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Michael Chat with
Nancy Gordon


Opening Comments

<NancyG> Gather up your selves, now, and begin to center for tonight's work. Have a glass of water handy. Alcohol will only make you more dehydrated, so make it water or juice. Bring your thoughts to the work at hand. We are gathered here to experience the joy of each other of the Michael energy. Michael, are we ready?

<NancyG/MICHAEL> We are here. We welcome you all and we are especially interested in working with you tonight on this topic.

There is some distance between cup and lip, so to speak, here. The distance is between the decisions/choices made while in the comparative ease of the astral and the actual experience of the life as chosen. This is always a knotty problem, or can be a problem. For some, the choices are consonant with the life as planned. These overleaves are well matched to the objective or life task of the fragment and for the most part things go fairly well.

For those who experience a life of difficulty, whether physical malfunctioning of the body, or deformities of mind, things will appear to be much more out of balance. This is a perception, we must tell you, of the personality. When choices are made before incarnation regarding life task and the tools that will support that decision, the human personality is not consulted. These decisions are between Essence and the soul involved. There is much thought given to the kind of life, the overleaves necessary to further the evolution of the soul, and the elements of the life that will affect the disposition of the task. However, and we should make that HOWEVER, there are these slips we mentioned in the beginning. For instance, soul age has a great deal to do with the deliberation that goes on when the decisions are made. Just as you may consult a financial advisor about your retirement nest egg, so a soul may consult the available advisors regarding these choices. And the older the soul, the more attention it pays to the advice. That leaves a very wide margin for error, as you can see. The younger the soul, the greater the urge to reincarnate as quickly as possible, and not enough attention may be paid to the advice available. This can result in the selection of abrasive or difficult overleaves, parents, culture, and so forth.

Now, and this is a very important point, even difficult or abrasive choices WILL RESULT IN LESSONS WHICH CAN FORWARD THE SOUL ON ITS JOURNEY TOWARD AGAPE! Nothing is lost. It may be harder than intended, but nothing is lost. One may ask: Is it always the younger souls who make these 'mistakes' in selection? Just as there are no wasted lives, there are no 'mistakes' and no life that cannot be lived for the contribution it makes to the experience of creation. And no, it is not only the younger souls who find themselves in lives that seem miserable, painful, unhappy, or otherwise unsuccessful. These judgments are always from the personality perspective. From Essence's perspective, the life may be going quite according to plan.

What if a fragment finds itself in a body with no prospect of reaching adulthood. Is that a 'mistake' of judgment,. choice? Perhaps. And then again perhaps not. When you experience sorrow, pain, the loss of any kind, you think that this is a sign that you are not living according to your plan for this life. Think of it, however, from the other point of view. Perhaps you are living exactly what you did plan (with the help of your guides and in the energy of Essence). It is a distortion of some religious and spiritual teachings that any life that contains less than success on all fronts is at odds with itself. This is not part of the truth that we understand. You often experience physical failures and wonder how to cure them. This is quite in order and we remember our own efforts in this respect. But when everything that can be done has been done, it may be that you have chosen to experience this degree of physical handicap for the lessons that can be learned from it.

We are not suggesting a Polly Anna ish "All clouds have a silver lining" sort of attitude. We do remind you that the physical plane is one of pits and thorns and every kind of hurt. Not one of you will get through your cycle of lives unscathed. Some lives will be easier, from the human perspective, than others will be. But over all, the number of wealthy, physically fit, naturally successful lives will be less than the number which present ordeals to endure, overcome, live with, or fail to live with.

Why would any soul willingly choose a deformed body or mind to live with for a lifetime? To patch a place in the mosaic of the physical plane existence that is missing. "I have never lost a leg in a lifetime before. I will lose one this time in a mill accident when I am 17 and will live the rest of my life without it. This will be my first experience of this kind of handicap." Or: "I have been seriously depressed for several lifetimes in a row recently. I think I have begun to understand this experience of the physical plane and this lifetime I will apply what I have learned and find my way out of depression as a new experience."  Or: "My experience of greed is almost nonexistent. Therefore I will choose greed as this lifetime's Chief Feature in order to have the experience of its ramifications."

