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Michael Chat with
Nancy Gordon


A "Back to Basics" Night.
This themed chat focused on a Q & A
specifically related to the teachings.

Opening Comments

<Nancy> Good evening, everyone here. We are here to join you in the learning of the joys of agape. In every stage of life on the physical plane there is the flavor of joy, even in the most abject of conditions, even when there seems to be no peace or no hope. This is the veil of Maya, remember. There is always hope, and especially there is always love.

Within the framework of the life patterns you have chosen for this experience of the physical plane there is the aura of Essence surrounding every choice, every experience. Sometimes it may be very hard to discern this, very hard to see the edges of Essence like the sun behind a cloud. Holding this thought, however, is part of the energy you all have to fight back the shadows of fear. Fear is the antithesis of love. It is the second strongest element in lives on this plane. Imagine all your fears of the moment -- losses, damaged bodies, uneasiness with others -- imagine them as bundled up and captured in that storm cloud you are looking at. Then see the golden edges around the gray and purple mass of your creation, the glow of Essence. Every experience, whether you see it/know it as 'bad' or 'good' is part of your learning to deal with this plane. But you are not alone, no matter how lonely you may feel. Never are you without Essence to lend its very real presence to you.

It is unfortunate, but one of the memory losses of being in a body is the loss of knowing that Essence is present at all times. You do not have to go looking for it, nor do you have to light candles to it, nor say special words, nor go to special places. This 'togetherness' is always and everywhere. Essence is part of your arsenal of weapons to fight off Fear. Does it matter that you cannot remember what love is? Of course it does. But it matters more that you have forgotten that the very path back to agape is by way of Essence. Essence has never lost this memory. Essence is always connected to your beginning.

So how can you and your Essence communicate? By thought. Essence is even purer energy than are we. The connection we have with you is through your thought energy. Human beings, however, deal in words. That is their appropriate milieu. Without words it is hard to have thought. In fact, we would say it is impossible. You may have, do have, feelings which are hard to put words to, yes. And those feelings are sometimes more real to you than any thoughts that might arise. Imagine, then, melding feelings of need, of fear, of hopelessness, with thoughts that express those feelings and you have a way to Essence. Your Essence has power you cannot begin to fathom. Draw on it. Make it a part of your means of dealing with the fears that bind you, that burden you.
Sharing these with Essence is how you understand this connection. 'Sharing' is not really what happens, however, because Essence already knows your state. But it is the way of human fragments to see this as a connection that they initiate. That is well. It does not matter what makes the drawing as long as the contours are discernible.
Tonight we offer this for your understanding: Your guides, your guardians, your connections to Entity and Cadre, even your energetic connection to us is as the flame of a match when compared to your connection with Essence, a veritable firestorm of power, available to you for the asking. When you think about your situation, no matter how great or small, no matter how much or how little the concern is, remember the force that is there for your good, if you choose to acknowledge it.

Now we will take your questions.

<DaveGregg> Carrot, you have the first question...

Q & A

<CarrotWax> My question is about levels of soul ages. In describing them, it's often descriptive about what type of lives people live - as well as the positive and negative pole. But is there an actual curriculum?  I seem to remember on Victoria's site there was a piece on mature souls, how levels mapped to exploring various cardinalities of relationships.  But never saw anything for the old soul age.

<Nancy> If we understand your question, Matthew, we would say that Yes, there is a map of sorts for every level, and so one for the Old soul level.
In the Old level, the final one for the fragments of the physical cycle, the seven levels are similar to what has gone before, with the exception that all is now turned more inward. The first level is still concerned with the energy of the Mature cycle and its emotional character. It has finished the 7th level Mature as a pulling together all of the lessons of that level, but it has no real experience with the Old level energy as such just yet. The several lifetimes that are necessary to adjust to the new energy allow the fragment to become comfortable in its space there.

Then it comes to the second level, a time of diving into the work of the Old level but stepping back often because of its unfamiliarity. This is a dramatic, often wearying number of lives as the fragment learns to find its balance once more.

