Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 03:05:41 -0800
Subject: Re: Dick's Comments (1998-10/1097)
| From: ennis
| Date: Sun, 15 Mar 98 10:30:26 -0600
|
|
| I'd be interested in a bit more information about 6th level sages
| (mature). Does the word "Reserve" mean something?
Reserve is the ordinal Mode of the inspiration axis.
| That's all I know about my "classification"
but in an earlier welcome to
| me, you also said something about it (6th) being a heavy karma time.
| This I can certainly relate to!
Yes it is.(
| I'm also wondering what is meant re ETs.
The subject of ETs is a not insignificant concept in the Michael teachings,
and the related material is rather voluminous. I'll include a few quotes here(
but I suggest you get a copy of »The Journey of Your Soul Shepherd Hoodwin
and/or »The World According to Michael Joya pope for excellent information
about the Michael teachings.
Cheers,
Dick [2.1(3)/5/4.2-144=4.7.3<5.150/M5=26/IME/4.11>]
----------------------------------------------------
Dick Hein / Mountain View, California.
[--------------------<*>--------------------]
»Sixth levelfetimes are about karma. In Infant, Baby and Young
lifetimes, you are usually busier creating karmas than paying them
back. Every essence plunges in during these early phases and forms
the karmas which cause shudders when you sense, from the perspective
of later lifetimes, what took place and what troubles you caused.
Usually, once these karmas have come back in your face, you know you
would »nevert like that again, ever, because you understand all
too well what it felt like.
In Mature and Old six level lifetimes, you piece together the
experiences of the prior levels and start handling obligations
incurred along the way. This means accumulated karmic debts get
paid back through numerous, intense, nearly overfilled sixth level
lives. A person will likely have trouble after hard luck and be at
wits end from all the calamitous action coming [their] way. These
sixth level catch-up lives are a difficult and demanding group,
usually taking longer to complete than any other level. As an Old
Soul, these lives are truly the last chance for »allrmic
completions, some of which have been avoided for dozens upon dozens
of lifetimes. [WM.43]
The link of essence twins is the culmination of all intimacy, and it is the
reuniting of essence twins that is accomplished when the cadre reunites.
[M2.96]
The bond with the essence twin and with the task companion is the direct
result of [one's] position in casting... [M2.193]
It is not incorrect to say that the essence twin brings the fragment more
fully into essence and the task companion brings each fragment out of
itself. [M2.214]
---
M2 = »More Messages From MichaelChelsea Quinn Yarbro (OOP)
WM = »The World According to MichaelJoya Pope
In marking quoted material, the marks »textpresent italics. They will
usually surround those portions containing the lesser amount of material.
Occasionally they will demark italicized material within the quote.
The following table shows nominal markings for each title -
M2 = Michael »Otherr> WM = Author
===
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 03:06:56 -0800
Subject: Re: Eccentric level/Sages/Growth (1998-10/1101)
| From: Huttinger
| Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 10:48:10 -0800
|
| > I get very angry when others are mistreated or abused, or receive
| > unjust punishment for errors they make. I know it's a waste of my
| > energy, but the compulsion is so strong it's hard to deal with.
|
| I also don't like to see others abused. I find myself wondering what
| agreements they made. Did they sign up for the abuse or is it an
| accident of the earth plane?
I don't see how willful conduct can be considered an accident. Perhaps a
poor choice by the abused, or an unexpected turn of events in the life. More
likely, however, is a karmic connection: if an early cycle, karma creation; if
a later cycle, payback. It could instead be monadal (recall that one of the
external monads is Attacker/Victim).
| Even if the abuse was agreed to before
incarnating it doesn't make it
| much easier to see.
No argument there.
| I believe Michael said to a group once that
"nothing is wasted". They
| were referring to experiences on the physical plane at the time.
This is seen many times in the early books, and the reference is correct.
I'll include one reference of many.(
| If I remind myself that people are energy
and the body is a costume it
| makes it a little easier to deal with the hard knocks of physical plane
| life but not much easier. I remember that Michael said that on a scale
| of one to ten where ten is the most aggressive planet to live on that
| the earth is an eight. What was my essence thinking? Was he/she out of
| its mind? Where is the easy planet?
Chances are you, as many of us, have "been around the track a few times",
meaning this is not your first major cycle. You probably have already done the
easy planets, and your essence wanted the stimulation of Earth.
| My wife and I joke that we got plastered one
night on the astral plane
| and some joker put us on the bus for earth just for fun. Ha!
Could happen!
| A non Michael channel told me that you can
learn in one lifetime on
| earth what it would take millions of years to learn on an easy planet.
Hmmm.
Cheers,
Dick [2.1(3)/5/4.2-144=4.7.3<5.150/M5=26/IME/4.11>]
----------------------------------------------------
Dick Hein / Mountain View, California.
[--------------------<*>--------------------]
What is chosen as the course of a lifetime is simply that: choice. All
previous plans can be abdicated or abandoned, every task and insight
ignored, and still the life will not be wasted. There is no way any fragment
can waste a life. As soon as you take your first breath and ensoul the body,
there is experience and all experience--and we emphasize »alls true and
valid. You may waste resources and opportunities, but you cannot waste a
life, for you cannot avoid choice and the ramification of choice. As we have
said many times before and we repeat yet again, all is chosen. To do nothing
is a choice. There is no way you cannot choose. [M3.22]
---
M3 = »Michael's PeopleChelsea Quinn Yarbro (OOP)
In marking quoted material, the marks »textpresent italics. They will
usually surround those portions containing the lesser amount of material.
Occasionally they will demark italicized material within the quote.
The following table shows nominal markings for each title -
M3 = Michael »Otherp>
===
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 06:08:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Essence Persona
Gloria Constantin wrote:
> I've gotten the impression that essence,
sans incarnation, has
> personality in its own right. The varied and motley screens of one's
> enneagram number, one's psychological archetype/s, one's astrological
> delineations, and even essence role when one is wearing a body does not
> exist for essence at some point in its travels. Yet essence is still
> quite distinctive. Mike H. claims to have a curmudgeon aspect to his
> essence, and a good friend of my was told by Michael that her essence
> tends to be bossy.
I've found that my essence, along with my entity mates, have a very low
tolerance for self-pity. As long as I am truly trying to follow my life path
(successfully or otherwise) they are always easily available to me. But if I
choose to voluntarily go where Essence would prefer I not go, then they tend
to "not" make their energies available to me, even though they don't try to
stop me either.
