or even negative? What if they claim, hurtfully, that we are offering easy advice to a complex problem? That we "just don't understand"? We feel hurt, misunderstood....angry. And in an instant we leap from the (seemingly) benevolent position of rescuer to the avenging angel role of Persecutor. <G> Depending on our overleaves, persecution can look either aggressive in a violent (loud, mean, angry) way, or aggressive in a passive way (guilt tripping via sad wounded looks or statements made with hurt, rather than anger, such as, "I was only trying to help you."). What happens to the Victim when we start persecuting? He or she immediately is either hurt, angry, or both. If angry, the Victim suddenly starts persecuting *us*. And in another flash, *we* become the wounded Victim playing opposite our friend, the unjust Persecutor. I've found via a great deal of observation and practice that the only way to keep from getting hopelessly enmeshed in this triangulated death-trap is to never venture there in the first place. (My other favorite saying, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." <G>) So, when people are suffering ("doing a karma"), then, to sum up, I've found (out of hard, hard, hard experience <G>), that the fact that I'm late old soul, a very accurate channel, and a person who was born a good observer (observation mode) and has spent years of formal education training that skill (social, psychological and educational study and hands-on research), plus the fact that I'm an irresistably mouthy (IOW, typical <G>) Sage, makes it horrendously hard for me to stop myself from telling, without permission, what I see and know. Side bar: And what do you know, to a great extent I'm doing that right this moment. <G> So, if you are reading all this and feeling offended with me, Dave, you are experiencing directly and personally exactly what I mean about the Karpman Drama/karma triangle. ;> To wit: I'm leaping in here and offering, undoubtedly, far more "insight" than you asked for or wanted. And by doing that, I'm possibly, to some extent (though mitigating it by admitting it openly <G>), casting you as "Victim" (the "unenlightened") to my "Rescuer" (the "enlightened," the one "in the know"). Just to further keep this discussion on a Michael track, any of you Sages out there, esp. Sages like me who, due to being Old Soul and therefore highly observant and empathic, a tendency strongly increased by my choice of overleaves, added to my intense Scholar bleedthrough (making me an encyclopedic collector of information <G>), please chime in so I don't feel so alone living out our particular curse (esp. according to Scholars <G>). I hope I haven't just gotten Sagey self banished from yet another discussion forum. ==o Kate <G> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 02:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Below is a fascinating and thought provokingly NEW soul age quiz, guaranteed to show your progression of years and experience on the physical plane. Metaphysical researchers have dedicated years of exhaustive research to develop the marvelous and informative tool you see before you. Please answer each question as truthfully as possible, and have fun in this excitingly new exploration. The answers are at the bottom of the page. TAKE THE SOUL AGE QUIZ Have you had a lifelong problem with drool? Do you have a tail? Do you fervently believe that Neil Diamond is the scourge of humanity? Does this look like a man being eaten by a South Florida alligator? =8-O->-- If Carl Sagan told you that the Earth was going to break free from its current orbit and whirl smack dab into the middle of the sun, would you open up a Gatorade concession stand? Do you go through life pushing doors marked "pull?" Do you become sexually aroused while perusing magazine advertisements sporting super fast hard drives with huge storage capacities, and have you ever been caught in a compromising position while in the bathroom with a PCWorld magazine and rapid wrist deployment? Has God ever appeared to you in a dream and told you to take accordion lessons? Have you ever worked at a roach motel and been fired for eating the tenants? Do you currently hold a position of authority in the Rectal Itch Society of America? (Bonus) Have you ever eaten "toe cheese?" QUIZ RESULTS Negative affirmations: You smell bad and look worse. You tend to drool, and you think in simplistic phrases like, "Run, run...chase the cat, chase the cat...hump the leg, hump the leg." You are a: INFANT SOUL 1-3 Affirmations: This demonstrates that you have an unhealthy inclination
towards conformity. Example: If your friends drank abscess fluid and lathered
their nude and tumescent bodies with tomato paste, you'd probably do the same. 4-5 Affirmations: You are essentially boring, drab and awful. You possess a
painful lack of imagination, you think sex is foreplay, and you're as
stimulating as a wet grave on a Sunday afternoon. 6-9 Affirmations: This indicates that you have a deeply embedded anal
retentive personality. You have a strange fixation with sock drawers, you tend
to feel guilty because you probably ARE guilty, and you were no doubt raised by
lab mice. 10 Affirmations: Congratulations!!! You are perfectly normal. You are a
leader in your community, and are perfectly suited for entry into the political
arena. ;-p Dave - not a Pepper, dammit Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 02:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Dear Melissa -- about transcendental souls coming into children, and various other ways souls can switch around.... What you are describing could be a situation that is quite uncommon generally, but less so in old souls, though still very unusual. (In the '90s unusual old soul situations will be much more common than ever before.) In Shepherd's charts there are a few, maybe a dozen or two out of thousands, where two different essences (rarely more) share, by agreement, a body. They can blend their energies together (this would most commonly be a pair of essence twins) or they can have an arrangement where one or the other is in the body and the other is close by. There is no real limitation as to how the essences set up such a situation, since it's all free choice. Obviously they have to be very good and close friends! What you describe also sounds like an odd version of a channeling agreement, as if the child pulled in another being in the way channels do. It would be an odd thing for a child to do, though. As to transcendentals, I wouldn't add anything to Joya's material. I do believe if it were a T. coming through, the energy and light would be remarkable and striking and anyone who saw the child would be marveling. It's certainly possible that such could be the case. I would add that the next T. and Infinite soul manifestations are going to be in places where they are needed most....generally not here. Third world, China, India, Arab world, places where large populations have no access to the new age teachings or outlook as we do. In general, these are places where few people can read English or other European languages. All the best, Ed Hamerstrom. Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 03:43:00 -0400 (EDT) At JP's class tonight she told us about some of the new material they have been getting....this is red-hot stuff! There are about 12,000 "energy circles" here. This term is equivalent to Shepherd's "cadre groups". They are groups of 12 cadres. The cadres are in a circle or ring structure, as follows. They have made a physical model of this, which I'll try to describe: Consider first the basic entity structure. Imagine a long rectangular strip of 49 X 7 small squares; seven larger squares in a row, each of them having 7x7 = 49 small squares. Take three such strips and join the edges, so you have a triangular shaped beam. Now the three sides are not evenly aligned.
|_______|
Each of the lines above has 7 underline characters, and they are one unit staggered. If the three rectangular strips are joined at the edges the end is sort of "jagged". The jagged front of one such entity unit fits into the other end of the next one, like sections of triangular pipe. Seven entity sections make a cadre and 12 cadres complete a unit. There is enough curvature in the structure so that the 7 X 12 = 84 entity units make a circle. Entity #1 of a cadre has a red color and the lowest frequency, #2 is orange, and so on through the rainbow. #7 is violet and highest frequency. There are 7 X 49 X 3 = 1029 basic positions in an entity. Additionally, about 15% of fragments are "wild cards" who are outside the structure but are attached. I don't recall the details, but the fragments within the structure are linked by about five chakra to chakra connections with their adjacent neighbors, while the wild cards are linked only by two links, I think. There is no set pattern to how different roles arrange themselves within this setup. **Fragments choose their roles before they choose their place in the structure.** There's nothing mechanical about this. All the best, Ed Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 04:04:00 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-09-02 03:43:44 EDT, Ed writes:
Great info, Ed!! I just purchased one of Shepherd's books, so perhaps this will finally begin to make some sense to me. Dave Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:29:24 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 8/29/97 4:15:27 AM, Kate wrote:
Kate, Re Michael conference, i believe it was decided that there would be no private channelings, but there would be mini readings available from all channels. but since I am only reading minutes of steering committee meetings, and haven't been directly involved mayve I remembered wrong.... blessings, Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 11:42:26 -0400 Dear Michael Listers, I would dearly love to see everyone's overleaves (whoever would like their's posted) available via the "Michael Teachings List" page. Now and then I read an interesting post by someone and I wonder what their overleaves are. Like Kate McM's recent and very interesting and long <smile> Old Sage post about "Michael and Illness". I wanted to find out Kate's overleaves again, but did not feel like searching past posts to find where she had posted them. It would have been great if I could have gone to one particular place to find people's overleaves. BTW: Kate why in my heart do I continue to call you "Caitlin"? Toward this end, several days ago I posted a suggestion with the web address of the page where we could do this. The web address of that page is fairly long and I guess subject to typing errors. So here's an easier way for us to get to our own individual member account page. 1. Go to the Michael List archive page in whatever way you normally use to read the Michael List postings. 2. Click on the words "Michael Teachings List"in large letters at the very top of this page. 3. This next page has a listing of everyone on the "Michael Teachings" list. If you click on a member's name you will be taken to their personal page containing the personal data that they have entered there themselves. 4. This "Michael Teaching List" page also provides entrance to one's own editable personal data. Near the top of the "Michael Teachings List" page click on the words "free membership" at the beginning of the first paragraph. 5. This will take you to the "Membership" page. Use your membership login and password to get to your own data page. Rene' sent each of us an email with this data when we individually "joined" SpiritWeb. 6. This membership page is titled "MEMBER ACCOUNT: Your Name 7. Edit your page to include whatever data you'd like us to know about you. There is a data entry space called "Profile" wherein you can enter your overleaves and any other stuff you'd like us to know about you. 8. You can bookmark any of the above pages to make them easier to get to. Now, about freebie overleaves. On the other hand I also have done several freebie overleaves for those I have felt drawn to from my "heart" center. Others have just asked/emailed me with personal questions. Most have thanked me. Some have just disappeared into wherever land. I too will do freebie overleaves for anyone on the "Michael Teachings" list as long as they are "into" the overleaves already and understand the definitions and what they mean. And I will post these overleaves to the Michael Teachings list. As much as I may like to, I just cannot do a full overleaf session for everyone who wants one. This brings up the point of what to believe when getting different overleaves from different people and sources. I once did the overleaves for a person who had gotten overleaves done from two different well-reputed Michael channels. Both of these overleaves were different from each other, and mine were different from the first two. All I can say about this situation, whenever it happens, is for the subject to go with whatever "resonates" to them from within the center of their being. When receiving conflicting overleaves try each one on and see if it fits for a few days. When you pay close attention to yourself in this manner you quickly learn what fits and what does not. Plus it's good practice in self-observation. The posting and comparison of channeled overleaves to the Michael List can be good practice for those of us who are relatively new to channeling overleaves; and a good accuracy check for those of us who are more experienced at Overleaf Channeling. I love guys. Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 08:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Whoa Dave!!! Finally, the kind of material I've come to EXPECT from you comes into the LIGHT, man! You are officially being inducted into my Old Soul Assylum as its first memeber, soon to be a regualr feature on my infamous, rogue, Michael Teachings web-page. Congratulations!! :^) (You are definitely the most hillarious Artisan I know.) Re: Kate's reply to "Michael and Illness" -- You GO Girl. :-D That's one of the best descriptions of the "victim pattern" and how to deal with it that I've seen in a very long time! Thank you for sharing that.... Don't let your sagy-ness get YOU into self-dep now, huh? BTW: I'm back on-line, at work, but at home I crashed my <insert explitive here> computer and can't get it to boot up anymore, and when it does, the modem's not working right..... So please excuse any late replies. :-D Admittedly, I need some serious help with that computer. Later.... Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 12:15:17 -0400 Kenneth Broom wrote: [clipped]
I meant "I love you guys." I love you women too. :>)# Sheesh, I think I'm gonna have another one of those weird weeks. No, I'm not, to both questions. :>)# BTW: I just found out that a lady in my condo bldg is an angel. I should have guessed so from the amount and intensity of the light she continuously puts out. Peace and Light to You and Yours, again. Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 13:38:03 -0400 Dear Melissa, Below please find your overleaves per Kenneth Broom,
Comments: Please try to stay in the positive poles of all overleaves, especially in your centering. You are not your emotions. You "experience" emotions. You can "feel" emotions. You are "not" emotions. Check out "why" you may feel a particular way, and if you want you may "choose" to "move" in another way than you first intended, depending on the basis for the initial emotions. Good for soul-searching, eh? Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 14:39:46 -0400 Jennifer Slatten wrote:
Dear Jennifer (30 yrs old, Female, Musician, Gemini),
Comments: You will, in these days of rapid advancement, probably move into the seventh level before you reach 40 years of age, and then into 1st Level Old before giving up your body this time around. It is suggested that you do not try too hard to accelerate your growth beyond what you're already doing. Your "Goal of Growth" will provide you with all the growth incentives and situations that you can handle without becoming overly stressed and distressed. On your conscious level try to stay in the positive poles of your overleaves. That's why you chose the "Pragmatist" attitude. Why you felt awkward...? Sometimes it is harder to receive a gift than to give one. Try to graciously receive the gifts that your Higher Self has for you. You'll enjoy them thoroughly. :>)# Thanks for the peace. God Bless You, and Date: 2 Sep 1997 12:17:34 -0700 Dear Kenneth, Thank you SO much for the information. I have to say that I was slightly disappointed that I wasn't an older soul (is that a strange reaction?) but your advice not to go too fast with my evolution is right on the money. I find myself constantly drawn to new sources of information on the web, in books and as I read, and begin to understand new things about myself and the universe I invariably get distracted by any number of things. I am currently trying to finish "Conversations with God" (which I am really finding wonderful) but as I get further into it, I have to start over, I've read the first 5 chapters twice. My boyfriend sped through it and is already using its principles in his life! (He must be much older than me)... for some reason this makes me jealous..... I do get some strange emotions when it comes to the Universe. I guess its all part of the learning/growing process. I feel that my 30's will be a great learning decade for me and I am looking forward to it. I hope I don't have to wait too long to shed my body this time. I am a diabetic and I don't relish the thought of complications in later life. Again, thank you for the insight and if anyone has any ideas as to why I get jealous of those who are more enlightened please let me know! I'd like to get to the root of it and heal it. Peace to all, Jennifer Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 14:22:13 -0500 Wow...! I never even considered the Warrior role before. I swear I looked at every other role and for some reason never looked at Warrior. I have a tendency to do that. I sometimes will *not* see the most obvious things. Didn't I read that it can be a warrior characteristic to blunder along a path, missing details along the side due to a single-mindedness to reach the goal? If so, that can definitely be me. I must agree with something someone said earlier, though. I think that the most important thing I've learned when it comes to Michael teachings, is soul age. I've always been extremely aware of my old soul characteristics, (luckily I have never been depressed about it - if anything I've always felt a bit of pride when it comes to not meeting others' expectations - I want to laugh maniacally - I love it). Uhh.. where was I.. oh.. but even though I've known deep down that I'm ok, there is *nothing* like hearing it from someone else. That there's a perfectly acceptable reason and purpose behind it. Well, anyway. Thank you Kenneth. You have definitely given me something to chew on for awhile. In fact, now I feel like I have to start from the beginning again! Especially with the overleaves..especially with everything! This is *so much* fun. heh. warrior huh.. Melissa. (who is now beginning to understand her obsession with 70's kung fu flicks). Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 15:38:22 -0400 Jennifer Slatten wrote:
Hi Jennifer, My wife Kate did a reading for you, too, although it was mixed into the
middle of a larger post (hey, she's a Sage, give her a break Ken's reading: BTW, don't mistake being an old soul for being enlightened. I know several old souls that are far less "enlightened" than my baby soul aunt. Also be aware that although you may "younger" than you would like, in actuality you've probably been around for multiple cycles, so in effect it doesn't matter if you're a mature soul or whatever vs somebody else being an old soul. You may have more cycles than them! ;))) (Just in case you wanna hold onto that competitiveness. ;))) Christopher Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:05:54 -0400 Jennifer Slatten wrote:
Absolutely part of the learning/growing process. Be like yourself, not your boyfriend. You are as wonderful a fragment of the Prime Creator as your boyfriend is. Your disappointment and jealousy and your "older than" and "better than" comparison issues are to be expected from a "Mature" soul. You'll get past these issues in your own good time. CWG is a wonderful book, and not so easy to absorb in two readings.