Do you see how these choices are thought of in the pre-incarnation situation? There is no concept of how these choices will interfere with The Good Life. Only how they will provide the tools for the evolution of the soul.

Is every 'bad' thing that seems to be happening to an individual fragment a pre-planned event in the life? No. There is still such a thing as choice, even on the physical plane. Choices that result in 'bad' situations are made every day in your lives. Essence assists in the overall direction of an incarnation, but the details are left to be worked out by the fragment itself, and since 'God is in the details' and the fragment plays 'god' here, things can go awry, sometimes very seriously.

What, then, is a soul intent on applying the teachings we offer to do? The living of a life, experiencing everything that it has to offer, balancing the good and the not so good, whether pain or poverty or rejection (even if Rejection isn't one of the overleaves) or any other part of life that is thought by the personality to be a failure that is the work of the fragment. Older souls tend to understand this more readily than do younger souls, but the understanding can be acquired no matter what the soul age. Any physical plane misery can be a challenge either to be overcome or to be endured. The selection of overleaves, etc., will determine which is most likely for a given fragment.

The application of one's energies toward understanding this lesson is one of the major ones of being a creature on the physical plane. No where else in creation will these experiences be possible. We are sorry if this seems distressing news. It is, however, the truth as wholly as we can convey it. And you have our sympathy. We understand how difficult many lives are because we have experienced every one of the possibilities that you are faced with. With this in mind, we now suggest that you ask your questions.

<DaveGregg> Sam, you have the first question...

Q & A

<SamL> It seems to me that not even 1 out of 1000 lives are worth the trouble  the possibilities available are not there for most people to choose a good life. That is my question.

<NancyG/MICHAEL> This seems to us to be a statement. (smile) This statement is one that is often made and if not made, then thought of by a great many people. What is missing here is the understanding that such a judgment is made from the human personality and not from the point of view of the evolution of the soul.

<SamL> It is a statement but alternately my view of the purpose of life is completely incorrect, but the result is the same.

<NancyG/MICHAEL> We have tried to describe the chasm between what is thought of as a 'good life' may not offer much in the way of evolution toward agape. It is unfortunately true that most lessons that are learned on the physical plane are learned from pain and other sorrows. Lessons can be learned from joy/bliss, but human beings tend not to think in these terms.

<SamL> If the choices are painful then how can they be learned from joy/bliss  that is the chasm of your description?

<NancyG/MICHAEL> The misery of an unhappy childhood may be chosen to bring forth elements of the soul that would not be possible had everything been sweetness and light. There is the difference between attitude that is the chasm. There were prisoners in concentration camps during your WWII who never lost sight of the joy of life. They were not glossing over the horrors of their existence, but they were allowing their sense of the spirit to prevail over the personality that could only see the degradation and fear. Remember, all senses of the physical plane are grounded either in fear or love. To center oneself on the misery of life is to reject the possibility of knowing the love that is present.

<DaveGregg> Ann, you're next...

<annh> I would like to know about intersexed or hermaphrodite lifetimes. I had a (as far as I know validated) past life in which I was physically a hermaphrodite and in that case it seemed karmic. (I don't think it's is always karmic) The level of self-hatred in that life was overwhelming and even seemed to bleed through into this life for a time. Why did I--or do we--choose intersexed lifetimes?

<NancyG/MICHAEL> This kind of existence is another experience. You may think that this is an easy explanation, one that does not attend to the real reason behind such a choice. But it can be simply that this is a life that has not yet been lived. The human personality then takes over and because there was such a cultural revulsion against this kind of body, the fragment experiencing this life felt the self-hatred that was projected toward it from the society.

<annh> What about the level of self-hatred?

<NancyG/MICHAEL> The two are in conflict: to experience something for the sake of something new, and the reaction of those among whom the soul had to live. The way that the soul deals with the reaction is on a different scale than the decision to choose the life to begin with. This is the point we made earlier: decisions made before incarnating often do not take into consideration the actual situation that the incarnating soul is going to find itself in on the physical plane. Working through this dichotomy is part of being human.

<annh> thank you.
<DaveGregg> Kathryn, you're next...