> Is this because essence is still fragmented
on its way to the Tao, (or
> on its way to another life) retaining the influence and impact of its
> just completed life, and does it retain the influence of its
> hundreds/thousands of personalities from previous cycles despite
> reabsorption by the Tao before re-emanating? Or is there some core
> personality that existed within itself prior to the first fragmentation
> that essence carries (or is) eternally?
My experience of my essence is very similar to my experience of my whole
entity. There's a personality of sorts, but not at all like what we call
"human" personality. In my perceptions of other essences and completed
entities their "personalities" seem to be more a reflection of their component
Roles in Essence, alone, and not involving the other layers of the overleaves.
I "get" that the personality of the TAO is the same... a reflection of "all"
of its nearly infinite component Roles in Essence.
> Does the Tao have a personality?
IMHE: The TAO does not have "a" personality, it has "all" of the
personalities that exist in all of the fragments that exist.
> Perhaps these questions are too
reductionistic and miss the point. What's the point?
Da Point... Da Point... Depends on Da Point of View... don'cha think...?
The Happy Scholar sez "If you get the point then you're missing the point."
:>)#
--
Peace and Light to You and Yours,
Kenneth Broom, (The Happy Scholar)
Columbia, Maryland, USA
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
7th Level Old Scholar, Observation, Acceptance, Idealist,
Emotional Part of Intellectual Center, Impatience. (INFP)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:53:42 +0800
Subject: Re: Eccentric level/Sages/Growth
At 08:31 AM 3/15/98 -0000, Diane L. Smith wrote:
> Kathy,
>
> Hmmmmm that made this Sage think..... yes... Jack of all Trades... Master
of
> None. Sigh. I am in Passion mode with Growth and this is most painful.
Who just described me? :-) I'm Sage, Growth, with Reserve mode, but I am
riding on that fine line of "all trades/master of none". Which confused me in
the way that I thought I was a Scholar -- Reserve Mode tends to inhibit, and
then this "all trades" business makes me feel like I am assimilating like a
Scholar (yes I like reading, too). After channeling my overleaves, I was shown
as "Artisan/Sage" (ambiguous) and I verify that I am more a Sage than an
Artisan, or a Scholar. The Reserve Mode keeps me from Stage Center (and
obscure this unique Sage quality), though. My validation comes from my
'cardinal' perspective (nah I'm not "exalted"... ) of a Sage, or Priest...
except that I will trip myself up if I start preaching spiritual teachings...
> can never ever seem satisfied with what I am
doing. My blasted mind keeps
> trying to see the next... the future... even while I'm in the middle of
the
> current spurt of learning. I seem to let all that mish-mash swirl around
> and then I find myself in the negative pole of growth..... Mass
> confusion!!!!!!!!
I think there might be influence of "Impatience" in there somewhere. At
least it feels that way where negative pole is concerned. :-)
> spiritualist attitude that I thankfully
have. I at least have a positive
> outlook which fills my being with wonderful feelings and thoughts. I just
> have to learn to stop and wait instead of jumping through hoops (oh this
> moving centered sooooo wants to...<s>) Some of us Sages just don't want to
> grow up (is that why we relate to Peter Pan) and find life more
interesting
> if we could just play all the time...<giggle>
Yeah... well, this Sage has Reserve Mode and Pragmatic attitude. Don't they
just take the fun out? :-)
Regards.
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:00:14 EST
Subject: Growth
Thank you, Lori, for your comment about the goal of growth being a
concentrated experience of what we're all doing anyway. That makes sense to
me.
There are various stages in a growth cycle. The first, which we most
associate with the goal of growth, is the taking on of new experiences that
challenge and stimulate us. Then we need to make sense of and integrate what
we've experienced (the goal of reevaluation focuses on that). After that, we
need to stabilize ourselves before taking on new stuff again (the goal of
flow/stagnation comes to mind). Of course, the other goals also contribute to
our overall growth: learning to say yes (acceptance) and no (discrimination);
learning to lead (dominance) and follow (submission). (Of course, these goals
entail much more than just those things.) Maybe these goals could be seen as
refinements or subsets of growth.
My goal is acceptance, and I find much less motivation to be busy (in the
sense of adding new things to my life) than those with growth. People in
growth seem to always be taking a new class, traveling to a new place, trying
a new restaurant, meeting new people, reading a new book, developing a new
skill, and in general seeking new challenges. No wonder they occasionally get
overstimulated and hence, confused. In acceptance, I am much more motivated to
make peace with how things are, to feel good about life, to be in balance. In
growth, one is always a bit out of balance, because one is moving forward.
Best,
Shepherd
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:31:16 EST
Subject: Re: Assimilation
In a message dated 98-03-14 08:44:18 EST, you write:
<< I wrote:
I've always seemed to turn information into feelings and colors and
sound and it all becomes this rather lumpy mass of non-specific "knowing".
Dick Hein responded:
< Possibly caused by emotional centering? >
Not at all, I have intellectual Centering, moving part. >>
Me too! And the same thing with feelings and colors happens to me too! I
was starting to feel...bad or something, 'cause I am a scholar with
intellect/mov. part. But glad to know there's others out there that do the
same thing. I'm not a slacker! Hooray! Unless I am, and "chose" to be a part
of the Gen-X thing so I can learn about slacking...hehe!
Question...I had another question to ask the group here...digging...yes, I
would be interested to hear everyone's views on depression/mood
disorders...Has Michael ever explained any of this? Is this a choice? Must be.
But what good is it, to have depression? A challenge? Or something good in
itself? Are there others out there with depression? (must be, huh?) How do you
view it, in light of the Michael teachings? Also, a question on intelligence.
Do we choose our level of intelligence? Or is a certain amount of that part of
our own essence? When we are free from our "earth lives", are we all of the
same intelligence? And, one more question...Do we ever spend time "somewhere
else" before moving on to a new life experience? If so, where do we go and
what do we do? Are we growing between lives as well, or delivering info to the
group? Is it ever possible to kind of sneak in a life somewhere else (besides
human being life) before continuing on?
Okay, I lied. I have one more question! What exactly is the "entity"? I am
third entity. Is that just a type of essence? Or is that my group of a
thousand entities? How many entities are there?
I must thank everyone for answering my questions thus far -- thank you all
very much! I thoroughly enjoy this list!
byebye!
-------------------- Kris
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:05:28 +0000
Subject: getting upset
Mike H said:
> I think my constant compulsion to support
> and seek justice for the disenfranchised is my ET at work.
> Even though I know it's all a game, I get very angry when
> others are mistreated or abused, or receive unjust punishment
> for errors they make. I know it's a waste of my energy, but
> the compulsion is so strong it's hard to deal with.