The third level is one of interior activity, weighing and measuring, putting things in perspective, ready to launch fully into the choices of the Old level.

The fourth is one of outward activity, fully into the energy of the Old soul experience, fully concerned with taking care of the lessons that are wrapping up the cycle. These experiences can include setting out to bring the knowledge of the Tao within the framework of the individual role. Even those who we characterize as those in the waking sleep feel the urge to honor truth, as nearly as they can understand it, by exploring the terrain. For those who are awake, it is a time of activity with a purpose.

The fifth level of Old is sometimes thought of as a not-quite-here kind of experience. Fragments make choices that may seem quite outlandish to others, and what is more, they do not seem to mind at all that they are perceived as strange or odd. The pull of the finish is beginning to tell on them. Spiritual elements are very strongly pursued, the matters of the physical plane become uninteresting. These fragments may find familial connections difficult, economic responsibilities even more so. Relationships are probably much less intense as the Old fragment tends to work its single-minded way towards the end.

The six level is the time of freeing itself from all karmic responsibilities. Every karma ribbon will be burned before the end of the lives in this level. This leads to this level being somewhat long for some fragments, necessitating many lives in order to meet and finish all karmic agreements. Since the physical problems of geography, age, and so forth can be a very real deterrent to two fragments meeting to conclude these matters, there is an effort between lives to come to agreements that will balance these karmas with honor on the astral.
The seventh stage of the Old level is turned toward the end. Old fragments in general find it difficult to get very concerned about such things that Mature fragments get incensed over. And those who are in the final lives of the cycle are even more distanced from these concerns. The fragment is turned in, aware of self-karmic needs, lessons relating to the individual's mastery of the physical plane. Self-awareness is the lesson here, acceptance is the goal, no matter what the chosen 'goal' has been. The lesson of Acceptance, of Agape, is the final work of the fragment on this plane. When this lesson has been fully acknowledged, the fragment is ready to cycle off.

<DaveGregg> John M, you're next...

<John_Marmaro> Thank you; regarding Essence contact...I know it is not something one can will to happen, or bring about on order, so to speak, but can Michael suggest some practices, or behaviors, which, when consciously applied, might make it more likely to occur?

<Nancy> When we say that it is unnecessary to go about connecting with Essence as though one were placating a god, we mean merely that there is no need for ritual that must be followed in a precise fashion or it will not work. This is the basis for superstition: If I walk three times around the circle with my hands held just so and say the following words backwards
. . . No, there is no ritual to connecting with Essence. However, we understand your need for some guidance in this matter and we make these suggestions:

Since you often shower, why not use a good showering to start yourself off in the frame of mind that may lead to the desired end? During the shower you might bring your intention to mind, the things you would like to 'talk over' with Essence. Then, after toweling and robing, you might sit comfortably and bring yourself into a meditative mood. If visualizations are useful to you, visualize Essence sitting across from you, in what ever guise you find attractive. Every fragment is different in this respect.
Some will like to imagine Essence as a firelight, others clothe it in human form. IT does not matter. Any form is appropriate for something that is essentially formless. Then hold conversation with your Essence. Talk over your concerns, leaving some quiet time between for Essence to respond. It does not matter if you do not 'hear' the responses. Be assured that they do happen. When you have finished your conversation, sit quietly for some moments, allowing the energy that has been created between you to become more fully a part of your own. That is one way.

It may be after some practice at this, that you can enter your dialogue with Essence while walking the dog, or resting your eyes at your desk, or in any other place where you can turn your thoughts to it. We do not recommend that you attempt Essence contact while driving your automobile. It is certainly possible, but you may find that your attention to what you are doing is less than perfect. (Smiles) No one should imagine that our suggestions concerning the shower is at all necessary, either. It is just a reasonable starting point and may help.

 <John_Marmaro> Thank you Michael and Nancy!
 <DaveGregg> Shannon, you're next...

