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THE POSTS:
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 02:01:58 -0800
| From: Jeanne Holley
You raise an interesting point - what effects, if any, do earthquakes and underwater volcanoes have on cetaceans? A question for Michael, perhaps. Shepherd - can you add this question to the growing list for your page? Cheers, Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 02:02:07 -0800
| From: Jeanne Holley
Some parts of casting order have a strong influence on how we experience our major cycle.(§1)
| When Dick Hein wrote that he was "just a Mature" Soul and not "an Old
The only advantage I perceive Old souls have over my Mature/5 is increased psychic ability. I don't wish to be older in order to bypass some of the upcoming experiences, although I will admit that I am glad to have already had some of those of earlier times.
| I think it's absolutely wonderful that we have all found each other in
Indeed. We owe a debt of gratitude to René for making this forum available, and to Lori for bringing it to us. Cheers, Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 02:02:02 -0800
| From: Mike Huttinger
To pick a nit - we are not cast =out of= the Tao.(§1)
| A few years ago I heard that casting order can change. Has anyone else
Role and casting order are fixed for the duration of a major cycle.(§2) (§) For references email me privately. Cheers, Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 02:02:11 -0800
| From: Mike Huttinger
Well we definitely are in the minority. There was an introductory post -
Archive of Michael Teachings List (1998-04/644)
...in which Tracy described herself as a "1st level mature artisan."
| I also think this lifetime for me is my first effort to find a spiritual
You might want to confirm that with Michael if you can. Cheers, Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 02:47:03 -0800
| From: Jeanne Holley
Hmmm. Makes sense; thanks for posting. -Dick [2.1(3)/5/4.2-144=4.7.3<5.150/M5=26/IME/4.11>] Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:23:37 EST
> So far Dick Hein is the first mature
FWIW, a majority of my clients over the years have been mature. The same is true for Sarah Chambers, the first Michael channel. I have not observed significant differences in understanding between mature and old souls, although they feel different to me. Mature souls feel more intense and more involved with the physical plane; old souls have a lighter, more objective and casual feel. Having done the requisite work of looking in the mirror in order to grow up mentally/emotionally seems more significant to a person's understand than his/her soul age. IMO, soul age is overrated in importance, although it does tell us what a person's lessons are focused on, which is useful. All the best, Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:38:19 -0500 Only two of us Mature souls here? That certainly surprises me. I wonder why.
I'll throw it out to the group-Why do you think this newsgroup is mostly old souls? Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:56:39 -0800 Shepherd stated: "Mature souls feel more intense and more involved with the physical plane" OOOOoooohhh tell me....<s>. My SO is Mature/5 Warrior...and the intensity can be overwhelming at times. On the other hand it can make for some very interesting play time too. It's a bit eaiser when I can remember that is just the nature of the his soul. Of course my Passion mode can give him fits too. :-) Hugs (cause they feel good) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:22:45 -0800 Hi all, Mike Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:17:04 -0800 Hi All: New girl in town: Date: Mon, 16 Feb 98 12:55:04 -0600 Hello out there, I too am new to this list, and quite new to the Michael teachings (just the last month, or so). I'm told I'm a 6th level Mature Sage. To Cheryl: I think you need to find someone channelling Michael to tell you "where you're at." I'm looking forward to getting to know y'all better! Peace, Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 15:04:23 +0800 At 11:01 AM 2/16/98 -0000, Dick Hein wrote:
> The only advantage I perceive Old souls have over my Mature/5 is increased
I would like to respond only to the above paragraph.... You gotta be kidding -- I am channeled to be a 3rd Level Old, and I have never had any psychic experiences, let alone "ability"... One of the reasons I am trying out sound recordings (courses) from the Monroe Institute is precisely to help me get some sort of psychic experiences. Since about 10 years ago, I started to look into psychic and esoteric teachings, hoping to learn something, like at least be able to see aura. But I only thought I saw aura on one single occasion, and none afterwards. I tend to think that the masculine/feminine energy ratio as well as frequency [range?] reflects the tendency for psychic abilities/experiences. My guesstimate is that higher feminine ratio and higher frequency tends to promote more psychic episodes. But that's just my guess work. I would appreciate if any channelers here can comment on it. (it's like -- geez I wish I can channel, but seems that my skull is thick enough to prevent anything from going through...) :-D Regards. Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:25:36 -0800
| From: Tracy Lubas
Agreed.
| 2. That Old souls are just more likely to participate in a newsgroup and
I should think just the opposite - younger souls are more "fired up" over their discovery while older souls just take it in stride.
| 3. Older souls are more open to information received in unconventional
Probably for the most part.
| 4. Possibly that not everyone who believes themselves an Old soul really is one
I think most who are serious students get confirmation through a channel. That's not to say that everyone correctly states that information. :-/
| I'll throw it out to the group-Why do you think this newsgroup is mostly old souls?
Nit to pick - this is not a newsgroup. As to why there are mostly Old souls here? 1. More older (Old and a few Mature) souls are on the path than are younger souls. 2. The Net is an exciting place to be, and even though Old souls tend to be more blasé about things than younger souls are, there is enough of a draw for them to join in. Cheers, Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:25:41 -0800
| From: Mike Huttinger
That's called evolution or growth.
| Once we get back to the Tao if we were to start another cycle on earth
We probably would not do that. Major cycles are rarely, if ever, experienced on the same planet. What would be the point? The purpose of a major cycle is to do it all, and once an experience has been had there is no point to do it again. The objective, we need to remember, is to evolve, and that means doing new things, having new experiences.
| wouldn't we do early lifetimes where we kill people and cause other
Very possibly (assuming another planet), as your essence would be inexperienced on the new planet and in the new environment.
| It almost seems as if a small part of us starts completely new on the
I think it's more a large part than a small part. The only continuity is the spark; the essence is new for each major cycle.
| I asked Michael once what is the difference between this cycle and the
Likely a different Role and casting order, giving a different approach to problem solving.
| I am paraphrasing here and I hope I didn't lose too much of Michael's
That is essentially correct. We do accumulate experience through successive major cycles. Cheers, Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:25:46 -0800
| From: ennis
Oooh, the "terrible sixes". Lots of karmic payback in the 6th. My TC is 6th Mature and can verify that.
| Mature Sage. To Cheryl: I think you need to find someone channelling
Hey, another Mature! Watch it, folks - we're gonna take this place over! (Well, maybe not right away...)
| I'm looking forward to getting to know y'all better!
