Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 14:22:58 -0600 (CST)
From: John Clark
Subject: Clinton Helicopter

MERCEDES, TX--- President Clinton flew over my trailer in his helicopter last night at 1:30.

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 13:05:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Clinton Helicopter

Hey John--I read but no comprendo, amigo. I'm confused-- help me out here, eh? :^) Wat is it you tryin' to tell me, mon?

Lori

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:02:43 EST
Subject: Re: Clinton Helicopter

Cool....I'll alert the media. ;-p
Dave

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:19:46 +0000
Subject: Re: Clinton Helicopter

No, no. That's a missprint. President Clinton flew over my MERCEDES in HIS TRAILER last night at 1:30... I LIVE in a helicopter.

Kenneth, what's the frequency?

Dean

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 16:05:34 -0800
From: Lori Tostado
Subject: Re: Clinton Helicopter

Oh, Oh, I get it now--you must have mistakenly posted this here when you really meant to post it to the newsgroup alt.conspiracy.clinton.helicopters .... kind of like, an Elvis sighting??? I see!

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 19:33:37 -0500
From: Kenneth Broom
Subject: Re: Clinton Helicopter

Ribi dibi dibi dib. Gee, I don't know, Buck. Worf must have changed it again.

Twiki, 7th Level Old Robot.

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:05:31 -0600
Subject: Re: Clinton Helicopter

I'm delighted that President Clinton flew over the trailer or whatever. I was beginning to think there was no longer anyone posting to the Michael Teachings List. I was getting lonely out here!

I've just gotten some information on the Four Pillars. Can someone give me some of the newer channeled information that is not in the first two Michael Books? I have so much catching up to do. Would love to see some newer threads started. Thank you.

Love and Laughter :-))

Jeanne Holley

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 16:48:49 -0800
Subject: drugs and spiritual experiences

Hi Everyone,
A topic I hope will get some discussions going again: Drugs (mind-altering kinds--I don't think there's a big difference if they're herbs or man-made chemicals--they can still have the same effect--but this is my opinion from my inexperienced in this life viewpoint--I could be wrong.)
And Spiritual Experience
I personally have never taken any hallucinogenic drugs, or in more spiritual terms, substances which rip open the aura and allow the mind to roam into the astral plane unprotected from the body's natural defenses. But, I have learned in the past few months of a sub-culture, if I may call it that, within the Michael community, who often use drugs of various sorts in order to have "spiritual experiences." Some call it a form of shamanism. I wonder though, after talking to some who have done drugs either just recreationally or with the intent of having some kind of spiritual experience, whether or not this short-cut or fast-track to shamanic or spiritual awakening isn't just some kind of excuse to escape the very reason we are here--to live life as spiritual beings on a human path. I wonder if this dangerous practice is more of an escape and an addiction than a spiritual awakening. Certainly for some people, their experience while under the influence of a drug opened up a part of themselves they had forgotten and began them on a fantastic journey--but I think if they continued this way, they're the ones whose bodies burned out before they finished what they'd come to do here in that life. For others their experience was a living hell. My question is, if people who are into the Michael teachings and really take them on in living their lives, why would they need drugs? It seems like real denial and self-destruction to think one needs these kind of substances to get to the truth of who they are and knowing themselves to the core. I think instead of being a more direct route to self-realization, drugs are really more of a trap--a sweet-smelling rose with a beauty that disguises its huge thorns....I know one thing--I don't want to go there. As I was growing up and saw other kids doing these things, it was always like a been-there-done-that, don't want to go there again kind of feeling, as I was thinking, what a bunch of idiots.... Heheh, I was always the different one. And yes, I do realize I still have some judgements here as well as some suspicions. Perhaps they are well-founded nevertheless. Maybe not. But I'm curious to know what you all think. I know there are people out there whose brain chemistry opens them up to these astral planes naturally anyway--some of them are considered "mentally ill," while others, "gifted." I think there is a way we get there more balanced, when we are ready for it, and that drugs are more of a hinderance than a help. Then, there are those of us who talk to dead people. ;-p

Blessings,
Lori

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:03:30 -0600
Subject: Re: drugs and spiritual experiences

Lori,

I agree with your premise. But I must be honest and qualify what I say with the honest statement that I am a nicotine/ caffeine user. However, I have never taken mind altering drugs because I felt that (ego speaking) I had to be in control. IMO, a Spiritual High cannot be achieved if the body is immersed in hard drugs. But I believe that Michael has stated that a real spiritual experience, contact with Essence, can be very painful. Perhaps it frightens people and they feel the need of the drug high to counteract the intense loneliness one realizes when getting in touch with Essence. What do you think?

Jeanne Holley

Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 20:40:05 -0500
Subject: Re: drugs and spiritual experiences

Lori Tostado wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
> A topic I hope will get some discussions going again:
> Drugs (mind-altering kinds--I don't think there's a big difference if
> they're herbs or man-made chemicals--they can still have the same
> effect--but this is my opinion from my inexperienced in this life
> viewpoint--I could be wrong.)