I've read Michael saying that when we are repulsed by something in others
or in the world (eg, injustice towards the poor), it's generally a sign that
we have been through that particular karmic loop (eg, of being unjust towards
poor people). We've committed something karmic, then experienced being on the
receiving end in a later life, and "got" what an unpleasant thing it was, and
we are now, I guess, glad to see the back of it.
B a r r y
_______________________________________________________
Mature Scholar (level 5) : growth/perseverance/idealist/imaptience
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:22:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Depression/mood disorders
Hi Kris,
> Question...I had another question to ask the
group here...digging...yes, I
> would be interested to hear everyone's views on depression/mood
disorders...
In answer to your question about others with depression, I have a mild form
of depression/anxiety attacks. I can't speak for others, but I think in my
case it's my goal of re-evaluation and my chief feature of martyrdom
interacting together that cause my "attacks". (The negative pole of
re-evaluation is retreat and the negative pole of martyrdom is sacrifice (I
think: I'm away from my books), so instead of sacrificing myself in a nice
public space, I privately sacrifice myself. A useless cycle, but oh well...
It's one I hope to defeat someday.)
> But what good is it, to have depression? A
challenge? Or something good
> in itself? Are there others out there with depression? (must be, huh?)
I don't know if it's a choice or a result, but I know that in my case, that
the anxiety attacks are a good indication of when something in my life has to
be changed. I don't think I "chose" this in this life, in the sense that it
was planned, but it does make life interesting.
--Kathy K.
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 02:13:22 -0800
Subject: Re: Assimilation (1998-11/1113)
| Archive of Michael Teachings List
(1998-11/1113)
| From: Iblisblu
| Question...I had another question to ask the group here...digging...yes,
| I would be interested to hear everyone's views on depression/mood
| disorders...Has Michael ever explained any of this? Is this a choice?
| Must be. But what good is it, to have depression? A challenge? Or
| something good in itself? Are there others out there with depression?
| (must be, huh?) How do you view it, in light of the Michael teachings?
There is brief mention of depression in one of the early books( and possibly
in one of the others (Yarbro).
| Also, a question on intelligence. Do we
choose our level of
| intelligence? Or is a certain amount of that part of our own essence?
| When we are free from our "earth lives", are we all of the same
intelligence?
I have seen very little in the Michael books about intelligence. They do
mention in one place that intelligence and soul age are not related.
| And, one more question...Do we ever spend
time "somewhere else" before
| moving on to a new life experience? If so, where do we go and what do we
do?
On the astral plane. This is another area that has very little coverage in
the Michael books. See »Journey of Souls Michael Newton for what is IMO a
comprehensive treatise on this subject.
| Are we growing between lives as well,
Yes, but not in the same way as when we are incarnate.
| or delivering info to the group?
???
| Is it ever possible to kind of sneak in a
life somewhere else (besides
| human being life) before continuing on?
There is no mention of that in the Michael teachings I am familiar with.
| Okay, I lied. I have one more question! What
exactly is the "entity"?
An entity is composed of about 1000 fragments.
| I am third entity. Is that just a type of
essence? Or is that my group | of a thousand entities? How many entities are
there?
You are asking very basic questions. I suggest you get and read »The
Journey of Your Soul Shepherd Hoodwin and/or »The World According to Michael
Joya Pope for excellent information about the teachings.
Cheers,
Dick [2.1(3)/5/4.2-144=4.7.3<5.150/M5=26/IME/4.11>]
----------------------------------------------------
Dick Hein / Mountain View, California.
[--------------------===============<*>===============--------------------]
Although all the cycles can become depressed, depression is the only serious
disorder of the old soul. Depression can arrest growth for a lifetime.
[M1.213]
Depression is normally the passive personality's only channel through which it
can express hostility. The anger can be self-directed, but it does not have to
be. [M1.214]
---
M1 = »Messages From MichaelChelsea Quinn Yarbro
In marking quoted material, the marks »textpresent italics. They will usually
surround those portions containing the lesser amount of material. Occasionally
they will demark italicized material within the quote.
The following table shows nominal markings for each title -
M1 = Michael »Otherr>
===
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:17:53 -0800
Subject: Re: Eccentric level/Sages/Growth
JJ,
> I think there might be influence of
"Impatience" in there somewhere. At
> least it feels that way where negative pole is concerned. :-)
OOOOOooooohhh sooooo true!!!!! You hit that one right on the head JJ.... It
never ceases to amaze me that others will always see me clearer than I can see
myself. I get to mired down in my own being and thoughts that I can't see
myself.
> Yeah... well, this Sage has Reserve Mode and
Pragmatic attitude. Don't
> they just take the fun out?
LOL!! we'll just have to drag you out of the corner JJ...
Hugs (cause even stuck folks can enjoy)
Diane
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:13:09 EST
Subject: Dick Hein's Questions for Michael
I mentioned that I am accepting general interest questions for Michael for
posting on my web site. Here are some q & a's that Dick Hein submitted.
Best,
Shepherd
Q. =93A body can actually exist for a time with no soul, like a car idling.
However, after a while, it will die if no soul takes it.
I've heard this before. Can you give an approximate time frame? Are we
talking hours, days, weeks, months?
A. A body can live for several weeks without a soul residing in it provided
that the body is well cared for. However, for this to occur, there must be
souls sending the body energy. This can be from a loving person; however,
usually there are discarnate souls involved who are keeping the engine
running, so to speak, while a soul is lined up to come in. In the case of a
severely damaged body that no soul wishes to inhabit, once those around it
lose interest, it will die in a couple days.
Q. I noticed that in the sample chapter "Working with Spirit Guides" in the
upcoming book Growing Through Joy, there is no mention of the fact that
one's ET is often the primary spirit guide when the ET is discarnate. Was
that an oversight?
A. No, because the essence twin relationship is usually different from that
of spirit guide. It is more intimate, almost a shared experience of the
body. In rare cases the essence twin stays separate enough to be a guide,
who must be an objective coach.
Q. When the multiple manifestations of the Infinite Soul occur, will they
all be from one plane or from multiple planes? Which one(s)?
A. We expect that there will be representations of each of the three high
planes in the next manifestation.
Q. In Michael's People is the quote -
As the Infinite Soul, being the embodiment of seven, displaces only
final-level Old Kings...
In Michael's Cast of Characters Emily Baumbach reports that Buddha was a
Priest. Can you clarify?