As with any group, there are many varied personalities here. Welcome to the crowd. Cheers, Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 01:42:12 -0800
| From: J J Tan
Hmmm. I think what I was referring to is a relationship that is not necessarily reciprocal - most people with strong psychic ability tend to be Old souls but not all Old souls have psychic ability. Therefore the chances of having psychic ability increase with soul age.
| One of the reasons I am trying out sound recordings (courses) from the
They were of virtually no value to me.
| Since about 10 years ago, I started to look into psychic and esoteric
There are books on how to do that. I got one a couple of years ago and, while the techniques they document sound workable, I never took the time to try them (they involve several months of visual exercises).
| I tend to think that the masculine/feminine energy ratio as well as
I think I've not heard that the tendency for psychic abilities/experiences is affected by male/female (focused/creative) energy ratio. At the same time I think those with higher a ratio of creative to focused energy would be more likely to favor the emotional center over the intellectual, giving a better chance for psychic experiences/abilities. The same holds true for frequency - I've not heard it mentioned as a factor in psychic perception. Soul age is a factor, however - psychic phenomena can be disturbing to "early cycle" individuals so essence will normally hold off on those experiences until later in the cycle. There are other factors as well - overleaves and casting order. When essence desires psychic ability in a life it will choose appropriate overleaves. Casting order also has an influence - 6th and/or 7th positions are conducive to channeling the astral and causal plane respectively.(§1)
| I would appreciate if any channelers here can comment on it.
I'm not what could be called a channeler yet although I'm working on it.
| (it's like -- geez I wish I can channel, but seems that my skull is
Hey, don't feel like the Lone Ranger! (§) For references email me privately. Cheers, Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 07:05:21 EST Hope someone can give advice... Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 06:28:34 -0600 If you go to the Michael Teachings Page (Lori Tostado) on Spiritweb you will find links to take the quizzes for Soul Age, Overleaves, etc. That should give you some ideas. The best way is to have a reputable Michael Channel do your Soul Level and Overleaves for you. Jeanne Holley Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 07:27:47 EST In a message dated 98-02-17 03:25:53 EST, Dick Hein writes:
<< | I'll throw it out to the group-Why do you think this newsgroup is mostly old souls?
Plus we can do it without leaving our living room or finding a pair of socks that match. Martha (channeled at 3, 5, and 6th level old) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:00:41 EST Here are some thoughts on the recent soul age thread. --There may be more old souls on this list because old souls are often eager for a feeling of community --Mature souls can be much more "psychically" open than old souls. In my observation, soul age has not been the determining factor there. --also, when people who say they aren't psychic begin to list all their psychic/intuitive/synchronistic experiences they find that they have had many more psychic experiences than they realized. --Mature souls often grasp and express beautifully advanced spiritual concepts that add to understanding by older souls. --I've traveled with a group that was all mature and old souls. While the old souls had a great, rewarding, time, the mature souls had a LOUD fun time with lots and lots of laughter. --John Clark, old 4th (potentially) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:48:40 -0800 There are plenty of mature souls involved with the Michael teachings. It
appeals to the "older" souls (mature and old), not to the younger ones (infant,
baby, young) because it requires a bit of introspection and self-understanding.
Many mature souls have "psychic" abilities as do old souls. Using them is a
choice and depends on each person's life task. Some people don't want to bother
because it isn't relevant, others actively seek out the experience. Barbara Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:40:38 -0800 Barbara, Thanks for your post; valid points succinctly put, IMO. Cheers, Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:20:11 EST In a message dated 98-02-16 04:39:17 EST, you write:
<< I was told I was first cast in my entity and I keep having to
That would be Jane Roberts. I have several of the books she channeled it is the first introduction I had into spirituality but must admit I never really dug in. I really need a place to start. I really love reading this list but don't usually feel knowledgeable to add anything! Glad I could finally contribute! Rona Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:46:54 -0600 I have had the same problem with "Seth". Don't know why, it just seems hard to get into the books. I didn't have that problem with "Messages From Michael" although parts of it made my head spin during the first reading. Several people on the list suggested "Michael, The Basic Teachings". I got it recently and find it fascinating. (Aside to Barbara Taylor: And next month I'm even going to order "Michael Math", even though I've always quit half way through the first page before. Have a feeling Barbara may explain so that even a Math Dunderhead like me can understand), I hope! Love and Laughter :-)) Jeanne Holley Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 15:35:21 +0000
> If you go to the Michael Teachings Page (Lori Tostado) on Spiritweb you will
I recommend studying the material available as mentioned above, then trying to figure it out yourself before going to a channel. 1. You will learn more if you do it this way. 2. You will have some basic knowledge of what the terminology means and how this works which will facilitate a better understanding of what the channel tells you. John Rogers Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:49:41 -0600 Hi John: I took the quizzes and tried to be painfully honest, but when I had my overleaves channeled they were somewhat different than what I got. Guess I wasn't honest enough, huh? Love and Laughter Jeanne Holley Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:10:36 -0600 I need some help from those in the know about attacking Iraq again. My personal feeling is that the US should tell all of the countries involved in this situation, that it is their problem and that we should bring all of our military hardware home and keep it here. But I wonder if by doing "nothing" we would also be creating more Karma for ourselves, if later on many people should die from biological and chemical weapons. I understand that if we do nothing to stop pollution we are part of the problem, i.e., creating karma. Would that apply in this situation? As a child of World War II, I recall how so many countries tried to make deals with Hitler, only to have it all thrown in their faces when Hitler's armies marched on those same countries. And I assure you