<Kathryn41> I have long known - even before it manifested - that my diabetes was a pre-planned choice and have admired essence on how well it has orchestrated things. I have been told the reason was to help me keep grounded in the present while working on the planned focus of regaining/recalling/processing past life memories and seeing how they interrelate with essence' growth. A quick question . . . is this valid?

<NancyG/MICHAEL> The diabetes was chosen, that is true. It was an experience which it was thought would slow the personality down so that attention could be paid to growth along the lines suggested: time for the work of the spirit. If this body were less limited, the probability is that it would be able to be involved in much more strenuous endeavors. Therefore, we would say that yes, this is a valid understanding.

<Kathryn41> Thank you.
<DaveGregg> Elo, you're next...

<Elo-Maria> If something traumatic happens with a person or when person is unhappy and sad for whatever reason how essence sees it at the same time does it feel any compassion or sees it just as valuable lesson? And if I try to contact with my Essence consciously at these hard times, what could change?

<NancyG/MICHAEL> Essence is wholly compassionate towards you and is supportive of your life in a general way. At the same time, Essence always sees without the veil of Maya through which all human being must operate. Therefore Essence can be objective, which means compassion but not interference. Essence is not going to alter a life plan because the fragment living it is unhappy with the choices. Those who can offer assistance through hard times are your guides. Essence knows the plan, knows the hardships that the soul is experiencing, but leaves the detail of commiseration and even assistance to them. Others who will respond when asked are your entity mates and your cadence mates who are discarnate.

<Elo-Maria> Thank you!
<DaveGregg> Geraldine, you're next...

<Geraldine> Unfortunately, this question may be confusing and too compact for a larger subject. I'd like a clarification on the use of the word "soul." Earlier, you used the term soul and indicated that it's created prior to overleaves, etc. Then, you used the term reincarnation as those this soul were one constant. Additionally, you've previously stated that Essence is running multiple parallel lives (with different grand cycles). Is Essence fragmented into separate souls that we in turn fragment from for individual personalities or incarnations? Does Essence have more than one soul?

<NancyG/MICHAEL> The word soul represents the spark of the Tao that is the individual. It can be said to be a projection of Essence, just as Essence is a projection of the Tao, but that is only a sorry attempt to describe what is in truth difficult to put into words. Souls are individual through the physical cycle of lives and even through the reuniting with cadence and entity. We are a reunited entity but even we who are from the mid-causal plane still have a semblance of individuality. As we move into the higher causal plane we will lose that individuality and above the causal it is not possible to speak of individuals at all.

The soul or fragment who is incarnating assumes a personality with each incarnation. That personality does not survive the incarnation. When the body dies, the personality dies with it. There is, however, an energy from the personality, the True Personality, which is carried over in the soul and is part of the mosaic that is being established, the tapestry of lives that is being woven, for each of you. Does this answer this question?

<Geraldine> Only somewhat :) just more info to chew on :)
<DaveGregg> Ocean, you're next...

<ocean-cheryl> I had polio when I was 13 months old, and now live with the mobility problems of post-polio. I do feel it was my choice, and it has presented me, and those around me, with lots of opportunities for experience and growth that I would never have had without it. All in all, I am happy with my choice, and I hope Essence feels I am doing well with it.... my question is: am I doing all I can to maximize the experience, while I have chosen to have it? Is there something I can learn or teach from this that I have not yet discovered?

<NancyG/MICHAEL> The limited experience of the physical plane that this soul has chosen has been part of the plan from the beginning, as has been stated. We would say that with the attitude expressed there is no need to look for elements that could be uncovered for greater growth. The lessons are well established and have brought with them their own energy. We commend this fragment for her understanding and her application of the teachings as she has experienced them.

<ocean-cheryl> thank you!
<DaveGregg> Moonsinger, you're next...

<MoonSinger> I'd appreciate a glimpse of how I'm doing with "what is" from my Essence's (or Michael's) perspective. It seems my life has been (from personality's perspective) quite difficult. Is this what was intended? Is this a usual reaction to a life with a goal of Growth?

