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Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 02:06:41 -0800
| From: WWQUINTET
Interesting; I hadn't thought of that aspect. But that wouldn't necessarily be the case, due to their being no direct relationship between physical plane time and essence experience. Cheers, Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 07:40:41 EST Hi Amber, I'm also an old sage in growth, stubbornness and int. part of emotional center, and I spent the bulk of my 20's dragging out college and partying in the Austin clubs. I had a great time and also a lot of lessons (I'm in passion mode too so that added to the drama). I had a very hard time picking a career as well and my majors went like this: computer science, finance, biochemistry, English, and film (think I'm forgeting one somewhere). I had always loved film but thought it was too cool for me or that there was some secret knowledge I didn't have necessary to be in that world (little self esteem problem there!). I did some emotional work, and got right into film school and got my degree in film production and English Lit at the ripe old age of 26. Then I continued to party in the clubs at night and do every job I could find that somehow related to film. I finally broke in and had a good freelance career going when I had to chuck it all at age 34 when I became pregnant - film requires 80-100 hour weeks. So now I'm a 36 year old single mom starting a new career as (shudder) an office drone. But I adore my daughter, and I haven't been to a club in 2 years. I'm dragging out old scripts I started and maybe will finish one one of these days. I guess the moral of the story for me is if you're not sure what you want to do, hang out, have some fun, and explore the possibilities. They say sages mature more slowly due to our wanting to play around. That isn't a bad thing! I get great enjoyment from the entertainment world, and besides the music scene I also loved theater and goiong to comedy clubs (I would go to open mike nights, and they would come up to me and ask if I wanted to go on stage. Old sages just look like comedians I guess!). Growth will lead you down many interesting paths, so not much chance of a dull life. I personally wish that growth would let me have a year off now and then! Martha Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:29:17 +0000 Jeanne Holley wrote:
> Perhaps I am misunderstanding something or perhaps it's a matter of
Yes, maybe it is a question of semantics, and the ego/essence separation is just an illusion, but what an illusion! (Tonight on Fox: Essence's secrets revealed!) For myself, I have to have two names for these things for the simple reason that I experience the will of essence as one distinct and often contrary to my own. It's hard to disperse these concepts into words, but I think for game-playing purposes the ego can only *relate* to essence through its own consciousness. Ego cannot be identical with essence any more than fragments cast from the Tao are identical to the Tao, or a glass of water is identical with the ocean. The same substance, yes, but not identical. A different order of magnitude. If there were no separation, if the ego did not have an independent will, and if there weren't stuff for the ego to do and learn and say that essence alone *couldn't*, then the game would be pointless and cruel, wouldn't it? Dean Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:19:01 +1100 Kenneth, John.-
*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+ Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:24:31 EST Dear Tracy (and anyone else interested) -- I sent the computer file of it to Seth, and it's now his choice as to whether he wants to pass it on, and if he does he probably would take out some parts, based on what he's said. All the best, Ed Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 19:52:23 -0500 Jeanne Holley wrote:
> > Perhaps I am misunderstanding something or perhaps it's a matter of
Dean wrote:
> Yes, maybe it is a question of semantics, and the ego/essence
Kenneth writes: Why are we here on 3D earth with only five easy senses...? To experience the truth of apparent separation from essence, and to experience the real illusion of separation from essence. Semantics can cause confusion or it can make the game more challenging by suggesting that we get beyond our semantic limitations. Many times I too experience the will of essence as distinct and often different from my own will, but you know what... the will of essence always leads me to something better than, and usually inclusive of, my own little will.
> It's hard to disperse these concepts into words, but I think for
Correcto mundo. IMHE the drop does not get lost in the ocean, it re-becomes the ocean. The drop, while it feels separate and apart from the ocean, still is of the ocean, but without the ocean's fullness of being.
> The same substance, yes, but not identical. A different order of magnitude.
The difference in consciousness between essence and fragment must exist order for essence to fully experience physicality and all that that entails. How could we, as adult humans, truly experience little kidness while still maintaining and remembering our adult POVs and experiences? It is an "Amazing Grace" that we can "feel" separated, and still "know" that we aren't really separated. -- Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 20:08:30 -0500 johnpete wrote:
> Kenneth,
I still cannot consciously astral project. I have been trying for many years now. However, now and again I sometimes come to consciousness in the astral without having any idea how I got there or why. I am of the understanding, and experience, that once I come to consciousness in a place or dimension, that I can always go there again... mentally, not astrally. Mental travel is much cleaner, and more comfortable than astral travel. The incident that I described was not of my own conscious volition. -- Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 20:07:33 -0600 Kenneth wrote:
> Why are we here on 3D earth with only five easy senses...? To experience
Kenneth, You must have heard my call for help. You do have a way of rescuing damsels, Sages and other living things in distress. I could not for the life of me, figure out how to say what I was trying to say. Scholars are so clear and concise. Thank you, thank you. Love, Laughter and Befuddledness :-)) Jeanne Holley Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 20:45:49 -0800 Hi, Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 03:09:48 -0500 Mike, my experience of people with a goal Growth is like watching them come upon a big piece of flypaper, recognize for what it is, and then jump right into the middle of it... anyway... just to experience the intensity of flypaper stuckness. This old scholar just cannot fathom how you folks in growth can do this. I am in total awe and deep appreciation for those who choose this way of growing. My being in the Observation mode with a goal of Acceptance looks at the goal of Growth like "How in God's name can they live like that?" It's my understanding that having a goal of Growth is a very efficient way to cover a lot of experiential ground in a relatively short time. So... thanks a million, Mike, for your Growthness. Hey listers, are any of us Scholars also in the Growth Mode? Are any of us Observation Mode types also in the Growth Mode? -- Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:06:34 -0800
| From: Gloria Constantin
Not unreasonable, IMO, considering it was created from/cast from/begat by the spark, which, for most of us, has "been around the track a few times" (had multiple major cycles) with the corresponding experience.
| The varied and motley screens of one's enneagram number, one's
The Role and casting influence will always be present during the major cycle.(§1) One needs to differentiate, however, between essence which exists for a major cycle and the spark which is eternal. I think of it such that, roughly, essence is to spark as personality is to essence.
| Yet essence is still quite distinctive. Mike H. claims to have a
Reading Michael, I am surprised that an essence's "personality" would be that specific. But there seems to be a great deal of personality present in our astral selves as documented in Michael Newton's »Journey of Souls«.
| Is this because essence is still fragmented on its way to the Tao, (or
Probably at least partly.
| and does it retain the influence of its hundreds/thousands of
Sure; otherwise as you asked, what's the point? Just as a life personality is influenced by its experiences, so is essence (the many lives including parallels of a major cycle) and spark (multiple major cycles).
| Or is there some core personality that existed within itself prior to
You're talking spark here; Shepherd, anything from you on this?
| Does the Tao have a personality?