And then again maybe you'll "learn" how to really enjoy being here. Maybe in your 30's you'll find out the "growth" reasons why you became a diabetic, and maybe you'll learn how to correct the imbalances in your body, and to live your "wisest best" in each moment of every today. Today is tomorrow's cause. Last December I was hospitalized for hyperglycemia due to a blood sugar of 1100. The hospital people could find nothing else wrong with me. Today the only time I give myself an insulin shot is when I "way overdo" the sweets. I've completely cut out the half-gallon per day of heavily sugared iced tea and the dozens of chocolate chip cookies and the Hagen Daaz "Pralines and Cream" ice cream that I had OD'd on. When I eat right and exercise enough, my blood sugar stays between 120 and 170 all by itself. No complications at all. I am 59 years old and I have dropped my weight from 245 to 220 and am still losing. Anything conceivable is possible. So what's probable? If you don't like it then change it. Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:18:39 -0400 javex wrote:
OK, my dh just told me someone else did a reading on you, so I'm not going to read further and just see what I get (although Hoodwin and Kay Kamala like to see first what others get, so that is a possibility for a way to check as well): Melissa, reading done 9/2/97 by Kate McMurry: Soul Age: Mature, 7th level Please ponder on it and give me feedback as to whether or not it resonates with you. On your Essence Twin, I get: Kate Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:25:16 -0400 JoyaPope wrote:
Thanks! Of course, if I post readings here, I won't have Kay to check, so if anyone is an experienced channel and wants to check the readings or otherwise respond, that would be great. :)
Joya, I just wrote to Kay Kamala about this and she said it would be appropriate to ask the channels how to arrange a private reading with them. They can then set up with you a time and place that is mutually convenient. If not at the conference, then by phone works very well, in my experience. Kate Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 16:31:31 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-09-02 07:55:02 EDT, Kate McMurry writes:
My, my Kate. Your "word" is never done. ;-p In fact, I'm sure when
Congress calls a fillibuster, they'll call you in as an advisor. Thus, I have
decided to call you AT&T..."always talking and talking..." ;-p Seriously, Kate. I am in no way offended by your salient words and thoughtful suggestions. I completely agree with your assessment on the sensitive issue of a suffering loved one or friend, and I greatly appreciate the time you took to properly address this topic. Your wisdom has provided me with another perspective to help me deal with the frustration one feels when a loved one is in pain, and our hands are tied. Like most men, I'm a "fix-it guy," who feels supremely frustrated when someone is in pain and it's beyond his control to alter the situation. However, deep down I realize that we are not here to play someone else's game or change their rules. We must travel our own road. I thank you for your insights. :-) Dave Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 15:43:50 -0500 okay, well, I have to ponder all of this, not to mention go to work, but here's what I think: body type: sounds right. I know I am more martial than anything. and young looking. too young looking. role: I know I'm not a sage. I really* know that. heh energy: yep, I would say I definitely have more focused energy than creative. I really gotta look at this goal, mode, attitude stuff. Centering: I'm definitely in the moving part of emotional center. Chief feature: I've always been torn between Impatience and Stubborness. toodles for now,
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 17:01:41 -0400 Lori Tostado wrote:
Whew! That's a relief. Well, my self-dep has been strongly encouraged by outraged syssops who get tired of my "essays." <G> Kate Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Hi David, and welcome. :) David Eaton wrote:
An overleaf is one of the essence and personality traits described by Michael most of the Michael books (which you can find listed at: http://members.spiritweb.org/michael-teachings/books.html), which include such things as your Goal, Mode, Attitude, Centering, Chief Feature, and you can see the listing of them at: http://members.spiritweb.org/michael-teachings/overleaves.html and take the personality profile at: http://members.spiritweb.org/michael-teachings/personality.html. There is a link there on how to find your Role as well. Also: BTW: to the person who mentioned that the goal that used to be called "stagnation," then "relaxation," and now they were calling it "flow," I have to say that I like this change, to "flow," it has much fewer connotations than any of the other terms and I'm going to change it on my overleaves.html page to reflect this. Thanks! Love, Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 17:26:25 -0400 Dear Kate McMurry, I hope you are enjoying this as much as I am. This was my first time trying to do overleaves without a birthdate and birthplace connection or some other kind of deep connection with whoever I am asking for. Please note that I always cleanse myself and my setting and declare for truth before channeling. When I first tried to do Melissa's overleaves the immediate response from
Michael was Melissa who? I couldn't find any data on her other than "javex",
so I replied the " To tune in on Jennifer I used the data from her SpiritWeb Member Account (30 yrs old, Female, Musician, Gemini), after which the connection became steady and steady. For each of the above ladies I asked for confirmation of the truth of the received overleaves, and received it. There have been times when I have had to re-do the whole thing. After I saw that you and I were different on the overleaves for both Melissa and Jennifer. I asked Michael how this could be. They said that for all of the Michael channels, sometimes, if the identification isn't clear, there can be mistaken identity regarding the fragment being referred to. This allows the possiblity of the "right essence/wrong parallel reality" or "right essence/wrong incarnation" or even "wrong essence/right reality" or "wrong essence/wrong reality". The possiblities for error are great. Therefore when asking for a set of overleaves, "specific" identification data is required. Plus... because there are many discarnate fragments and entities calling themselves "Michael", and they all can obtain overleaves when asked, it is also possible that even an unintended "Michael" can be inadvertently called on, and they can pick up on the wrong fragment altogether. Not to mention the channel himself inadvertently not being as clear as he/she needs to be. There is also the difficulty in accurately channeling discrete data as distinct from ideas and concepts. That is why I use pendulum charts of the overleaves instead of writing them down as I get them in my head. There is no way for a channel to "guarantee" his/her channeled overleaves. The only person who can do this is the fragment his/herself via his/her own resonance with the received overleaves. Kate, I'd truly appreciate your telling us how you yourself tune into Michael and overleaves. I'd like to know if I am missing something in my process. God Bless Us All, Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:02:21 -0400 javex wrote:
Melissa, if you can, compare the two readings you've gotten, and if you've gotten any other, please post it here. Maybe we can engage in the fascinating exercise of reconciling three competing readings. <G> Kate Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:03:51 -0400 Dave Gregg wrote:
Dear Dave Gregg (aka sauerwine) Below please find your overleaves per Kenneth Broom, September 2, 1997
Comments: Lots of Love to ya, my brother. Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:12:54 -0400 Dave Gregg wrote:
Believe me, this is not the first time I've heard remarks like this. <G> I've never had any doubt about my overleaf reading that I'm a Sage. <G>
Dave, you're a treasure, and I'm sure Rhonda knows it. :) Kate Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 15:14:42 -0700 Hello Everyone, This is my first posting to the list, and I have a question: I have seen people list their roles this way : Scholar/Sage, for example. I had my overleaves done by Shepherd and my chart reads that I am an Honorary Artisan (meaning, I think, that I have a lot of artisan influence, such as essence twin and task companion. My chart also says that my position resonates with artisan). So, when someone says they are a Warrior/Scholar, do they mean the same thing as when I say I am an Honorary Artisan? As far as other overleaves go, I am a second level old priest, growth, passion, spiritualist, emotional center, arrogance, lunar body type. By the way, Brin, I also am cadre three(Shepherd), entity four! I am glad to be on the list and, at least at first, will probably listen alot and say not too much. :-) Love, Audrey Yobst Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:19:58 -0400 At 12:49 AM +0000 9/2/97, Kate McMurry wrote:
I would love to have a reading done if you can manage the time. I have been wondering for a while now how old my soul is and why I came here but have not been able to find any answers. Maybe this can help. I realize that it really doesn't matter how old my soul is because we're all progressing in evolution together, but it might be able to help for what I'm stuck in right now (paranoid emotions, lack of purpose, anger, etc...) And if not stuck in those things I can help other people out a lot more than I can now. I don't know what info you need to do this kind of reading but I'll give you the basics: I was born on 4/16/75 in Eastern PA, I'm an Aries male, if you need anything else let me know. I really appreciate that you do this for people. I'm sure it helps people find a focus in all of this chaos. Thanks again Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:29:02 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-09-02 13:10:30 EDT, Lori Tostado writes:
But...but....but I was being serious...;-p I'm sorry to hear of your computer woes. I'm having problems once again with the stealth procedures at Spirit-Web. I've apparently forgotten my login for the archives. Man, I'd like to wrap my fingers around the neck of the scholar who thinks we need a password for every endeavor in life. I just know that my bladder will explode one day because I got locked out of an undecoded bathroom. Anyhow, does anyone know how to acquire my login number? Dave Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:39:45 -0400 To all who are getting their overleaves done: For the sake of all our common growth in overleaf comprehension and channeling would you please post (in detail if possible) your resonance/reaction comparisons of each set of overleaves you receive. Immediate reactions as well as more deeply considered reactions would be also good. Thanks loads for these. Anymore overleaf channelers out there? We could use all the overleaf comparisons/feedback we can get. It'll help us all in the long run. For those of you who are not channelers your comments about the differences in overleaves for the same person are also welcome. I've got to go now due to a computer programming client of mine coming by for a report at 9:30 pm tonight. I'll return as time permits. The mundane forever calls for its share of attention. This has been and is much interesting fun. Thanks, Kate, for getting this started. Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:44:20 -0400
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:49:38 -0400 (EDT) Dear George: When people use the convention of RoleA/RoleB it's saying your role is the first one and your essence twin is the second one. Shepherd uses the convention of calling one an "honorary" whatever in the roughly 1 in 7 case where the person's essence twin's role and the role corresponding with the person's primary cadence position number are the same. In your case you have an Artisan ET and position #2 which corresponds with Artisan. The idea of "Honorary" is that the person has a really strong secondary role influence to go with the essence role. My general impression is that everyone shows influences of more than one role. A typical pattern might be
If the essence twin is not incarnate, one might have:
50% - one's own role
Hope this helps. Where are you in Oregon, and are there other Michael folks around? All the best, Ed Hamerstrom Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 16:42:54 -0700 (PDT) On 31 Aug 1997, Barbara Taylor wrote:
That is so cool--I learned about the Meyers-Briggs in high school and found it rather interesting, but after finding Michael, made MB look like kindergarten!! Too much of modern psychology just leaves out the most important part--the SOUL. Is it just because they want psychology to look more like "science" than "religion"? I so hope that with the Michael Teachings we can bridge the gap between spirituality and psychology!
Me too!
Yes, I do that too, as you do :^) . Why do you say it "raised a few eyebrows" when you decided to list all the Michael resources? I don't see why anyone would make a big deal about it unless they were into secrecy or felt that the teachings were some sort of mystery school where you had to be initiated or something, heheh. I just saw all these sites promoting themselves so I wanted to kind of put them together where people could find them all together.... And now, look what the more well-known channels have decided to do: An "Association for the Michael Teachings." I just hope it turns out to be more inclusive than exclusive, which often happens to associations of this type. I think it's a good idea to bring the Michael channels together like this....
