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Spiritweb Michael List
1998 - Week 9


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THE POSTS:

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 02:03:15 EST
Subject: Re: um...what is this "IMHO"?

In a message dated 98-03-02 00:09:02 EST, Kris writes:

 

<< Sorry...new to the whole mailing list thing...and I don't do chat rooms too often. In Most However something? It Might happen something? Guess I'm not too good with o words... >>

 

Well, it can mean several things:

Insects Make Horrible Omlettes
Innards Might Heave Oatmeal
I Miss Humping Otters
I Make Hippos Ovulate

But most likely it means:

In My Humble Opinion.

Dave


Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 02:09:41 EST
Subject: Re: Oh yes, one more question...

In a message dated 98-03-02 00:19:00 EST, Kris writes:

 

<< What does it mean when someone has made a choice to be alone in this life?
I feel that I must have, on some level. But I don't know why. >>

 

Perhaps a change in an anti-perspirant or deodorant is required. Of course, if you're presently alone, maybe you've discovered the true secret to enlightenmet. Most couples I've known, especially of the married persuasion, always swore to love each other, but now they just swear. ;-p

Dave


Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 00:02:28 EST
Subject: Yahoo!

I have great news. I got enough money that was owed me to pay two whole mortgages!! I feel very relieved. And it's all thanks to Dave. Thanks for paying me back, Dave. Just kidding. (Dave still owes me thousands of dollars he spent on all the hard drugs.) Really kidding.

I'm on cloud nine. We all know about the 9 needs. How about the 9 clouds? I'm on the cloud of 'I'm saved' for the moment.

Thank you all so much for the love and the humor that gave me a saving perspective. I cried, I laughed and it felt really good. Being touched by the love and laughter of people is one addiction I will never give up. I know I'm driving the scholars nuts with all this mushy stuff. So what about the Edgar Cayce comparison on the four pillars? Any opinions or info?

Danny Boy


Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 09:00:39 -0800
Subject: Re: Yahoo!

Dan--I'm so happy for you. Look what you've manifested! Speaking for myself only, as a Scholar, I don't mind the mushy stuff at all. In fact, I love mushy stuff sometimes.... I think it's when we really feel, that we are really alive.... For me, my favorite feeling, is being in love.... I suppose it's either my spiritualist attitude or my addiction, maybe both! Thanks for sharing real-life stories. Those are my favorite kind....
 

Love from a person who's just a hopeless romantic,
Lori


Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 22:34:43 +0000
From: Barry McGuinness
Subject: Re: Digest No. 1998-03-03 of Michael Teachings List

 

> I know I'm driving the scholars nuts with all this mushy stuff.

 

C'mon Danny -- what about all us scholars with emotional centering? I'm just sitting here taking it all in...

      Barry,
      Bath (UK)


Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 17:27:39 -0800
From: Kathi Lawder
Subject: Yahoo! -Reply

 

>> I know I'm driving the scholars nuts with all this mushy stuff.

 

Not this scholar, who lives in the intellectual part of the emotional center! :)

Kath


Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 23:51:52 EST
Subject: Re: Digest No. 1998-03-02 of Michael Teachings List

Hi Kris-
I have found in the channelings I do that aloneness, heaps of people, or one long marriage all tend to be pre-planned. You can bet that if you had set out to complete tons of karma this lifetime there would be plenty of relationships and intensity......Or if you had set out to study relationships by being in them neck deep, you would be. By not being so involved it gives you more chance to introvert, putter, take a breather, be independent and self- validating or do self karmas and worry about your life and growth. Life on the planet certainly seems to be more roundly satisfying when we are mated--and yet you know the hassles.

every lifetime has a lot to offer essence, lots of interesting experience to assimilate and many positive aspects--even if it's all spent in some seemingly limited way like in prison or mentally retarded.

The big trick seems to be valuing what you have and yourself in the moment.

PS-Just cuz something (eg marriage) isn't pre-planned doesn't mean you can't get it, but it's not going to fall in your lap and while your personality might be longing for something and chasing it, essence is holding out for just the experience you are having.

I am rushing, hope this makes sense.

Blessings,

Joya


Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 00:38:03 EST
Subject: Pinch Me

I am very grateful for all your love, caring, kind thoughts and humor. I hope I can support and think well of you if the occassion should arise.

I learned that chosing to think positively was more important than lining up all the facts of how I was being screwed. What I think is what I will feel. Therefore I encourage myself to think nicely.

What I need from a community is what I need in my family: the patience to let me be wrong, the compassion to hold my hand when I'm suffering from being wrong, the shamelessness when I realize I'm wrong, and the dance of joy when we all become right: a family.

Spiritual survival is love, family, friendship and community. It does not mean we all sleep in the same bed or in the same country. There are many different thresholds to our hearts. Let's knock on some doors.

How could I not want all your love.