I would say no to that one(§2), but this leads to something I have been wanting to put out for a short while. I have never responded to religion, and since picking up on Michael this life, have declined to use the term "God" partly because of its religious connotation and partly because it is described in Michael books as being essentially the same as the Tao. But I recently learned that God does exist, and is different from the Tao. God is the consciousness of the universe, as explained in [http://www.Summerjoy.com/RightUse.html]. This page, although its main subject is »Right Use of Will«, contains some basic Michael concepts. So, although the Tao does not have a personality, God undoubtedly does. (§) For references email me privately. Cheers, Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 01:06:40 -0800
| From: "aystroud"
Essence Twin.
| I am in Observation, Growth, Intellectual part of the Emotional center,
Pick up a copy of »The Journey of Your Soul« by Shepherd Hoodwin. In it you will find answers to those questions and much, much more. Cheers, Subject: Re: Growth (1998-10/1012)
| From: Mike Huttinger
That sounds about right.(§1) (§) For references email me privately. Cheers, Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 03:01:16 -0800
| From: Kenneth Broom
Yup, one here. Point of detail - Growth is a Goal, not a Mode.
| Are any of us Observation Mode types also in the Growth Mode?
My Mode is Perseverance with Caution (imprinted). Cheers, Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 05:24:34 +0000
> | Hey listers, are any of us Scholars also in the Growth Mode?
All three here. If you go back to the early postings in the archive, I believe you will find comments about how many scholars in observation there are on the list. John Rogers Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:29:57 -0500 My sincerest apologies to all for labelling "Growth" a mode. I thought I knew better, but at 4:10 am... who knows what mistakes lie in the hands of man? -- Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:47:57 -0500 Hi all Time to de-lurk... I've been lurking for a while because I'm fairly new to the Michael Teachings, however the basic truths I've known for years. I read Journey of the Soul and it didn't just touch me, it smacked me in the head. Never had such truth been so apparent. I've recently been to all the Michael sites I can find and took all the tests that I ran across and I seem to be Old/Scholar/ maybe 4-5-6th level. Not sure. I kinda waffle between the three. I'm 37 and at 35 my world opened up to me. Been in a serious upward learning spiral ever since. I'd love to learn more, so if anyone out there has any words for me, I'm wide open! cindi Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:25:12 -0800 Huttinger wrote:
> Hi,
Mike, I've really enjoyed the discussion on essence and personality. That issue is something I'm struggling with right now. I can't help feeling like a puppet on a string (essence being the puppeteer), and I'm striving to move beyond these feelings of separateness. This discussion has been a nice synchronicity for me. Mike, next life I think we deserve a life of tropical beaches and (insert beverage of your choice), don't you? Love, Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:27:07 EST I am a scholar. Is it possible for a scholar to be an artist, or do the two just not mesh? I mean, I know, of course anything is possible. Is it likely? I feel like both, but am trying to really discover who I am as opposed to who I have always thought I am. I have an artisan ET, perhaps art will only draw me to him/her. But I do feel like I am an artist of some sort... I am new too to Michael, and am wanting to learn more about being a scholar. Seems like there are quite a few on here! Hello! Also (of course more questions...I am trying to contain myself) what does eccentric level mean? Thank you to all for possible answers, and for past postings. Very nice. Guess I may have been lurking a lil bit too! ---- Kris Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:39:58 +0000 I think I remember reading in Messages from Michael that Leonard Da Vinci was a scholar. Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 21:53:06 +0000
> Hey listers, are any of us Scholars also in the Growth Mode?
Surely you mean *goal* of growth, in which case count me in: role = Scholar True to form, I generally throw myself in at the deep end of new situations, just to experience it, and then study what happened later. B a r r y Date: Wed, 11 Mar 98 00:09:46 UT I'm a Mature Scholar in Growth and I liken it to wanting to go somewhere, and there is a hedge of thorns between us and there, but we don't care, we bust on through. So there we are, scratched and bleeding, and we don't understand why everyone else is taking so much time to find an easier way around - I mean yeah, there might be one, but why waste the time, the cuts will heal! P.S. I got my email issues all straightened out and changed my password, thanks for all the advice on how to do that, next time I'll READ THE INSTRUCTIONS! Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:52:18 EST Hey there Barry -- I just found that I am a fifth level mature scholar too, with the idealism! Hooray! Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:53:06 -0800 <snip>
> I've really enjoyed the discussion on essence and personality. That issue is something
Also for me. Once I found out I had an essence I told it that in the
next lifetime it was going to be down here and I was going to take its place
with appropriate beverage in hand (smile). Michael laughed and said everyone
says that though I am not trying to speak for anyone here. I can sometimes hear
my essence. He interviewed me just before I met my wife about what kind of woman
I wanted to marry. My wife remembers the essence to essence contact we had
before getting married and she said it was more of an agreement thing as opposed
to the romantic notions we have here. Date: Tue, 10 Mar 98 19:00:46 -0700 Dear Amber
> Also, i am curious to know if anyone knows the particular > fields of work old soul sages usually excel in.....
You may have opened up the MTL comedy central. How about:
Talk Show Host on local community access channel
I'm sure there are plenty more. Take care -- Ted Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 11:34:35 +0200 Hi There All, I have not been responding to the mails as I usually do but now I'm back This week I received a notice from the World Unity and Service Trust and the message on there was just so beautiful that I had to share it with all of you.
THE GREAT INVOCATION
Love & Light Carla Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:02:48 +0800 Huttinger wrote on 10/3/98 5:43 am:
> Hi,
Hi, I am being channeled as 3rd level Old (coincide with my own guesstimate) with Growth (which surprised me -- I couldn't get it by going through those questionaires). My own validation is that I am always look for activities of 'stimulations', with respect to my curiosity and sense of wonder. Including seeking to develope psychic abilities, though so far I have yet to see any result. Anyway, as a Sage, my career choice (right now) is a musician. But I suspect career choice has more to do with True Work and True Study. Perhaps it is my Reserve Mode that has me more "stabilized" and no career or job change. (or I just prefer a more stable financial income - or Pragmatic Attitude) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:16:01 -0800 Hey come check out my webpage and the Michael Teachings and the students
forum! See you there? Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:49:05 -0500 (EST) Thanks Ted for the career choices ! Are you a sage too? What do you do? Right now i am thinking either film, acting, music, or business. Amber Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:54:05 -0500 (EST) Thanks Dick for the imfo! Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:43:50 -0800 come visit me through lori's MICHAEL CHANNELS AND RESOURCES, under "otterly
blue's view" or, I think, at Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:24:24 +0000
> I am a scholar. Is it possible for a scholar to be an artist, or do the two
Hooray! I just thought about my current experience of being a Scholar with idealism. Every time I write something (here or anywhere) I expect it to be the final word, 'cos I know, see? Everyone simply HAS to understand my crystal-clear god's-eye view of life. As for eccentric level - the fifth in any cycle is supposed to be "eccentric" in that it's a stage of "acting your age" playfully and expressively (in our case, playfully and expressively being mature Scholars). The 5th level is thus a Sage-like level, although the mature cycle is Scholar-like, which makes it pretty interesting for us. According to Michael, being a mature 5th-level Scholar means that my life task is to accumulate and convey knowledge in a fun way. However, my Sage-iness is pretty repressed at the moment. I know in my heart it's what I'm struggling to bring into the open. My ET, another Scholar, is likely to be born as one of my children in the next couple of decades, and I seem to have an agreement to be his/her mentor in this life. I suspect that could be my catalyst to really fulfil the fifth level. By the way, I'm a bit of an artist. I was born with very good drawing & painting skills, which presumably I've developed in previous lives. Right now, though, I'm a research psychologist, writer and retreat leader. I rarely use my art. B a r r y Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:37:37 -0800 I am obviously a clueless cyberpunk! How can you visit me if you don't know