that there was nothing sadder than to see a Gold and White banner hanging in the window of someone's home with a gold star in the center of it. Would we have had to lose so many people during World War II if the World had taken Adolph Hitler more seriously. I realize there is karma either way, but I am very confused about the karmic "damned if you do, and damned if you don't" implications here. Help! Love and Total Karmic Confusion :-)) Jeanne Holley Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:03:22 +0000 As a country, for whatever reason, we have taken on the role of the planet's police. Hang on, here comes the old neutral scholar... There is no right or wrong, there just is. On the whole, this country is not terribly evolved, and neither is Iraq. It's all part of the evolution. That applies to the individuals involved and the groups as well. John Rogers Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:40:50 -0800 John, This Scholar agrees with your thoughts. Cheers, Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:19:30 -0600 Thanks John, I love Neutral Old Scholars who give me the grounding I sometimes need. The answer makes sense but sometimes my emotions get the better of me and I want to thump these "leaders" on the head. Jeanne Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:03:22 +0000
> I took the quizzes and tried to be painfully honest, but when I
What if you were right, and the channel wrong? I would recommend spending some time with this and try to "feel" which is correct. When this list was young I had my overleaves channeled by two different people and got two very different readings. Everything is subject to validation. John Rogers Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:09:39 -0600 From: John Rogers:
> > I took the quizzes and tried to be painfully honest, but when I
The overleaves channeled (and I was talking to the Michaels) fit much better than the ones I did on the quiz. And my "Essence" picked the channel, who, as it turns out is part of my entity. How did you validate what was right for you? Is feeling comfortable with your overleaves (or uncomfortable when you realize why you do some of the things you do) part of validation. Everyone says "validate" and the best way I know to do that is to meditate and see what feels right? Any other suggestions? Jeanne Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:52:55 -0800 Thanks Barbara!!!!! That was a well put little blurb that I found enjoyable to read. We really appreciate you sharing this and definitely look forward to any future books you've got planned. I never get tired of reading/learning/absorbing the Michael Teachings from every angle possible and you've just added another layer. Good work! As a matter of fact all the information received is worth looking at. How can I know if I haven't experienced and I can not experience what I am not exposed to. I appreciate all those on this list who put forth their ideas, thoughts, opinions and channelings. Now if I could just get rid of this headache from thinking about the vastness of it all. This small human mind sure cannot grasp it. :) Hugs (cause its my reality) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:19:03 -0500
> | I would appreciate if any channelers here can comment on it.
I've actually gone through a channeler's course and channeling is something anyone can do. I imagine it's mostly older type souls who would seek channeling. Basically, it's not your skull that is thick. We all channel every day, in our dreams, intuitions, knowings, etc. To do what you may call "formal channeling" takes a little bit of trust. Some can't do it because they have unknown underlying fear blockages. It's a trust thing to allow access to the spirit world on a conscious level. Once you understand that you are in control at all times, then it is easier. Just a thought that might help. Walk in peace, "If all the beasts were gone, men would die from a great loneliness of spirit" - Chief Seattle Honor all beings. Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:40:46 -0800 Dear Listers, One last thing...thou I enjoy reading all the posting here, I'd really be interested in getting in a study group or something,where there maybe some hands-on interaction/channeling/live conversation. I live in Marin County in the Bay Area of CA, if anyone knows of something like that around Marin I'd be interested...The only one I've heard of thus far is a monthly meeting put on by Emily Baumbach(Which I would have attended in Feb,but alas the rain here has taken its toll,and it was cancelled, I try again next month.) And you thought I would end...Only one last thing, I promise, I'm having trouble finding Yarbro(or any Michael Teachings Books), so if you know of a good book store, place to order...Let me know Namaste to All, Your humble Servant Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 00:50:51 -0600 The Daunt Family wrote:
-----snip-----
Dear Cindy, The way I understand casting, is like dealing a stack of card in 7 piles or stacks. After the first seven are dealt, the 8th card goes on top of the 1st stack and the 9nd on the 2nd stack and over and over until all cards are in stacks numbered from 1 to 7, which is the casting position. That is how I understand it. From my personal channelling, I am in the number one stack, which, gives me a "server" touch to my sageness. John Macchietto Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 00:51:20 -0600 Jeanne Holley wrote:
-----snip-----
Thank you Jeanne, I too had the same concerns and questions that you elequently phrased here. Thanks. John Macchietto Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:29:07 +0800 At 10:41 AM 2/17/98 -0000, Dick Hein wrote:
> | I would like to respond only to the above paragraph.... You gotta be
I think several Michael books have also pointed out that Infant Souls are also more atuned to Tao, or to Nature, thus probably also more psychic. On the other hand, whales and dolphins are channeled to be able to communicate via telepathy. I'm sure some of those are Young Souls, as well, if not Baby Souls. I guess the nature of species makes a difference here in terms of psychic abilities? Just as well, there are psychic human beings who seek out to cause harm to other people, or at least influence others in order to make a gain out of it (to win), a very Young Soul characteristic. I tend to think that psychic abilities are there "across the board" in all different Soul Ages, but since Michael knows better on the statistics, I suppose more of the psychics are older Soul Age. Heck, perhaps I am just trying to say that psychic abilities does not an "Old Soul" make. (any grammar mistake there?)
> | One of the reasons I am trying out sound recordings (courses) from the
Well, scientific experiements did reflected a more synchronized brain wave activities after listening to the binaural sound waves developed by Monroe Institute. If I (or you) gain nothing out of it, perhaps it at least help me... "think straight"? :-) I have personal experiences with those sound, and can say that, while I did not experience any psychic episodes, I do feel the influence and the state of brain activities the sound wave caused.