<NancyG/MICHAEL> Growth is a difficult goal for just about every fragment on the physical plane. The sense of not being able to let well enough alone is part of what makes it difficult. And we sympathize with that! Ordinarily we would say that Growth brings its own boulders. There is no need to go looking for them. However, in this case, we counsel the following: In an effort to experience what seems like a another difficulty disguised as growth, this fragment has undertaken more than was planned. We would say has bitten off more than she can chew.

<MoonSinger> Indeed. That's how it feels.

<NancyG/MICHAEL> There is always a balance to be attained, even with a goal of growth. For this soul, the balance is off, leading to a sense of disequilibrium. How then to deal with this.

In every possibility that presents itself, we suggest that the low road be considered rather than the high road. In other words, examine each fork in the road, each selection of activity, even each friendship, for the least troublesome, not the most interesting or entertaining. This is one way to achieve some necessary balance.

<MoonSinger> Thank you
<DaveGregg> Akira, you're next...

<akira> I know life on the physical plane is a co-creation of essence and personality. In a seemingly miserable situation, will essence always try to shed light on the personality so it can experience the situation in joy/bliss, or there will be times that essence will deliberately create more obstacle to postpone the "awakening" of the personality so that miserable experience can be explored more fully?...

<NancyG/MICHAEL> Essence does not choose, the fragment chooses, always. Essence assists in the general plan of a life, but we repeat, leaves the details up to the fragment and the guides who are aiding the choices. Essence has only one interest, and that is to oversee the cycle of lives so that the experience of the physical plane will contribute to the knowledge of creation. Essence is part of each soul, and yet is separate from it. As for 'deliberately creating obstacles', this is not the province of Essence. Remember, all is choice. If Essence interfered with the choices of a fragment there would be no free will.

<akira> Can I re-ask my question changing the word essence to fragment?

<NancyG/MICHAEL> The experiencing of any difficult life always offers enough to explore without Essence having to think up ways to accomplish the original plan. Actually, Essence only sets the plan in motion. Should regularly deviate from their original plan with impunity. The lessons that are learned may be entirely different than the ones thought to be the point, but a lesson is a lesson. It does not matter if a particular one is postponed to another life. Every lesson is valid just as all choices are valid.

<akira> Will there be times that the "fragement(soul)" will deliberately create more obstacles to postpone the "awakening" of the personality?

<NancyG/MICHAEL> The soul and the personality combine to make the person for each lifetime. Awakening, if we understand the term as presented, means knowing the how and why of a situation. Being left in the dark, so to speak, about a given 'miserable experience' is not conducive to evolution. And so, we would say No, it is not in the teachings that a soul will try to keep itself from knowing why it is experiencing what it is experiencing for the sake of experiencing it 'more fully'.

<akira> Ok, Thank you very much.
<DaveGregg> Littlestar, you're next...

<littlestar> I am about to reconnect with a man from Israel I met a few months ago and the "energy" we have been exchanging has been amazing. I would like to know if this is pre-lifetime planned or recent decision and what our "purpose" this lifetime is. How do we know when events are ones we have chosen from before incarnating?

<NancyG/MICHAEL> In general, fragments do not know which events are pre-planned and which are ad hoc for a lifetime. And also in general, it does not matter to the life plan. Just as one may make a friend who is not an agreement, so one may take a job that is not part of pre-incarnation decisions, or one may step off a curb and suddenly be terminated when the life plan was to live to be 92.

<DaveGregg> Laine, you're next...

<laine> Before extremely "bad" or extremely "good" things happen, I often have very strong and powerful premonitions. What is and what is the purpose of a premonition?

<NancyG/MICHAEL> When a soul/fragment has premonitions about events that are going to happen it usually means that it is tuned to the vibrations of the environment more closely than most are. There is no special 'purpose' for this ability, just as there is no 'purpose' to color blindness, or knowing that a storm is brewing by looking at the curl of certain leaves. It is part of the make-up of that particular personality/body/soul, that is all.

<laine> Thank you.
<DaveGregg> Laughingboi, you're next...

<laughingboi> I don't really understand why achieving the goal of agape requires so much suffering. Why wouldn't the highest form of love or the essence of the Tao encourage the improvement of conditions on the physical plane for its fragments in order for it to create a more perfect creation?