where I am!? COME SEE the BLUE at: A michael page and then some! Subject: Re: hello
> > Also, i am curious to know if anyone knows the particular fields
Amber: You could also become a GODDESS IN TRAINING and when you are old enough "NAP SUPERVISOR" Love and Laughter :-)) Jeanne Holley Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:58:45 -0800 Leonardo DaVinci. Role: Artisan, Perspective: Teaching, Center: Intellectual, Attitude: Skeptic, Mode: Observation, Goal: Growth, Dragon: Stubbornness, Influence: Scholar Scholars can be any occupation (as can any of the roles). The ET has strong influence as does the casting (especially when they are different from the role). Imprinting and the person's life task and other overleaves have significant influence on what a person might "do" in their life. Even if the person doesn't have an artisan overleaf anywhere, they might have a pillar related to artistic endeavors. Barbara Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:17:04 +0000 Well, here we go with the channel/filtering issue again... From _Messages from Michael_, page 147 in my copy: "The second is a fifth-level old scholar in the observation mode with a goal of growth, a skeptic in the emotional part of the intellectual center with a chief feature of stubborness. "This fragment was the artist and engineer Leonardo Da Vinci, a man who was very much out of his time." John Rogers Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:32:04 +0000
> Kenneth writes:
Which begs the inevitable question, THEN WHY BOTHER?!? (Not that I disagree; I simply question the sanity of this arrangement sometimes.) There's just one more thing that doesn't sit well with me, and that's this 100% pure frosting approach to essence contact. It doesn't always feel so loving when it comes to you via fate, rather than consciousness. That is, how many times does essence seem to arrange some staggering new event in a person's life and basically leave the ego to feel the heat and mop up the mess? Deus Abscondus, baby. And in those feelings of anger or envy, poor self-esteem or self- destruction, in those places where the body offers symptoms or gives way to illness, and in those times when we've reached the very edge of our ability to cope and are overcome by events, I wonder, are those not moments of essence contact as well? In other words, essence must also appear to us as that which we have not yet loved. ...Or at least that's what my fortune cookie said this noon. Dean Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 02:36:23 -0500 Good to hear from you, Dean Dean wrote:
>> Kenneth writes:
Why bother...? IMHE it's because essence desires the experiences of its fragments. We as fragments are extensions of essence sent to experience Physicality and its partners: Emotionality and Mentality. This desire of Essence is sometimes called the "True Path" or the "Path of Light." How can we as fragments know when we're on our True Path... this kind of knowingness starts when we stop seeing our selves, and each other, as physical beings with spiritual senses, but as "Spirit Beings" that have put on clothes of 1) physical senses, 2) emotional senses, and 3) mental senses. In my book readings Michael stresses this point very often. It is oh so easy to forget what we really are, and to lose the objectivity our true-self-awareness in the subjective physical/emotional/mental exigencies of the game we were put here to experience.
> There's just one more thing that doesn't sit well with me, and that's
Essence contact means little if we ignore it. The unpleasant stuff we may experience was not arranged or created by essence. We, as beings not paying attention to essence, create this stuff ourselves by not following our heart-center inner prompts that essence quietly shouts to us to show us where our true painless path is. Having to clean up our messes is karma. Most times we don't even bother to listen or pay attention to our "still small voices."
> And in those feelings of anger or envy, poor self-esteem or self-
I tend to view these feelings and symptoms as reactions to our not being or doing what we came into physicality to do. ...the results of our straying (accidentally or intentionally) from our true path. ...the results of our egos (self-centered-ness) wanting to do something that is contrary to what we were put here to accomplish. We are essence clothed in flesh, not flesh filled with essence. The POV makes all the difference in how we and essence experience physical life.
> In other words, essence must also appear to us as that which we have
Yes, yes, yes. ... that which we have not yet accepted as the essential us (of essence). We as hu-mons tend to love our three lower aspects of beingness, and pay relatively little attention to our essential selves.
> [clipped]
-- Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 03:42:22 -0500 Whether we perceive ourselves, and each other, as Human Beings or Spirit Beings, or both, makes little difference in our innate tendency and ability to create whatever our thoughts and words and actions we give energy to. This process of creation is automatic. This is part of what Don Juan Matus cautioned Carlos about the path of a warrior. Be careful of how, where, and what you do with your energies. All and any of our thoughts, words, and deeds become manifest depending on the energy given to them. If you like something or hate something, that something is receiving energy from your liking and your hating. It will manifest in your life. Anything manifest still requires energy to remain in existence. Without sufficient energy to be manifest and remain manifest the creation returns whence it came. This is called entropy. So... if you want something in your life: envision it and give energy to your vision. And... if you want something to not be in your life: withdraw all energy from it, and focus your energy on whatever it is that you do desire. Master J.C. is said to have said "Resist not evil." We are fragments of essence, and sparks of TAO, enclothed in ego, flesh, emotions, and mind stuff (chittam). We, as ego, can follow essence or not, whichever we choose. If we choose to not follow essence then should we blame essence for not helping us? ...and should we blame essence for the "stuff" we get ourselves into? IMHO: it doesn't make any difference whether we place blame or not. Placing blame about something just gives more energy to what you don't want. The rules stay the same: stay on your essence path as best you can, clean up your own karmic messes, and have some fun. :>)# The Happy Scholar sez "Follow your path as best you can, have fun, and flush the toilet behind you." P.S. It seems we hu-mons do a lot of toilet-flushing, eh? Wonder why!? -- Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 01:28:01 -0800
| From: Kris
I would say it is not unlikely.
| I feel like both, but am trying to really discover who I am as opposed
You will be influenced by your ET, especially if your ET is not on the planet. Also, if you have not completed your internal monad 4, you will not have fully manifested your Role so your ET's influence may be relatively stronger. (That is what happened to me, as I also am a Scholar/Artisan.)
| I am new too to Michael, and am wanting to learn more about being a
I suggest you get »The Journey of Your Soul« by Shepherd Hoodwin and »The World According to Michael« by Joya Pope for some good info about Scholars and a whole lot more. As for "eccentric level" - I'm not sure what you mean as that is not a standard Michael reference. Cheers, Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 02:46:50 -0800
/ From: Dick Hein
Well I guess ol' dummy here forgot about -
# From: Barry McGuinness
Duh! :-/ Cheers, Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 02:47:18 -0800
| From: Kenneth Broom
As I understand it, we as physical beings are not fragments of essence. Rather, essence is a fragment of our Entity which is a fragment of our Cadre and on up the line. When Michael speaks of fragments they are speaking of essences.
| We are essence clothed in flesh, not flesh filled with essence.
This, IMO, is a *very* thought-provoking statement.
| The POV makes all the difference in how we and essence experience | physical life.