A. The man Buddha, before the manifestation, was a king but with strong
priest essence twin bleedthrough and casting.
Q. What effects, if any, do earthquakes and underwater volcanoes have on
cetaceans?
A. Not much, really. They find them entertaining, similar to the way you
find shooting stars entertaining.
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:40:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Dick Hein's Questions for Michael (1998-11/1118)
Hi Shepherd,
Thanks for yours -
| From: ShepherdH
| Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:13:09 EST
Interesting answers, all.
| Q. When the multiple manifestations of the
Infinite Soul occur, will
| they all be from one plane or from multiple planes? Which one(s)?
|
| A. We expect that there will be representations of each of the three
| high planes in the next manifestation.
Cool.
| Q. What effects, if any, do earthquakes and
underwater volcanoes have on cetaceans? |
| A. Not much, really. They find them entertaining, similar to the way
| you find shooting stars entertaining.
Good to hear!
Cheers,
Dick [2.1(3)/5/4.2-144=4.7.3<5.150/M5=26/IME/4.11>]
----------------------------------------------------
Dick Hein / Mountain View, California.
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:30:08 -0800
Subject: Re: Growth
Shepherd said:
> Thank you, Lori, for your comment about the
goal of growth being a > concentrated experience of what we're all doing
anyway. That makes sense to me.
Hi Shepherd -- Thanks but I don't think I can take credit for having said
that. I forget who said it...but I totally agree! I was the one who said the
goal of growth was like flying. And I'd add, that (at least right now) I'm
glad I'm one of the flyers and not somebody...say, in air traffic
control--even if it means I crash and burn sometimes. Yikes! ;-) But yes, I
think we're all growing and evolving.
Of general interest to all:
A publisher wrote to me a couple weeks ago to tell me parts of Carol
Heideman's book "Searching for Light," is now on-line. I read this book a
couple years ago, and one of the main things I got from it was that we are all
growing and evolving, just at different paces, and on different paths to the
same destination. One of Michael's main points in the book is about choosing
to grow with pain, or with joy.
I know that many folks thought this book wasn't very "Michael-ish," but for
those of us who are into Lightwork, I thought it was such a wonderful book. I
was very grateful to see that there was a Michael book that took on this
topic. It is a very well-grounded approach, IMHO.
Check out this URL: http://www.twelvestar.com/SFL/SFL.html
I just checked it, and indeed, the first chapter, on Earth's
Transformation, includes the part about growth with joy or pain. Chapters 1,
6, 12, and 15 are all on-line there!
Blessings,
Lori
(Who btw, is just barely a Gemini, with Saggitarius rising -- air signs! How
could growth not be like flying for me then, eh? And, of all things, I work in
air pollution testing....) :-) Hmmm, some more little bits come together for
me, heh heh....
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 22:48:47 +0000
Subject: Re: Depression
Kris wrote:
..........................................................................
I would be interested to hear everyone's views on depression/mood
disorders...Has Michael ever explained any of this? Is this a choice? Must be.
But what good is it, to have depression? A challenge? Or something good in
itself?
..........................................................................
You may be very interested to hear about a reading given recently to a
relative of mine. She has been seriously depressed (suicidal at times)
throughout a lot of her life, and for "no apparent reason". The cause of her
depression had always been a mystery. The Michael reading, however, identified
the source as this: in her last life both she and her ET, who were close
lovers at the time, died from being horribly abused in a Nazi concentration
camp. It's not surprising that she feels not only that the world is a bad
place but also that a part of her is missing (her ET is still discarnate for
the moment).
I suspect that depression is not a _choice_, exactly, but a by-product of
the life chosen, whether this one or a previous one.
Kris also wrote:
..........................................................................
Do we ever spend time "somewhere else" before moving on to a new life
experience? If so, where do we go and what do we do? Are we growing between
lives as well, or delivering info to the group?
..........................................................................
Read the book <Journey of Souls> by hypnotherapist Michael Newton.
Basically, it seems that after death we find our "usual place" in the
mid-astral where we team up with our discarnate co-workers, study what we've
done and could do next, then prepare to give it another go!
B a r r y
_____________________________________
Mature Scholar (level 5) : growth/perseverance/idealist/imaptience
http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~barrym/ei.htm
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:55:25 -0600
Subject: Navy Tests on Whales
To Shepherd or any of the other Michael Channelers,
I know this is a lot to ask of you, but I am so concerned about the tests
that the Navy is conducting off Hawaii to see if LFAS harms whales and
dolphins. Suddenly there are dead whales and dolphins turning up everywhere.
If any of you are channeling could you ask Michael if they are receiving any
information about this. Someone from the Navy advised me that they are not
hurting the whales, but I cannot bring myself to trust anything the military
says.
Thanks to any and all of you.
Jeanne Holley (not feeling very Sagey...)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:24:40 -0600
Subject: Re: Depression
Kris also wrote:
.........................................................................
Do we ever spend time "somewhere else" before moving on to a new life
experience? If so, where do we go and what do we do? Are we growing between
lives as well, or delivering info to the group?
.........................................................................
Barry wrote:
Read the book <Journey of Souls> by hypnotherapist Michael Newton.
Basically, it seems that after death we find our "usual place" in the
mid-astral where we team up with our discarnate co-workers, study what we've
done and could do next, then prepare to give it another go!
A number of years ago I heard a tape of my youngest sister who, under
hypnosis, had been regressed to the "time between lives" on the astral plane.
She was analyzing the life she had previously completed and was planning what
her life task had to be for the next life (the one as my sister). What was
most interesting was that she had become a hermit in the past life and had
stopped communicating with everyone except one old woman who looked after her
(she was a man). When she was born as my sister, she was born breech with the
umbilical cord wrapped around her throat. For the first two years of her life
she had no voice, as her vocal chords had been injured at birth. So even then
she could not communicate. She does so very well now. Since I've been a
"Michael Student" I have begun to see the relevance of this sort of thing.
Jeanne Holley
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 98 00:49:14 UT
Subject: RE: Digest No. 1998-03-17 of Michael Teachings List
Kris wrote: But what good is it, to have depression? A challenge? Or
something good in itself? Are there others out there with depression? (must
be, huh?) How do you view it, in light of the Michael teachings?
I seem to go through a major depression every 7 to 9 years. I have a goal
of growth, and I've come to see these depressions as 'time outs' from the
intensity of the rest of my life. As I've come to accept this and even welcome
these time outs, the depressions have lessened in severity - the last one was
very mild and only lasted about a month. Perhaps I'm doing re-evaluation along
with growth? (Can one have a secondary goal?)