> | Since about 10 years ago, I started to look into psychic and esoteric
Well, on that occasion of seeing aura, it took me about half an hour, with around 15 minutes of relaxation. But then I can't do again afterwards. All you have to do is relax, and look without focusing. :-) I brought a skeptic friend with me on that occasion. He had not seen aura before, but before we actually started the relaxation process, he could already see auras around others' heads. It was fascinating.
> I think I've not heard that the tendency for psychic abilities/experiences
I suppose you are right in co-relating psychic (mostly on astral) with emotional center. I was just thinking about the "sensitive" aspect -- creative people are generally more sensitive (emotionally as well as on sensory). As in more on "feeling", both sensory feeling and emotional feeling.
> The same holds true for frequency - I've not heard it mentioned as a factor
I see. Sounds very logical.
> There are other factors as well - overleaves and casting order. When
I guess that means I didn't choose a "correct" overleaves this time. :-) Hmm... must be that Pragmatic Attitude having fun.
> | I would appreciate if any channelers here can comment on it.
Are you taking a course on channeling? From one of the Michael Channelers?
> | (it's like -- geez I wish I can channel, but seems that my skull is
Oh that has always been like that for me all my life (well, still relatively short as of now). I used to think I can't fit in with people around me. My parents always worried that I don't have enough friends, always doing things alone. It was until I discovered Michael Teachings that I understood this strange tendency. It was very conflicting for me because I am also a Sage (most recent validation) and always enjoy company. Just different company, I guess. :-)
> (=A7) For references email me.
And Sages always admire the Scholars' ability to "reference" so much materials... Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 03:08:40 -0600 J J Tan wrote:
-----snip-----
Dear J J, I agree. Years ago, I received some personal channelling on this subject. I asked if I could be a Michael channel. The response back to me according to my memory was that Michael said I had the overleaves to do so (Old 4th level Sage, in Growth, Observation, Pragmatist) if I wanted to discipline myself. Michael also said that they saw no agreements I had to be a Michael channel to others nor did I have an agreement with Michael to be a Michael channel. This seems right to me because outside of a curiosity about the process, I have not had a burning desire to become a Michael channel. However, the healing agreements I've had have yielded strong motivations and desires to accomplish attaining my degrees in counseling and psychology which put me in a position to complete many of those agreements. My sense was/is that "psychic" ability is more of a function of what was planned for a particular lifetime whether it be an infant, baby, young, mature or old soul lifetime. Thus, if psychic ability was planned for a lifetime, the appropriate overleaves would be chosen. My guess, though I did not ask Michael this, is that the neutral mode of observation lends well to channelling and the neutral attitude of pragmatist would do well too. I also think being a spiritualist would be a good attitude for channelling too, but as I said, these are my thoughts and I don't know if Michael has shared this info before. John Macchietto Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:27:33 +0800 At 02:13 AM 2/18/98 -0000, Jeanne Holley wrote:
> The overleaves channeled (and I was talking to the Michaels) fit
I do not know about the quiz, though I have gone through some other from various Michael books (The Michael Handbook, Personality Puzzle), etc. The one that fits me best is the channeled overleaves, even though my role was stated as "Sage/Artisan" and the channeler (Mike Berkeley) told me about ambiguity because I only sent 1 photograph for an overleaves reading. However, I have something to say with regard to validation. Michael did mention a "photograph method", where you just stop whatever you are doing and take a moment to assess yourself - your emotions, your behaviors, etc. This method was mentioned in the section (forgot which book, one of the early ones, I think) with regard to dealing with Chief Features. But I think it is just as worthwhile to use it to see which Mode you were acting out of, what was your Attitude then, etc. I would also encourage the more "self-photograph" you take (the more frequent) the better, because it would lead to a state of awareness that is like "being awake". :-) (isn't the term called "enlightened"?) Hope I'm making sense. Regards. Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:22:29 -0500 Hi Gail!
> And you thought I would end...Only one last thing, I promise, I'm having
If you absolutely can't find the other books (More messages from Michael and Michael's People) you can Interlibrary Loan them from your local library. I'm a reference librarian (and also _brand_ new to Michael as well!) and I didn't have too many problems getting them that way myself. You may get some static from the librarian because they are owned by very few libraries in the country (More messages was owned by only 23 libraries...eek!), but since you're in California which has a high density of libraries and people you should be better off than most people. There are libraries out there that will supply them for free. And I just sent back my copies too, so those are freed up now! Oh, I'll let others who know more explain this, but I believe cadres are explained in More messages from Michael. --Kathleen Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 06:08:45 +0000
> > What if you were right, and the channel wrong?