Dan


Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 07:42:04 EST
Subject: Re: Pinch Me

{{{{{{{{{{Dan}}}}}}}}}}}}

Glad things went your way! You know I been there, man. Things are pretty okay here, paid off some bills with the tax refund and I have two job interviews today. I don't think of myself as someone who dwells on being screwed, but I thought about what you said and realized I am doing just that. Yesterday I added up February and figured that I spent over $1000 (daycare, insurance, medical expenses, shoes, etc) on my daughter, while her father contributed $200. And of course I did 100% of the parenting, he saw her for 45 minutes last month. It's hard, hard, hard to let go of that one. I hope I get a better job and earn more money and can LET GO of feeling resentment towards him. And the growth dance goes on and on....

Love,
Martha


Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 01:15:14 EST
Subject: Pinch that SOB

Martha,

Your situation is much different from mine. I was just talking to JP and she is handling her obstacles the opposite I do. In your case you might need to put your foot down and make sure your estranged takes care of his end of supporting Morgan. In my case, I could clearly point to mistakes that were because of me.

I think our lessons might be different. I will not advise you to roll over and play dead. Sometimes you have to make a tally in order to win support from friends, neighbors and judges in courts of law. Morgan needs you.

You might release your resentment for your Ex best when he pitches in his fair share. You could be using resentment as courage to demand what is right for your daughter.

I love to be philosophical, but I must be practical and realistic in your case. Do the right thing even if it means getting ugly. Embrace my la-di-da perspective for your heart's well being, but go for the balls when it comes to survival.

Martha, of all the people on this planet you have a right to be a little pissed-off.

Love, Dan

P.S.: Remember to be fair on visitation and equal access. I know you are.


Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 14:17:56 +0800
Subject: Re: Digest No. 1998-03-04 of Michael Teachings List

 

> I know I'm driving the scholars nuts with all this mushy stuff.
>
> C'mon Danny -- what about all us scholars with emotional centering? I'm
> just sitting here taking it all in...
>
> Barry,
> Bath (UK)

 

Perhaps not all of us old scholars with emotional centres have quite come to terms with actually having an emotional centre....

Sonny
(Hi, Seth...)


Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 08:30:25 -0700
Subject: Hello from Idaho

Hi, I'm new to the listserve although I've been a Michael student for about three years now. I'm a 4th level Mature Scholar, goal of growth, emotional part of intellectual center (plenty emotional, believe me, Dan, but then that's what Mature level is about . . .).

Anyone else out there from Boise or nearby? Feels like I'm surrounded by Baby souls here.

The question I'm wrestling with now is: how much of my sense of self, what I'm talking about when I say "I" or "me," continues on between lives? Is my essence participating when I say "I," or is it mostly observing the antics of this personality from a detached place? I'm really wondering how much of my present self will be remembered or carried on, I guess . . . is this making sense? Any wisdom from all you Old folks out there would be most appreciated ------<-{@ Love, Jody


Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:39:53 EST Subject: Re: Live or Die?

In a message dated 98-03-05 10:46:08 EST, Jody writes:

 

<< The question I'm wrestling with now is: how much of my sense of self,
what I'm talking about when I say "I" or "me," continues on between lives?
Is my essence participating when I say "I," or is it mostly observing the
antics of this personality from a detached place? I'm really wondering
how much of my present self will be remembered or carried on >>

 

This is a very important question for obvious reasons. I've often wondered about this topic, and have found Michael's teachings to be somewhat vague in this area. If the personality is absorbed at death by our essence, then death is still a real issue for all of us, and we have just been the lab mice of some higher being. However, I know that Jane Robert's "Seth" has said that the personality lives on to explore its own evolution. Also, there is a fascinating book by Rosemary Brown called "Unfinished Symphonies" that detailed how she communicated with great composers like Liszt, Chopin, Mozart, Bach and others. These composers dictated new compositions to her that she transcribed and later played for many musicologists and composers. The works she transcribed were deemed authentic by the majority of the musicians who heard them, including Leonard Bernstein. If there is any truth to this, I think it would confirm that the personality does survive death, and does not become absorbed.

Dave


Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 17:10:47 -0800
Subject: New web page

Hi everyone--I've just updated my Michael Teachings page to include some of my spiritual experiences that people have asked me about. So if you're interested (the documents may be a bit long) check it out.

Peace,
Lori


Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 20:07:05 -0600
Subject: Re: New web page

Lori,

I read your stories and was grateful that you put them out there for us to read. However, you have convinced me that I'm not supposed to channel in this lifetime. If someone tried to come through me (other than a higher entity) I would probably be frightened to death. I commend your courage for being willing to repeat such an experience. I also read Shepherd's statement in "Journey" regarding the commitment one must make to become a channel and I have the utmost respect for those of you who choose to set aside other tasks to undertake the endeavor.

Thanks again,

Love and Laughter :-))

Jeanne Holley


Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 23:33:33 EST
Subject: Re: Live or Die?

As to whether the personality is absorbed into the essence after death....both yes and no, as in all good paradoxes.

What Dave says is true; but also, eventually, the astral personality goes through its evolutionary process to a point of completion and integration where it rejoins the essence. 1) This is a happy event; and the personality that does this still continues to exist in some way as a beingness within the overall essence. 2) It might take a very long time if the personality gets stuck in some lower astral hell, but time is also very long and the integration WILL happen. 3) It may well be that "going to the Light" as in descriptions of near-death experiences is a representation of this process.