Kathy: A quick technique for stopping anxiety attacks is the "thymus knock"
- knock a dozen times at the top of your sternum, right over the thymus, as
soon as you feel that an attack is coming. I don't know why, but it works.
------------<--{@ Jody
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:12:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Depression
Jodi wrote:
I seem to go through a major depression every
7 to 9 years. Have you ever had an astrology chart done? 7 years corresponds
to Saturn's cycle, and Saturn takes approx 2 years to travel thru a sign.
Jeanne wrote:
What was most interesting was that she had
become a hermit in the past life and had stopped communicating with everyone
except one old woman who looked after her (she was a man). When she was born
as my sister, she was born breech with the umbilical cord wrapped around her
throat. For the first two years of her life she had no voice, as her vocal
chords had been injured at birth.
There is a book by Roger J Woolger, PHD, called OTHER LIVES, OTHER SELVES,
a Jungian Psychotherapist Discovers Past Lives. He documents a lot of the same
type phenomena, as well as certain birthmarks marking the spot of injury that
led to one's changing of bodies, so to speak. Has anyone else read the book?
Just curious,
Sharon
Artisan from the intellectual part of the emotional center/ goal of growth/
caution mode/ pragmatist attitude.
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:04:44 EST
Subject: Re: Depression
I read Other Lives, Other Selves, years ago and liked it very much, maybe
it's time to pull it out again! BTW, a Saturn cycle is more like 29 years :).
Martha
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:24:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Saturn Cycle and depression
Oops, I didn't explain it right. The first seven years saturn will square
itself, then by the next seven years it will oppose itself, then seven years
from that, will be in square aspect again, then by the time you are approx 29
years old Saturn will conjunct itself. It takes 29 years for the cycle to
complete itself, and Saturn to travel the full circle around the chart.
In the interpretation of transits to a chart, the conjunction, square, and
opposition are looked at first. With a serious depression happening every 7-9
years, the astrologer in me went, "aha, sounds like saturn's travels setting
off something."
--Sharon
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:11:35 -0800
Subject: Re: Secondary overleaves (1998-11/1125)
| From: Jody Bower
| Date: Wed, 18 Mar 98 00:49:14 UT
| I seem to go through a major depression every 7 to 9 years. I have a
| goal of growth, and I've come to see these depressions as 'time outs'
| from the intensity of the rest of my life. As I've come to accept this
| and even welcome these time outs, the depressions have lessened in
| severity - the last one was very mild and only lasted about a month.
| Perhaps I'm doing re-evaluation along with growth? (Can one have a
| secondary goal?)
You can slide between overleaves on the same axis (those on the neutral
assimilation axis can slide to any), or they can be blended.(
Cheers,
Dick [2.1(3)/5/4.2-144=4.7.3<5.150/M5=26/IME/4.11>]
----------------------------------------------------
Dick Hein / Mountain View, California.
[--------------------===============<*>===============--------------------]
Sliding means temporarily moving to another overleaf. Overleaves on the
three other axes can slide only to their "partners" on the axis. For
example, caution mode can slide to power, and vice versa. Most people with a
neutral overleaf have one or two others to which they occasionally slide,
but some people spend little time in the neutral overleaf itself, just using
it as a convenient means of getting to others. In fact, some people slide
around constantly, and there are even those who slide to everything.
[JS1.261]
Occasionally, people also combine overleaf energies. Some do more than one
overleaf simultaneously, rather than sliding to one at a time. [JS1.261]
Some of us simultaneously hold as many as three chief features. They can be
blended, as with a stubborn martyr, or separate, as with someone who is both
self-destructive and arrogant. This is different than sliding between chief
features, focusing on one at a time. [JS1.262]
---
JS1 = »The Journey of Your Soul / Shepherd Hoodwin
In marking quoted material, the marks »textpresent italics. They will
usually surround those portions containing the lesser amount of material.
Occasionally they will demark italicized material within the quote.
The following table shows nominal markings for each title -
JS1 = Author »Michaelp>
===
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 20:14:46 -0600
Subject: Re: Depression
Sharon wrote:
There is a book by Roger J Woolger, PHD,
called OTHER LIVES, OTHER
SELVES, a Jungian Psychotherapist Discovers Past Lives. He documents a
lot of the same type phenomena, as well as certain birthmarks marking
the spot of injury that led to one's changing of bodies, so to speak.
Has anyone else read the book?
Just curious,
Sharon
Sharon,
I haven't read this book, but I will pick it up. Thanks for the title.
Jeanne Holley
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 01:05:45 EST
From: ShepherdH
Subject: Other Lives, Other Selves by Roger Woolger
There is a book by Roger J Woolger, PHD,
called OTHER LIVES, OTHER
SELVES, a Jungian Psychotherapist Discovers Past Lives. He documents a
lot of the same type phenomena, as well as certain birthmarks marking
the spot of injury that led to one's changing of bodies, so to speak.
Has anyone else read the book?
I love this book! It is one of a handfull of non-Michael books I keep to
sell to clients (I also do past-life therapy). I attended a couple of Roger's
workshops in New York beginning ten years ago and we became good friends,
trading sessions. He's another old sage in my entity.
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:30:42 +0000
Subject: Re: Depression
Sharon wrote:
There is a book by Roger J Woolger, PHD,
called OTHER LIVES,
OTHER SELVES, a Jungian Psychotherapist Discovers Past Lives. He documents a
lot of the same type phenomena, as well as certain birthmarks marking
the spot of injury that led to one's changing of bodies, so to speak.
Has anyone else read the book?
That is a terrific book. There's a two tape set by Woolger called 'Jungian
Past Life Therapy' that's also excellent. On the second tape you get to hear
an actual past-life regression, which is fascinating.
On this same topic, I can also strongly recommend a book by Charles Breaux
called 'The Way of Karma.' Breaux has the ability to tell the story of how
people's lifetimes fit together, and how issues, wounds, and other themes are
carried over and dealt with from one life to the next. It was very, very
interesting and well written.
Love always,
Dean
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:01:19 -0600
Subject: Essence and Overleaves
I wanted to let everyone know how valuable this list has been to me. When I
first subscribed I had read all three of the Yarbro "Michael" books several
times and I understood what I had read "intellectually". After I found this
list, I had Caris Turpen channel my Role and Overleaves and I cannot tell you
what a difference that knowledge has made. I no longer just intellectualize
about who I am. I see who I am and why I am that way. I can go back through my
life see why I've made the choices, decisions and mistakes I've made. Now I am
learning about the errors and it's so much easier to forgive myself for
foolish mistakes.