Comfortable is not the term I would use. Are you an intuitive person? Have you ever just known something was so, and it was? I would recommend doing a passive type meditation on each aspect of your overleaves and looking for validation in that type of feeling. By passive I mean not doing this in an aggressive or assertive manner, but to remain detached and kind of allow things to flow as they will. This type of state takes time for me to achieve when out of practice. You may try this daily for a week or so at the same time of day to help facilitate the process. If you felt the channeled overleaves "fit" you better, and you weren't rationalizing at the time, this may in fact be so. I just wanted to point out that external sources of information aren't necessarily any more accurate than you going within. John Rogers Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 06:07:14 -0500 Dear Michael Listers, There is a possible HOAX email that is going around asking you to "Forward this to everyone you know and if it reaches 1000 people everyone on the list you will receive $1000 and a copy of Windows98 at my expense." This message was started in early January and is still going around. PLEASE RE-CONSIDER before you forward such an email. The message itself is fairly short, but the accumulation of addresses has built up to a 35K size. It is written as signed by: This kind of s..t can clog up mail servers and internet servers around the world, and I doubt that Bill Gates wants that to happen. My email and Web service at Netcom has already deteriorated to uselessness. Again I ask: PLEASE RECONSIDER BEFORE FORWARDING SUCH A MESSAGE. -- Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:53:13 -0600 Thanks Kathi, I think that what you are describing is what I do. I have just had trouble describing it. Many years ago (BM-"Before Michael") I was reading a little book supposedly channeled by God through a man at the turn of the Century. A particular passage I read suddenly sent the most incredible feeling welling up inside me and I thought "this is what unconditional love is". After studying the Michael Teachings, I believe this to be my Essence and when I feel the need for direction, I sit quietly and go "within" and look at what I am trying to learn and if that incredible feeling begins to well up (only words I can use to describe it), I "know" that I am going in the right direction. If the feeling does not come, I reassess the entire situation. Does this make sense to you? Is that similar to what you are describing? (I am fourth in my Cadence and Michael says that is a strong Scholar Influence, and I guess that's why this old Sage listens so closely when you well-grounded Scholars make suggestions.) This has gotten a little longer than I intended, but I thank you for your suggestions. Love and Peaceful Introspections :-)) Jeanne Holley Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:14:35 -0800 J J Tan wrote:
<snip>
I agree about the idea of psychic abilities being connected to the masculine/feminine ratio but my idea is based on bizarre information from Col Beardon, a retired USAF Colonel regarding scalar waves. The claim Tom Beardon makes is that scalar waves are generated at a crosspoint of two radio transmissions when they are done just right They release huge quantities of energy and can be used for a variety of purposes. I see a connection between the two halves of the brain (one half being masculine and the other half being feminine) and the two radio transmitters discussed in Tom Beardon's books. Regards, Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:47:27 -0800 Rona wrote:
> That would be Jane Roberts. I have several of the books she channeled it is
I found the Seth material interesting but was never sure I understood it.
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:02:06 -0800 Jeanne Holley wrote:
<snip>
That is what I wonder about. I sometimes have the fatalistic view that if
the souls running Iraq and the U.S. don't work their karma out here they will
just have to learn it elsewhere so why not get it over with? ...but that can
have what would seem to be terrible consequences. I am also confused. I would also like to see us leave Iraq alone. Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:39:29 EST I'm Sorry. Did I send that to you, Ken? I really thought I had something. I found out it must have been a hoax when most of my friends sent me age old chain letters that were gathering dust in their hard drives. Kay Heatherly was the kindest. She sent a joke chain letter. Forget the letter. I know a great way to make money. Call me about Amway. That means you, Dave. Sorry I sent you the letter. Holding back the embarrassment, Dan Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:07:34 +0000
> Call me about Amway.
Isn't that a cult? ; ) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:41:13 -0800
| From: John Macchietto
Right.(§1)
| My guess, though I did not ask Michael this, is that the neutral mode of
Those with a goal of dominance or growth; an attitude of realist, idealist or pragmatist; moving center available; and chief feature of arrogance or self-deprecation tend to be most successful channeling entities on the causal plane. Spiritualists often encounter difficulties bringing information forth in such mundane form as words.(§2) It's interesting that mode was not mentioned in this reference. (§) For references email me privately. Cheers, Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:41:05 -0800
/ From: J J Tan
Right, especially in the early part of the cycle.(§1)
/ On the other hand, whales and dolphins are channeled to be able to communicate via telepathy.
Their primary method of communication is sonically.(§2)
/ I'm sure some of those are Young Souls, as well, if not Baby Souls.
They undoubtedly have fragments of all soul ages.
/ I guess the nature of species makes a difference here in terms of psychic abilities?
I've not seen that mentioned in books WRT species incarnating on Earth. Some non-Earth-incarnating species are highly psychic.
/ Just as well, there are psychic human beings who seek out to cause harm
Karma can be the result of such actions.(§3)
/ I tend to think that psychic abilities are there "across the board" in
As Barbara mentioned, and as documented in books, they can be emphasized when appropriate for the life task.(§3)
/ Heck, perhaps I am just trying to say that psychic abilities does not an
Right.
/ | One of the reasons I am trying out sound recordings (courses) from
That is correct.
/ If I (or you) gain nothing out of it, perhaps it at least help me... "think straight"? :-)
Heh!
/ I have personal experiences with those sound, and can say that, while I
About the only effect I felt was "drifting out".
/ > I think I've not heard that the tendency for psychic
That is probably part of it also.
/ I am also a Sage (most recent validation) and always enjoy company.