That is my impression of how this works.

All the best, Ed


Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 23:55:18 EST
Subject: Ed returns

Dear All -- My previous computer died a few weeks ago and I have been offline except for a few visits as "guest" on AOL to look at the mail. It looks like you have done quite well in my absence and the list keeps growing.

I'm now in Ashland, Oregon, in a little cabin way up on the hill which I've coveted for quite a while. The last time I visited I found that it had become available and in fact the ad was going to come out in a short while in the daily (afternoon) paper. Yes, I was interested. My friend got three calls from the ad in the first fifteen minutes, so I committed and took the place. The same day I went shopping for a new computer. There was one model of Toshiba notebook that had been marked down from $1999 to 1199. I came back three days later after looking in California, and expecting that model to be gone, but they had just the display one left and marked down $300 more to 899!! Somebody up there seems to like me, as they say.

I'm on a local ISP (which gives away Netscape Communicator Pro 4 on a CD) and probably will get off AOL before the higher rates go into effect next month. I'm putting as much time as I can into exploring the computer and HTML and creating a website scheme of all my interests.

Love to all, Ed


Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 08:59:26 -0800
Subject: Re: New web page

Hi Jeanne!
I guess I just do these kind of things "for fun." Strange way of having fun, eh?....Must be some sense of adventure for me. But with good intentions I hope.
Channeling isn't for everybody, but I hoped to convey that it's not something that is hard or that you have to be "chosen" to do. It's just another choice in life.

Thanks!

Love,
Lori


Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 13:32:05 PST
Subject: Jots from a scholar

Just a few quickies... and a freebie request.

1) I used to live in Idaho (Pocatello to be exact). I loved it a lot, but yes, the population is a bit baby souled. :)

2) Hey Ed! Long time no see, figured your computer finally died. Not suprised you bought the computer or the cabin. :)

3) Hey to the rest of you who said hey! BTW, if you haven't checked out www.planetall.com, it's a pretty nice (and free) place to track down people you've know over the years. I created a Michael Teaching group on there, and only a few people have ever joined. If you DO log on to try it, use me as a reference (scohn) as I'll get frequent flyer miles and I'm trying hard to manifest a trip to Australia... I figure if I can get everyone and all of their friends to join (and use me as a reference), I might just get a free trip that way. I get 100 miles for each person... no pressure though, as I said, it's a nice service anyway...

Love,
Seth
scholar in the background...


Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:53:04 EST
Subject: Personality vs. essence on the other side

 

> The question I'm wrestling with now is: how much of my sense of self,
> what I'm talking about when I say "I" or "me," continues on between lives?

 

I am awestruck that this whole subject is being broached now, because it was part of the topic of our Michael Study Group on Wednesday, very much on my mind, and apparently, very much in the mass consciousness right now. James Van Praague, whom I've met, a psychic medium from Southern California, has shot to overnight fame. He's been on several tv shows, and his new book, "Talking with Heaven," is on the top of the NY Times non-fiction bestseller list.

About nine days ago, both my friend Rachele Rhodes and my step-mother Harriet Hoodwin passed over (within an hour and a half of each other), and I've been communicating with them and others a great deal these past weeks. It's something I've been able to do in the past but it didn't come up much; now, it's in sharp focus.

I could write reams about this subject and my experiences, and I'd like to in the future when I have time.

I have no doubt that the personality endures. Some traits fall away quickly, particularly those that were relatively on the surface and stemmed from the body, such as body type traits. Another example would someone who was depressed or grouchy because of ill health--upon passing over, with the cause eliminated, that aspect of personality also goes. How a person would really be if not under the stresses of physical life is what emerges.

Deeper soul-level traits or issues, though, remain, as well as the personality's basic style (way of talking, etc.) If a person has tended to be critical, blunt or dismissive, for example, for the past three lifetimes, that will not change overnight. People do continue to grow on the other side, though, so when accessing someone who has been departed for a while, you wouldn't expect him/her to behave or view things exactly the same as they did when alive. For example, people often think that the man Jesus is the same as he was 2000 years ago, but it stands to reason that he's grown and changed a great deal.

People are sometimes in shock and often need time to process when they first pass over, but some higher awareness can immediately resurface simply by reason of what is obvious in their new environment. The guides and loved ones of those who had deeply entrenched beliefs about the other side may recreate their picture of it when they first depart (such as the pearly gates of heaven) so they won't feel overwhelmed and confused, but the "stage sets" come down as soon as the person is ready to see the reality.

All the best,
Shepherd


Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:04:41 -0600
Subject: Re: Personality vs. essence on the other side

 

>> The question I'm wrestling with now is: how much of my sense of self,
>> what I'm talking about when I say "I" or "me," continues on between lives?

 

I don't know if this is applicable here but the Michaels told me (through a Channel) the following: "Remember that your 'essence' is indeed YOU, and serves as the part of you that is not limited by the physical plane existence.
There is no true separation between you (earth bound personality) and your essence. They are parts of the whole, as indeed you as essence are irrefutably part of the whole of All That Is. The distinction between essence and what you perceive as Jeanne is simply the difference between, for instance, that which is a rock and the minerals that make up the shape... In other words, you are YOU, but only part of that is applied in the physical plane context on a day to day level, though the goal of the greater game is to manifest ALL that you are. Not an easy goal, and one that is presented with MANY obstacles, though you have your own awarenesses of which of these obstacles you have overcome, if even only for a second."