I am telling you this because I hope that many of the listers here who have
read the books but never had their Role and Overleaves channeled, will begin
to understand what a disservice they are doing themselves. We have some
wonderful channels available through Lori's Links on her webpage. I am opening
up so much, I want everyone to have this joyful experience. And read the newer
books because some of them are fabulous. This is not for you folks who've been
around a long time and already know all of this, it's for all the people like
myself who have studied Michael in a two dimensional way. The third dimension
is so exciting.
Love and Laughter :-))
Jeanne Holley
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 04:02:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Essence and Overleaves
Jeanne wrote:
I wanted to let everyone know how valuable
this list has been to me.
<clip>
And the sage in me is jumping up and down with excitement in this spurt of
growth saying oooooh we are having soooooooo much fun!!!!!!! Don't
forget....validation :P
Hugs, (just cause!!)
Diane
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 17:15:22 -0600
Subject: Re: Essence and Overleaves
Diane wrote:
And the sage in me is jumping up and down with
excitement in this spurt
of growth saying oooooh we are having soooooooo much fun!!!!!!! Don't
forget....validation :P
Hugs, (just cause!!)
Diane
Yes, of course, my jiminy cricket conscience, please please, everyone:
Validate, because if you don't all the wonderful Old Souls on this list will
remind you to do that. (I have been doing that Diane, I swear I have.)
Love, Laughter and another Hug :-)))
Jeanne Holley
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 98 18:14:58 UT
Subject: RE: Validation and dragons
I agree this list is a great resource!
I've spent most of the last week wrestling with my chief feature,
arrogance. There was a fiasco at work and while it was not my fault, many of
my co-workers were convinced it is or I should have somehow prevented it. I
could have chosen to go totally into defense mode and spend all my energy
"proving" my innocence, as my "dragon" wanted, but I was able to identify that
impulse for fear and instead step up and take responsibility for solving the
problem. This has resulted in some great heart-to-heart talks with people I
work with and has led to some positive changes!
I wanted to share that as an example of how the Michael teachings have
helped me, and I'll accept validation from ANY age soul!
Jose Stevens' book on chief features, "Transforming Your Dragons," has been
the tool that has helped me the most in this effort. I can't recommend it
highly enough. It's written in non-Michael-ese and I've given it to many
friends who are not Michael students; they all say it's been amazingly
helpful.
By the way, Michael told me last fall that I was "4/7ths" of the way
through the fourth internal monad, which they said could be thought of as
"four sharp peaks and three deep valleys." I haven't run across that concept
in the readings and I was wondering if other people can relate to that way of
thinking about this monad. (I think I must have just gone through the third
valley.)
-----------<--{@ Jody
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 13:41:18 -0600
Subject: Re: RE: Validation and dragons
To Jody, Dick and all of the "Other Than Old Souls", my humble apologies. I
did not mean to infer that good messages and validation reminders could not
come from any member of the list whose been working with the Teachings for
awhile. I hang my head in shame.
Love from bended knee begging forgiveness,
Jeanne Holley
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 15:03:20 EST
From: WWQUINTET
Subject: Re: Validation and dragons
In a message dated 98-03-21 14:44:09 EST, Jeanne Holley writes:
<< Love from bended knee begging forgiveness,
Jeanne Holley >>
{Tosses Jeanne a crusty scrap of bread}
"Don't beg on this street corner, woman."
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 19:05:35 -0800
Subject: Re: Validation and dragons
ROTFL
God, Dave! You know, they make pills for moodiness at your time of the
month.... ;-p ('cause you are what you eat)
teehee,
Lori %^)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 00:59:34 -0800
Subject: Re: Essence and Overleaves (1998-11/1136)
| From: Jeanne Holley
| Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:01:19 -0600
|
| I wanted to let everyone know how valuable this list has been to me.
| When I first subscribed I had read all three of the Yarbro "Michael"
| books several times and I understood what I had read "intellectually".
| After I found this list, I had Caris Turpen channel my Role and
| Overleaves and I cannot tell you what a difference that knowledge has
| made. I no longer just intellectualize about who I am. I see who I am
| and why I am that way. I can go back through my life see why I've made
| the choices, decisions and mistakes I've made. Now I am learning about
| the errors and it's so much easier to forgive myself for foolish mistakes.
|
| I am telling you this because I hope that many of the listers here who
| have read the books but never had their Role and Overleaves channeled,
| will begin to understand what a disservice they are doing themselves.
Getting your Role, soul age and overleaves channeled, together with your
own validation of the information, can lead to much insight. Michael has
spoken about the necessity to know and understand the meaning of one's
overleaves if one is to understand the teachings.(
Cheers,
Dick [2.1(3)/5/4.2-144=4.7.3<5.150/M5=26/IME/4.11>]
----------------------------------------------------
Dick Hein / Mountain View, California.
[--------------------===============<*>===============--------------------]
Self-awareness begins with validation of the individual overleaves and a
sense of what direction the life is taking. That is not as simple a task as
it sounds, for there are many aspects to this recognition that do not come
easily to fragments on the physical plane. Much of the past is cloaked in
misunderstandings and misinformation... [M2.159]
The obtaining and understanding of overleaves is certainly the first step to
validation, and very much at the heart of what we are communicating to you.
If the perceptions of overleaves are faulty, then it is likely that other
information is not accurately perceived. The overleaves are the means by
which each of you decides to experience your life. As you have seen, it is
possible to experience the "flavor" of all essences by selecting overleaves
that provide that quality of experience without shifting the nature of
essence itself, or the casting imperative. If the overleaves are not
understood, much of what we teach will make little sense. [M2.224]
To perceive the validity of the Overleaves, the interaction of function, is
to grasp the whole nature of choice, for all choices possible to all
fragments extant upon the physical plane are attainable through the range
and polarities of the Overleaves. [M3.271]
We would suggest that ... the perception of the Overleaves, as interpreted
by the personality and defined by enculturation, is very Good Work indeed,
whether that perception is limited to your own, or extends beyond to others.
When a fragment has reached the degree of perception that can recognize that
a misbehaving child can be a third-level Mature King and still be a
misbehaving child, and that both are valid and "appropriate" for the
fragment, then there has been commendable progress indeed. [M3.274]
No one requires you to accept this, or any, teaching. No one requires that
you recognize or validate any portion of your life, your life task, your
Overleaves, or any other aspect of your self. If you choose validation,
there is no certainty of greater evolution than if you do not choose it.