Glad you're here! Love, Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:13:07 +-1200 I would greatly appreciate it if someone could do mine for me! Love Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 20:14:32 -0600 Hello, everyone. My name is Gloria Constantin, and many thanks to Lori for the initiative and audacity to put up this list so we could all find each other. I guess this is a relatively new chat forum, and everyone's being really nice. When we get to know each other better, perhaps familiarity will breed a bit more looseness, ey? I am a seventh-level old sage, honorary priest, from cadre 3 (or 1), entity 4. Vibration is 60, male/female energy ratio is 47/53. I apparently chose Flow as my goal this lifetime, which often feels like inertia. Mode is power, attitude is spiritualist, chief feature is impatience, centering is intellectual going to the emotional, and body type is saturnian with secondaries of solar and venusian. So there! Now you know almost everything you need to know. For you astrologers out there: March 30, 1951, 8:46 PM, EST, Bronx, New York. Yes, I'm a 46 year old Aries--Capricorn Moon, Scorpio rising, Pluto exactly conjunct the Midheaven. (That's the power mode signature). I live in Boulder, Colorado with a bunch of cats. (Other than that, I'm single.) Some are visitors from the Humane Society. I am a foster parent for the Society. Oh--I love cats. I grew up in the South Bronx, in New York City, a very painful place to be. (Mom is Puerto Rican, dad is Cuban.) I saw much violence done to both people and animals, and my family situation was also very dangerous and violent. Michael tells me I agreed to deflect the brutality (my words)to my mother from my dad onto me. I took a lot of it on for sure. But then I eventually got away, and the spiritual quest energy really opened up. I have, as all of you have, been looking for the etiology of self. The where, the how, the why, yes, dammit, The Great Big WHY of it all. And it's taken years to get a real handle on it and discover Higher Self as the real me. It's been a long journey of readings, books, books, difficult experiences, and lots of dialogue with the people "out there." I know this: if you want the answers, you will get them. I have had no career interests until the last odd years of my life. Currently, I work for a publicly traded company that's rocking and rolling its way to destruction. I work in investor relations, communicating the financial stuff to the financial community (stockbrokers, investors) about this company, which by the way, puts on Renaissance Faires. But am I there, singing, dancing, playing gypsy astrology reader? Nooooo....I'm pretending that I really understand price to earnings ratio, book value, stock valuation, and the wall street mentality in general. Not to mention the 10-Q's and K's. Oh, it's laborious and BORING. But I'm grateful that at this soul age and in Flow, I can still support myself. It does feel tenuous, though. I mean, impulsive Aries that I am, I could just walk out. I may move to Taos down the road... I'd like to eventually have a practice that uses both the horoscope and the Michael teachings. I'm doing it now, unofficially, and have been unofficially doing astrology for some time. The M. teachings is the whole canvas, the big picture. Everything else is overleaves, as far as I can tell. For you guys that keep asking for readings of your soul role, age and overleaves--you can get a chart reading done for §20-§40 from a channel. You don't need to go the whole conversation with Michael route initially. When you get your chart and start looking at some of the books, (Michael Handbook is a good start), you'll have a much better idea of where you're coming from. And going? Maybe! You can email Shepherd Hoodwin at ShepherdH@aol.com or Joya Pope at JoyaPope@aol.com for a single page chart of who you are and what cadre and entity you hail from. Give Kenneth a break. Ooops--didn't mean to speak for you, Ken. You come across as a really soft and gentle essence. Would love to meet you sometime. Would love to meet you all. Let's gather up at the Michael conference in November. What do you say? Love, Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 22:52:43 -0500 I want to thank Kate and Kenneth for the readings; I will definitely have
another one done. This really has given me a lot to think about. The thing that most hit home today in regards to the overleaves would
have to be the "moving part of the emotional center". This is
something I have always been aware of, but I never knew what it was,
exactly. I hope I'm getting this right -- I'll give an example-- Melissa/Javex Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 01:19:49 -0400 Here is Leslie's reading, in case anyone else want's to post a reading and cross check. Leslie, if you could give feedback on to what degree you resonate with it, that would be great. :) Soul Age: Old, level 5 --
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 01:28:15 -0400 Gina Matthews wrote:
Gina, I'll try to get to it. Can you tell me what Michael books you've read so I'll know your level of experience with it? Thanks. Kate Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 01:32:00 -0400 Gloria Thanks for your fascinating post. You and I are the same age. :) I look forward to meeting you at the Michael conference. :) Kate Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 02:10:39 -0400 Kenneth Broom wrote:
It's interesting, for sure. I "ran" a Michael topic in the New Age BB on GEnie several years ago. In fact that's where/how I met my dh! <G> There, in the Michael topic, in another channeling topic and in a numerology topic I did free readings for people until I got too busy with other obligations to keep on with it. That kind of channeling is good practice. And I have no trouble with it because I've done long-distance channeling for some time. But as to doing Michael channelings for people, the problem was that most of the visitors to the topic knew little or nothing about Michael so I had to make a rule that I would only do a reading if they would commit to reading a basic Michael book first. Otherwise it is a waste of my time. :) BTW, all, I may not be able to continue doing readings much beyond the next few days, at least for a while. In fact, I may have to go off the list entirely. I have a book I really, really need to finish writing and I find this group irresistable. :) As you've noticed, I tend to get lost in Sage-y conversation (can't shut up, IOW). <G> I'm like an alcoholic who can only resist temptation by keeping the booze out of the house--when I need to get back to my fiction writing, I have to stop writing e-mail so much. :)
This makes sense. There is always the fact, also, that *no* channel, no matter how good, is 100% accurate. To be 75-80% accurate is pretty darn good. Let's say you and I are both 75% accurate on our readings--this means that 25% of each of our readings is wrong. By law of chance, we could be wrong on different things, too. So that could account for some discrepancies, too.
I agree with you. I *always* write down everything I'm channeling. No way can I remember all that. I keep all my Michael stuff organized in files, too.
Very true. It's always good to check within yourself, too. An old soul warrior friend of mine got two different readings from two very respected Michael channels with tons of experience. She pondered the differences for some time until she felt very clear within herself what were her actual overleaves. For my own overleaves, so far I've only had them channeled by myself, cross-checked by my dh and Kay Kamala. I'm going to try and see if I can't make arrangements for some more readings when I go to the conference in Nov. (No one will be doing readings there, but it's a good chance to see who you resonate with the most for reading purposes by meeting face-to-face.) I'd highly recommend to anyone who is confused about what overleaves are truly theirs to get the book Personality Puzzle by Jose Stevens and JP Van Hulle. It has a series of questions you can answer. Based on your answers you can quickly get a very good idea of what your overleaves should be.
Kenneth, my "technique" is very informal. I channel like breathing. It is something I do all the time, all day, every day. I made an agreement with the universe in 1976 that I would live by my intuition, and after making that declaration, I found that ever since, when I *don't* follow my intuition, life is a mess. Not to say that my intuition always leads me toward joy and light. Don't I wish! Sometimes it simply points out to me karmas I can't avoid. And relationship karmas are a real mixed bag of pain and joy. :} In my channeling, I use sound more than vision, hearing guides speaking to me. But if I want to, I can see very clearly. I have an agreement with the universe that I only speak to "joy" guides from the light. That is, guides who want to help me learn through peace and contentment rather than encouraging me to suffer. Not that I haven't had my share of suffering this lifetime--I'm in growth, such is the nature of that one! <G> However, I seem to have been born with an innate optimism that no amount of abuse can seem to shake. Sometimes I wish I could get just a bit cynical. <G> I also refuse to talk to guides who speak in gibberish. I went to a channel once years ago whose guides spoke in strange symbols and she had to give her clients a translation sheet! I didn't want any of that stuff, so I "amplified" her and informed her guides, inside myself, I wanted them, if they were so all-fired interested in symbols, to channel to me in numerology terms, since I'm a numerologist. In that way I got a semi-decent reading where otherwise it would have been mud. :} As a rule, when I go to other channels for a reading, what ends up happening is that the only way I can accurately get what I want, for the most part, is to "use" them to amplify my own channel and then channel myself what I need to find out. I try to make partnership arrangements with other old soul channels who are good, because I find it aggravating that the only way most of us old souls can ever talk to each other is attending each other's workshops and seances. IOW, paying for the privilege of being with each other. <sigh> But, to get back to how I channel, I am a "light-trance," usually open-eye channel. However, I have no need, and never have, for special props, quiet, mood music, special lighting, any of that. I can channel in the middle of a crowded mall or driving in a car. This may be because back in the mid 70s I trained myself to write poetry under any circumstances, a kind of artistic "channeling," and I think the training spilled over into spiritual channeling. <G> Whatever, that kind of training has stood me in good stead as a mother--a lifestyle with endless distractions! The only thing I do *not* like when I am channeling, unless I have purposely asked for it as an "amplification" technique, is for another person to stand at my back. Almost invariably, unless I get a sudden "vision" out in front of me, my guides "enter me" from behind. I have tried the standard recommendations of grounding myself to the earth, using circles of blue flame, swords of light, holding various stones, esp. crystals, etc., etc. before channeling, but I notice no real difference in the quality of my experience than if I just plunge in at once, no preparation except to say to the universe, "I am now channeling for X about X." My dh and I were discussing something interesting today that your post made us think of, to wit: Does one need to connect to Michael, and only Michael, to read overleaves? The answer I got was a resounding, "No." If I know about the overleaves, and my regular guides (various angels in my case) know what I know (and therefore can utilize Michael jargon fluently), and if the Michael system is a typology that can be known and records of the overleaves all fragments have chosen are, as all knowledge is reputed to be, residing in the Akashic Records, then any channel who is in the habit of accessing the Akashic Records should be able to channel the overleaves. However...it makes sense that if one wanted to channel profound or new insights about Michael's teachings, the only place to go is straight to the horse's mouth. If any old time Michael channels have any input on this, I'd love to hear it. :) As for the how of my channeling and what it looks and feels like, when a yes/no answer can suffice, my most accurate channeling method is kinesiology. Using this means, I get a "yes" or "no" by pressing on the pointing finger of my left hand. "Yes" is release and "No" is hold. By experimentation and observation of my accuracy in channeling, the kinesiology seems to be, as I say, my most accurate method. I go down the list of overleaves until I get a "yes" for each one, and then write that down. I can also get the overleaves by just listening for a voice telling me what each one is, but if information comes to me that way, I always re-check it with kinesiology. As for pendulums or pendulum-like systems for getting a yes/no answer, I can do that, and I have many times in the past, but I am in impatience, and it's too slow for me. <G> BTW, FWIW, for over 30 years now I have been able to use *anything* to get a yes/no answer, even a branch I pick up off the ground will move like a Ouiji Board indicator for me. <G> (I hold it against the ground and it will move in specific ways for yes/no. <G>) It's interesting that Kay Kamala and I agree so much for readings, but yet she doesn't always get the same reading as other Michael channels for a given person (of course, as we've discussed, this happens a lot). At any rate, as I think about that phenomenon, I'm wondering if it might not be possible that your readings might jive with some other experienced Michael channel in the way that mine do with Kays? I think all of this is something I want to bring up at the conference in November. :) Does that help any? <g> Also, FWIW, my favorite "client" is me. <G> That is, I am my own preferred channel, because my channelings for myself (and I'm told this is unusual, many people feel they can't let information flow objectively enough for themselves) is uncannily accurate, even as to exact time frames and dates. I haven't ever tried to channel in this much detail and with as much intensity as I do for myself for anyone but very close family members, btw. (So don't anyone ask me to. <G>) Right now, and for the past four years, virtually all my channeling energy is going into writing fiction, so I don't do it for money these days. I have told the universe I want to make writing my money channel, and I don't want to dilute that. :) Kate Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 02:18:40 -0400 Kenneth Broom wrote:
Ken, I got: Old 7 -- Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 18:28:18 +0200 Dear Brin, Thank you very much for elaborating in so much detail. It has definitely contributed to a better understanding about the different roles. Brin wrote:
I too have had times like that, but I have always felt that this heightened amount of imput was not appropriate for my purposes. Now, I understand, that this kind of perceptivity is not fit for a scholar, but rather crazy-making (i.e. I do not have to be aware of a friend trying to decide which shoes to wear, or of five different probable outcomes had I taken the left turn instead of the right, etc.). I have decided to purposefully turn down the volume of those input channels which do not directly relate to the task at hand. It looks to me like we all have all input channels available, but have to learn how to fine-tune our resources in order to be real scholars, artisans, slaves etc.
It seems that a full-blown artisan is a master of integration. He is supposed to take seemingly unrelated pieces of information and craft them into something meaningful for all to see and understand (does that come close?).
Yes, they do sometimes appear like that, after all it is an art which requires quite some training before it produces masterpieces.
Yes, a scholar is made to acquire indepth knowlegde of every minute detail of a situation. She therefore limits her focus to one thing at a time and digs deeply into the heart of matters. This results in a huge pile of detailed information (which BTW I do not yet consider the masterpiece of a scholar yet) which now needs to be fully integrated (embodied) and then forgotten. For me, a fully realized scholar is someone who does no longer have to THINK, but is able to apply her knowlege automatically, because she and her knowlegde have become undistinguishable. In the end old scholars might even start looking like old artisans because with mastery comes the ability to be playfully creative.
So would I. Please come forward :-)
I think you did very well (I almost said, not bad for an artisan, but managed to hold back :-D) and I thank you for it. I have learnt a great deal about roles. BTW how did you find out about your female energy and the frequency? How can I find those out for myself? Love, Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 11:54:17 -0600 Dear Danielle: Thanks for the chunky dialogue between yourself and Brin. Such interesting and informative reading, it is. BTW, you want to know how to get your stuff? (Pardon me, Brin, for jumping in here) "Dial" ShepherdH@aolcom or JoyaPope@aol.com. These are professional channels, do it all the time for their living. Shepherd charges $40, I think, and Joya, $20. You'll get soul role, age, frequency, cadre/entity, cadence position, essence twin, task companions, quadrate position, and all your overleaves for this lifetime. At least you do for Shepherd's chart. I haven't seen Joya's, but I know she does this as well. Love, Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:22:23 -0400 (EDT) I don't want this to have a grouchy tone or to in any way be taken as rejection or negativity, but.... I don't think all this overleaf stuff is entirely good work. Firstly, I don't want my computer clogged up with endless back and forth about various people's different versions of their overleaves. It's bad enough now, but wait till a few more people, and differing versions, get into the soup. If you are channeling people's overleaves from the akashic records, as Shepherd does, you need to have a connection with the person you are reading for, at minimum the full name, perhaps date of birth, a photo, etc., so Michael, or whatever entity does the reading, can do it for the right person. It is not good work to give out someone else's akashic information. Michael, and presumably other entities, also do not want us to waste their time. In Shepherd's book there is good material on this which he channeled in answer to the obvious question of why DO different channels usually get grossly varying overleaves for the same person. I don't want to quote or restate that material here, it's too complicated. There was an important idea which came out as "structured willingness to know". Michael will be very helpful to any student genuinely wanting to learn who works with the ideas and validates them or tries to apply them in life. Michael has said numerous times that they ask students to first try to figure out their own overleaves before they ask for a reading. By working with or thinking about the material the student will get more benefit and so will michael in their activity of working with us. Suppose we have a great library and in our enthusiasm for it we tell passers-by on the street that it's really cool and the librarians can get anything at all for you and would you like to see your chart? Sure. And the librarians get tired of doing the work for people who don't really appreciate it, when there are many others who do know its value who also want to use the services. If you do psychic-reading style channeling, that is, the person is present physically, you connect with the aura and by extension to other people that are connected with the person, then the reader gets a set of overleaves and there can be immediate feedback and both parties can learn. If we were all together physically, then a discussion sorting out what someone's overleaves really are would be very useful good work. If I knew Melissa, or had enough communication to have some idea of her personality, then I could have some application (validation) value in reading a discussion of which overleaves she really has. Not knowing her from Adam, and this will be true for all the other readers here, it's a completely useless discussion. (Nothing personal, Melissa, you just happened to have the catchy e-mail name.) Could y'all have a separate board for these overleaf discussions? Can we not invite any more new people to ask for volunteer readings that will always yield conflicting results because the person hasn't done the work of reading books and thinking about the teachings? Can we stop clogging up the archives and our computers with stuff we can't relate to personally? I mean, the meaning of Melissa's and others' overleaf back and forth, with respect to the question of what should I do or say, using the teachings, is exactly what I already said. It can't ever be something like "it seems to me she has XYZ rather than ABC because of such and such" because I can't physically see or talk with Melissa and have any valid opinion on what her overleaves really are. I can't personally relate to the discussion. I could do the negative pole of artisan thing (if I were an artisan), which is to sit here and imagine what I think her overleaves are and take that as a reality to start from, but that isn't really good work, even for artisans IMHO. If we do volunteer free readings for strangers, can we do it off this mailing list and keep all the back and forths of it off the list? Once again, the point of the Michael teachings is to be more positive and less negative and to get to agape. All the best, Ed Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 13:53:15 +0000 Ed, You raise some interesting questions, and I'm sure we'll be sorting them out for some time to come, but let me just give a couple personal responses to some of the issues you touch on.
First, its called the Delete key, and you don't have to be in discrimination to use it. Looks long and boring? No tickle from Essence to scroll on? *Click*. Next?
Wait, says _who_? Just because Shepherd needs a picture, that doesn't necessarily mean every other channel out there does too. In the broader outlines of human history, I'd wager we're still at a very nascent stage of channeling abilities. Why put limits on what people can & can't do? Or how? And *waste* their *time*??
I relax, serene in the knowledge that there will always be enough librarians to serve the needs of those seeking the knowledge. I cannot say who, or to what degree the people receiving the information appreciate or value it.