<ShannonB> I've never really understood much about the Fifth Internal Monad. I know what is happening in the Fourth, and the Sixth and Seventh, but what is the object of going through the Fifth? What is a fragment "working on" or seeking to accomplish during that time?
<Nancy> The fifth internal monad is a summing up, a reflection on the agreements, tasks, adventures of the life chosen. Unlike the 4th internal monad, which can take years in some cases, the 5th is often a matter of weeks. It can take longer but it may be that when a fragment comes to the realization that taking stock is in order, and depending on the role and the attitude, it gets to it rather expeditiously. It is not unusual for the 5th internal monad to be undertaken at a point when all physical plane responsibilities seem to be at an end. It is also possible that there can be a number of years between this summing up and the 6th monad. For those of you who are living lives at this time, it would not be unusual for there to be 15 or 20 years or even more of life after the 5th monad is completed. In this instance, as we have said previously, a fragment enters a 'free fall' period, a time when choices can be made without concern for others.

The balance achieved during the 5th monad is one of acceptance of lessons learned and of acceptance also of agreements abrogated for whatever reason, of acknowledgement of failures and of successes, and of facing with integrity the reality that the life has been. This is the point of the monad.

 <ShannonB> thank you
 <DaveGregg> Tzm, you're next...

<tzm> My question has to do with Cycles. I haven’t seen that much written about them, but they would seem to me to be far more significant than Soul Age in giving a sense of the maturity or sophistication or “enlightened-ness” of a soul. Could you speak about the significance of the # of Previous Cycles of a fragment? (I was channeled as 7th level Young Priest but I relate much more to the Old Soul Age descriptions! I have 11 previous cycles—could that be why? Or my Priest role?)
<Nancy> Within each cycle of ensoulment there is the overarching goal of lessons to be learned, lessons that are mapped out for a whole entity and ultimately a whole cadre. We will stop with these. The role and casting that is chosen by a fragment for each cycle relates to these choices. Every role/casting combination, therefore, will know at a very basic level of its consciousness what these choices are, although none of this will usually be part of the consciousness of the individual fragment during the lives lived in the cycle.
The seven levels of soul evolution, five of them on the physical plane and two above it, are meant to provide the fragment, who is a part of cadence/entity/cadre, with a framework within which evolution will be possible. And the order of creation guarantees that evolution will be achieved. Once the whole cycle of a human life is completed the processes may be repeated to allow for a new set of experiences. Remember that not all of your cycles have been attached to this form. Other forms of creation experience lives in much different ways than you do. These experiences then become a part of the tapestry of the totality of your creation and of creation as a whole.

Therefore, it is not accurate to think of the levels as being of greater consequence than the cycles, nor of the cycles as being of greater consequence than soul levels. They are totally different dimensions of the experience of being a creature.

 <tzm> Food for thought. Thank you.
 <DaveGregg> Elo, you're next...

<Elo-Maria> I'm interested in how overleaves manifest in cetaceans. Could Michael take some particular examples, describe a cetacean with discrimination goal, idealist attitude, intellectual centering etc?

<Nancy> The overleaves are a part of creation. Every creature who is ensouled has access to the same sets of overleaves, whether he is a human being, or a cetacean, or a denizen of a planet of the center of this or any other galaxy. To describe how they are manifested is to mirror your own life. The goals, attitudes, modes, chief features are experienced in much the same way in other forms of creation as human fragments experience them.

A dolphin with the goal of discrimination, an intellectually centered idealist, would be one who probably also has chosen observation, although he might have preferred caution. Within his social circle, and dolphins are exceedingly sociable, he is likely one to whom his fellows turn for his views in any discussion. Idealists tend to see things as they should be and are quite ready to tell others what they think this ‘should be’ looks like. Discrimination will tend to be seen as the act of choosing the ideal and intellectual centering will confirm this dolphin's rational expression of his choices, as opposed to an emotion one.