I'll dwell on this for a while; thanks for bringing it up. Cheers, Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:59:53 +0000 Otterley! Just checked out your website and saw that you're another Cocteau Twins fan. Music from heaven or what? It really thrills me and opens me up, and as for Liz's soaring voice - sometimes I weep. (But... looking at their website recently, they seem to have virtually broken up...) B a r r y Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:23:55 EST In a message dated 3/12/98 8:42:49 AM, Ken Broom wrote:
<< Whether we perceive ourselves, and each other, as Human Beings or Spirit Beings, or both, makes little difference in our innate tendency and ability to create whatever our thoughts and words and actions we give energy to. >> I have been thinking of lot about this dynamic as of late... especially about the concept of "choosing" verses "wanting" something in ones life... Often I find that in the idea of manisfestation, I discover an element of want if I look closer... and as you said what you energize comes to life... in this case I am left "wanting" what I wish to manifest... My exercise of late is to become conscious of those times in which manifestation came as a result of choice... It is very subtle, and I feel that when we think of Energizing, we think of something larger than life and with effort... It seems to work best with the simplest energy and no waifer-thin piece of doubt... an element I find can easily lurk in the dark.
<< If you like something or hate something,that something is receiving energy from your liking and your hating. It will manifest in your life. Master J.C. is said to have said "Resist not evil.">>
I seem to recognize this after the fact, because my body sends chest pain signals of the energy drain... yet, I desire to not have that thought in the first place... being aware of the origin of thought vs. the result.. These concepts have been difficult to bring into words, yet I would greatly appreciate some feedback, although I do not know the question I am asking... at best that may be what has been your experience in regards to manifestation, and the thought processes that are condusive to this... Thanks, Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:54:55 -0500 Dick Hein wrote:
>> Kenneth wrote:
Absolutely correct. And I sense the similarity here as me-as-Essence has cast out several individual parts/fragments of itself as my incarnations. These include the Greek Fisherman Me, the Romanian Rabbi Me, The Lady Seamstress Me, The Medieval Knight Me, The Electronic Systems Engineer Me, and all the dozens of other Me-Incarnations. When I allow myself to see myself as Essence putting out extensions/fragments of myself, I become much more comfortable with the Kenneth Broom me, than I usually am when I see myself just/only as Kenneth Broom, the Human Being. The Essence Me has a much much broader, deeper, and clearer view of my life than does the Human Me. It was not me-as-Kenneth that did the incarnating, it was me-as-Essence that did the incarnating, thus producing an extension/fragment called Kenneth. Regarding my loose use of the word "fragment": It is in my everyday lexicon, and Michael has no objection to my using the word "fragment" the way I did.
> > We are essence clothed in flesh, not flesh filled with essence.
My statement is just my paraphrasing of Michael's statement: "You are spiritual beings, on a human path." to be found at the top of Lori's Michael page at "http://members.spiritweb.org/michael-teachings/index.html" I cannot recall, book and page, exactly where it originated. Maybe some of the list members can tell us, book and page, where the statement originated.
> | The POV makes all the difference in how we and essence experience
Thanks for the thanks, Dick. :>)# -- Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:14:33 -0500
:>)# The Happy Scholar sez "Follow your path as best you can, have fun, and flush the toilet behind you."
Possible Answer: Because one's waste becomes anothers' fertilizer for growth? I have been on this list for just a couple of weeks now, and just want to say how grateful I am to read and learn from all the messages posted. This type of sharing of knowledge is wonderful. I thank you all. I recently had my overleaves channelled. I am an artisan in caution mode with goal of growth and attitude of pragmatism. No soul age was given, but from reading the books I figure I am beyond young. I have tons of questions. Because I have studied Astrology, and other systems, I am constantly relating things. There was a discussion about old souls learning thru terror. Astro speak cries out, "Ah Saturn", the symbol of old age and wisdom, while at the same time the symbol of Fear. Goal of growth: in my circumstance I have to relate it to the mode of caution, which long before coming across the Michael Teachings, I had perceived myself as someone who had to "jump off the cliff of safety", screaming and clutching all the way, just to get anywhere in life. By the way, the first book I saw, Otterly, did not attract me either. Are you refering to the Yarbro PB with the Quija board on the cover? Funny how I ended up buying all of them, did not remember, but when I finally started to read the first one, and realized there were more, I had them on my book shelf. I have read Journey of the Soul, by Newton and related to the "alone soul growth part." He talks about it, and before that, someone had told me about it in a past lives reading they had given me. I am probably trying to cover too much ground here, she says as self dep kicks in :-) But a couple of questions if anybody has any imput; say if I belonged to the same entity as a "Hitler" for example, how would that effect things? like learning, Karma etc. I guess what I am trying to explore is how what a fragment learns contributes to the whole. One of the things that I felt when I truly embraced reincarnation, was that quote, "Therefore the grace go I." That thru my lives I probably made all the mistakes, that this ego would find totally reprehensible, especially so when one studies history. I probably raped and pillaged with the best of 'em. Now I am this vegetarian who cringes when I see a cattle hauler go by on the expressway. One more question. What is the meaning of the caps at the end of a post like INFP that Kenneth writes? With much appreciation, Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:36:10 EST Dear PJ -- As I get it, what you are saying is that having thoughts of resisting or hating, etc., leads to chest pains [heart-chakra signal in some way] or other feedback that reminds you that such thoughts lead to undesirable manifestation; therefore you would like to find a way not to have the negative thoughts in the first place. Here is my feedback, sort of good all-purpose new-age bromide, maybe, but very workable for anyone, any time. When you make a choice that is aligned with essence's purpose(s) it feels good and is a source of both clarity and energy. (Of course the magnitude varies with the importance.) When you make a choice that is counter to essence's purpose, it sooner or later will feel less good or lead to some degree of confusion and/or energy drain. It is good work to learn to detect the difference in feelings and energy that go along with alignment and misalignment with essence purpose. (And the difference between those and the large majority of choices that are more or less neutral with respect to purpose.) When you can recognize these feelings or energies you become quite good at getting very fast confirmation of "right" choices or negative feedback after "wrong' choices. Then, broadly and for anyone, look at all aspects of your life: people, places, things, activities, groups, beliefs, etc., and how they feel, and, as much as you can, move to incorporate more of whatever has the strongest positive energy feedback. Move to reduce or eliminate whatever has the strongest negative energy feedback. This is pretty much what "Creative Visualization" by Shakti Gawain is about. Even if you do it only partially, it still can make a substantial improvement in the quality of what she described as the cloud of thoughtforms that surround each of us. We think tens of thousands of thoughts daily, most of them repetitive and habitual, and they form a cloudlike fog that influences our vibration greatly. If you do anything that leads you to have more positive thoughts and fewer negative, your vibration picks up and you attract corresponding nicer vibration in manifested life. So if you add beauty to your surroundings and clean up dirt and neglect, you feel better, and similarly if you spend more time with people that you really feel good about and less with those who leave you energy-drained. Any of these changes will improve your overall vitality and your ability to make further refinements. The better you're aligned with essence's purpose(s) the more easily you manifest whatever supports you. Essence is all in favor of this and will definitely pull strings to help you move toward whatever essence's preference (or "your place in the divine plan") is. All the best, Ed Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:08:09 -0500 Said one sock puppet to the other: I don't know... sometimes I question whether there really is a HAND. Thanks to Mike Peters and "Mother Goose & Grimm" -- Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:17:37 -0500 Terror Sharon said:
There was a discussion about old souls learning thru terror. Astro speak cries out, "Ah Saturn", the symbol of old age and wisdom, while at the same time the symbol of Fear.