Goal or process? A fundamental dilemma. Me, I tend to come down on the side of process... Ed, does it go without saying that none of this is personal? Love always, Dean Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 23:00:31 +0200 Hi folks, Ed Hammerstrom wrote:
Sorry, Ed, I have to disagree... I have been enjoying the discussion of overleaves quite a lot and am glad it is taking place on this list. Some of what I am reading here seems pretty improbable to me, but the free and open discussion provides some points to ponder. The actual overleaves of any one (or more) stranger(s) don't mean any more to me than to you I'm sure, but I find the practical problems of channeling and validation quite interesting. Personally, I would never want to channel anyone's overleaves without some form of, as you call it, psychic contact, even a question placed over the telephone is enough to be comfortable... but different channels work in different ways. I'm enjoying the back and forth about it and hope it won't be curtailed. BTW who channeled that it is now possible to pass through several soul age levels in one lifetime? That was mentioned somewhere along the way and I binned the posting not thinking that I might want to respond to it. This is one of the things I find unlikely... as I recall Jose Stevens channeled that one had to successfully do all the internal monads in a soul level before moving on to the next. As far as I understand the matter that would be about the minimum criterion... it's not a race after all, the object here is experience, not progress. Maybe we could have some discussion about this point. Cheers, Katherine Doversberger Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 14:04:22 -0700 Thank you for this post Ed. I think you're right that we should make the overleaf info more private rather than on the list. :) I hope that's OK. Love, BBL.... Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 17:33:47 -0400 Lori Tostado wrote:
Michael is about "overleaves". I was just offering my gift to the list. The stated condition was that my freebie overleaves "be posted" to the list for all of us to see and learn from. If this is not OK then there will be no more freebies from me. I want no part of this huhu (upsetment). Because I love you all I will, however, follow the consensus of the list members. Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:40:15 -0600
Seems as though the list members here who are genuine in asking for help on this are being turned down. I am a member of this list but am told I am not. I must not really be a part of you all. Maybe there is a mistake and even though Im subscribed I am still getting the messages. If this is the case and Im not really here maybe I need help to get off the list for real. But I wanted to stay, So if the list moderator would help me fix this is would be helpful. thanks Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 19:31:50 -0400 Ed wrote:
Michael of the Overleaves says differently. I have asked them. They approve.
I suggest you go to your Membership page and temporarily change your email choices.
There is no minimum. Only that Michael has the proper connection. They tell me when that happens. When I channel from the akashic I only need enough to make a clear and steady contact. I am an Akashic Orderly. I have been doing this for eons.
Incorrect. It "is" good work when and if I have their permission to post their overleaves for the good of the list members. That is one of the conditions I have already stated to the list regarding my doing anyone's freebie overleaves on the "Michael Teachings List".
Not true. There is no "time" involved. I could not channel overleaves via Michael or my own entity without their permission. > [clipped]
You are judging me and what I do unfairly and without my permission. Please please do not define what is "useful" to me. Plus on the level that we are dealing on you "do" know Melissa from Adam. You are also connected to me and to everyone on this list and in fact to everyone in the whole universe.
Possible idea for Lori and Rene'. I don't perceive the need since this amount of "freebieing" will not last much more than a few more days. Maybe a little longer if the members want it to.
Please, Ed, change your email preferences so you do not have to get these emails.
More Positive and Less Negative and Agape, absolutely correct. Take a good look at yourself at the moments you were writing this post. Please be patient with us as we are with you. No list will satisfy all members all the time. Your Chief Feature of "Impatience" is showing its negative pole. Thank you for your best, Ed. You have a lot of love to offer us and the world other than what you're showing us here. And we have a lot of love to share with you too. God Bless You, and Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:39:47 -0400 (EDT) Dear Katherine -- As far as more than one level per life....I have not heard that and don't believe it is true. I asked Michael once (I wasn't the channel) about that and they explicitly said you have to do all seven internal monads (though not necessarily the same lifetime) in each soul age level. So if you move into a new soul age level in the middle of a life and do, say, 4,5,6,7th internal monads in that life, you have to do the 1st three internal monads in the next life, minimum, before advancing to next soul age level. Somewhere else they said it takes on average about 200 years of life experience per level. I suppose in this day and age that we can get our life experience a lot faster now (including all the TV and movies) so that number may be reduced. I agree to disagree on the other. It's barely okay now, but wait till ten people we all don't know make 300 messages about their overleaves in the archives and completely drown out everything else..... All the best, Ed Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 19:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Dear Ken -- I hope you and Kate and others don't take my grouching personally. I'm just seeing the probable future when maybe a dozen people that no one else knows are all having their multiple overleaf channelings, interpretations of errors in channeling, explanations of same, and it generates 30 posts a day and everything else is buried. Isn't there a way that a separate list could be set up that is just about overleaf channelings and discussions? Someone said Michael IS about overleaves. Sure, but I'd say again what I did a few days ago, that the subject of overleaves got blown up into a bit bigger prominence in the Grand Scheme of Things than it merits among all the other grand things. All the best, Ed Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 19:52:27 -0400 Katherine Doversberger wrote: [clipped]
Dear Katherine, I think I was the one who posted that message.
Per Michael of the Overleaves via Kenneth Broom (Sept. 3, 1997) Per Kenneth Broom -- Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:31:36 +0000 Well, now that I have my posting problem resolved, I am going to slip out of observation to interject. First, I feel the posting and discussion of overleaves is valid, and I would like to see it continue. Michael is very much about overleaves. Michael is also very much about channeling. In my personal searching I have never found a system that encourages personal channeling of an entity at any level close to what Michael does. In the early days of Ramtha there was some of that going on, but JZ Knight seems to have had a monopoly on that for quite some time. I am not personally channeling, but I feel it important for those who are to have access to a validation process and open forum for discussion. This is the ideal forum. Lori, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought this was a generic Michael forum, open to discussion of anything "Michael". There are about 100 subscribers to this list. Surely, not all of them are looking for the same information at the same time. What is valid for some now will not be valid for others. But the pendulum continues to swing, and the current discussion will give way to other subjects. Everyone will have their turn. I feel it important to keep this forum open to anything "Michael". I have done my own overleaves using the manual non-channeled method, and would like to see if the channels here (at least 6 I believe) validate them. Role, mode and goal were fairly obvious (scholar with some heavy warrior bleedthrough, observation, and growth), but soul age (3rd old?) is not, and attitude and chief feature could have nearly been a coin toss. I think this kind of validation process is good work for all involved. For you channels, I am curious about something. First, long before this list was born, I found Lori while looking for information on "how to channel." I discovered her article and found it by far to be the most useful information on the subject available. Did you other channels open yourselves using a similar method? Lori's really resonates with me, and I am curious if it also does with others, or if non-scholars prefer different methods. I think some posts from the channels on how they do their thing would be very beneficial to others here. Lastly, you sages don't have a monopoly on long posts, so don't apologize. Post away. Once I digest some more of this material, and my workload decreases a little (yeah, right), you will be seeing some lengthy stuff from the scholarly observation perspective. John Rogers Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 19:11:40 -0600 I totally agree with John and Ken. This list is an incredible forum for all the questions in the Universe that we avid seekers of truth through the Michael teachings have. Being connected this way enables a powerful unfolding process for information, and its rapid acceleration/expansion and assimilation. There are folks subscribed to this list who are really asking for help, and we are the community--their community--that can give it to them. I think Ken and Kate have set a fine and selfless example in taking people under their wing, so to speak, by offering real information (with the caveat that the individual self-validate)as well as mentoring that comes from the heart. The fact that this community and the postings will continue to grow is a big positive. Think of the ramifications for the expansion of the teachings and our own continuing enlightenment. It's happening right here, folks, and we are volunteering to be the instruments and facilitators of the work of Light. I don't know about you, but having found this community is a Taosend for me. Love, Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 20:08:08 -0700 Hi everyone, Really enjoyed the response to the question of input differences. Ed put out a lot of thought provoking questions....some of which I wanted to share responses to.... Ed was asking why we're so different in nature and in a sense, why it seems we're limited to a particular fashion of perception. For me, the body is a useful and simple image that answers so much. Just like there are different organs and different kinds of cells, we have intrinsically different purposes and styles of perception, expression and experience that allign with our purposes. A heart organ will have a different number of passages in and out than another kind of organ. Cells within a particular organ will have a kind of affinity of purpose -- like our experience of affinity in being the same role or a sense of sameness we may share with entity mates. At first we perceive ourselves as a cell and identify both with that cell's particular purpose and the modes of perception, expression and experience that are a part of that cell's reason for being. Then perhaps we identify more with the whole organ or being part of the nervous system or the bone structure etc. (Feeling our whole entity as ourself.) Bone needs to have different qualities than those that form the nervous system -- inherently major differences, for good reason. Gradually our identification expands until we experience the body as ourself. (Feeling our whole cadre's experience as our own. Our perception expands to match our true state of unity. The integration and sense of oneness just continues to ripple out so that our perception joins with the deepest truth of oneness -- and we actually experience all as ourself.) These may not be direct correlations -- just useful for getting another angle on the whys and hows. In other words, there's a narrowing here, as we perceive as a fragment, that will fall away as we recombine and experience everything and everyone as parts of ourself. This both means that while we currently (as a fragment) perceive with a particular focus, we truly are, always have been and always will be more than that. Eventually our perception will expand to correspond with the truth that we are one and gradually will in all ways experience it as such. Including remembering, feeling, knowing increasing fragments' experience, including manners of perception, as our own self's experience. On the fragment level, we also have a particular focus in the area of male/female energy, frequency and role influences, that stay with us from life to life. I may have lived as a man, but my experience of being a man with 65-70% female energy will be completely different from an experience of being a man with high male energy. I have a friend who is a king. His study, through a myriad of lives, of the nature of power from dominance to slavery and everything in between, will always intrisically be a different kind of take entirely than if I, as an artisan with a lot of scholar influences even had the same interest to focus on the nature of power in the same way. I think while we are here perceiving as fragments, the differences of input especially is one of the least culturally acknowledged reasons for misunderstandings between people. (As well as our centering differences.) Perhaps especially as an old soul, the window of our focus begins to open
more or less often, and we get tastes of a greater unity consciousness.
(Wonderful...and the bliss leads us on...) First maybe an entity mate may be
like a mirror image of so much of our Enjoy sharing our understandings and deeper wonderings of how all this works. Best to everyone, Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 22:06:42 -0500 Kate: Thank you!! -- Date: Thu, 4 Sep 97 06:20:30 UT Everything is evolving. Some things slower than others. I don't worry about being put in a box because it will change. In fact it may not even be a box anymore. Forums evolve and take on a life of their own. The participant's are the nourishment and thus all is allowed to survive and evolve. I have been using forums of this nature (computer types) since 1985 and have even moderated a few in my day. I always found that no matter what the topic/subject of the forum, the more free the flow, the better the forum was and the longer it stuck around. I learned long time ago how to hit that good old friend of mine... yea old delete key if I felt it was cluttering my disk. I don't mind hitting the next key when I can't seem to get into the thread of the latest messages passing through. I'll save them for a time as I might find them worth reading later. I would rather have that choice to make. As with others in this list... just wanted to raise my hand....:) Hugs to all!!! PS..... I LOVE reading!!!!! Please keep all these wonderful posts heading our way!!! So much to ponder, so much to add to my Michael Teachings directory!! Kate... you will be missed... please hurry back after finishing your book. Some of us really enjoy long thought provoking messages...<silly grin> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 97 06:47:01 UT Brin, Makes me then think that all the overleaves (plus) would actually have us all perceiving just a bit differently than the next person. All the nuances that goes with the overleaves including the number of lives we may have already had will influence our "take" on any "data" received. I find it very hard to communicate how I see things with others. Half the time, I'm at a total lose for the "word or words" that I might use that "others" will understand. The limitations are endless....sigh. Sure is nice to actually find others who will let me blunder along and so many even understand... LOL!!!! I love it!!!!! Hugs, cause you never can get to much..
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 05:07:36 -0400 Dear Sarah (Lynda Williams), Below please find your overleaves per Kenneth Broom, September 4, 1997
Comments: P.S. Michael just gave a great big smile just for you. Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:58:19 +0200 Hi there from South Africa, Ken - about people listing their overleaves to help us all understand where they are coming from - Absolutely super idea. Have you read " Spirit at Work" by Lois Grant? (published by Joya's Emerald Wave) Lois gives the channelled overleaves of herself and the people she writes about. Gives us all a lot more insight about the author and the subjects.. Your comments about channels getting different overleaves are very valid. How we do it here is to take the channelled chart and then each of us goes about comparing notes with others in the group who have the same role or particular overleaf. For example all those with ARROGANCE as a chief feature check to see what situations provoke that chief feature. We check to see if it is always a case of FEAR OF BEING JUDGED. We find out if any have tried sliding to SELF DEPRECATION to see if there has been better luck. Failing this we compare notes to see who has successfully managed to walk the tightrope between the negative pole (Vanity) and the positive pole (Pride) of ARROGANCE. Personal success stories of a valuable attempt to stay in the positive side of ARROGANCE encourage others to find new ways to do the same thing. Having done all this preparation and research and heard examples, we are in a much better position to self validate the overleaf that has been channelled for us. Well said Christopher I couldn't have inspired anyone better: BTW, don't mistake being an old soul for being enlightened. I know several old souls that are far less "enlightened" than my baby soul aunt. Also be aware that although you may "younger" than you would like, in actuality you've probably been around for multiple cycles, so in effect it doesn't matter if you're a mature soul or whatever vs somebody else being an old soul. You may have more cycles than them Note to Audrey and Brin and a later posting to Gloria (Shepherd's Cadre 3?) Audrey wrote:"By the way, Brin, I also am cadre three (Shepherd), entity four!" By the way, all the way from South Africa, I too have been channelled by Shepherd as Cadre 3 Entity 4 with a 2/3/1 casting. What has been channelled as your casting by Shepherd, Brin and Audrey? And Gloria too? Ed wrote:
I would agree with your perception on this and I would like to add some other bits that I have found interesting as regards the influence your casting has on your life. I have found out that as you keep your casting for the entire CYCLE, that influence carries through from life to life- almost like a cache of internet information. I have found a strong link between the goals or ideals of each of the groupings you belong to (Entity, Greater Cadence, Cadence and even position) with TRUE WORK, TRUE STUDY, TRUE REST and TRUE PLAY. Would you or anyone else like to comment further? To Gina: Love to the Michael List, Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 08:34:31 -0400 Bill Lanning (born in Kansas City, Missouri on Oct 31, 1944.), Below please find your overleaves per Kenneth Broom, September 4, 1997
Comments: Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 07:53:58 -0400 V.G. Avice du Buisson wrote:
Gay, I haven't yet read that book. But it sounds like a great idea. How about the idea of publishing the overleaves of all candidates for public office. Including their polarities. This is public information available to all who have the skills to access them. I expect this will happen in the not-to-far future. Or for fiction writers to design their characters around overleaves. How about a role-playing game based on overleaves, or an Overleaf Chess Game? The potential uses for overleaves are almost limitless.