Although intellectual centering is very common in your culture, among cetaceans moving center is the more common choice, for obvious reasons. The role, will of course, influence how each of the goals, attitudes, modes, and chief features are expressed in a given dolphin’s life.

<Elo-Maria> Thank you!
<DaveGregg> Diane is next.

<dianekeith> I'm having trouble putting my question into words, Dave. I guess skip me.

<DaveGregg> What's the nature of it? Maybe we could help?
<Nancy> Just type some nouns. That may help.

<dianekeith> Okay. I'm wondering if we choose to incarnate with others of certain overleaves more than other overleaves?

<Nancy> (Nancy) That is a fine question. Michael?

<Nancy> We remind the fragment Diane that overleaves are chosen in the 'time' between lives. They are the choice of the individual fragment each lifetime. The choice is not usually made with any but the individual fragment’s objectives in mind, the need to connect with those with whom there are agreements, karmic arrangements, or other connections. The choice of overleaves, rather than being of any importance, is sometimes overlooked, to the detriment of the plans being made.

What may look like a reasonable connection, say a mating agreement during the astral planning stage, will, because of the choice of overleaves by either party, become improbable if not impossible in the lifetime. Therefore, we would have to say that fragments do not usually concern themselves with the overleaf choices of others. Agreements, monads, karmas, and simple affinities are much more likely considerations.

<dianekeith> Thank you Nancy

<DaveGregg> That was the last question, Nancy. What would you like to do?
<Nancy> I would like to ask the Michaels to finish for the evening.

                                     Closing Comments

<Nancy> When the soul of any creature is cast from the Tao, it takes with it an imprint, so to speak, of its origin, a blueprint of its being a part of the Tao. By agreement, it then 'forgets' this blueprint, this memory, although the residue of it haunts the fragment for the rest of its separation from the Tao. It is this shadow memory that underpins all the experiences of all the lives that you live,  in this cycle and in every cycle of your choosing. And you do choose to cycle through creation. There are those who choose not to, who do not leave the Tao as you, and we, have.

By making this choice you follow the general pattern set by your entity/cadre and go about the business of fulfilling your part of the bargain. For every question: Why am I here? What is it I have to do? there is only one answer: Be. The rest will take care of itself. Now, we do not subscribe to the quietism that this may sound like. But too much energy is expended in the effort to 'discover' who am I and what am I supposed to be doing? You are a spark of the All That Is. You will choose to do as you have chosen to do from the beginning of your separation from IT. We say this to comfort those who worry so about their humanity. Instead of thinking that if you do not find exactly the 'right' place you are 'supposed' to be that somehow you will fail your mission, be assured, you cannot fail. Every choice you make is part of your experience of human life. Every choice you make is a good one. The outcome may not look like that to you, but rest assured, from the perspective of Essence, you have not failed. You not only cannot fail, but you will arrive at the end of each life as a spectacular success! Now, go in peace!

<DaveGregg> Thank you Nancy/Michael.
<Kathryn41> thank you Michael; thank you Nancy
<Julian97> Thank you
<Elisa17> Thank you Michael and Nancy
<JohnRoth> Thank you!
<DaveGregg> Very nice session! What did you guys think of this type of chat?
<ShannonB> Thank you, Nancy, it was a nice evening
<LaurelB> Very interesting questions! Thank you!  I liked this much better
<DianeH> Thank you, Nancy and Michael.
<LindaW> Wow that was excellent. Thanks, Nancy and Michael...Lots to ponder...
<cynzim> I like the focused chat.
<Elisa17> I enjoyed it very much. Nice focus.
<JohnRoth> I liked it.
<Kathryn41> This was very good tonight.
<DaveGregg> Good! We'll try to do more of these. The idea is to rotate this among the channels, so there will be both open sessions and focused ones.
<SamL> Thank you for channeling.
<DaveGregg> Yes, a big thanks to Nancy for filling in for Shepherd tonight!

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