Thanks! (§) For references email me privately. Cheers, Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:50:43 -0800
| From: Kathleen Klocko
They are, but Shepherd also has an excellent explanation in _Journey_. Cheers, Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:58:23 -0800 Greetings listers, At long last the cause of intermittent garbled messages has been determined. The problem has occurred so far only with messages from Mac users on AOL. I have an understanding of the technical details of the problem but feel most of you would prefer that I not go into it at that level here. There is a way to circumvent the problem, however. All that needs to be done is to not use certain characters in messages to the list. To determine which characters are OK and which should be avoided, bring up http://www.wco.com/~rwh/ascii_table.html on your browser. This is a table that shows all characters that are in the font you have selected to use in your browser. To see which characters to use and which to stay away from, draw an imaginary horizontal line between rows 7x and 8x. All characters in 7x and above are OK, and those in 8x and below will cause your message to be garbled. I am curious to know if the problem occurs for AOL users who have PCs. Anyone care to try it? Thanks to Shepherd for his assistance in isolating this problem and for sending the tests. If anyone wants the gory details, let me know via email. Cheers, Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:12:19 -0600 John, You said that comfortable is not a word you would use in relation to overleaves. I've pondered that thought since I first read it. But I have to say that some of my overleaves are comfortable to me, in that I now understand much more about myself than I did before. Good, bad or indifferent, these are my overleaves; they have helped me become what I am today; and I don't apologize for them. I know where my weaknesses are (at least the major ones) and the more I read and listen to the Teachings, the more questions I am able to answer about myself. Certainly not all of them, but I'm not ready to leave yet this time, so I have time to work on more of my weaknesses. Perhaps because I'm nearing the end of this trip, I see it differently than so many of you on the list do. (I'm not condescending when I say this, just stating facts.) I see a lot of people struggling and I don't feel that way. It's like validating. I don't have to if I don't want to. I don't have to "do" anything. But I make the attempt even though (because I'm somewhat intuitive) I mentally say to myself "ah, that it explains it" regarding my goal, my CNF, my Mode and Attitude. When I took the Role quiz, although I had long ago been channeled as a Priest, I "knew" I was a Sage. What I learned from the recent channeling is that I have a Priest ET and that is what the first channel picked up (my explanation). Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that through 60 years of life, I have begun in the last few years, to learn to "love myself", even with my overleaves and CNF. That's what I mean about comfortable. And quite frankly, I no longer feel "driven" to do anything other than learn more of the Michael Teachings and retire in slightly less than 5 years. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. "Relax and go with the Flow" (I think)! Love and Laughter :-)) Jeanne Holley Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:23:02 -0800 Jeanne wrote:
Is feeling comfortable with your overleaves (or uncomfortable when you realize why you do some of the things you do) part of validation. Everyone says "validate" and the best way I know to do that is to meditate and see what feels right? Any other suggestions?
For me, the self-validation was pretty straight forward. I had identified power, realist, int center/MovPart, and arrogance almost from the beginning of my Michael studies. For role I'd picked scholar and for goal, observation. Then, when I had the overleaves channeled, the role came through as sage with scholar et and scholar casting, and the goal was growth. I realized that some rather difficult self-karmas had obscured the sage/growth overleaves in my internal validation process. Still, overall, my overleaves are a pretty coordinated group of "out front" items. In going forward, and in attempting to identify the overleaves of those around me, I began to see that it may well be very difficult to validate many of the combinations of overleaves. I have a mature artisan sister with a dominance goal and power mode. For the longest time I thought her role had to be one of king or warrior simply because of the strength and direction of will she exhibited. At this time, I find that I am comfortable with my overleaves as channeled primarily because I try to identify and work out of thier positive poles. If I was suddenly channeled as a Priest in submission, I think I would have just as much comfort and fun in validating that and working with the positive aspects of those overleaves. Although, that could simply be the sagey thing of putting on a new role for my favorite audience (which is, of course, ME!) Happy (Self-Validating) Trails to Y'all... Kathy. Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:43:59 -0800 Dick Hein wrote:
<<<<< Those with a goal of dominance or growth; an attitude of realist,
:::::::::Arrogance (with a little power mode) slides to self-dep:::::::::" ...that's me! I've got those overleaves, I could be CHANNELING!!! THE SUGGESTIONS OF THE CAUSAL PLANE AT THE TOUCH OF A KEYBOARD!!!" followed by "... who in the hell do you think you are? You're a wretched, confused, moronic mess and you wouldn't even be able to channel a couple of stray cats wondering around the neighborhood. Good grief..." :::::::::the winner is: attitude of realist:::::::::; Case closed. Love, Kathy. :::::::::yet another old soul, over the edge, and deciding to just hang out and not sweat the stressful stuff::::::::: Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 04:51:55 -0600 Kathryn: Besides everything else, "Caris". You too? Are you 1st Cadre/ 5th Entity, as well? Love and Laughter and A Feeling of Kinship :-)) Jeanne Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:04:21 EST It seems to me the Michael Teaching is very similar to Hinduism. Hindu focuses on knowing atman (our true nature) as a path to a higher level of being. This seems to correspond with our efforts to get into our positive poles. Or, more generally, just knowing more about ourselves through knowing our overleaves. And the caste system is certainly similar to the Michael Teaching's "roles." This is kind of an academic observation since it is not really something that can be used for growth or better functioning in the world, or service to others. Still, my mind works this way, so I figure I might as well go ahead and put this out there. Socrates and Plato were also definitely tapped into these teachings. All that stuff about philosopher-kings - read: pick an old soul to lead you. And of course there was Ouspenksy and Gurijieff (sp sp). Back into modern times, some channeled teachings I've been working with also seem to be very Hindu in that they also focus on knowing and being the soul. These teachings, from Sanaya Roman and Duane Packer, also employ the help of higher plane "beings." This seems similar to HIndu's use of many deities. I've been told that Sanaya and Duane are channeling causal plane entities, which is of course where the Michaels hang their hats. So I'm wondering if these teachings, which have similarities, are similar because they are coming from the same place. Or if they are similar only because true personality and essence focusing offer a good practical path for humans. There are other teachings or religions that offer different advice. Or, I should say, focus on different areas. The Chinese religions focused on social relationships. The middle-eastern Judeo -Christian-Islam strain is concerned mostly with the outer world (Man shall have dominion over the animals...). The shamanistic practices are concerned with increasing personal power and personal use of energy. Hindu and Buddhism, from India, both address the ultimate nature of reality, which they relate to the inner self and its development (thus the focus on the self). So, why different teachings in different places? What is the story of the Michael Teachings through time? What was its role in ancient Egypt? Are there other types of teachings coming from the causal plane? Wouldn't it be great to snap in all the pieces in the jigsaw puzzle? Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:31:17 -0800 John C. wrote:
<snip>
One of JP's channelings, I believe, said that in ancient times Michael
was thought of as the sun god! They said we can handle that and proceeded to
give helpful information. Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:34:21 -0800 Hi all, Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:35:16 -0800 Hi, Subject: Re: Type of Soul (1998-07/844)
| From: Jeanne Holley
The influence of one's ET can be especially strong if the ET is not on the planet. Cheers, Subject: Re: Internal Dialogue (1998-07/846)
| From: Kathryn Neall
I love it! Cheers, Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 02:24:43 -0800
| From: John Clark
I think the similarity is tenuous at best. In the Michael teachings, one's Role is the type of soul we are, the spiritual archetype we embody. It determines our dominant way of being, not so much *what* we do but *how* we do it. (Adapted from _Journey_.108) My dictionary describes caste (in part) as -
1. Social subclasses stratified according to Hindu ritual purity.
I don't see how Roles in the Michael system can be compared to the Hindu caste system.
| So, why different teachings in different places?