However, for some fragments, choosing recognition and validation does
provide insights that aid in making choices, both in regard to themselves
and to others. We will answer any questions asked of us, without
qualification. You are free to choose to use the material, or not to use it,
in any way you wish. That is not only what we offer, it is the lesson as
well. [M3.278]
---
M2 = »More Messages From MichaelChelsea Quinn Yarbro (OOP)
M3 = »Michael's PeopleChelsea Quinn Yarbro (OOP)
In marking quoted material, the marks »textpresent italics. They will
usually surround those portions containing the lesser amount of material.
Occasionally they will demark italicized material within the quote.
The following table shows nominal markings for each title -
M2 = Michael »Otherr> M3 = Michael »Otherbr>
===
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 05:05:48 EST
Subject: Re: Validation and dragons
In a message dated 98-03-21 22:03:39 EST, Lori Tostado writes:
<< ROTFL
God, Dave! You know, they make pills for moodiness at your time of the
month.... ;-p ('cause you are what you eat)
teehee,
Lori %^) >>
Moody? Well, I just stole a dead fly away from a blind spider, but I'm
certainly not going to eat it. However, if I AM what I eat, then stick a spoon
in me, because I taste just like chocolate-chip cookie dough ice cream. ;-p
AND NOW BACK TO OUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED PROGRAMMING...
Dave :-)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 98 17:03:14 UT
From: Jody Bower
Subject: RE: Begging for forgiveness
<< Love from bended knee begging forgiveness,
Jeanne Holley >>
{Tosses Jeanne a crusty scrap of bread}
"Don't beg on this street corner, woman."
{Hands Jeanne a bunch of roses}
"What you do with sincerity gives the greatest reward."
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:41:58 -0800
Subject: Re; Begging for forgiveness
Hooray for Jeanne and Jody!
You GO!!!
Love,
Lori :^)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:46:20 +0000
From: Barry McGuinness
Subject: Michael and Gurdjieff
My fellow fragments,
I'd like to open up a new can of worms. I've been really struck recently by
the overlap between the Michael teachings and the system taught by Gurdjieff.
Consider the following concepts, shared by both teachings:-
~ Essence
~ True Pesonality and False Personality
~ Chief Feature
~ Centers (higher/lower) and Parts of Centers
~ Body Type
~ Law of Three
~ Law of Seven
~ "Photographing"
Why such an overlap? I wonder if any of you channels could clarify this
with Michael? I can see at least three different scenarios:-
1. Gurdjieff's teachers, or possibly Gurdjieff himself, were inspired by or
even were students of Michael.
2. The Michael teachings are someone's subconscious re-hash of Gurdjieff
mixed up with a bit of Hinduism and Taoism.
3. Michael is a fictional character made up by a secretive group of
Gurdjieff followers!
I don't go with 2 or 3, by the way!! My own view is that the Gurdjieff
teachings were probably intuitions of the same universal truths taught by
Michael, and that the Michael entity have simply adopted some of Gurdjieff's
vocabulary for convenience because it fits their concepts.
It is worth noting that there are many concepts which Michael teaches that
do not appear in any substantial way in the Gurdjieff system -- reincarnation,
karma, soul age cycle, level within cycle, and most glaringly of all, the
overleaves.And there is some stuff taught by Gurdjieff which, to my mind,
seems to be mixed-up gobbledygook. (The role of the moon, and stuff about
hydrogen, for instance).
Anyway, this is my thought for the day. I'd be interested to hear others'
comments. I'm a curious Scholar. Is there a Michael student out there who's
also a follower of Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, et al? Are there any Gurdjieffians
who have come across the Michael material? Has there been any cross-over
between the two systems?
***
SCHOLAR ALERT: For those of you who are interested, I've included a
Gurdjieffian glossary at the end of this piece. This is taken from a book
called "Self-Remembering" by Robert Earl Burton (Samuel Weiser, Inc, 1995). I
think some of these definitions are actually very clear and helpful for a
better understanding Michael's information. The stuff on the relationship
between the centers and a deck of cards is particularly interesting. Add it to
your database, fellow scholars!
B a r r y
___________________________________
Gurdjieffian Terms
------------------
*** ESSENCE and PERSONALITY ***
[The definition of essence here is a bit different
from my understanding of it through Michael]
ESSENCE = "The qualities of a human machine [organism] that are inherent
at birth, such as physical characteristics, body type, center of gravity
[centering] and alchemy [perceptivity?]. In most people, essence develops
only during the first six or seven years of their lives, after which it is
largely covered by False Personality. Consequently, an experience of essence
is often accompanied by a sense of childlike freedom and lightheartedness."
TRUE PERSONALITY = "Personality based on an understanding of one's
essence and the needs of one's work [life task], which therefore serves and
promotes both essence and the work."
FALSE PERSONALITY = A person's imaginary picture of himself, together
with all the psychological mechanisms that are necessary to protect that
picture. It develops in childhood in response to the pressures to receive
adult approval and to behave in a socially acceptable way, but soon grows
beyond its original role of protecting essence and acquires a life of its
own. In the end, it completely dominates the lives of most people with a
network of attitudes and patterns of behavior that are contrary to their
true nature in essence."
*** CENTERING ***
CENTERS = "The different independent intelligences or brains that exist
for a human being. Four of these are present in all people":
1. INSTINCTIVE center
2. MOVING center
3. EMOTIONAL center
4. INTELLECTUAL center
"In addition to these four lower centers, there is also the SEX center,
which is a source of higher energy that can be used for such things as
procreation, artistic expression and awakening, and two higher centers: the
HIGHER EMOTIONAL and the HIGHER INTELLECTUAL. These two higher centers exist
separately from the machine [organism] and manifest in higher states of
consciousness. They can be considered to be functions of the soul."
SEX CENTER: "Because the energy of the sex center manifests through the
other centers, the sex center can only be directly observed in higher states
of consciousness."
HIGHER CENTERS: "The higher emotional center is capable of perceiving the
connectedness of all things and is the seat of conscious love and
compassion. The higher intellectual center perceives the laws that govern
all things and is the seat of conscious wisdom."
PARTS : "Each of the lower centers is further divided into a PART. The
parts are distinguished by the kind of attention that manifests in them":
1. INTELLECTUAL part - characterized by intentional effort to hold and
direct attention
2. EMOTIONAL part - functions when attention is drawn to and held by
something.
3. MOVING and INSTINCTIVE parts [referred to together as the Mechanical
part] - functions automatically and without awareness.
"The division can be carried one level further, to the Instinctive,
Moving, Emotional and Intellectual parts of each part."