My feeling after reading and rereading this and trying to absorb it all, is that the ME that I know in this lifetime is just a small portion of what "I" am. And it seems very exciting to me to know that when I die this time, I will have achieved a little more of what needs to be done in order to return to the "Unconditional Love of the Tao". Hope this makes some sort of sense to those who are concerned about death.

Love, Laughter and Great Expectations :-))

Jeanne Holley


Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 19:06:49 -0700
From: Gloria Constantin
Subject: Essence v. Personality

"Remember that your 'essence' is indeed YOU, and serves as the part of you that is not limited by the physical plane existence. There is no true separation between you (earth bound personality) and your essence. They are parts of the whole, as indeed you as essence are irrefutably part of the whole of All That Is."

I can't tell you how glad I am to read these words. I have been having a struggle lately trying to distinguish between essence and personality. I want essence to be in charge, but I can't always tell who's out there. It's cool that personality goes on to evolve and transform after bodily death, but for right now, I'd like to hang with essence's plans.


Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 18:11:23 -0800
Subject: Re: Personality living on...

Jody
   The personality gets a little worried when people talk about it disappearing or becoming nothing after death. In fact, it may create all sorts of interesting *noise* to keep us from considering such a thing.
   That said, my sense of it is that when the physical body ceases to exist, the personality gets recorded in the Akashic records where it becomes like a memory or old photo -- retrievable by future selves and others in the entity.

Barbara


Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 18:47:45 -0800
Subject: Re: Live or Die?

    I realized a few years ago that I have some personality traits in common with my higher self. Michael validated that for me. My higher self is a curmudgeon which is also like me. My higher self is working on not incarnating any more and that feels right for me as well.
    Mike


Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 23:31:50 EST
Subject: Re: Jots from a scholar

Seth: Going through my various collection of floppy disks to see what there was, lo and behold, I found Kent's transcript of Seth's Essence at Tony Rullo's in June '89!

(This was a channeling session Seth did for four people, including Fay Goldie, Kent Babcock, Tony Rullo and me. Seth channeled his essence but the material and viewpoint is pretty similar to Michael. This session was mostly about theoretical stuff, and all of us including Seth were first-rate Michael scholars. I'd rate it as right up with the best of Shepherd or Sarah Chambers. The material came through fast but very clear and well organized; I only mention these channels because they are the only ones I'm familiar with the output of in written form. There is a lot of really good stuff that the scholars on this forum would appreciate, including why artisans have five channels instead of 4, 6 or 7. Seth retired from channeling later that year, I believe.)

Seth, do you want to see a copy of this file? If it's okay with Kent (who did the transcription) would you authorize me to make it available to people on this list who ask for it? (There didn't seem to be anything in the transcript that would violate anyone's privacy.)

Love, Ed


Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 21:49:28 -0800
Subject: Essence v. Personality

 

> I want essence to be in charge, but I can't always tell who's out there

 

    I am working on at least having some control. I would also like to at least be aware of what I am supposed to be learning here, I realize that a part of wanting to be aware of this is so I can pick and choose what I learn. That is probably cheating. I was able to cancel an agreement I had for an unpleasant experience but it seemed that I was only able to do that because I (and/or my essence?) realized I didn't need to learn that lesson. I had already learned it.
    Mike


Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 22:19:21 PST
Subject: Re: Jots from a scholar

 

> Seth: Going through my various collection of floppy disks to see
> what there was, lo and behold, I found Kent's transcript of Seth's
> Essence at Tony Rullo's in June '89!

 

The funny thing is I just found my printout of that a few weeks back, and thought about the SAME thing... :)

 

> Seth channeled his essence but the material and viewpoint is pretty
> similar to Michael. This session was mostly about theoretical stuff,
> and all of us including Seth were first-rate Michael scholars.
> I'd rate it as right up with the best of Shepherd or Sarah
> Chambers. The material came through fast but very clear and well
> organized; I only mention these channels because they are the only
> ones I'm familiar with the output of in written form. There is a lot
> of really good stuff that the scholars on this forum would
> appreciate, including why artisans have five channels instead of
> 4, 6 or 7. Seth retired from channeling later that year, I believe.)

 

Thanks for the compliment, even as I cringe. Yes, SOME of the material is good. Some not so. To be honest, I reread the channeling with new eyes when I found it, and wasn't all that thrilled with it. Yes, you are correct, some of it would be interesting for other Michael people. But some of it was private, and some of it (toward the end of the session) I can see how flagged I was getting and the channeling suffered.

Ed, I don't think I have an electronic copy, so if you'd drop me a copy, I'd be glad to trim it down to something that I'd feel good with putting out there...

Actually, Ed, if you ever talk to Fay (I don't..), she had a pile of other tapes, if you ever feel like transcribing any of it.... I recall some other good stuff, mixed in with the not so good.