This sounds like a very interesting way to compare overleaves.
Experience is a great teacher. Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 09:09:37 -0400 Dear Joseph J. Speakman (born 4/16/1975 at 4:16 PM in Eastern PA)
Comments: Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 09:37:27 -0400 Dear Gina Matthews, Below please find your overleaves per Kenneth Broom, September 4, 1997
Comments: Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 09:44:17 -0400 Sorry, Gina. I sent off this post before checking the overleaves. At this time you're in the "positive" pole of the goal of Growth (comprehension), not balanced polarity. Kenneth Broom ----- Kenneth Broom wrote:
-- Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 10:05:38 -0400 Dear Julia Ladd, dob: 9/16/61, aka kjal, Below please find your overleaves per Kenneth Broom, September 4, 1997
Comments: Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:20:58 +-1200 Dear Kenneth, Thank you "Very" much for doing this chart for me!!!!! From what I was able to put together myself which wasnt alot, you have confirmed what I thought and I'm delighted! I didnt trust myself to choose where I felt I fitted but did strongly relate to being an old soul very much so. I had trouble with the level where I was tossing between 5th and 6th level. Feeling that so far things have been very tough for me in this life I was thinking it could be the sixth because of the karmic debt aspect! On going thru the questionaire at the Michael Teachings site I actually got a Scholar for my role but I did have trouble deciding whether or not to tick some options or not and didnt trust that result! I did not go any further as not being sure about what I had done so far I didnt want to end up fooling myself. Now I have this information I can continue reading and learning, knowing that with what you've told me I might just be able to relate and understand it better. I've had to order some of the Michael books through the local bookstore here as those ones are not ordered in for shelf stock and hopefully I will have them in a few weeks. I cant wait to get started on reading them! Thanks again Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 10:39:26 -0400 John Rogers wrote: > [clipped]
See below for John's overleaves.
John, Lori's visualizations are the type that I started with many years ago. They have evolved to where I now use just one word or a short phrase to accomplish now what used to require a whole visualization process.
I too would like hear these other means and methods.
I surely hope so. ----- Dear John Rogers, Below please find your overleaves per Kenneth Broom, September 4, 1997
Comments per Michael Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Thu, 4 Sep 97 14:39:58 UT Dave, Diane
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 11:02:20 -0400 Dear Joycelyn M Mire, Below please find your overleaves per Kenneth Broom, September 4, 1997
Comments: Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 11:04:31 -0400 Joycelyn, what is a Cajun Traiteur? Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:24:57 +0000 This is what I come up with on my own for overleaves. They have not been validated in any form whatsoever. Meyers-Briggs and birth data follow for those so inclined. Also the address of a web site with an online Meyers-Briggs questionnaire. OVERLEAVES Age and Role: 3rd level old (?) scholar, with some heavy warrior
bleedthrough MEYERS-BRIGGS TYPE INTJ BIRTH DATA December 26, 1962 For those of you wanting to check out Meyers-Briggs, go to: http://www.keirsey.com John Rogers Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 11:30:13 -0400 Dear Dave Wilson, (born Sept. 29 1954 @ 9am in Montreal Canada.) Below please find your overleaves per Kenneth Broom, September 4, 1997
Comments: Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:25:57 +0000 Kenneth you are tireless. Thank you. Our posts crossed this morning, and I have found that you (Michael) validated some of what I discovered, but we didn't completely agree.
Bouncing between 4th and 5th could explain why I thought 3rd. On reviewing Joya Pope's explanation of the levels this makes sense to me.
I still feel my scholar attributes outweigh the warrior. The warrior is strong, but I feel the scholar is stronger.
This one is obvious for me. No question whatsoever.
This one doesn't resonate with me. I am well-liked, but it isn't important to me. I don't care if I'm liked and am not afraid to make statements that would cause people not to like me (such as challenging supporters of the status-quo.)
This was one of my coin-tosses. I chose Cynic over Pragmatist, but this works for me. Makes complete sense.
An obvious one for me, and yes I am rationalizing the hell out of things. I am very familiar with both poles of my center. Thank you for reminding me to be conscious of them.
This was my other coin toss. I was torn between Arrogance and Stubborness, but rationalized my way out of choosing Stubborness ; ).
Well, there's that Acceptance again. I am going to have to spend some time on this one so I can come to a better understanding. Hmm, better get back to observing so I can work my stubborn and independent self forward. Thanks, Kenneth, for taking the time to do this. My wheels are really spinning right now. I need to go digest this without rationalizing it to death. Sending Love your way. John Rogers Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:16:54 +0000 Kenneth Broom wrote (in part):
I love this idea. In fact, I haven't yet seen it here, but would the channels who feel so inclined be willing to give a "causal-eye" view of current events from time to time? Princess Diana seems an obvious example. I seem to recall she was a baby server--just what is served by her death? Sure, as a collective we get to examine issues surrounding the press, privacy, celebrity, etc., but what else is at work here? Love always, Dean Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 11:46:29 -0700 Hi Diane and everyone, The last post had been on my mind for some days, but I was tired when I actually wrote it. I was trying to get across encouragement, that although we may currently perceive ourselves as fragments of a whole with various limitations of perception and so on, we're really so much more. Through the higher centers and staying in the positive poles etc, we can expand our awareness even here and now. Don't despair about the fragment's differences. That certainly wasn't the intended message. Deep communion and essence contact is available to us, and makes all the difference. Best to everyone, Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 12:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Hello I'm back for the moment.... I hope I wasn't offending anyone saying that I thought some of the overleaf postings information could be put to private e-mails--I just wanted to try to keep a few of the guidelines of the mailing lists on Spiritweb, but as we all know I'm sure, that rules were meant to be broken (sometimes). I do commend Kenneth and Kate for their offering to assist list members by channeling their overleaves for them and I feel it really is good work. My role as list operator is not one of a dictator, and I think you're all right in your opinions on the subject, I can see all the points of view (how scholarly ;P) and I want everyone to feel free to say what they like here. Please just remember all your posts get archived on Spiritweb, so anything you can do to keep down any clutter (like by taking out pieces of posts you are replying to that are unnecessary) is very helpful. The archive is the only place where the delete key doesn't work. Having this list with all of you here has been very uplifting to me, and our little community here, if I may call it that, has given me a lot of satisfaction (which has always been something this little Scholar in Growth has had a real hard time finding--but then Steve Cocconi told me that the motto of the Goal of Growth is, "I can't get no satisfaction," and whew, what a relief it was to hear that!) in ways I had never expected. You all (all of us) are what make the list what it is. You give it heart and soul and a living connection between us all and I love you all for it!!!! Thank you all SO MUCH for being here, I honor you all. Namaste. Someone asked me if I'd have more on that "poles of the emotions" web-page, and I don't know, I'll see what I can do as time permits. I tend to be one who doesn't always finish what I've started (another Growth thing I suppose--always going, OK, that was interesting, what's next?) And to comment on John Rogers' asking about my channeling method, it's true that it's a great way to start out, but after you've been channeling a while you don't really need it anymore, or just once in a while. Once you've mastered it you can let it go, to put in Michael terms. :^) Nowadays I often just "hear" stuff I channel in my head, and it just comes spontaneously. I still really like the method though, when I'm doing something more "formal." It tends to release blocks very well to let you open yourself up to the channeling more. Thanks for your comments! Gosh I hope I haven't left out anyone's questions to me. Let me know if I did. Love and Hugs (because I think we all need lots of them!), Lori :) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Dear Ken, Kate and others -- I guess I stand corrected, maybe rebuked. That's okay, it builds character, as they say. I apologize for any disharmony in here I may have created. I'm not persuaded, but c'est la vie. All the best, Ed Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 22:59:23 +0200 Hi folks, John Rogers wrote:
These days I don't do much prep work to channel, I do centre and ground myself, and if I am really stressed take a few moments to clear my chakras and aura of miscellaneous junk. Then I type out the question and let Michael answer. I am one who needs a fairly quiet environment to channel and once into it I go pretty far away (i.e. move deeper into trance). My Astral guides had been speaking to me for about 10 years before I started channeling Michael. I went through a fairly intense religious period (yes, I am a Priest) and I started hearing them when praying. At first I thought it was the voice of God, and that God had a marvellous warm and loving sense of humour. Later I learned more about who was really speaking. My point is that it is that kind of stillness that makes contact possible (for me anyway). When I was just starting out with Michael I did try some of the visualisation techniques suggested in _Opening_to_Channel_ by Roman and Packer... until Michael interrupted with: "We don't need all this rigamarole" and since then I've kept it simple. Having said that about my own channeling methods I want to commend Lori's article to anyone who hasn't read it. The methods she describes are the first steps in any number of different kinds of contacts and experiences on the higher planes. Any witch or shaman will recognise these techniques. Cheers, Katherine Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 17:23:24 -0400 Kenneth Broom wrote:
Kenneth re-replied: Dean, you're asking some really good questions here, and who of us would really care enough to do this kind of stuff anyway? :>)# Plus... how could the general public be made aware of the import of a set of overleaves? Maybe someone could write a high-action, big special-effects adventure/romance/business/sports/space movie, or novel, in which overleaves played a very important part. It would have to be geared down to a young soul level though. Hey Kate, how about some help here after you've done with your present book. Or maybe send a bunch of politicians' overleaves and interpretations to all the major Print/TV/Business media people giving their personal overleaves to each other, and watch 'em break their brains trying to out-agape each other. And the more I think about it I "really" like the idea of a win-win overleaf role-playing game something like the Dungeons and Dragons stuff. Each player could initially choose their own overleaves. And grow through the soul age levels until they pass out of the infinite soul level and have to become the game master (aka The TAO). And what would really be neat is that "all" of the players have to cooperate in order to gain exerience points and skill points and wisdom points and move up the soul age ladder. Man, now that would really be one mean growth game. It could be a board game or maybe even a computer game (gasp) computers and overleaves... arrrggghhhh no!!!!!!! they're everywhere, there're everywhere, I've been "overleafed". Man, after all the overleaf channeling I've been doing lately this discussion is what I needed to lighten up a bit. Thanks a lot, Dean. I really needed this. You know what? I'll bet some of this stuff will really happen. Actually, the political stuff "needs" to happen. Actually it all "can" happen. Hey listers, got any more real life public exposure possibilities? :>)# John Rogers, thanks for the compliment, but I'm not "feeling" too tireless at the moment. Whew! I think tomorrow (Friday the 5th) will be the last day for this freebie marathon. I've about had it for a while. I luv yez all. Peace and Light to evva body, Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:55:39 -0700 Hi Everyone, In reference to use of overleaves....Are there some delicate lines here? The caste system in India began with recognizing similar awarenesses about roles. Instead of being used in a way of self-understanding, it became a tool of bondage. How do we not fall into the same trap? Right now, overleaves and the michael information are fairly new on the scene. Perhaps how we choose to use this information responsibly and disseminate it has a larger impact than we may be aware of at the moment. As a system of self-understanding, as a system of understanding differences enabling us to reach greater compassion and deeper communion through agape and better understand the inner workings of our world.....(?) At what point do we cross into territory that is an imposition rather than an opening up. Certainly, by our discussions here, we can see that overleaf information is not infallable. It's one thing if someone asks. They sort of take their chances and need to do the work of inner exploration and self-validation to see if the information feels valid and to come to use it as a tool for growth and understanding in their lives. But at some point, doesn't it become a potential imposition on another if their overleaves are shared publicly-- perhaps not even accurate overleaves --? In a more private way, comparing and recognizing overleaves to come to a greater understanding is a sort of learning tool. Only the people studying are influenced if the information is wrong. Maybe by the very nature of how we come to the information, there will always be a degree and sometimes a large degree of inaccuracy. Where do we cross from a learning tool into something else that might create another system that's imposed on us rather than freeing to us? In regards to Kenneth's most recent post, can people ever really be manipulated or embarrassed into agape? There's such a great tendency in our current world to use information to
separate, rather than see how we're part of one interwoven whole. If we say
to someone, It feels like there are so many subtleties here. Real mixed feelings about all of this. Once again as I've so often felt as an old soul in a younger soul world, my sensibilities or aesthetics seem out of step with the larger group. Are there ways we can have care not to fall into the same traps as the last time some of this information was brought through? Currently, over all, the free will of waiting until people ask for the information is a natural safe guard. (Yes, I'm aware of the overleaves posted of famous people....which has an element of being a great teaching/learning tool. I'm just wondering when it crosses from something useful and maybe fun, to something more ?) As a tool for self awareness, the wonderful thing about this system is that people can come to a sense of their role and overleaves just by going within. They can come to have a sense of what causes other people's differences through their own study and focus of attention, through their own growth of awareness. Just knowing that there are all these differences and appreciating why they exist can help to look again when there is a misunderstanding. Food for thought. Perhaps many subtle issues of responsibility. Does anyone else have concerns around responsibility and self-responsibility, both as students and as channels? Best to everyone, Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:14:55 +0000
You guys may really be onto something here. And yes, it definately would have to be accessible to the lowest common denominator. I remember seeing a movie a couple of years ago where reincarnation was the main theme. It was pretty simplified, but it was awesome. I remember getting big rushes and telling my wife excitedly, "That's the way it really works! Someone actually pulled this off. That's the way it really works!" It was actually a fairly popular movie, though I can't remember the title.
I was amazed by the steady stream of overleaves that kept coming across the list. Maybe instead of tireless, how about selfless? Thanks again. John Rogers Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:14:55 +0000 Oops, deleted that last post then thought of something else to say. Must have been an old soul that mentioned Dungeons and Dragons and expected everyone else to know what he was talking about. Must've been another old soul that knew what he was talking about and responded. Okay, all of you weirdo old souls that played Dungeons and Dragons raise your hands. Just an observation (there I go observing again), but I think that could go on a list of old soul indicators. John Rogers Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:14:55 +0000
Thanks for your reply, Katherine. I assume by your answer that you are using automatic writing (typing), rather than hearing or giving up your vocal cords?