From the shamanic POV: man-made mind-altering chemicals are useless for constructive earth/spirit work... and they can cause great damage to the physical and astral bodies. What is required for cooperation with Mother Earth and the natural/astral energies is herbs and substances directly from our Earth Mother herself... not from a chemist's flask.

> And Spiritual Experience
> I personally have never taken any hallucinogenic drugs, or in more
> spiritual terms, substances which rip open the aura and allow the mind
> to roam into the astral plane unprotected from the body's natural
> defenses. But, I have learned in the past few months of a sub-culture,
> if I may call it that, within the Michael community, who often use drugs
> of various sorts in order to have "spiritual experiences." Some call it
> a form of shamanism.

It's a mis-guided form of shamanism. Chemicals can give one a "peep" beyond the veil, but because they also tend to distort one's judgemental faculties, they also distort and mis-create one's astral perceptions and comprehensions. These chemicals do not have to be esoteric. If you dilute your blood with just plain water, you upset your body's electro/chemical balance and you will see into the astral. If you have too much sugar in your blood you will see into the astral. Too much caffeine will send you closer toward the astral.

However... trying to short-circuit the growth path to real wisdom just can not work. Wisdom is only come by via truth, and truth cannot be faked for long.

Truth is. Illusion isn't.

[clipped]

Peace and Light to You and Yours,
Kenneth Broom, Columbia, MD, USA
aka I.A.M. Research
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
7th Level Old Scholar, Observation, Acceptance, Idealist,
Emotional Part of Intellectual Center, Impatience. (INFP)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:27:25 EST
Subject: Re: drugs and spiritual experiences

For my two cents worth....I am very unimpressed with the "shamanism" subculture with which some of our Michael channels have been flirting.

I've had my brief experiences with psychedelics a long time ago and the biggest realization that came from tripping was that I really liked the order of my mind and didn't want to mess with it again.

My sour feelings about the "shamanists" mostly boil down to three elements:

1) I haven't been overwhelmed by their wisdom, enlightenment, success in life, or a sense that they have tapped into something I would want to pursue as a path.

2) Shamanism is, so to speak, the metaphysics of many indigenous peoples who for the most part don't have written languages and books or intellectual culture. They are mainly infant and baby soul societies. Their belief systems and astral plane realities revolve around nature and plants and animals, not the complex inventions of man that we have. For someone in one of those societies who chose to embark on the spiritual path, the shamanic reality was the way. It isn't obviously the way for everyone here and now.

3) I don't like people putting out any energy at all to say that drugs, even if they are exotic natural substances like mushroom toxins, are good, desirable, useful tools, fun, or anything else positive. They are absolutely not needed for spiritual growth or revelation, and it isn't good work to encourage ignorant people to use them.

I also find the conceptual scheme of shamanic reality way too complicated. One would do better to start with the simplicity that is at the heart of all the Infinite Soul - based teachings. I don't think I've ever met anyone involved with the shamanic stuff who really got what Jesus or Buddha were about.

All the best, Ed

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 08:39:32 EST
Subject: Re: drugs and spiritual experiences

Hi!
I'm new to this list, although many of you know me well <g>. First, I hope I'm posting this correctly! My brief 2 cents on this topic: I tried various drugs many years ago ( I was 20, it was the early '80s), and I think you cannot lump them all together. I did mushrooms about 6 or 8 times and I NEVER hallucinated or had spiritual experiences. I did get really loaded and had a good time for the most part ( I was young!), but my conclusion was that it wasn't worth the physical cost (you feel like crap towards the end, and your body is just wrung out). 2 of the times I ate a small piece alone and had an absolutely HORRIBLE time, depths of despair type thing. I tried man-made hallucinogens once, with the same results but worse. My fellow trippers could never believe I didn't hallucinate, and I was always suspicious that they weren't either! I think pot can be very useful, though I gave it up when I became a mom. It always helped me think and meditate, but I don't think it mixes well with caring for a small child. My personal experience with it is that it is gentle and mild, unlike alcohol. So I would say that pot aided me spiritually, in the sense that it helped me block out the distractions of the day and sort of wander through my mind. I came up with a lot of good insights that way, but certainly no hallucinations or lightning bolts or anything like that. These days I rely heavily on caffeine to keep me awake. I think alot of drug experiences have a lot to do with the expectations of the user, in other words, if you sit down and take a drug to have a spiritual experience, then you will create one!

Martha

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:36:41 EST
Subject: Re: drugs and spiritual experiences

Adding to my previous two cents' worth before all the flak comes back.....

Yes, I would add all the usual Michael "boilerplate" about how all choices are valid, and the usual "acceptance-ism" that therefore we have no business judging anyone about anything.