As for why I retired, long story but in short, my personal path wasn't being served, even though the info was really good.

Love,
Seth


Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 23:14:40 -0800
Subject: New web page

    Lori,
    Thank you for sharing your spiritual experiences on your new web page. Wow, what experiences. A couple of times I have been able to hear astral people who had died. Once it happened at an estate sale and the departed gentleman was taken aback slightly that I could hear him. I also took a Steve Cocconi channeling class. I have also been to classes by Paula Peterson and to some of her channeling sessions. Both classes were over five years ago. I was told by Steve that he and I worked on the technology that blew up Atlantis in a past life. EA said once that the plan is to merge their reality with ours. That is an interesting statement in light of another of EA's statements which is that they are 500 years in our future.
    Mike


Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 00:44:48 -0800
Subject: Review:_Journey_of_Souls

I would like to say a few words about a book I recently finished reading. It is »Journey of Souls« by Michael Newton, Ph.D. My thanks to Dave for his writeup that convinced me to get the book. Shepherd also has a footnote reference to it in »Journey«.

Dr. Newton holds a doctorate in counseling and is a state-certified Master Hypnotherapist in California. In the book he relates a number of cases in which hypnotized subjects tell of their experiences not only of past lives but also during the astral interval. Much of his material aligns well with Michael. But he goes into more detail than Michael does about life on the astral. Some of the conclusions he reaches seem to be at odds with Michael concepts, but that may be due at least in part to the lack of detail in the Michael material and/or his not having the "big picture" view that Michael has.

Due in part to the methods used, I think the material Dr. Newton presents is valid. One of the things I found interesting is the amount of structure and organization involved in the processes occurring during the astral interval. When I gave this a bit more thought, I realized that it would have to be highly organized considering the number of people (using the term loosely) processed. Look at the numbers - 6 billion bodies on the Earth (is that about right? I seem to recall that number), each living 50 years (a rough average to make calculations easier). That makes ~120 million deaths per year. For ease of calculation figure 360 days per year. That's 12 million in 36 days, or 1 million in 3 days, which is over 300,000 per day. Then when you figure the world's population is increasing, you have to add more than 300,000 births per day to offset the deaths. So there are probably about 3/4 million "transactions" per day. That's a *lot* of incarnations to process!

While reading the book I was naturally looking for similarities and differences between Dr. Newton's concepts and the Michael teachings. I found numerous points of agreement, one being soul age. Dr. Newton describes 6 "Soul Development Levels" which appear to correspond roughly to Michael's 5 soul ages plus the 7th level transcendent.

One point of difference is that the book makes no mention of the reincarnational self, that which is related to a specific life and eventually integrates with essence. It seems that what is described in the book is the astral self, which is persistent through one's entire major cycle. Interestingly, the astral self's presence on the astral during an incarnation (or multiple ones) is described; I had wondered about the details of that.

The interviews span the range of soul ages, from the very young to the quite advanced. It should not be surprising that the more advanced souls' perceptions more closely align with the Michael teachings than do those of younger souls.

Another thing I found of interest (it's probably my Scholar that is intrigued by the details) is that one's soul age is indicated by the color of one's light, from white through yellow, light blue, dark blue, and finally shades of purple.

I also found interesting the organizational groupings people are in. What I found disturbing was a seeming lack of choice in some areas. This was not consistent, however; on several occasions the interviewee specifically stated that there is no coercion, that one always can choose.

Something else I found most interesting was a description of the way in which one has access to past life experiences. It is in the form of large books, and the pages have moving holographic "pictures" of whatever experience one has an interest in.

I highly recommend this book to anyone who has an interest in this level of detail. I found it quite fascinating and will be starting a reread as soon as I find the time.

Cheers,
Dick [2.1(3)/5/4.2-144=4.7.3<5.150/M5=26/IME/4.11>]
----------------------------------------------------
Dick Hein / Mountain View, California.


Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 00:44:53 -0800
Subject: Re: Live or Die? (1998-09/970)

 

| From: WWQUINTET
| Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:39:53 EST
|
| In a message dated 98-03-05 10:46:08 EST, Jody writes:
|
| << The question I'm wrestling with now is: how much of my sense of self,
| what I'm talking about when I say "I" or "me," continues on between
| lives? Is my essence participating when I say "I," or is it mostly
| observing the antics of this personality from a detached place? I'm
| really wondering how much of my present self will be remembered or
| carried on >>
|
| This is a very important question for obvious reasons. I've often
| wondered about this topic, and have found Michael's teachings to be
| somewhat vague in this area.

 

Same here - what part of my perception is essence and what part is personality?

 

| If the personality is absorbed at death by our essence, then death is
| still a real issue for all of us, and we have just been the lab mice of
| some higher being. However, I know that Jane Robert's "Seth" has said
| that the personality lives on to explore its own evolution.

 

See my review of »Journey of Souls« for info on this. One question I have is what is the difference between the "astral self"(§1) and the "reincarnational self" as described by Shepherd in »Journey«? According to what I've read, the astral self is ongoing while the reincarnational self hangs around the astral for as long as it wants to after a life, then is integrated into our essence. Also see Ed's comments below.