Again, are you using a different method to channel Michael? Sounds like you were previously hearing voices, but are now typing replies. Are you typing what you hear, or does Michael take control of your hands? John Rogers Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 16:33:55 -0700 (PDT) On 4 Sep 1997, Brin wrote:
What a great post Brin. I think you really hit the nail on the head here, and I always try to emphasize that the Michael teachings are about agape, and the tools utilized in the teachings are about discernment. They are not etched in stone and should not be used to put people into boxes of limitation, but to seek clarity and understanding of the nature of being human. Sometimes the Whole can be seen better when we know what the parts are that make it up. I don't like it when people use the fact that they are such-and-such (like a Stoic, a Mature soul, a Saggitarius, etc.)as an excuse for not putting effort into moving forward in their lives (in whatever way they do.) It is about responsibility, and accountability, totally. And I know that it is my problem--I'm too attached to the results--I want to see people move forward, get out of their addictive patterns, and really be themselves, not trapped into what someone else thinks they should be, act, or whatever. So....I apply it to myself, my own life, and don't require it so much of others. (It isn't really about them.) Well, that's my opinion.... Love, Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:13:36 +0000 In response to Brin and Lori - Hinduism and Buddhism aren't about Dharma either. But the fact remains that we are here as individual parts of the whole to accomplish specific tasks that contribute to the group work. Something I struggle with constantly is "What is my purpose here, and how can I fulfill that purpose?" Overleaves, astrology, numerology, etc can all be used to help focus on that. They need not be limiting. They are indicators. They are tools. And yes, there does need to be some self-validation. But the fact remains that we are fulfilling specific roles, and must be aware of those roles to progress. Knowledge of them does not automatically place one in a box. John Rogers Date: Fri, 5 Sep 97 01:02:12 UT Brin-thanks for reminding us that the differences are really part of the "fun" of the game. So true. I have a tendency to get a bit frustrated when I get blocked and can't communicate with others in complete understanding. (okay.. so I was looking at the negative....<g> thanks for pointing it out. <vbg>) Ed-you are character building with all of us. That's the beauty of this list. I do believe that we all completely understand one thing. We are in it together...<silly grin> All part of the learning that we keep trying to grasp. I stumble and then keep going. Thank heavens we are allowed to disagree sometimes. I believe the game would be dull otherwise. Ken-hmmm and I thought no one had noticed my comment last Saturday about building a virtual reality computer game to help teach the overleaves. Obviously my off the wall comment wasn't so off the wall if others are thinking along the same lines. Hmmm.... I always wonder, are we projecting to each other and thus have these massive collective thoughts along the same lines or is some higher knowledge sending them to us? I thought that Princess Di was a Mature soul.. and that it is Queen Elizabeth who is the baby soul? I do believe that trying to stick to rigid rules and protocol is a very telling sign. The overwhelming public outcry must be scary for her. Lori-hope your 'puter is better!!!!! Now is someone out there could please help me with finding that darn wall for the universe....It HAS to be there somewhere...<g> Hugs cause we never get enough, Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 20:48:00 -0500 The best definition I have for Cajun Traiteur is that it is the Cajun
equivalent of a Reiki Master. The main difference being that the healing
prayers that are said during a healing treatment are orally handed down from
generation to generation. The language used is Cajun French. Traiteur, is
Cajun French for one who heals by treatment. My father taught my brother and
I his treatments to have us carry on the family tradition of healing. Kenneth Broom wrote:
-- Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 23:16:07 -0400 Ed and Dean, I like what both of you are saying, and as the "mouthy Sage" <G> who maybe started the whole controversy, I can think of (always <G>) another issue to bring up: Enjoy the free readings and discussions while they last, because Kenneth and I will probably burn out soon. <G> As for me personally and posting any more readings for discussion: I'm going out of town for five days tomorrow, and my dh reminds me that when I get back, if I can't control myself I'm going to have to think about taking myself off the list because I have a book to finish writing. :} I'm supposed to be using my Sage-iness in my writing rather than wearing out all you poor Scholars talking you to death by e-mail. <G> (The rest of you roles can probably stand the long-winded discussions a bit more than get-to-the-bottom-line Scholars. <G>)
I have to say that I really agree that just because some channels need a picture doesn't mean other do in order to be accurate. For my own part, I can't imagine ever needing a picture of anyone or having to look at it to get a reading, but I can see the point SH and others are making, that they want to be absolutely sure they are plugging into the right "file" in the akashic records. I think I have been doing this kind of channeling for so many lifetimes that I'm just on auto-pilot with it. <G>
I like this thought, Dean. I must confess that I have struggled with the "gratitude" question a lot, though. My internal instruction from higher self, essence, guides, Universe, whatever one wants to name it (my internal "truth" center) for decades now has been that if people don't acknowledge the value of what they are receiving from me, it gets taken away. Even in the years when I was too young and naively generous to stop the flow myself, I would be pulled away from the ungrateful recipient of my channeled largesse or the person would otherwise "disappear" from my life. I was internally trained as as a channel from the beginning to take any "gratitude" received and offer it upwards to Source (vs. sucking it into my ego). This allows the goodies to keep flowing from Source, the recipient of the goods acknowledging that something, in fact, has been received by him/her via the channel. It's that old spiritual law of making room, you might say. If you don't acknowledge you've received a gift, there is a very strong possibility that either (a) you haven't even noticed that you have, in fact, gotten a gift, and/or (b) you are taking that gift for granted, or possibly, (c) you are so busy all the time (like a kid in a toystore) asking, asking, asking, that you forget what you've asked for and when something arrives you toss it aside with a shrug and a, "Who the hell wants this old thing?" IOW, how can more gifts fit into your, for lack of a better term, "gift holding place" <G>, if you don't make a place for them by inviting them in with acknowledgement aka gratitude? This is what my internal guidance has been, anyway. I know that for me the key to constant abundance is acknowledgement and appreciation. I decided 25 years ago that my greatest gift in this lifetime would be my ability to appreciate and value the people around me and the gifts of knowledge and love that come to me. :) So this has turned me into a librarian in the "cosmic lilbrary," but also a library patron with an exceedingly well-used library card. <G>
Dean, "process" is one of my favorite words. :) In my 20s I used the word "intense" as my highest superlative <G> (I am in observation with a very strong slide to passion), in my 30s it was the word "growth" (I am growth), and the past 8 or nine years of my late 30s and early to mid-40s, I find I savor and revel in the word "process." Now what overleaf shall I attribute that too? Probably the Sage/Scholar/Priest mix makes it inevitable. <G> Ed and Dean, this *is* personal: I enjoy you both. A lot. ;> Kate Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 23:41:50 -0400 John Rogers wrote:
John, I really enjoyed your post about channeling. I sent one the other day in reply to Kenneth asking how I channel. If you want to look it up, it is this one:
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 23:44:58 -0400 Diane Thanks for your post and your kind remarks. One of the things I love most about the Michael teachings is that once we know what we all are, we don't have as strong a tendency to expect others to be something other than the very one they are. :) This is one of the few places (other than when I'm being paid to teach and lecture or give counsel) that I'm forgiven for being a Sage. <G> Kate Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 23:57:01 -0400 Joycelyn M Mire wrote:
Jocelyn, Can you write what experience you have of the Michael Teachings? Have you ever tried to ponder out your own overleaves? I loved the fact that John Rogers tried to figure his out and posted them before getting a reading. This has been suggested as we've all brainstormed here today as a sign of "good faith" to Michael, and I'd like to make that another "condition" for doing a freebie. It felt really, really good doing John's reading with that info/effort in hand. :) Kate Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 23:59:37 -0400
Anyone got a clue why an e-mail I sent to JP Van Hulle inquiring about tapes would end up on this list??? Kate Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 00:34:37 -0400 John Rogers wrote:
John, thanks. It's very late, and I really wanted to reply to Brin's post. You said what I wanted to say. And you, Lori, said what else I wanted to say. Hear hear, to both of you. Great post, Brin, very thought provoking. :) Kate Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 02:31:11 -0400 (EDT) A few various small points.... When I mentioned about Shepherd asking for a photo, I should have added that he doesn't need it or use it to channel; he does lots of charts without them. It is my impression that he wants the photo so he, personally, as a Michael student, can look at it and see what overleaves he sees. This is just his own personal learning of the ability of picking up overleaves, which many students do. Then when he gets the info from Michael he compares, and sometimes he asks Michael to clarify why it's this and not that one. (This info is in his book.) So just being the curmudgeon purist here, as usual, I'd expect that someone who purports to channel Michael also purports to being one of the 100,000 or so people in the cadres that they have teaching agreements with....at least, a "student"...and that if I were channeling someone's overleaves, I would bloody well want to verify my work. I'd want to know that I was dispensing pure accurate info. (It doesn't matter what the standard of accuracy is, either....you need to verify.) I would want to follow up by talking with the person or observing them or whatever so that I can learn where I was right and wrong in order to improve the overleaf-picking-up. When we talk about the overleaves of celebrities or politicians and all the things that could be done.....there is, first of all, no authority on what anyone's overleaves actually are. Everyone changes what they are using frequently and only if you know someone fairly well can you know for sure what their real overleaf pattern is. We don't probably know the politicians and celebrities that well, sorry. When different channels get differing results for the same person, and they usually do, it is not only an embarassment to the reputation of both, it casts disrepute on the accuracy of channels in general. I'd only ever publicly say someone's overleaves were XYZ if I personally knew that for a fact, by being well-enough acquainted with the person. Time and time again I think the point needs to be made: people have always grown, and loved, and even loved unconditionally, without knowing about overleaves and astrology or numerology. If one had a goal to strive towards love and away from fear it would be plenty good enough. We need to know the positives and negatives of our own overleaves just for general life management quality control. But life is about making choices. It is not about overleaves or astrology or numerology. All the best, ed Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 05:15:30 -0400 Diane L. Smith wrote: [clipped]
Maybe an idea whose time is coming.
How about both. Plus there are also the Star Trek Holo Decks and Holo Suites. I just can't wait until these gadgets are real. Just imagine viewing history from inside. Wow.
Correcto. The Princess is a Mature Priest. The Queen is a Baby Scholar. The Queen Mum is a Mature Warrior. [clipped]
Unsettling to say the least. Like "What am I doing wrong!!??" [clipped] Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 05:19:49 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-09-05 04:42:58 EDT Kate McMurry writes:
Kate...I've been meaning to ask you what your abbreviation, "DH" means? My first inclination was that it was "dear husband", but then I had a horrifying thought that it might be "DEAD husband." As you continued to use it in other letters, I couldn't help substituting various meanings to "DH." I wondered, could it be..."Designated Hitter", "Despot Hairdresser", "Deliriously Horny", "Dumb Hotdog", "Damn Holturculturist", "Demon Hotflashes", "Dilapitated Hooters", or worse yet, "Darling Harry." ;-p Kate...I wait with bated breath for your reply. :p)= Dave - So is the overleaf war still going on? "Get me a rake, dammit. Somebody get me a rake!!!!" Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 06:41:09 -0400 Dear Linda S, Nelson-Escamilla, aka Night Hawk Watching. Below please find your overleaves per Kenneth Broom, September 4, 1997
Comments: Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 07:00:02 -0400 Dear Sheri Casy - sheri (43 year old female, Spiritual student for 25
years, active psychic for 20 years, spiritual teacher for 20 years)
Below please find your overleaves per Kenneth Broom, September 5, 1997
Comments: Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 07:15:28 -0400 Steve Scott wrote:
I suggest you check out Lori Tostado's pages at "http://members.spiritweb.org/michael-teachings/"
Lori's pages should have this.
Below please find your overleaves per Kenneth Broom, September 5, 1997
Comments: -- Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 07:29:19 -0400 Well now, my brothers and sisters of the Michael Teachings List... I've finally reached the point where the freebie marathon must come to an end. I'd now like to pursue other threads in more detail. This exercise has been fun and magnificently growthful. The Michaels have literally been resting their Light and Love on the shoulders of my consciousness during all of this. And this has strengthened my human/causal self confidence and abilities immensely. I'll still do a few overleaves now and then, but only a few, and only now and then. You'll have to pardon me if I don't immediately respond to overleaf requests. I thank all of you for your appreciations and comments. Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 08:39:20 -0400 Dave, As the party in question (Kate's DH), I can say that it usually means
Dear Husband, Christopher Dave Gregg wrote:
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:59:40 +0000 Kate, thank you for your response. I won't have time to digest it completely tonight, but I wanted to thank you now in case you take leave from the list for an extended period. After I have had time to ponder your response as well as Ken's I will make another post. I will say now that Greed doesn't resonate with me, though I can sense it's presence at times. Thanks again. John Rogers Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 08:54:03 -0400 Regarding my crazy post about the possible uses of overleaves: I was just blowing out some whimsical fun energy not to be taken too
seriously. Maybe this engineer (me) got hoist on his own petard per Michael of the Overleaves: "It would also be "good work" to ask the person's Higher Self for (1) permission to publish the fragment's overleaves, and (2) if the publication of such overleaves would be of service to the fragment, the channeler, and to the readers. In other words, would this be "good work" for all involved? "The issue of consistency among channelers will be resolved as the channelers themselves become more skilled in their own cleansing, questioning, accessing, channeling, and information gathering abilities. A good way to increase these skills would be for the channelers themselves to repeatedly go back after some time has passed, and repeat the overleaf channelings that they have already done, to see if they can get the same overleaves for the same people. When a channel can do this fairly consistently (better than 95% of the time) we'd consider this form of validation to be a sign of sufficient skill to attempt "safe and harmless" overleaf publishing. "We say again that the choice of what, when, and if to publish is an individual choice." Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 01:32:58 +-1200 Ken, I would like to thank you again for doing my overleaves for me and I know the others will be thanking you too. Your time put into this exercise is much appreciated, as are your other postings re the Michael Teachings. Thanks & Love Gina Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:18:11 +0000
You are absolutely right. But if we didn't need to go through a long arduous process of getting to love, agape, the ascension, pick your label, we wouldn't be here. Overleaves, astrology, numerology, etc are tools to help us get there. Maybe you are beyond that, but there are many others who are not. Not everyone is able to just unconditionally love everyone else. There is an evolution that must take place. Overleaves, etc can be used as tools to help understand why entities are the way they are. Say someone has hurt me, and I am not able to accept that, and just love them for what they are. Overleaves, astrology, etc could be used as a tool for me to have a better understanding of why they hurt me (or why I allowed myself to be hurt), and that knowledge could assist me in loving them and letting go of the situation.
I don't think simply having that goal is enough for most, though it certainly may be for you. Are you an ACIM student? That statement sounds very Marianne Williamson. She is incredible. I have many of her tapes.