Probably to fit what is needed by the students.
| What is the story of the Michael Teachings through time? What was its
My sketchy information indicates only that it was present.
| Are there other types of teachings coming from the causal plane?
Yes. From what I recall of reading _Opening to Channel_ (OTC) by Duane Packer and Sanaya Roman (have they written other books?), the beings they channeled sounded like they were from the causal plane. Also, there are other mid-causal teachers, and one in particular called "Robert" that teaches in a manner similar to Michael.(§1)
| Wouldn't it be great to snap in all the pieces in the jigsaw puzzle?
Indeed it would. Cheers, Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 04:26:18 +0000
> John,
Well, comfortable is not a word I would use to describe working on weaknesses. But my goal is growth, so comfort is barely in my vocabulary. So, having said that, the next logical step would be to say, how comfortable you are with your overleaves has a direct correlation to what your overleaves are, and probably whether or not you are in the positive poles would have some affect on comfort level also. Why would you think anyone would need to apologize for their overleaves? I would think if you were comfortable, that thought would not have occurred to you.
> Perhaps because I'm nearing the end of this trip, I see it differently
Well, in relative terms, I think the simple fact that we are all different explains seeing things differently. I don't think soul age (if that's what you are referring to) has any more influence than role, or goal, or mode, or chief feature, etc.
> (I'm not condescending when I say this, just stating facts.)
Ah ha, different definitions of comfortable. I thought that might be the culprit. Congratulations on loving yourself, by the way. We loved you all along and were just waiting for you to catch up. ; )
> I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. "Relax and go with the Flow" (I think)!
Yes, some sage advise <G>. I do understand. Thank you.
> Love and Laughter :-))
Yes, some more of that. John Rogers Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:47:46 EST John said:
<< Well, comfortable is not a word I would use to describe working on
I totally agree (growth and passion here). While my life has been 'eventful' with no rest between 'challenges', there's been a lot of good stuff too. In my case, I feel the overleaves were chosen specifically to create 'not- comfort' so that I would get my butt up off of the old soul couch and finish a lot of karma and agreements. I don't mean discomfort exactly, although I end up creating discomfort at times when I stress too much about things I can't control. Sometimes I feel like the overleaves throw me into mature-like drama, but on a deep level I know that isn't my natural state and find it embarrassing (self-karma, anyone?). Martha Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:14:55 -0800 FWIW, I sense that the caste system in the Hindu world was very much the same information coming through that we have gotten again as information about roles through Michael. When it came through that time, it just got distorted and used in economic and political ways. People who were in power tried to use it to stay in power rather than using the information in a way to empower everyone. I think at this time that old hierarchical approach is giving way to seeing ourselves as one body and seeing each role as playing a necessary part within the whole. At this time we are also understanding ourselves to be whole within ourselves as well. As a seed is whole. And a seedling is whole, and a tree at any stage can easily be seen to be whole. So are we. And at the same time interwoven and playing a part within our entity, our cadre, and our world. Best to all, Brin Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 08:55:26 -0800 When we were in Egypt, we asked Michael about their history and our
connections with their entity. During the breakup of Atlantis and the migration
to Egypt and England, the Michael entity was finishing up (they were the 1st
wave of humans on the planet), as we (the 2nd wave) were incarnating in our
early soul ages. They (individual members) were our teachers and tried to
instill as much information as they could. Our agreement was to come back and
work with them more when we got to the older soul ages. Barbara Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:17:01 -0800 Thanks, Barbara; great info! Cheers, Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:21:55 -0800
| From: Brin
Interesting, and not unreasonable.