 

| Also, there is a fascinating book by Rosemary Brown called "Unfinished
| Symphonies" that detailed how she communicated with great composers like
| Liszt, Chopin, Mozart, Bach and others. These composers dictated new
| compositions to her that she transcribed and later played for many
| musicologists and composers. The works she transcribed were deemed
| authentic by the majority of the musicians who heard them, including
| Leonard Bernstein. If there is any truth to this, I think it would
| confirm that the personality does survive death, and does not become
| absorbed.

 

Thanks for this info, Dave. Have any of these works been recorded and made available to the public?

---

 

/ From: Ed
/ Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 23:33:33 EST
/
/ As to whether the personality is absorbed into the essence after
/ death....both yes and no, as in all good paradoxes.
/
/ What Dave says is true; but also, eventually, the astral personality
/ goes through its evolutionary process to a point of completion and
/ integration where it rejoins the essence. 1) This is a happy event; and
/ the personality that does this still continues to exist in some way as a
/ beingness within the overall essence. 2) It might take a very long time
/ if the personality gets stuck in some lower astral hell, but time is
/ also very long and the integration WILL happen. 3) It may well be that
/ "going to the Light" as in descriptions of near-death experiences is a
/ representation of this process.
/
/ That is my impression of how this works.

 

This sounds like the "reincarnational self" described by Shepherd. But the "astral self" stays around to make agreements and set up future lives(§1 and »Journey of Souls«). As to "going to the Light" as in descriptions of near-death experiences, I think that would be the transition from the physical to the astral.

(§) For references email me privately.

Cheers,
Dick [2.1(3)/5/4.2-144=4.7.3<5.150/M5=26/IME/4.11>]
----------------------------------------------------
Dick Hein / Mountain View, California.


Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 07:55:01 -0600
Subject: Essence in Relation to Ego/False Personality

Perhaps I am misunderstanding something or perhaps it's a matter of semantics, but my belief is that we are never separated from Essence, we only believe that we are. Our personalities/egos are always attempting to survive and will do whatever is necessary to keep us in the phsical realm (which IMO is the only way we learn the lessons we have chosen for ourselves). But my understanding was that "reintegration with our essence" is a fallacy because we are never truly separated from it. I know that in times of severe stress I have received from somewhere inside this physical body a strength that I as a physical being do not normally have and I feel that that is "essence" carrying me through. Though at different times in this lifetime I have given "essence" different names. I've only called it "essence" since I became a student of the Michael Teachings.

I know that I read somewhere that the Michaels once said that if we did not have ego/personality there would be no drama in life. And I always felt that "reintegration" was with the All That Is; with all of the other fragments (Cadences, Entities, Cadres, etc.,) for the work that can only be done together to return to the Tao.

Love, Laughter and "Recognition"

Jeanne Holley


Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 13:08:01 EST
Subject: Re: Live or Die? (1998-09/970)

In a message dated 98-03-07 03:45:40 EST, Dick Hein writes:

 

<< Thanks for this info, Dave. Have any of these works been recorded and made available to the public? >>

 

There was a recording made by Phillips, but it would have been released during the early 70's. The best place to locate Rosemary Brown's book these days would probably be at a used book store, or yard sale.
Another interesting point concerning the spiritually transmitted compositions was that the composers had to hark back to their original styles in order for their works to be recognizable. Like any artistic craftsman, they had all progressed as creators, and had advanced to the point where a Mozart would no longer sound like Mozart to us. But for the sake of the psychic demonstration, they reverted back to their old harmonic territory so that their new compositions could be authenticated.
Also, for those who have studied music history, Brown indicated that Brahms usually appears to her accompanied by Clara Schumann, which I thought was neat. And not too surpisingly, Debussy has taken up an avid interest in painting.

Dave


Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 10:12:21 -0800
Subject: Re: Ed returns

ED!!!!! So good to see you back with your cyber connection. Great to feel your essence link in...<s>

Hugs (cause this personality seems to need it)
Diane


Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:25:27 EST
Subject: Re: Ed returns

In a message dated 98-03-07 13:34:21 EST, Diane writes:

 

<< ED!!!!! So good to see you back with your cyber connection. Great to feel your essence link in... >>

 

Diane, do you really think you should talk about Ed's "link" on a public forum? ;-p

Dave (Hugs to you all so I can cop a feel)


Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:22:54 EST
From: Dave
Subject: Re: un-subscription

In a message dated 98-03-07 13:28:11 EST, Valiant Dunkeldäld writes:

 

<< Hi!
I want to cancel my subscription to the michael-teaching-list. Thanx.
Valiant Dunkeldäld >>

 

(Peter Lorre imitation) But...but.....we're not finished with you yet! (Maniacal laughter trailing away...)


Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 16:05:02 -0800
Subject: Re: Ed returns

 

> Diane, do you really think you should talk about Ed's "link" on a public forum? ;-p

> Dave (Hugs to you all so I can cop a feel)

 

What better place Dave!!!!!! :-) You knoooow how much I enjoy a feel or two....Reminds my essence why I keep returning here to try and be part of the whole. What better place to expose a truth about this personality but among those who just might understand. If they don't then so be it, as that is their choice. Want to come and play Dave??