<NancyG/MICHAEL> When it is suggested that the Tao improve the conditions of the physical plane, it is supposed that the Tao is a master craftsman who operates the physical plane like one would a wind up toy. The physical plane is the result of the creatures who inhabit it. The conditions current are those that have been created by all the creatures, human and otherwise who inhabit it. Remember that the physical plane contains all of creation, not just this planet nor just human beings. And then there is the concept of what constitutes a perfect creation. These are words wrapped in Maya, uttered from the personality and not from the higher self.

Creation is perfect just as it stands. Just as each creature is perfect in each moment of its existence. To think otherwise is to miss the whole concept of creation. As each creature enters into existence on the physical plane certain elements are set in motion that would not be if that creature had not existed. The combination of all the creatures extant make the physical plane what it is. The Tao observes, experiences. It does not 'do'.

<laughingboi> Thank you.
<DaveGregg> yy2, you have the final question...

<yy2> You (michael) have helped me to heal a major depression in this lifetime eighteen years ago. Depression helped me to grow emotionally yet painful. I'm ready to let go of the pain, however, I am curious why did I choose to grow through the experience of emotional pain prior birth?

<NancyG/MICHAEL> When a fragment sets up a condition in a lifetime it is usually with the intention of resolving whatever difficulties come up within that lifetime. This resolution, however, does not always work out. The entire lesson or lessons of a particular experience may take more than one lifetime to bring itself to a conclusion. For instance, a fragment may decide to do a series of lifetimes experiencing fear in a very profound way, say through five lives. In the third lifetime the fragment decides that it has learned all that it needed to get from the three lifetimes of profound fear and dismiss the two remaining lives to other goals. For this fragment, it was necessary to finish up the interrupted lessons involved in the depression of the past. Other lessons were undertaken for several lifetimes, but there was an unfinished business to wrap up regarding that lesson. Hence, the carry over into this lifetime.

Making the decision to let go of the pain is the signal that the choice of this life to see the end of it was a good work. It is possible that choosing to do so earlier might not have presented all the elements needed to arrive at the place where the soul is now. This kind of choice is more dependent that some others on consultation on the astral between lives. The results here have been 'good' ones, the work of soul evolution. Good work.

<yy2> Thank you
<DaveGregg> That was the last question, Nancy. Do you have closing comments?

Closing Comments

<NancyG/MICHAEL> We have offered here a number of examples of how much the physical plane and the wish to advance spiritually can be in conflict when it comes to choices made before incarnation. We wish to remind you of this very important fact, one that we have repeated several time this session: Just as all choices are valid, so all lessons are valid. If a life plan goes off on a tangent, that does not mean there is a waste of a good incarnation. There will always be lessons to be learned, no matter what the situation, no matter what the objective.

Making the best of things as you see it is the goal, not slavishly adhering to the pre-incarnation plan. It is true that the more closely you follow the plan, the more likely you will accomplish what was chosen for this lifetime, but even if you deviate seriously, soul evolution will happen. It just may be more complicated or take longer. Or even, mirabili dictu, it might take less time than  the original design intended! (smiles)

Although the physical plane is heavy with fear, the more conscious you are of your place in it and the more unwilling you are to go through your life in the waking sleep, the more possible joy is no matter how physically painful it may be. Pain is a property of the body. It does not get its identity from the soul. Joy does. The next time you wish to reorganize your world into a better place, try to remember that. We send you away with this wish: That joy replace fear in your lives and make way for the truth that is the highest good. Go in peace.

<DaveGregg> Fun evening! Thank you, Michael and Nancy. :-)
<Geraldine> Once again, much food for thought :)
<Kathryn41> Wonderful information tonight, thank you Michael and Nancy'
<yy2> Thank you Nancy, Michael and Dave
<laughingboi> Thank you.
<rl2072> Thanks Michael & Nancy!
<laine> Thanks All.
<ocean-cheryl> Very interesting topic, thank you Michael, Nancy, and Dave.
<akira> Thank you. I enjoyed this topic very much.
<JohnRoth> Thank you, Michael and Nancy.
<SylviaD> Interesting as always. Thank you, Michael and Nancy.
<littlestar> This was great stuff!!!
<NancyG> You are all very welcome. My arms are about to fall off!
<annh> Thanks you Michael and Nancy.

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