---------------- This evokes some major amazement from me! I'm an Old, and fall of 96 I was asking/begging for more knowledge. I felt I was stuck and wanted some type of insight that I was somehow failing to see. Starting in December, I decided to start to take chances because a friend of mine was shot down - dead just when his life was starting to gel. Life is worth living, eh? This past spring, on May 4th I went skydiving for the very first time. Talk about TERROR!! sheesh... Hanging from the wing of a rickety Cessna at 3000 feet in the air isn't exactly my idea of fun (at least not then!). The terror started as soon as the plane left the ground. It was my first plane ride since I was 12 and on a 747. As my friend so gently put it: "It took two twirls (circles around the field) before they managed to convince her to do it." The thing is, when I was hanging from that strut, it occurred to me that I was putting ALL my faith in God. Every bit. Nobody but God was going to see that I made it down alive. No one but God was going to see that the parachute opened. Once the chute opened and I could breathe again, I looked around and it was soooo beautiful and peaceful up there. I wanted to fly forever! I fell off that strut in totally the most wrong position a person could come off in. I was on my back, arms and legs askew and screaming like a banshee was after me. I know, because my friend videotaped it and we caught that image and blew it up to be able to view it. They could hear me screaming on the ground, that's how terrified I was - and I'm not a screamer. Ever since that moment of total trust in God, my spiritual life has blossomed to the point of amazement. My prayer for 'more' was answered, but in order for it to come about I had to trust that I wouldn't be let down. I guess the point of this is... just that you have to trust. Not so much faith even though the two may seem similar, but total and absolute trust. Faith is a belief; a noun. "1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, an idea, or a thing. 2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. 3. Loyalty to a person or thing." Trust is an action, a verb. "1. To have or place reliance; depend. 2. To be confident; hope. 3. To believe" American Heritage Dictionary. Just my two cents on terror! love, Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:53:42 -0500 PJ wrote:
> In a message dated 3/12/98 8:42:49 AM, Ken Broom wrote:
I'd suggest trying to observe when you use the word "want" to mean "desire", and to start small instead of with something larger than life (if I understand you correctly). The simplest energies require less definition/visualization, and so you can more easily observe those wafer-thin pieces of doubt within yourself, and thereby fill them with light and release them to Spirit saying something like "Begone. I have no further use for you." And then move immediately to some other activity or line of thought. Do not wait to see what happened to the piece of doubt, for the desire to see if it is there will bring it right back to you. This is really interesting and subtle stuff, and can be energized BIG TIME or just a collection of small time rooty poot stuff. On whatever level... this stuff works.
> << If you like something or hate something,that something is receiving energy
Much inner tension is carried in our lungs and parts of our torsos. By my saying the word "Peace" and simultaneously exhaling deeply, I long ago formed the habit of releasing energy-draining and counter-productive thoughts and emotions. Your chest pains are good warning signals. What happens in my chest, when I'm about to do something that is counter-productive to essence desires, is an instant feeling that my "soul" is going to cry any moment now, and there also comes a silent buzzing around my head. It's like "Oh shit, I'd better not do this." After enough practice in inner listening and outer toilet flushing one comes to the point wherein one becomes Don Juan's Warrior. Listening and flushing become ingrained ways of perceiving and inter-acting with life. You listen because you know that essence knows best. You flush because collected karma weighs too much and is too bulky and can be very distracting. The Happy Scholar sez: "Better to listen and not have to flush so much, than to ignore the inner voice and overwork your toilet." -- Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:12:41 -0500 Sharon wrote:
> :>)# The Happy Scholar sez "Follow your path as best you can, have fun,
I gotta think about that. Thanks. [clipped]
> One more question. What is the meaning of the caps at the end of a post
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development, and outplacement per Kenneth: INFP means Intraversion-iNtuition-Feeling-Perceiving are my primary preferences in relating to life. There's other stuff on the internet about Myers-Briggs and Keirsey-Bates if you want to search for it) -- Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:46:57 -0500 If you do a shareware search for Myers Briggs you will find a site that has the shareware software for type indicating. It's very good. I'm an INFJ and an old soul as well. Another thread? cindi Date: Thu, 12 Mar 98 22:58:18 UT Dean wrote:
That is, how many times does essence seem to arrange some staggering new event in a person's life and basically leave the ego to feel the heat and mop up the mess? Deus Abscondus, baby.
I've concluded that my essence must not attach the same judgment my personality does to events; what I think of as painful or unpleasant are simply interesting experiences to my essence, and also part of the full gamut of life. If we wanted no pain, we'd have stayed with the Tao. (When you've got a goal of growth you've got to rationalize things, otherwise it hurts too much.) - Jody Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:07:24 -0800
> If we wanted no pain, we'd have stayed with the Tao.
I remember Michael mentioning that an essence could be "kind" about
choosing what experiences we have here. It is my perspective that we create
reality with our thoughts at least to some degree. What this means as I see it
is that if I focus on thinking about an unpleasant experience I am likely to
split off a parallel where that experience happens. In that light, it means I am
an essence for some of the other parallels I have created at least in terms of
some of the experiences that happen there.. Staying focused on only pleasant
experiences requires discipline for me. Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:18:17 PST
I've put the edited copy of the channelling online on my website (which
------ Thanks to Ed Hamerstrom for reminding me about this channeling. I found it in my closet, read it over and had a glimmer to put it online, but didn't follow that. He ended up finding a copy at his end on an old floppy, and wrote about it to the Michael mailing list at Spiritweb, which I took as a helpful nudging sign to get this out there. Editing this was very hard, in trying to find balance between private info and stuff that feels more general, I've tried to err on the side of caution, and felt free to trim as needed, and especially when my gut told me the original channeling grew fuzzy (toward the end especially) Trimming often (but not always) indicated by ..., and I haven't indicated what was trimmed, but I feel the stuff left speaks for itself. As for who is coming thru in this channeling, it's my essence, or higher self. My essence referred to itself as a They, since according to them the varied perspective they had was far more than an 'I' could adequately describe. But it was still one essence, just many views all held at once. My story about channeling is interesting, and I'm sure that one day I'll write some more about it, and how I started, what I did, why I stopped, and so on... but this stuff pretty much is a stand alone, and right now, I feel it's fine as it stands. Thanks go to Ed, Fay, Shepherd, Kent, and others I'm sure I'll think of after this... Love, Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 01:24:01 EST Ken, I have to say that you have been on a very good role. All of you have been putting out wonderful text. The material must be good when this Sage shuts up and listens. All ears, Dan (loving life and pizza) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 03:57:18 -0800 Dan, I'm with you on this...... (but of course this sage usually can't speak any way...:-) I've been sitting here reading all the great material that has been coming through the list over the last week or two or three or so on.... and finding myself talking to the writer and the rest on the list verbally/mentally smiling and saying bravo!!!!! My growth is in overload yet my Essence is loving every tiny morsel of energy and flow pouring out from all that is. Whew!!! I can feel you strumming your music while many of us tap our feet.....:) Hugs (cause they can cause connections) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:03:05 EST In a message dated 3/12/98 5:36:10 PM, you wrote:
<< When you can recognize these feelings or energies you become quite good at getting very fast confirmation of "right" choices or negative feedback after "wrong' choices. >>