"Centers, and their parts, are also divided into POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE
HALVES. The positive half affirms, and leads one toward things that seem
beneficial to that part of the center. The negative half denies, and leads
one away from things things that seem harmful or dangerous to that part of
the center."
CARDS : "All of this is represented in the DECK OF PLAYING CARDS. Each
suit represents a center":
Clubs - Instinctive center
Spades - Moving center
Hearts - Emotional center
Diamonds - Intellectual center
"The ace represents the center as a whole. The face cards represent the
three parts":
Jack - Mechanical part [Instinctive + Moving]
Queen - Emotional part
King - Intellectual part
[Thus the Emotional part of the Intellectual center, for example, is the
Queen of Diamonds.]
"The numbered cards represent the parts of parts":
2/3/4 - Mechanical/Emotional/Intellectual parts of the Jack
5/6/7 - Mechanical/Emotional/Intellectual parts of the Queen
8/9/10- Mechanical/Emotional/Intellectual parts of the King
*** CHIEF FEATURE ***
FEATURES = "Fundamental attitudes in personality about oneself and one's
relation to the world, along with all the psychological mechanisms that are
needed to support and express those attitudes." In Robert Burton's version
of the system, the principal features (which don't map so easily onto
Michael's) are:-
1. vanity [= self-deprecation]
2. power
3. dominance
4. nonexistence [martyrdom?]
5. greed [= greed!]
6. tramp
7. fear [self-destruction?]
8. naivete [arrogance?]
9. willfulness [= stubbornness]
10. lunatic [impatience?]
"In each person, one of these is the CHIEF FEATURE, one or two others are
strongly expressed, and there are traces of the remaining features."
"As the core of False Personality, [chief feature] determines the
fundamental way in which people view themselves and the world, and affects
virtually all of their actions. Other features in a person's personality
serve to support the chief feature and provide buffers for it."
*** BODY TYPES ***
"A system, described by Rodney Collin* and elaborated by Robert Burton**,
which classifies all human machines [organisms] according to seven basic
types. It links the cosmos of an individual to the cosmos of a solar system
by establishing a link between the endocrine glands of the human body and
the visible celestial bodies of the solar system, after which the types are
named. Typically, an individual's physical and psychological characteristics
can be described as a combination of two types, according to a definite
progression. This progression, also referred to as the circulation of types,
begins with the lunar type, then proceeds to the venusian, the mercurial,
the saturnine, the martial and the jovial before returning to the lunar. The
seventh type, the solar, exists separately from this progression and can be
found in combination with any of the other types."
* Rodney Collin: A student of Ouspensky and teacher of the system in
Latin America. Died 1956.
** Robert Burton: Leader of a modern school in the Gurdjieff-Ouspensky
tradition; author of these definitions.
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:53:05 +0000
Subject: That fourth monad
Jody wrote:
<< By the way, Michael told me last fall that
I was "4/7ths" of the way
through the fourth internal monad, which they said could be thought of as
"four
sharp peaks and three deep valleys." I haven't run across that concept in
the
readings and I was wondering if other people can relate to that way of
thinking about this monad. (I think I must have just gone through the
third valley.) >>
Michael also told me I'm 4/7 through the 4th monad, but I didn't get this
peaks and valleys stuff. However, I'd say I've definitely been in my latest
valley for about 6 months or so - a sense of near-defeat about never finding
my true work, fear of letting go of the past and heading into an uncertain
future, lots of confusion and a desire to withdraw and not face any of it.
Does this sound familiar to anyone else?
B a r r y
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:16:56 EST
Subject: Re: Michael and Gurdjieff
Barry,
Thanks for posting the Gurjieff definitions, especially the information about
the centers. Seeing the same phenomenom described in more than one way can add
to my understanding of it.
The fourth internal monad is of interest to quite few people on this list,
including me. (I'm 41.) If you have any more information about the whats and
whys of those peaks and valleys, it would be greatly appreciated here.
---Thanks, John Clark
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:30:24 -0800
Subject: That fourth monad
> a sense of near-defeat about never finding
my true work, fear of letting
> go of the past and heading into an uncertain future, lots of confusion and
> a desire to withdraw and not face any of it. Does this sound familiar to
anyone else?
> B a r r y
Absolutely! A non Michael channel told me to meditate and I think they
were encouraging me to let go of my false personality effort to divert me with
projects and interests that are not remotely connected with my true work. It
is a source of great frustration for me. I wish I could see from the point of
view of essence. The feeling I get is that most of what I am trying to do is
unimportant as far as true work goes.
Mike H.
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:02:53 -0800
Subject: General Question
> But when I start to figure out any Michael
Math this door closes in my brain.
I see Michael Math as additional influence from other roles sorta like
the bleed through you get from your essence twin. I see the entity as a sphere
with the fragments on the surface all laid out like a quilt covering the
sphere. The quilt, made of squares, has rows and columns like the rows and
columns I have seen used to describe the way Michael Math works. Anyway, that
is what works for me.
Mike H.
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:07:48 -0800
Subject: Re: Michael and Gurdjieff
> If you have any more information about the
whats and
> whys of those peaks and valleys, it would be greatly appreciated here.
I would also like to see more information on that. My essence twin
scholar is hollering for more information!
Mike H.
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 00:40:41 EST
Subject: Re: Michael and Gurdjieff
Dear Barry -- About the Gurdjieff connection, you're pretty much right.
JP and Aaron channeled (in their tape "Origins of the Michael Teaching"
that Gurdjieff was bringing through Michael information, without particularly
knowing "who" the source was. Michael named G. as one of their most prominent
recent contacts before the groups in California.
The original Michael channel, Sarah Chambers, and several of the other key
members of the original group in 1973-74-75 were students of Gurdjieff or his
followers, so that would explain a lot.
I'm really interested to see your mention of a book by Robert Burton. He
was a character that the early Michael group people frequently asked about,
wondering, for example, whether he was a transcendental soul. He must have
been quite a prominent and dominant character in the Gurdjieff scene at the
time in the Bay Area. (Sounded to me like a very big ego trip.)
For people interested in the early transcripts.....go to the AMT website (www.amt.to),
look in the Directory entry for Sara Alexander. She was a member of the
original group and offers to make copies available.
All the best, Ed Hamerstrom
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 00:45:22 EST
Subject: Re: General Question
Dear Jeanne -- You're right; Shepherd's cadre numbers are 2 more than what
JP et al give for the same cadre. JP's #1 is Shepherd's #3, 2 is 4, and so on.
All the best, Ed
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