I don't think anyone here has said that life is "about" overleaves, etc. Some may place more importance on them than you do, but it is probably because they need that at this time. And for those, such as myself, that are not advanced students of the teachings, exploring overleaves is a good introduction to the Michael "system". John Rogers Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 13:41:36 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-09-05 08:40:02 EDT Kate McMurry writes:
Thanks, Harry. M'I dalg uoy deraelc taht pu. Dave :-) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:57:27 -0800 Why is it that everytime I read the postings to this list do I leave feeling so annoyed?! It seems everyone is having such a good time and rather blissfully discussing things, but I just find myself not relating (to but a few). The whole overleaf debate/discussion thing seems so great of an idea in theory, but how many people are actually experienced MICHAEL CHANNELS getting these. I think in order to validate the "channeled" overleaves, one should express how this is being obtained (as someone suggested before), but I don't think the "newbies" should blindly accept any of the overleaves shared with them, unless there is a genuine truth being felt BY THEM. I am not knocking anyone in particular, but I have gotten a little frustrated with this mentality of justifying bad channeling. If you are wrong, you are wrong. It's happened to the best of us and to explain conflicting channeling away with all of these "reasons" defeats the purpose, I think, of just humbly saying, "we! don't really know". I have been lucky enough to have had some frightening experiences with clients who had had a previous session with a professional, well-established Michael channel. Of course, NOT knowing made it easier to bypass any anxiety I would have had, but when the sessions started, Michael picked up where they left off with the client in the last session!!! Astonishing and frightening me and my clients at this apparent validity of their presence was exhillerating! NOT that I suggest people NOT tell of previous sessions, but in these rare occasions only about 5-10% conflicted with their previous sessions. With a lot of people "experimenting" with the overleaves, it seems to become a pseudo science and only speculation can be accomplished. MICHAEL IS REAL. BUT they communicate in clearly distinct ways. MOst of what passes for channeling Michael, I find to be psychic guessing and COULD be incredibly valuable, if it were acknowledged as such. I, MYSELF, have o! nly met one channel that I felt was completely deluded in their channeling. Though the text/written channeling was insightful, I found too much theatrics and "stuff" to be weeded through and justified. In my experiences with JP, HOLLY, AARON, EMILY, JOYA, TED, and others (either in transcripts, or recorded sessions with groups or privates, or directly) I have never heard them have to "explain away" bad channeling. I think it's admirable and healthy to acknowledge that as an ultimate possibility in all conflicting channeling. I have read in Shepherd's book about the "circuit" being weakened, but this doesn't make much sense to me. I hate to be this brat in the middle of all this loving, but I feel it's worth it to the newbies to NOT take "dabbling" with MICHAEL as actually being a MICHAEL CHANNEL. Just be wise to yourselves out there, and listen to your own highest authority in the end, and also know that religious terminology and heirarchial terminology are simply NOT michael channeling and those who find this as a context for their belief system can greatly influence Michael's information... channeled or not... be loved and please forgive my intrusion... Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:28:07 +0000 Lori posted this on 25 Aug, and it is apparently from Michael channeled by Ted Fontaine. It is pertinent to our ongoing discussion of the importance and uses of overleaves.
John Rogers Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 14:01:27 -0800 I've never heard of the cadre numbers being assigned by first come first serve from Michael ever. The numbers and positions are chosen in the sorta holding place while leaving the tao and organizing for our explorations. The numbers are even more indicative of our nature than even our role, but in a given lifetime, both are considered almost equal. The casting position and our relationship to other's casting is what is refered to on the higher planes when our ROLES' influence diminishes almost altogether.... Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 23:09:11 +0200 Hi John (and everyone), you asked:
That's right, almost all the time... on a couple of occaisions I have been explaining the Michael teachings to someone in relation to some individual problem they had, trying very hard to say what Michael would say and suddenly found that I was standing outside (so to speak) and Michael had taken over the narration. It isn't my usual method however.
Earlier with the Astral guides I didn't have much control over when I would hear from them. They spoke up when they had something to say and when I was able to listen (mostly the latter I suspect). These days I also channel them, just as I do Michael (at the computer), but they still pipe up when they have something to say, even more often than before.
That depends on how deeply in trance I am. I always hear what they are saying, but when I am really far away I have virtually no part in the typing (or writing). Sometimes though the typing is a combined effort... more integrated. Strangely I haven't noticed any differences in the accuracy or completeness of what is channeled with the different kind of trance experiences. Thanks for asking, Katherine Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 19:35:58 -0400 (EDT) "WARNING! DANGER! Dr.Smith, Dr.Smith!!!" In a message dated 97-09-05 13:58:43 EDT, Otterly writes:
You made some fine points, Troy. I'm just a newbie to this game, but my assessment is that the overleaves should first be sought and discovered by researching our inner selves before we attempt to validate the results with a channeler. This way the reading will be of immediate use to us as we compare it to our own personal findings. I suppose we need to remember that we are essentially "students" of our overleaves, and the Michael teachings, and as with any curriculum, the greatest good is achieved when the knowledge assimilated is gained through study and personal exploration, rather than simply being "spoon-fed" the information one heaping mouthful at a time. Regarding the recent overleaves channeled on this list, I think that if the recipients did some of the preparations that I previously mentioned, then the overall experience was certainly a positive one for them, and potentially educational. In terms of the channelers themselves, if learning this skill is like learning any other endeavor, then this experience was quite valuable to their personal growth, and the development of their channeling abilities as a whole; for as we know, any thing that requires repetition to master, requires that practice be a prerequisite. Just a newbie's opinion. :-) Dave Subject: Re: WARNING WARNING WARNING What do you mean: "just a newbie's opinion"?!! It sounds very intelligent and comprehensive. I know I sound so bitchy but I'm really not. I've had to explain that I am just a little shocked at the flippant yet authoritative approach of a few of these individuals seeming to set the context on the list. When I was exposed to Michael and the info, I found it validation and insight everywhere, even after becoming a channel. But it seems this list (and a few channels) are making it so confusing and meaningless, reducing valuable data to a word game. As I've said before to those responding to me: I know Michael as consistent and almost tangible. All but a few channels I've seen gain noteriety are incredible. A couple have goten a foothold that are taking bad channeling and justifying the mistakes by explaining it away istead of just saying "oh, I guess I was wrong all along". I mean "wrong" only in the context of cross-referencing channeled info and finding with great consitency a piece of information, then finding yours in direct conflict with it (like Shepherd's Cadre Numbering... what the hell is that?!) I think it is our job to stay clear and let Michael's info through, NOT make up our own teachings! If that's what we want to do, then it should be done, but MIhcael's fame should not be used as a bandstand for your own theories. Oh I get so riled!!! I have had incarnations, supposedly, where historical information was weritten down, then completely distorted over time; in later incarnations (like this one) you can feel the intensity of the non-truth. I guess I'm thinking unconsciously, "oh god, here we go again!" In the end it doesn't really matter, since there is no right way. I'm just taking astance on a personal issue I must learn from. Bottom line is that this is all just fun, I know, so don't think me too uptight. be good, I'm going on a channeling tour starting MON. so I won't be around the site much, but thanks for your wise! and informed response. HELP THE SITE! Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:41:36 +0000
Ed, if I have given you that perception, I apologize. The fact that I don't agree with you doesn't imply I am reacting in an extremist manner. In fact, the analogy you use is quite opposite my nature. I don't have the equivalent (emotionally, spiritually, physically, psychologically, or symbolically) of a bible. And even if I did, and you threw blood on it, I would just go get another. I have not reacted at all in the manner you have indicated. I merely disagreed.
I can kind of agree with you on this one. I know that when enlightenment does come, it is instantaneous. When that light comes on, it comes all the way on. But I am in growth. Growth is a hard road. I knew that before I ever heard of Michael. I also know that one can't "positive think" their way to enlightenment. A gardener can look at his garden and think "no weeds, no weeds, no weeds" all day. But if he doesn't get off his butt and pull weeds, guess what happens. You speak of reality, Ed. What is your basis for that reality? Please don't take this question as an attack. I am serious. I want to know. I am here to learn.
Again, I partially agree with you, but you must remember that we are all different, and it takes different actions and stimulus for each of us to "get it". I have not immersed myself in dry academic study, but my role is that of a scholar. So gathering information is my nature. Learning is my nature. It is a craving that drives me to depression if not fulfilled. It is what I attribute my growth to. Now that may manifest in a completely different form in ten years than it does now, but for now what I am doing works for me. Thank you for your comments. They stimulate introspection. I would say that is good work in anyone's book. John Rogers Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:09:21 +0000 Well, I think we have just about beaten the overleaves issue to death, but I wanted to follow through on my bargain. Ken and Kate's channelled overleaves for me as well as my own comments follow. ***************************
******************************* ROLE: Scholar ******************************** COMMENTS FROM JOHN Last first. I found the overleaves of my incarnate ET most interesting. Even moreso than mine. Why? Because they very nearly describe my wife! I wonder if that's what attracted me to her, and if her ET's overleaves resemble mine? Now that could get really interesting. As far as the channeled overleaves go, I found Kate's to nearly completely validate what I had done on my own, where Ken validated some, and had the other half of my "coin tosses" on two. I wonder how much of this can be attributed to the methodology used (with Kate reading my list and asking yes or no), and Ken's fatigue from having channeled so many overleaves. Anyway, here's what I come up with. Age: 4th level moving into 5th makes the most sense after reviewing the material again. Joya Pope's description of Madonna moving back and forth between the two resonates with me. Role: Scholar. This is obvious for me. I am an information packrat. I have reams of information I have found on the net, printed, and somewhat organized so that someday when maybe (doubtful) I need it I will be able to find it. I will note again though, that the warrior bleedthrough is very heavy. It has manifested in study of the martial arts, and service in the military. Mode: Observation. This too is very obvious for me. I have always been much more of an observer than a participant. I can even recall, through a thick alcohol haze, going to clubs and just watching the little melodramas play out for hours on end. Goal: Growth. Kate, you said you are a numerologist. Do fours and eights mean anything to you? 'nuff said. Attitude: Cynic. Pragmatist is a close second, but I have to go with cynic. This was the hardest one for me to figure out. And I am still not completely sure I'm not rationalizing the answer. Center: Intellectual. Chief feature: I am going to throw up my hands on this one for the moment. This will take some sorting out for me. All three of us came up with different answers, and I can see strong elements of all three. When I have it sorted out I will post to my profile on the web site. A bazillion thank you's to Ken and Kate. It was very generous of you two to give up your energy for this work. I hope you received it back tenfold. Thanks also to the list participants who have been testing their patience with this topic. I feel it is coming to an end for now, but I am sure it will pop up again in the future. I am anxiously awaiting new threads. For those of you looking for "Earth to Tao" and "Tao to Earth", I found them online at http://www.amazon.com. They are available for $10 and change, I believe 20% off suggested retail. John Rogers Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 00:33:48 +0200 Hi there, Gay here, Ed wrote:
I would just like to comment on this from the perspective as a healer working at a distance with animals for the past ten years. When you need to connect with a cocker spaniel in New York, can you imagine how many cocker spaniels live in New York even if you know the name of the cocker spaniel and the surname of the owner. Its O.K. - it can work but not easily. Now along comes the photo and you notice that although this is a golden cocker spaniel, he has a lot of white over his eyebrows - you have that much more information. If you send "white light" as healing to a friend you are expecting a great deal out of the "white light" and yes it works. The saying in Reiki is that healing goes where it is most needed. However imagine knowing that the middle toe on the front right foot of this particular golden cocker spaniel named Toby Soap, is giving this dog a lot of trouble, you can be much more specific in your intention of healing. So too with channelling the Michael information. We don't really need anything. But we can get distracted whilst doing the work. Having a photo in front of us means we can see and connect with the person for whom the information is intended and we have much more intention. In teaching and passing on information to others, Joya taught us how much we can actually see in a picture. We have compiled scrapbooks of celebrities showing the movement from early level Baby to 7th level Old and its quite remarkable how much you can read in a picture. I work with photographs so that I can pass on the technique Joya taught to me to others in the Michael Study Group - and it works. I have discovered that there are a couple of members on the list who are of the same Cadre #3 and same Entity #4 and of course that gives us great delight. Would there be any others of the same Entity who might like to comment on the "good work" of discussing the "flavour" of the Group? I am not sure if this "gathering of the clans" is of interest to the group as a whole or whether this should be addressed privately. Another question which I wonder if anyone can answer: Michael Handbook page 56 "Old Souls learn through terror" Our Michael Study group has been trying to work this one out and I thought I would address the list to see what your comments are. Thanks for all the great postings. Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 11:21:45 -0400 Hi Folks, Do any of you have any higher-center knowledge or experiences to share? I've seen so very little written about the higher centers with the reason being given that they are so rare. IMHO that's an unsatisfactory reason for not explaining them for the benefit of those of us who do experience the higher centers fairly easily. Higher Emotional Center: Higher Intellectual Center: Higher Moving Center: I seldom ever even try anymore to get into the higher centers. The experience can be extremely intense almost bordering on the uncomfortable. I can also see that they can become addictive. Like some of the sadhus in India who have become so God-intoxicated that they don't even take care of their body needs. Does anyone know if the Michaels have channeled in depth about the Higher Centers? If so what books is this information in? If not I guess I'll have to ask them myself. Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 11:42:17 +0000
Hi Kenneth, That's precisely what I was going to suggest. I think there is an opportunity for growth here. Why not ask the Michaels yourself, then seek out information already available (if there is any). Maybe some of the other channels here could ask, too, then you could all have a discussion on the list for all to read and participate in. John Rogers Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 14:41:30 -0500 Otterly, I like reading your posts. If I had the words to describe why I like your posts, I would use them. This is just to anyone in general: blah blah blah I have to say that I don't like posting because it is so excruciatingly
difficult for me to express myself with words. If I could get through life
without having to talk, I probably would. I was listening to this Radiohead
CD the other day, and there was this verse: "this machine will not
communicate/these thoughts/and the strain I am under". I have dreams
where I'm trying to communicate, to myself.. and I'm using a machine. ta ta. Melissa. Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:03:44 -0700 (PDT) On 7 Sep 1997, Kenneth Broom wrote:
Sure do, these being centers that fascinate me the most! :^D
I remember a lot of stuff about them, but I can't remember if I read it in one of the books or if it was in Stephen Cocconi's Michael classes or one of his monthly channeling meetings. Maybe if someone here has read this too they can tell us where it came from. All I remember is it came from Michael. (heh) I remember their saying that you can use the instinctive center as a kind of "gateway" to get into the higher centers. That's why lots of our greatest realizations and "ah-ha's" come to us when we're doing things like, taking a shower (instinctive center: ON: cleaning one's self), driving (instinctive center on: auto-pilot), things just seem to flow then from your Higher-self, as you enter a higher center through the instinctive. Repetitive physical rituals have often been used by many cultures as a way of putting the person into their instinctive center (like shamans) while they were moving into a higher-center. Sex is like that too in its potential.
Music is one way for me too! Another was this: I was shown a technique by michael directly for assisting people putting this "diamond" of light that was above their heads into their hearts, and the energy that I was channeling through my body was just incredible, the love was so strong coming from this source that I could hardly contain it because it was so intense, it would make me cry.... It's not so hard to handle now, but I don't do it often. The so called "negative" pole of the higher emotional center is empathy, but in the higher centers you must remember that the negative poles are not the same as for the other centers--they are just more limited than the positive poles. Empathy is an easy one for me--I pick up feelings of those around me very easily when I'm open or unconscious of them. People I have corded to in the heart chakra are often very easy to empathize with, no matter where they are. Sometimes I'll just know something's up. I like the higher-emotional center! :^)
Lori:
Not to be too prying, if this is too sensitive of an issue to you you don't have to answer, but I'm wondering if you had this experience during/after sex? I think there hasn't been a general concensus as to which center the higher moving or just the moving was the one the Yarbro books called the sexual center. I believe it's more related to the higher-moving center because of the oneness you can experience through it that can be so ecstatic. There have been only a few occasions I've experienced that way, so whole and at one with my partner, it defied words, so I can't explain it, but it happened sometimes.... Other times, it was just through like, I don't quite know how to describe it, soul-merging with someone, it wasn't physical, and also during the diamond-integration I mentioned above in the higher-emotional center, but feeling like I was really one with/ or I WAS the Universe, totally whole and complete. Admittedly, I really like this center a lot.....