This seems to be after the fact... after the fact it is very clear to me... I am still interested in becoming clear of the point of origin of thought, to make the choice at that point... Thanks for your feedback. Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:08:34 -0800 Ken, Barbara Taylor Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:21:36 EST Dear PJ -- As far as I can tell, thoughts just happen. They seem to be like the outputs of a computer we have that's constantly at work in the background working on figuring out whatever problems and concerns are on our ego's minds. Sometimes we can get into a nice meditative state where we are able to reduce or stop this activity, but when we do so it isn't by giving orders like "do NOT think about THAT!!" or "don't think any thoughts at all." It is more an overall progressive relaxation where thoughts come up, you acknowledge them and let go, and gradually they stop coming. There is nothing wrong with any thoughts you have come up. They aren't either positive or negative, they just are. We get problems from _judgments_ or _considerations_ about thoughts. These are secondary thoughts which include negativity as self-invalidation. For example, "why did I think that?" "why am I obsessed with that?" "I can't control my thoughts the way I should in order to manifest abundance or whatever." My advice would be that when one of these self-judging thoughts comes up, simply note that it came up and say to yourself that you don't prefer to dwell on negative self-judgment, thank you very much. This is like what Michael called "photographing" in the Yarbro books. By noticing your negative poles in action you can achieve some freedom from some useless automaticities or habits. As to controlling your thought-generator function so it only produces useful and positive thoughts and so it only recommends choices that are right and not mistakes: again, 1) the output of the intellectual center or mind or whatever you call it is a valid and useful part of our multidimensional construction. 2) It's easy, and okay (in the sense that just being easy doesn't invalidate this, there isn't a "should" that things need to be difficult!) to decide to change, in your mental computer's program, the underlying thoughts or beliefs upon which all the negative self-judgmental considerations are built. In other words, just decide that, at a deep level, you choose that, and you choose that it happen quickly, in perfect order, and without your needing to be involved with the details. Ordinarily one won't get to integrated peace and enlightenment by any sort of dry intellectual logical process or computer programming. It happens through a clearing out of old stuff stuck in the instinctual and emotional centers (in Michael terms) or in the lower chakras of the body. There are many methodologies, and breathwork practices accelerate their effectiveness. At a certain point in all of this you may see that you don't need to control your thoughts. Sorry to give you an unsolicited lecture or to suggest that you're too focused on the mental when I don't know anything about you. All the best, Ed Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:35:25 -0800 To everyone and TO BARRY! It's so great to see an actual Michael fan and Cocteau Twins fan already
combined!!!! For those of you who haven't visited my website
(http://member.delphi.com/otterly) please explore the music of Cocteau Twins
along with Michael. It is truly inspired by the Buddhaic Plane! there is nothing
like it. I will have a site completed over the next week entirely devoted to the
metaphysical implications of Cocteau Twins, their music, the Quadrant formed by
them (including LucyBell) and some comments on their future as Michael sees it.
I've gotten all of their charts and an explanation of Elizabeth Fraser's impact
through her vocals. For those of you who have not heard them, this woman is a
true SIREN. She sings phonetically, in spontaneous, made-up languages, in
pormanteaus (sp?), and when she sings pure english, there is still a heavenly
twist. A hint about Elizabeth's Michael background: She's from the Fourth
Entity; the one that's almost all cycled off, hence the otherworldliness? I will
have lyric translations at my geocities site in no time. Anyway, thanks to those
visiting my MICHAEL SITE! and it's been updated with Q & A yesterday! Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:16:53 -0500 Hi, PJ. It has been a major challenge for me to not get upset or distracted over the mind chatter that sometimes just wanders... and... rambles... though... my... mind..., and at other times seems to just RRROLLL though my mind like some big weird vocal thunder storm. All of this mental sturm und dreck was put into our beings by past conditionings (as well as past-life), past and present sensory inputs, present-day judgements and prejudices, as well as present-day worries about the future (the what-ifs). If you look carefully at these tapes as they run through your mind you'll notice that the more annoyed you get the more annoying they become. Now what does this tell you about energy management? Ignore the f--kers, and they die of entropy. How do you ignore something that's already powerful and insistent...? Just look at them straight in they eye-bones and tell 'em that they have no power over, or in, your life. Fill them with white light and give them over to Spirit. And then you move on to something else immediately. Now here's where you can do some really interesting growth work, if you want. Try talking to those thoughts, and ask them where they came from and why they are in your mind. Find out as much as you can about each thought and its origin before you fill it with light and give it to Spirit. You can converse with any head thing just as you would talk to a person, but take note of the non-verbal communication cues as well as the verbal cues. Head stuff can communicate in some weird and interesting ways. There's no sense in fussing about their existence because that's a done thing already. Just quietly flat out refuse to feed their existence. When you catch a piece of mind-chatter after it has just showed its ass, then suffocate it, and deprive it of the, mostly emotional, energy it needs to keep on living. Getting pissed off at it just feeds it more energy. One trick is to unhook your emotions from the words in your head that aren't yours. Just look and observe these head-words without talking back to them or arguing with them. They cannot be ignored, and will slowly disappear. Another little trick I've learned is to look for the silent spaces in between the words that are running through your mind. Pretty soon the silent spaces become longer and more frequent, until when you want silence that's all you'll get. per Michael: You as Essence, that's who. You as the extensions of essence, that's who. Try to remember who and what you really are. You are not your bodies. You are not your emotions. You are not your minds. You are immortal fragments/extensions of essences who themselves are immortal fragments and extensions of the TAO. Lacking this full SELF consciousness allowed you to become limited and unfocused in your self perceptions and diffuse in your conceptions of self-identifications. Those of you who are angry and frustrated at your human limitations have the ability to use the energies of your angers and frustrations to set free within your selves the FULL SELF CONSCIOUSNESS that you know deep in your precious beingness that you are heir to, and deserving of. Neither TAO nor Essence desires or requires your pain and discomfort, but will make use of it while "you" choose to live within it. -- The Happy Scholar sez "Hmmm." -- Date: Fri, 13 Mar 98 23:46:55 UT Mike H wrote: I remember Michael mentioning that an essence could be "kind" about choosing what experiences we have here. There was a bit in one of the Yarbro books too where Michael says that we can learn just as well through joy as through pain, but since most of us trust the lessons we get through pain more, we tend to choose that way to learn. I've been wrestling with this one! It's true that I think my lessons have to be hard-won - is that part of having a goal of growth? (I'm doing acceptance or observation next time!) Anyone out there made a successful transition to manifesting lessons through
joyful experiences instead of painful ones? ------<--{@ Jody (ENFJ) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 98 23:52:19 UT Kenneth wrote:
Your Hein sight has provided me also with some thought for food.
"Hein Sight"... hey I like that... if you don't mind. It's a good description of your personal clarity and precision, which I respect very much. And Dick ever makes a web page, he can call it the "Hein Site." Ar ar ar - dogs love trucks, Scholars love puns - Jody Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 19:03:15 -0600 Jody wrote:
> There was a bit in one of the Yarbro books too where Michael says that we can
Jody, I think if you would carefully study some of your past life (just in this lifetime) you would find some milestones that you reached that brought you satisfaction and even joy. IMO sometimes we do not recognize the lessons that we learn through joy. Often we just feel that when something wonderful happens to us we don't deserve it, or we will lose it, and unfortunately when we allow those negative belief systems (and we all have them), to rule us, we then destroy the joy ourselves and our Ego says, "See I warned you!" When we achieve something we need to recognize what incredible "spiritual beings" we are and tell ourselves, "Of course, this is as it was intended to be." We not only learn our lessons in joy, but we radiate that joy, and it, in turn, begins to help others seek to learn their lessons in the same manner. I believe that this is what the story of Christ was about. Jesus the Man, Jesus Christ, the exalted man, Christ Jesus, the recognized Master. And the story, IMO, was to give us something of a roadmap for our own Soul Growth. I sure use a lot of commas, don't I???????? Love, Laughter and Learning Through Joy, Jeanne Holley Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:33:01 -0800 Jody Bower wrote:
> Mike H wrote: I remember Michael mentioning that an essence could be "kind" > about choosing what experiences we have here.