Hugs (cause they can be fun too)
Diane


Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 01:46:17 +0000
Subject: Newton's book and essence-v-personality

 

> I would like to say a few words about a book I recently finished reading.
> It is »Journey of Souls« by Michael Newton, Ph.D.

 

Well, that's amazing. I'm reading this book right now and I was thinking of writing in with exactly the same thoughts. I read the book originally a few years ago, before I was "into" Michael; now I'm able to put two and two together and it makes a lot of sense. Yeh, Newton's subjects who regressed as younger souls really do come across as younger souls, as we'd expect in Michael's terms. They don't see much of the big picture.

Notice also that the subjects describe themselves in the interlife as belonging to two groups: (a) a "primary groups" of 3-12 fellow souls who work together plus (b) a broader "secondary group" of -- you guessed it -- about 1,000 souls.

While I'm here, with regard to essence-v-personality, here's my understanding:-

Essence is who I am. I know that for a fact because I have experienced it directly. I am me, my self, this one who is present, conscious and making choices. There may be far more to my essence than I realise so far, but that doesn't matter, that's who I am. But I am also manifesting a PERSONALITY in relation to others. This is a set of ways of revealing myself to others, ways that are less than fully representative. Aside from a few moments of enlightened contact, I have rarely presented me-as-I-am, the naked essence. What others get is a filtered view of me through the screens of my personality traits. There's nothing wrong with having a personality; the trouble is in identifying with IT rather than my essential SELF. So long as I'm identified with it (rather than myself), I'm going to be defending and protecting it, thinking that it's "me" I'm protecting. (Being on the path, however, is an attempt to make the personality more transparent so that essence can shine through of its own accord.) When we die, as I understand it, the false identification with the body is obviously let go of pretty quickly; the identification with the personality probably less so, depending upon soul age. But it isn't that "you" disappear into a void -- rather, "you" regain your full state of consciousness. You are still "you"... but that isn't necessarily who you think you are!

      B a r r y


Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 08:04:31 -0800
Subject: Re: New Web Page

 

> From: Mike Huttinger
> Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 23:14:40 -0800
>
> Lori,
> Thank you for sharing your spiritual experiences on your new web page.
> Wow, what experiences. A couple of times I have been able to hear astral
> people who had died. Once it happened at an estate sale and the departed
> gentleman was taken aback slightly that I could hear him.

 

Hi Mike! Thanks.... Yeah people who are dead and their spirits are just hanging out are not always in some state of crisis. Sometimes they just like to hang out and watch over their loved ones for a while. I remember when I was pregnant with my son Evan a couple years ago, my mother's neighbors gave me a baby shower, and the neighbor's husband had just died a few months earlier. As I walked through the back of the house I was "struck" by his spirit and it surprised me at first as I said, "Hey what are you still doing here?" I didn't really get words but the feeling was that his wife still needed him and so he was hanging out to comfort her, and he was fine. A deep feeling of compassion came over me. This was certainly not any situation where I would have offered to send him to the light or anything, as I think that would not have been appropriate in that case.

 

> I also took a Steve Cocconi channeling class. I have also been to classes by Paula
> Peterson and to some of her channeling sessions. Both classes were over
> five years ago. I was told by Steve that he and I worked on the technology
> that blew up Atlantis in a past life. EA said once that the plan is to
> merge their reality with ours. That is an interesting statement in light of
> another of EA's statements which is that they are 500 years in our future.
> Mike

 

That's interesting about merging our reality with Atlantis', I wonder if it has anything to do with our being half-way through a 26,000 year cycle of Earth's precession. Actually that will be in 500 years from now....since 12,500 years ago is where the Egyptian pyramids line up with the constellation Orion (Osirus) and they seemed to call this the beginning of their time, Atlantis. Maybe this is when it's astrologically the "right time" for that karma to come up!

For those who don't know, Paula channels a being called EA who is an extraterrestrial from our future, and a group collective of some kind (maybe some cadences is my impression.) They are in another dimension--since supposedly the Earth is ascending towards the 5th dimension, in the next 500 years or so....

Blessings,
Lori


Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 10:26:11 -0700
From: Gloria Constantin
Subject: Essence Persona

I've gotten the impression that essence, sans incarnation, has personality in its own right. The varied and motley screens of one's enneagram number, one's psychological archetype/s, one's astrological delineations, and even essence role when one is wearing a body does not exist for essence at some point in its travels. Yet essence is still quite distinctive. Mike H. claims to have a curmudgeon aspect to his essence, and a good friend of my was told by Michael that her essence tends to be bossy.

Is this because essence is still fragmented on its way to the Tao, (or on its way to another life) retaining the influence and impact of its just completed life, and does it retain the influence of its hundreds/thousands of personalities from previous cycles despite reabsorption by the Tao before re-emanating? Or is there some core personality that existed within itself prior to the first fragmentation that essence carries (or is) eternally?

Does the Tao have a personality? Perhaps these questions are too reductionistic and miss the point. What's the point?


Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 10:08:23 -0800
Subject: Re: New Web Page

    Lori,
    Sorry, I got a couple of sentences strung together in my previous post and it mixed my comment about Atlantis with my comment about EA making it look like I thought there was a connection between Atlantis and EA. I don't know that this is the case though you may be drawing on intuition or information I haven't seen. As far as I know EA is from maybe fifth density earth or whatever dimension earth is supposed to wind up in. I have heard that the 26,000 year cycle is supposed to cause this. Supposedly that is going to happen in 2012?
    Mike H


Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 03:51:13 +0900 (JST)
Subject: Re: Personality vs. essence on the other side

Your posting reminds me about a comment recorded in one of Edgar Cayce's readings alerting about communication with the departed. It says something to the effect that the fact that a person has died does not make his spirit any wiser than while in a living body. In the original there is a touch of subtle humor that I have only found in some channeled messages.

Jose Caldeira

At 22:53 06/03/1998 -0000, Shepherd wrote:

 

> eliminated, that aspect of personality also goes. How a person would really be
> if not under the stresses of physical life is what emerges.
>
> Deeper soul-level traits or issues, though, remain, as well as the personality's
> basic style (way of talking, etc.) If a person has tended to be critical, blunt or
> dismissive, for example, for the past three lifetimes, that will not change overnight.
> People do continue to grow on the other side, though, so when accessing someone
> who has been departed for a while, you wouldn't expect him/her to behave or view
> things exactly the same as they did when alive. For example, people often think that
> the man Jesus is the same as he was 2000 years ago, but it stands to reason that he's
> grown and changed a great deal.
>
> People are sometimes in shock and often need time to process when they first
> pass over, but some higher awareness can immediately resurface simply by
> reason of what is obvious in their new environment. The guides and loved ones
> of those who had deeply entrenched beliefs about the other side may recreate
> their picture of it when they first depart (such as the pearly gates of
> heaven) so they won't feel overwhelmed and confused, but the "stage sets" come
> down as soon as the person is ready to see the reality.

 


Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 18:00:53 -0500
Subject: Father & Uncle Experience

Hi Ladies & Gents of the Michael List:

Both my father, and my aunt's husband, died about 25 years ago.

Now, about 3 years ago, in that dawn zone coming out of sleep, I found myself in the middle astral watching some event that I do not remember along with a bunch of people/forms. As I turned around to get a better look at the people behind me I noticed at the rear of the area that we were in, 2 forms that I "knew" were my father and my uncle. They only just remotely "looked" like them, but they definitely "felt" like them. As I moved closer to where they were positioned their last earth likenesses were fading in and out of clarity in my eye vision, but "who" they were stayed very strong and clear in my inner recognition.

I felt myself sliding into my former feelings of being a teenaged son to the man that was my physical father. As soon as I started feeling this my astral father told me that there is none of that there, and that our father-son relationship does not exist there in the astral.

My astral uncle said that Auntie (his widow) is doing okay without him, and will understand what I've been trying to tell her in her own good time.

They then started fading away, and said that if I needed them for anything they'd be available, although that probably would not happen since I have always been an independent sort anyway.

My point is that each of those two guys had integrated all their individual earth personalities into their individual astral beingnesses that consisted of an "amalgam" of all their other earth personalities. They each are still not-yet-fully-joined parts of their individual essences. They each have other astral stuff to do before they reincarnate again. They care about their earth families, but not in the sentimental way that we would think they do. They have a much much greater picture of our earthly realities, and they are very aware of how we earthbound folks have angels and guardians and our own essences to help take care of us.

It's interesting how the threads on this list keep bringing my personal memories more clearly "back" into focus so that greater comprehension and wisdom can occur. And as these memories become more clearly and consciously integrated into my being, the "Older" my "Soul Age" coat becomes. This is what essence seeks: experience, and its companion, comprehension.

This is also why we all need each other's experiences and posts. We are all offering each other our individual "thoughts for food" for us to use as nutrition to feed our personal growth. Thank you for the food.

TAO Bless us all, everyone.

Kenneth Broom, Columbia, MD, USA
aka I.A.M. Research
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
7th Level Old Scholar, Observation, Acceptance, Idealist,
Emotional Part of Intellectual Center, Impatience. (INFP)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 23:37:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: hello

Hi everyone,
    I have been on the list for about two months, but i have not written that much. Anyway, recently i had a Michael reading done by Joya Pope. I found out that i am a fourth level old Sage with a Scholar sister or twin or whatever. I am in Observation,Growth, Intellectual part of the Emotional center,Stubborness, and a Spiritualist. I was wondering if anyone wanted to describe some more for me, about sages and fourth level old souls. Also i wanted to ask if anyone wanted to comment about any knowledge about any of my particular overleaves. Also, i am curious to know if anyone knows the particular fields of work old soul sages usually excel in, or what a person with my overleaves might do well in ( i am a struggling first year at college, and although i know i should just follow my heart, being a sage and spiritualist in growth, i have millions of interests, and its so hard to choose just one major. i'm tempted to move to California and open up a spiritual bookstore by day/chill jungle club by night by the oceon). if anyone has any imfo it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Peace.

        Swing out,
        Amber Stroud aka Cosmic Girl

 


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