| I think at this time that old hierarchical approach is giving way to
Well said; thank you. If I might express an opinion here - I think this is a good example of an Old soul's perspective contrasted with my Mature one (reference my post WRT the Hindu caste system). Interaction on this list reminds me a little of some of my very early grade school classes that had multiple grades in the same room. During idle times one's attention could wander into the next grade's area and new, more advanced information could be absorbed. Cheers, Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:49:06 -0600 I want to say a special "Thank You" to Barbara Taylor and Shepherd Hoodwin. When I first joined this list I had only read the four Michael Books by Berkley Publishing. You both recommended that I get some of the newer books and some of the tapes. I have been doing that for the last two months and my world has visible opened up. I also want you both to know how much I (and I'm sure many of the others on the Michael LIst) appreciate the guidance that you occasionally interject to help us during our sometimes heated discussions. I realize that you are both very busy people and that the time you give to us is precious and you could be utilizing it elsewhere to your personal and monetary advantage. My hat is off to both of you. (Barbara, I'm getting "Michael Math" from you next month.) (Shepherd, I just started "Journey" and I am as eager to keep reading as I am when I'm reading a new Stephen King novel.) Love and Laughter and Gratitude :-)) Jeanne Holley Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 19:41:35 EST In a message dated 98-02-21 14:54:51 EST, Jeanne Holley writes:
<< (Shepherd, I just started "Journey" and I am as eager
Hahaha...Now that presents an interesting contrast - Stephen King and Shepherd Hoodwin. ;-p Just make sure you don't confuse the concepts between the two authors. Can you imagine such a coupling? You might have King driving a stake through his career by writing stories of unconditional love and spiritual enlightenment, and Shepherd writing blood drenched tales of 1050 hideously deformed creatures, stalking the earth to suck the brains out of New Age groupies that ooze yellowish pus. ;-p Actually, I kind of favor the idea. Dave - author of "Michael: The Creature From the Black Spitoon," and "Love is Never Having to Say - 'Turn Your Head and Cough.'" Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 18:55:56 -0600 Dave, I haven't laughed this hard for at least a year. Are you a comedian by trade? And I thought I had a warped sense of humor. I'm still laughing so hard I can hardly type this. I never envisioned this kind of response to my message. Love Ya! Jeanne Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:13:07 +0000
> If I might express an opinion here - I think this is a good example of an
If I might express an opinion also... Dick, I have the highest regard for you, your thoughts, and opinions. And that's not just a scholar to scholar thing. If this is really the way you feel, then I think you need to skip a grade. At least one. John Rogers Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:06:33 +0800 At 06:03 AM 2/20/98 -0000, John Clark wrote:
It seems to me the Michael Teaching is very similar to Hinduism. Hindu focuses
According to Michael, Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, and Taoism, were founded because of an Infinite Soul. And Infinite Soul was here to tell us about the Tao. I would say that they must be similar, otherwise there would be different Taos. :-) Then again, there is the matter of how much of the original teaching are intact in our present literature. If you look at it from the perspective of Hindu, you would see similarities there. If I see it from the perspective of ancient Greek philosophy of "Know Thyself", I would say that it is exactly the same thing. If you would just glance through Tao Te Ching, you would probably say the same thing over and over again.
And the caste system is certainly similar to the Michael Teaching's "roles."
If only in appearance.
This is kind of an academic observation since it is not really something that
For the major part of my [relatively short] life, my mind works just like that way, too. Being born in Singapore has the advantage (I wonder if that was the reason I chose to be born here) of coming into close contacts philosophies and religions of the world. That Singapore is now being developed into a major "hub" in terms of commerce and information of the world encourage the "meeting" of cultures even more. It was until about 2 or 3 years ago that "the way my mind works" slowly took a turn.
Socrates and Plato were also definitely tapped into these teachings. All that
Socrates was a Transcendental Soul, according to Michael. I wonder if Transcendental Soul energy is just as intense as Infinite Soul energy? Any channelers would like to ask Michael about this? My knowledge of life-history of those 4 Transcendental Souls are limited, but I think they did not die "a natural death", right? Was that because the Transcendental Soul energy too intense to handle for long term?
Back into modern times, some channeled teachings I've been working with also
Maybe what the Hindus call "deities" are those higher planes beings? But that is where the Baby Soul characteristic comes in (as is obvious in all the ancient and major religions being introduced into a world of Baby Souls in majority), where calling higher plane beings as superior or in position of authority is concerned.
I've been told that Sanaya and Duane are channeling causal plane entities,
In the spirit of Michael's Teaching, it is a matter of choice. :-) The choice to see this as a "good practical path", or pick any path. If what Michael says was true, we grow spiritually no matter what we do -- it is inevitable. That our Essence will always learn from what we do here, whether we are aware of what we are doing, or not (enlighten or not). I suppose the only difference is the speed of spiritual growth. Even that, Essence is eternally patient, so "speed" is also not a significant factor.
There are other teachings or religions that offer different advice. Or, I
Well, I would like to ask what "Chinese religions" you were referring to. Chinese traditions, and superstition systems seem to encourage building better social relationships. But there is only one Chinese religion, Taoism, that consist of any system and structure enough to be labeled a religion. Buddhism was in China and Chinese tradition for a long time, so it also have a heavy influence in Chinese culture and tradition, but it was not Chinese in origin.
mostly with the outer world (Man shall have dominion over the animals...). The
My "jigsaw puzzle" also include their structure of heaven and hell, of reincarnation, of "higher plane beings" and deities, etc. And no, they don't mix at all. When I came across Michael's Teachings, much of these confusion were cleared. That was one of the reasons that, when I found this Teaching, I thought "I found the answer to the universe". :-) Well, needless to say, I was wrong. I also realize since then, that these "structures", "pieces of jigsaw puzzles" are not really important. They may be fun to play around, certainly a tickle to the intellectural and reasoning centers of the brain, but do not really offer anything unless you personally practise a system (whether of any of the religions, or of any channeled material, or a "partially pieced up jigsaw puzzle" of your creation). It will always remain a "tickle to the intellectual and reasoning centers of the brain". Regards. Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 19:20:13 -0800 I think I've mentioned the relationships between the overleaves and math on
this list. For some folks, colors are easier to see and understand than the math
-- there's something about color that "connects" easier. The overleaf chart I use is filled with colors, so today I have added it
to my web site, along with some other new stuff. Barbara Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:10:52 EST Dave wrote:
> You might have King driving a stake through his career by writing stories of
Dave, this is hilarious, and maybe even strikes a chord: Yarbro is most famous for writing horror stories (this is true). And my next book, a channeled self- help tome, is called "Demons and Evil Spirits: How to Kill 'Em with Kindness!" Shepherd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:47:38 EST In a message dated 2/22/98 11:03:46 AM, JJ Tan wrote:
Socrates was a Transcendental Soul, according to Michael. I wonder if
JJ TO answer a couple questions in your post, I find that: Transcendental energy, being just one entity from astral or causal plane animating a human body, usually one essence at a time, is not nearly as intense, not a tiny fraction as intense, as the infinite energy which basically includes the universe and does tend to burn up bodies quickly unless regulated by coming in and out of the chosen vehicle. transcendental souls tend to be pretty special, pretty noticeable, but sometimes live quiet radiant lives too. Infinite souls always get notice and make big changes in the world. blessings, Joya
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