Hi Jody, This may sound a little pollyanna, but I feel that at least in this life,
alot of my lessons have been learned via the good stuff. Mostly what I would
call unconditional love on the physical plane??;) The love a feel for my
children, is a continual source of amazement to me...It just feels sooooo good.
The Michael Teachings let me realize that the physicalness (ei truly enjoying a
hug, letting in envelop you) of this experience is part of the lesson, so go
ahead and enjoy. Before I kinda thought I should be going after something more
spiritual, more enlightening, more SOMETHING. So I'm thankful for that. I know,
I know alittle mushy! Please excuse...I'll try to have more grief next life, but
do I have to?? Take Care and Namaste to All Cindy Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 20:50:48 -0800
<snip>
What a neat idea. I have heard of abraded overleaves that make things worse but not the good kind as you suggest. I hope you are right. Mike H Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 00:18:14 -0800 Dick Hein wrote <<<<<As for "eccentric level" - I'm not sure what you mean as that is not a standard Michael reference >>>>> in response to another post. This caught my attention because in a session with Caris Turpen, Michael said this in reference to my being a 5th level old Sage: "... fifth level old is eccentric level, creative level, using all the pieces and parts of the age in order to do all that you need to do. Fifth is dancing time." Amber asked about sages and Jody has brought up the growth issue. I've got the growth thing going this time also, with power mode to back it up. I posted this much earlier on this list but I really liked the response Shepherd Hoodwin posted, so have included both in case they may be of interest: I wrote:
> Michael tells me that "a large portion of [my] life task has to do with
Shepherd responded:
> Growth and power seem perfect to me for that task: growth keeps you seeking
And, he is quite correct. After his post, I looked back on some of the things I've done... I've always been pretty good at whatever I've *fallen into* as employment in this lifetime, whether it was building computers, or programming them, caring for children, drawing portraits, or run-of-the-mill office work. Inevitably, what has happened at whatever job I'm at is that I end up training, teaching, or organizing and that "power amplified voice" is what makes the difference and leads me into growth and modest success. In another session with Michael, again courtesy of Caris Turpen, the following dialogue occured as I tried to pin down my task a bit better. ============================================ I have an incarnate scholar et (female, in PA, age 43... if you're out there, sorry for the recent sagey anxiety), and scholar casting, and a tendency to hide out in those scholar tendencies. The trouble for me has always been an inability to directly recall the many things I've studied in my life. I so admire our scholars, like Dick Hein, who can get you to chapter and verse directly. I've always seemed to turn information into feelings and colors and sound and it all becomes this rather lumpy mass of non-specific "knowing". Now, I can see that that is exactly the "assimilitive" nature of the sage and I leave the footnotes to the scholars! Anyway, at age 37, I've gotten the worst of the 4th internal out of the way. I no longer fuss about being a "jack-of-all-trades", now I just let it happen and try to move into "growth through joy" regardless of the physical path I walk. Kathy. Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 00:28:32 -0800
| From: "Seth Cohn"
Thanks very much for making this available. Besides having good overall Michael info, there is also interesting stuff WRT Scholars and how essences work. Very good material IMO. Cheers, Dick Subject: Re: Scholars love puns (1998-10/1069)
| From: Jody Bower
Sigh... Yes, they do! Up to a point, that is. :^) Cheers, Dick Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 03:38:55 -0800 Hello listers, Since setting up my references mailing list one month ago I have pondered the wisdom of that action. This was brought about in part by thoughts I received in correspondence. It is my perception now that there were multiple reasons objections were raised to my quoting published material. The main one, perhaps, is that information in books is old, dated, not up-to-date. While this may be true to a degree, I feel that much of the material is so basic that it is effectively timeless. I generally hold the view that information, once validated, continues to be valid unless refuted or updated by newer material (itself validated, of course). An example of this would be the information about the consciousness of the universe I recently posted. Another reason some readers may be uncomfortable with quotes from the early books is that they feel they are beyond that in their perceptions. While this may indeed be the case, I think it is of benefit to be aware that there are (perhaps many) people on the list who don't yet know much about the teachings. Most of those readers, for whatever reason, did not request to receive my references via email. Citing quotes gives them a chance to see references from some of the books and other material to sort of whet their appetite and help them understand some of the principles these discussions are based on. It may also be the case that some people are uncomfortable when newer concepts, perhaps their own, disagree with more established ones as documented in books. In the end it comes down to personal verification. As we all know, after *choice* the thing Michael stresses most is *validation*. One correspondent put it this way: "The books are a jumping off place for most of us and [are] useful to study." What I want to try at this time is putting the references as footnotes at the bottom of my posts where all can have access to them. Those who don't want to read them can simply not scroll down that far. I'll use essentially the same format as I did in the emailed version. Cheers, Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 03:39:00 -0800
| From: Huttinger
We probably do it both ways, depending on the situation (life task, etc.). Recall that essence desires to experience it all.(§1) Cheers, [--------------------<*>--------------------] §1 -
[T]rue personality--or the overleaves--is a device that allows you
--- M1 = »Messages From Michael« / Chelsea Quinn Yarbro In marking quoted material, the marks »text« represent italics. They will usually surround those portions containing the lesser amount of material. Occasionally they will demark italicized material within the quote. The following table shows nominal markings for each title - M1 = Michael »Other« === Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 03:39:05 -0800
| From: Kathryn Neall
Heh! A good set of notes helps. :^) But it doesn't come cheap - I've spent hours trying to find a single quote (sometimes unsuccessfully).
| I've always seemed to turn information into feelings and colors and
Possibly caused by emotional centering?
| Now, I can see that that is exactly the "assimilitive" nature of the
Uh, I should think Scholars would have an assimilative nature as they are on the Assimilation axis. Sages, OTOH, have Dissemination as their positive pole. And disseminate they do! They just don't get all bogged down with the "data shuffling" typical of Scholars. Cheers, Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 08:56:13 -0800 I wrote:
I've always seemed to turn information into feelings and colors and sound and it all becomes this rather lumpy mass of non-specific "knowing".
Dick Hein responded:
Possibly caused by emotional centering?
Not at all, I have intellectual Centering, moving part. I wrote:
Now, I can see that that is exactly the "assimilitive" nature of the sage and I leave the footnotes to the scholars!
Dick Hein responded:
Uh, I should think Scholars would have an assimilative nature as they are on the Assimilation axis. Sages, OTOH, have Dissemination as their positive pole. And diseminate they do! They just don't get all bogged down with the "data shuffling" typical of Scholars.