I do seek them out, perhaps just due to my Growth or seeking adventure, something new....I just have this longing sometimes.
I don't go there though.
Go for it, Ken! :^D (BTW: computer at home's still not working right. Sorry if I haven't responded to some of my e-mails yet. Someone told me Mercury is in retrograde til the 10th and that my computer should be better after that! Heh, well, I'm no astrologer, but I'm threatening my computer there that it has 3 more days!! ;^) I think I lost all my e-mail I had saved for the last year. I have the past 3 days' still though here on my Unix account.) Talk to y'all later.... Love, Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 18:03:52 -0400 Brin wrote:
Thanks, Brin. I plan to get this one this week.
So would I. That's why I asked the questions in my first post about this subject.
We each of us have our own realities to conceive of and create. I remember when I was a little kid I used to believe that my parents were God to me, and that they knew everything. Everything they said was Gospel. Then the day came when I realized that they didn't know everything like I thought they did. And man, when I discovered that my teachers in school didn't know everything, boy were my eyes opened. I started learning then that I could maintain my own little kid reality if I didn't tell the grownups what I was doing or that I knew things that they didn't. That way they couldn't tear down the exploratory reality what I was trying so hard to create for myself. IMHO authority and hierarchy exist to serve the individual, and to be responsible to the individual, not to define his or her limitations, and certainly not to be served by the individual. (Am I an anarchist or what?) :>)#
I perceive this tendency in the general public, to accept external authority as greater and more correct than their own self-authority, without questioning whether or not it "feels" right to their own inner knowing. I also know that a lot of this is due to some kind of fear of retribution promulgated by the supposed authority. However, I sense that most of the folks whose posts I've read on this list are very discerning folks, and tend to question just about everything, (especially authority) and still... and still... are able to jump for joy at being given a new piece of pertinent information, or an idea, or thought to play with. I know I am very much like this. and sometimes it helps to have a little jumping off point to start from. This is one of the things about this list that I really love. The feeling of agape and, at the same time, a strong independence and willingness to check out and explore where a new path may personally lead. I can sense, already, the Michaels getting ready for a few fairly long posts regarding the higher centers. This will take a few days for me to complete. I'm looking forward to it, but not for another day or two yet. So, folks, let's hear what you all understand about the higher centers, especially "your own" higher centers. Love to all from :>)# Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 18:25:43 -0400 javex wrote:
Dear Melissa. I really enjoy your posts. To me you communicate very well. Your posts don't sound or feel "simple" to me. Keep them coming, if you don't mind. I like them very much. Thanks, and Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 19:01:11 -0400 Lori Tostado wrote: > [clipped]
This is interesting. I've always just looked upon the Instinctive as something that's just there 'cause I didn't know what to do with it. > [clipped] per Kenneth:
Per Kenneth: > [clipped]
Suggestions from a computer person: 1) Threats do not work with computers any more than they work with Spirit. Your computer needs healing, not threats. It really wants to help you. 2) Tell your computer that you're going to ask your higher self too help you resolve the conflicts and disfunctions between you and it. 3) Ask it to forgive you for the threats and non-love that you have subjected it to. 4) Forgive it for whatever damage you perceive that it has done to you. 5) Ask you Higher Self to help you and your computer to resolve and heal all conflicts and disfunctions. 6) Know that all of this is done, and that the universe is unfolding as it should. God Bless You and Your Computer, Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 19:34:52 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-09-07 13:46:30 EDT Kenneth Broom writes:
To Ken and the "Michael" throng: :-) In my opinion, music and the other art forms are the vehicles that help us explore our true essence, or ALL That Is. I believe musical artists are essentially spokespersons of All That Is, and that they are responsible for translating "truth" into a language we all can understand, or at the very least, relate to. I know I have felt overwhelming feelings of elation and awe when I have either listened to music, or performed in a symphony orchestra or good jazz combo. The physical manifestations, such as overwhelming feelings of power and joy, tear ducts flowing, a shortness of breath, and intense but soothing chills, are only the tip of the iceberg of an overall experience that I think cannot be adequately described: for how does one give proper description to a phenomena that is certainly beyond the physical? Because of the great formal architecture and sometimes stunning thematic inventiveness, to the sheer levels of raw emotional fervor conveyed through sound, I believe music allows access to all the higher centers, if one is truly sensitive and open to the experience. Dave :-) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 19:54:41 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-09-07 19:02:02 EDT, Kenneth Broom writes:
In my experiences, sex has usually revolved around my feelings of wanting to give rather than receive, so I think I have effectively negated any higher center access through this endeavor, but that's my own personal idiosnycracy; however, you shouldn't feel that a lack of commonality of sexual encounters with your partner is a downside, as we all gain access using our own personal methods. For me it's music and sometimes poetry and literature, and for your partner it might be something else; though, I can also relate to Lori's story because I've always been an astronomy enthusiast. Of course, I don't think anyone can look at the incredible beauty of the heavens without feeling a sense of awe. Now I have a fascination with that blue star, Sirius. Any cultures from that star system? Though, I have an equal sense of wonder about the Pleides nebula and the beautiful glowing patch that represents the Andromeda galaxy. Oh, well....:-) Dave Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:00:37 -0700 Hi everyone, Since Ken chose to share my personal letter to him with everyone, I would like to share a bit of what I'm thinking and feeling directly, because it's a somewhat sensitive issue, but one I feel strongly about. (As an artist, perhaps especially, I feel the care and intent of what I'm sharing comes through better when it's shared in it's original state, so people can get a sense of the flow and the feeling and hope behind the sharing.) Others have already touched on some of these issues, so maybe many feel some or much of this as well. Really what I'm wanting us to look at is the nature of our relationship to channeling. The information that has come to us through channeling michael has been so helpful and meaningful to me. It really gave me a context to understand so much that seems out of kilter in this world. Why I felt so out of step as an old soul in a world that is mostly young leaning toward mature. How each soul age has different goals and sensibilities. What causes sometimes the most basic misunderstandings between people. ( A baby soul warrior talking to an old soul artisan where so little of the communication of each can reach it's goal of actually sharing understandable information with one another, much less reaching any real communion.) I am grateful in every way for finding this information, for the continued insights it gives to me about the world and my relationship to it. Channeling is everywhere. What makes a good channel or a professional channel? Michael has come through many people. What information is truly michael and what is something else? As part of the Tao, of all that is, we all have the ability to know so much, to sense, to intuit. That sharing can be so powerful, so meaningful, so transformative. We have too little been encouraged to trust our own knowing, to believe our own perceptions, to share those insights in a way where they can be of their greatest use, for ourselves and others. Many of those I've seen wanting to become michael channels or doing spontaneous channeling that they attribute to michael, enjoy the way people give their attention and focus to them. Would people do the same if they said hey gather around, I want to share some of my own knowing. Maybe, if it has a ring of truth. If it touches hearts and minds and souls. Maybe our attention should always be earned in a sense, to see if what is shared, whether by intuiting or channeling or fine intellect or sensitive heart, resonates with us. Too often when someone steps in and says ok I'm going to channel here, it seems like somehow that is the last word. Can we just say, boy that sounds really off, like a lot of nonsense to me, without it being rude? And yet as channeling, it still does seem to carry more weight than just an opinion. I really appreciate those times when there is a sincere offering of look this is what came through me, how does this feel to people, some of it may be on, some off. Does it resonate, does it serve? And not just hearing what we may want to hear sometimes. Truth and indulgence have very different feelings. What kind of checks and balances are there here beyond our own hearts and our own knowing? Beyond that, I would love to see the space and encouragement for people to share of their own knowing. I would like us to remember who we are, all of us, and what we are capable of. Yes, michael's information came through channeling. But I somehow doubt michael ever meant for us to become dependent on channelers or anything outside of ourselves to know. It was a way, a way to get it started, a way to get the information out. It's a way with strengths and weaknesses, that we can be aware of and openly acknowledge. All the michael information stresses self-validation. Coming from that place of self-awareness, a lot of the potential pitfalls of this information, simply melt away. The higher centers, how to reach them, what they feels like, how they impact and transform us is a really wonderful topic for us to share about. And truly, there is so much good information through michael to explore and share. There are definitely times when channeling sincerely brings through good information, no doubt about that for me. And there's a lot to wade through that is personality, opinion, experimentation, or sometimes harmless restatement of things we all know to be true. Just not necessarily michael. I encourage everyone to explore their own inner relationship, both to michael (because if you're a student and put some time and focus in it, it's likely you'll feel some guidance) and to your own ability to simply know, to deeply feel and intuit information about every aspect of our lives. And to turn those abilities we all possess to the discussion, exploration, validation of the michael material for this list and how it can touch our lives in ways that get us out of stuck places and into greater joy and sharing. Best to all, Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 22:30:02 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-09-07 16:15:03 EDT, Lori writes:
However, I think I'll shoot myself when sex becomes as repetitive as
driving. ;-p Dave Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 22:22:09 -0500 Bienvenida Gloria. We seem to have some things in common - I'm Cuban born and have also lived in New York many years (upper West Side, and then in Inwood - around 207th St., just south of Yonkers). I was born on March 17, 1951 - only days apart from you. I too have had a long road to my spiritual work, and the ambivalence of it leads me to think I'm 2nd level old - slave/server, I believe. I'm very sorry to see about the harshness in your life that came through your Cuban father. The material world is such a can or worms sometimes. I am astounded at the amount of chaos and rough behavior and emotions that pervades so many households. Others are full of misunderstanding and alienation - that was more my situation. I've been away from the list for a week or two, very busy, and can't linger much now, but I wanted to say hi to you - and to everyone else reading this. Blessings - Aida. (PS I now live in St. Louis, MO) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 00:14:51 -0400 (EDT) 25 THINGS TO DO BESIDES ARGUING ABOUT OVERLEAVES Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 00:38:04 -0400 (EDT) This is what I am getting from Michael now on this. I was so saddened by the loss of this stunning woman seemingly just beginning her independent life that it took a while to pull these pieces together and get some feeling of setteledness with this. Princess Diana's Life Task and (untimely?) Death Whew, where to begin here? Princess Diana was a 4th level Mature Priest with a 2nd mature Server et, Charles, a huge karma to complete in public and private with him and an inspired life task (oh those priests, making the most of difficult situations) of bringing the repressed, stiff-upper-lipped British into full expression of mature soul consciousness. (Joya comment: Have you ever tried making your upper lip stiff?? Feels sour and diligently shut down. Imagine a whole life of it! But I'm a sage, California raised at that.) Britain obtained a mature soul majority some time after WW II, but had failed to heal or transform itself emotionally because of the longtime cultural bias against self-expression, not to mention self-indulgence, spontaneity, creativity etc. People were mature, but still imprinted into the same old rigid boxes and not vigorously questioning these limitations. So life task: bring her country into full expression of its soul age. Mission accomplished, most clearly, vividly seen with her death. Since through karma with Charles she was going to be rejected by him and the royals, her life task of emotional closet-cleaning in Britain began in an impactful place, a central place, Buckingham Palace. She had a hidden-revealed karmic monad with Queen Elizabeth and as Diana showed the world how rigid, non-compassionate, and even downright mean the royals were, people began shining light into their own closets, their own dark places. Where did they need to break their own mean habits, their non-compassionate streaks? Or, where did they need to break their own shackles, to find themselves worthy of self-worth? Diana made folks feel that courage and honesty might make them winners just like her. Pushed again and again to go public with private secrets, Diana with her shaky but appealing vulnerability and her clear courage to face down her demons, ambled into Muse position for millions in the world. A Muse position person often stands for some kind of freedom (many times for freeing sexual energies as it did in recent Muse icons Jimmy Dean, Elvis Presley, Marilyn Monroe and Rajneesh). In Diana, people saw that they yearned for a new kind of honesty, sweetness, beauty, strength and usefulness in their own lives. The inspiration was to break the old, limiting structures and go for life! It is a shock to human instinctive centers when anyone dies, especially someone dying young and even more especially shocking is someone dying young who was such a bright light. This shock happens whether it is old age or young age death, or a karmic death or not; death brings the reality of your own mortality to the surface, but the shock is always worse when fresh karma being formed. Everything feels much more raw then. One reason Diana's death has so intrigued millions is that it is a
complicated puzzle, a mystery, a confusing mixture of completed karma and
newly-formed karma all mixed with the Priest's proclivity for making a big
splashy exit to a short life to make people examine what they want in their
own lives. The completion of her karma with Charles required her sudden
death in a way that would greatly effect him and would keep her in the
public notice. Her earlier suicide attempts were, so-to-speak, premature
since she wasn't well enough known (and furthermore there was still many
more rounds to go through with Charles). So this completion with Charles
dovetailed spectacularly with the glorious completion of her life task: Make
Brits proud to own their feeling natures. Diana and her son Harry also were
completing a karma that mandated her exit at about this age from his life. But as a complication, fresh karma has now been formed between Diana and Dodi Fayed and the driver, the bodyguard and paparazzi and a manager of the hotel who knew the driver had been drinking. But when a scenario like that starts playing itself out, if there is any essence agreement at all, people tend to fall into line. There gets to be a sense of hypnosis, inevitability. If not they resist, get conscious - put on a seat belt, tell the driver to slow down, decide to stay at the hotel etc. For Diana's essence, once this scenario showed itself, it was clear that it worked on many levels and off she went. Early death always reminds people to look at their lives to see what changes might be needed. Diana found power to use when she needed it, yet filled her life with inspiration and good intent. She is a beautiful reminder to fill all lives courageously with love. Joya Pope Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 01:05:41 -0400 (EDT) Gay asks:
Gay the only way this makes sense to me is through some little phrase that sits in the back of my mind - a bit dimly I am afraid. But, it was from JP/Michael and something like when you are challenging yourself enough and on the edge of terror, then you are in a good place to grow. Seems like she meant the terror of your own personal challenges ( Like me calling chain bookstore headquarters to sell Emerald Wave's books) not at all what we would normally call terrifying-rapist in the night, car crashing into our living room, earthquakes or Cathy shopping for her summer bathing suit in the funny papers. We surely grow a lot from continuing to deeply challenge ourselves, but I think we old souls also grow from puttering around, meditating, spiritual disciplines, raising children, travel, therapy, past-life recall and so on. So ultimately, I am not sure what the Handbook's point is here. Hugs,
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