OOOPS, you got me! Used the wrong term. I meant that leaving the details behind is part of the "synthesis" process of the sage as opposed to the assimilative process of the scholar. ````````````````````````````````````````````Dick, Thank you for including the footnotes on your posts. I'm one vote in favor of having the information there in your posts, however you so choose to do it. It seems that right now it's all I can do to get through with the posts. I, however, have been equally comfortable with the CQY works as with the more current things and am ready for whatever information comes up. Kathy. Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 08:54:23 EST In a message dated 3/13/98 5:41:13 PM, Ed wrote:
This is like what Michael called "photographing" in the Yarbro books. By noticing your negative poles in action you can achieve some freedom from some useless automaticities or habits.
I like this idea, it says to me that objective observation is a powerful tool of release. I hear your saying that the emotional attachment or comments of the thought can energize it, and thus possibly bring it to life. I have been thinking of accessing a wisdom beyond the mental. And I find that with some thoughts, my body responds with a "NO!". At that point I will play with the thought and sort of "try it on" until my body responds with a joyous "YES!" of energy flow. I then make a choice....
In other words, just decide that, at a deep level, you choose that, and you choose that it happen quickly, in perfect order, and without your needing to be involved with the details.
Thanks, you have just put into better wording my question.... At what point is that choice made? Where is the deep level? Would you say that it is also made in a Objective observation mode? My experience has been that I will "think" I choose something different, only to feel that I have only done so on the surface, as if I did not quite make it down to the "deep level". Getting there can be difficult, I feel I may not have the clarity, discipline, patience to access this level at times. Or that there is some existing attachment of some kind... ie judgment, fear, want, of which I am not yet aware. Again I will say that my interest lies in being aware of the origin of thought. I feel that we produce our own thoughts and at the origin of the thought we make choose from a myriad of possibilities. I guess in a way that is "control". But, "control" seems more like a mental, judgmental function, than what I believe I am speaking about. Ed, I want to thank you for your feedback... this is a topic I need to explore right now, and this newsgroup appears to be the best venue for that... your postings have been very thought provoking. thanks again. PJ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 07:41:14 PST Dick Hein gave me the wonderful compliment of: Thanks, Dick. Coming from a consumate scholar like yourself, that is so validating. I respect your opinion, as you usually have reflected much of my own views regarding things Michael. (BTW, my take on the whole 'posts too long, or too quotey' is :-P to them, I love your stuff, including the quotes which I miss seeing. Everyone else, Yes, regarding all of the talk lately about Essence and abrading overleaves and all of that... there is some material in this old stuff about all of that. the URL again is http://www.nyx.net/~scohn/chan90.txt Love, P.S. Only 2 people so far have checked out http://www.planetall.com and joined the group for Michael there. Remember if you DO sign up (it's free) MENTION me in the right place (Scohn) and help me manifest an airfare to visit a friend of mine. I'm a POOR old soul otherwise. Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 12:28:16 EST Dear PJ -- As to how or at what level the "deep" level is (in making a deep or profound choice)....it is beyond mind and thoughts. It is prayerful. (That is one good English word.) It implies a desire and intent to open up to essence (God) and connect and align self with essence/God. Prayer works, really well both with regard to "results" and "positive side effects", and is very easy, in that there isn't any learning of technique involved as in medtitation practices, etc. It is easier when we discard the old religious baggage whereby we might regard it as begging for something from an arbitrary God up in the sky. (It's easy and logical on an ego/pride, young soul basis, to resist submitting to any sort of external authority.) But God, or that which answers prayers, is our own essence. The essence is able to involve other essences and various beings, agencies, and abilities of higher planes in ways we probably can't understand and don't need to understand in order to facilitate whatever the answer to prayer is all about. The "side effects" of strengthening one's essence connection are wonderful and need to be experienced to be understood. Hope this helps.... All the best, Ed Hamerstrom Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 13:11:32 EST Dear Kathy -- My "take" on this sage and scholar, assimilation and teaching, #4 and #5 thing is (just to add my unofficial thoughts on it).........first, assimilation need not involve remembering words and ideas well; that's a specialized ability. I'm a thorough scholar, but my assimilative process goes to the assimilation of the essence of things rather than not-necessarily useful details. I can't remember words of songs or poems or jokes or quote exactly what someone said a few seconds ago. I long ago gave up on trying to assemble a mental file of the ideas various philosophers, writers, teachers or wise people have given out. Instead, my assimilation computer keeps a sort of dictionary of brief entries of these people (so-and-so was an ancient Greek philosopher, Herman Melville, an American, wrote several books in the mid-1800s including Moby Dick, etc.) just so I can know what someone who mentions these people is referring to. I really don't care about or want to devote much "disk space" to what anyone said. I do want to know the meaning and concept behind every new unknown word I encounter if it has any possible relevance or use to my work as an old scholar/teacher type. Though I can't remember words of quotes, etc., I have a super memory function for assimilating people's names, geographical locations, age, and specifics like phone numbers and addresses......if there is some potential purpose for the information. But if I look at a page of the phone book I'll assimilate the essence of what's there without any remembering of specifics. The essence of the experience was that I looked at a page of the phone book. I think all of us remember, or store, memories of experience and information according to our considered and/or felt potential need for it in the future. If we are old souls (having a #5 teaching function) or sages (the same) we might well set up our early lives even up to 4th monad in order to assemble the material we teach or communicate about later. (Lots of old souls have lives with difficulties and challenges early that they have to rise up to get through, leading later to teaching or helping others to get through the same challenges.) "Growth" has always seemed to me to be a rather stupid choice of word for the #6 goal, since _everything_ anyone does can be regarded as growthful in some way. It's too unspecific a word. Does anyone have a better one? Can someone pin down in words exactly what Michael's concept of the #6 goal is so that we could identify what aspect of the general word "growth" they are talking about? All the best, Ed Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:23:11 EST Ed, what an excellent post. Sums up a lot of concepts that I agree with very much (I'm an old sage in 'growth' with scholar casting, so I can relate). If I get a minute between chasing my toddler and trying to make a clean spot in my house I want to try and think of a better word for the goal of growth. Martha Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:33:43 -0600 Jody Bower wrote:
Jody, I thought "Hein Site" was the home page for Heineken beer. John Macchietto Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 13:40:54 -0800
"Growth" has always seemed to me to be a rather stupid choice of word for the
Dear Ed, Anyway, it went something like, there is an art to flying (I associate flying here with the goal of Growth.) The art of flying is that you must be able to throw yourself at the ground, and miss! And there was a great deal of distraction involved so that you forgot there was a ground, and that was what allowed you to miss! Then suddenly, you find yourself flying! Gosh, this sounded so funny when I read it when I was a teenager, I loved that absurd kind of humor, but now, either I've gotten some bigger picture or I've totally lost my mind, because it actually makes some sense to me now....hehe.... It certainly explains all the times I've thrown myself at the ground and didn't miss, and yet somehow that was supposed to be some kind of "growth." Guess they don't count the "splat" at the end for much. ;-p Flying.... Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 16:43:58 -0500 How about "Intensity" as a more accurate term for the goal of "Growth". -- Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 17:22:47 -0500 Kenneth Broom wrote:
> How about "Intensity" as a more accurate term for the goal of "Growth".
I suggested "Intensity" because of Michael's response to a series of questions on Soul Age presented on Shepherd Hoodwin's web site at "http://www.summerjoy.com/SoulAge.html". To quote one sentence "Intensity of experience determines whether it is sufficient to cause a movement in soul age level." Peace and Light to You and Yours, |
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