It seems to me that in the US at least, quite possibly a majority of people are working on self-karma about addictions to one thing or another, especially smoking, drinking, drugs, gambling, and so on. The addictions involve a wave cycle where first you get high or stimulated or thrilled in some way (either this is a pleasurable sensation or feeling, or it is a dramatic relief from chronic physical, emotional or spiritual pain, or both), then you come down from the high back to the pain and it is even worse because of the closeness of its absence. It's so clear then that you want to get high again, and so you do, and the cycle goes on until other consequences kick in strongly enough to make you stop.

So many people are doing so much of this. Generally people won't successfully be done with an addiction until they address, heal and integrate whatever the painful feelings were that preceded the beginning of the addiction; that is, whatever it was that one wanted to escape from. People in self-karma will eventually realize that, even if it takes decades or centuries of suffering and self-judgment first.

Because so much energy is tied up not very productively in addiction self- karmas, our lives and culture and environment are way below their potential. I know that any old soul who wanted to have a good living could do so just by doing some sort of work that successfully helped people out of addictions. There are many millions of people who would like to quit smoking but have tried and failed enough that they have given up on it and feel condemned to a permanent lower class of social losers. Likewise with alcoholics and pot users -- I've seen plenty of old 60's types who are as hung up with pot as a solution to everything as the Prohibition Era alcoholics are/were on drinking. Just because stupid younger soul authority forbade it, it was forbidden fruit and a "solution".

All these substances have harmful effects on the body. The usual boilerplate says that if people choose to experience self-destruction, it is a valid choice as are all choices. Personally I can unconditionally love self- destructive people, but I'd rather see them pull out of it and contribute more to the planetary evolution.

The "spiritual"-ness that we attribute to the nervous system phenomena that occur as a result of ingesting the various mushroom toxins, is, to oversimplify, a brain connection with parts of our brain "wiring" that tap into, among other things, poisoning and death experiences from past lives. (The brain "wiring" accesses parts of the brain that connect with other planes in ways that we normally turn off in daily life.) Thus, in generally unpredictable ways, we can tap into general or specific awareness that we have other lifetimes and are immortal and much more than just this lifetime's personality. This is a great and wonderful revelation for someone who needs it. Because of the unpredictability, it can happen that one accesses terrifying fears or other feelings that one isn't ready for. (Of course we can say that everything is perfect and chosen and so it is right.) Usually people recover from and learn from bad trips.

I notice that the deeper you get into drug culture, whether it is "recreational" or "spiritual" in rationale, the more you find that people are strange, i.e., more into separation, selfishness, darkness, or left-hand-path cultishness. I don't believe any infinite or transcendental soul teachers have ever recommended using substances to find God.

All the best, Ed

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:05:34 EST
Subject: drugs and spiritual experiences

Dear friends of the Michael list:

I find this a really intriguing topic... and what comes to mind is the sacred void within us all. For me, I had a God-sized whole in me that only God could fill... that only a spiritual solution could fully heal. I tried everything BUT... and God, sadly, was the last thing I turned to. How amusing it is to me today that God was the last thing I thought I needed, yet the only thing that fully sustained me.

Now, I realize a lot of people have a problem with that word "God." And that's okay by me. But for me, God is no longer a swear word. And God is who I called and cried to on my knees... and God is who I believe answered my prayers. So I can call God all those other names, too, like Source/All That Is... etc. and often DO, but truthfully, I have wondered why I avoid the name of that which finally and most completely filled that sacred void within me? So I say God did...

Also, I feel like a lot of younger people come to spiritweb looking for a connection to that God-place within themselves and find maybe a lot of ET/Wiccan/far-out cosmic expressions. I am not judging that at all... so please do not become defensive. I believe that God meets us whereever we are, in a form of expression that is personal to each and everyone of us... and if I thought God could only find me one way, then I am sure that is where he/she would find me. I mean, we all know what we are talking about... we all know that we are simply expressing our own personal experience with Spirit... but why do we avoid that word? What is it exactly that threatens us so when we hear it?

For me, that word threatened to remind me of what I perceived as a betrayal on God's part... a betrayal because I could not seem to find the God of the bible or of my youth anywhere in the world. I resented those that could say God loved them. That simply was not my experience. And I especially resented those that said my faith was not strong enough and/or that my doubt was too strong for God to enter in. So, I turned to the closest sensation I could find that felt like unconditional love.....drugs and alcohol. And I distinctly remember that I could time exactly how long it would take to feel that feeling of unconditional love.... about 20 minutes after taking a pill or a drink... and then a warmth would wave through my body... and then I would feel alright for as long as I was in control of that high, and as long as I didn't run out of my supply...

That's just my experience with mind and mood altering drugs. And maybe some of you 12-steppers will recognize my words and know I went the 12-step route for a time. But personally, drugs were no more my solution than any 12-step program was... God was the solution for me... God is what saved me from myself. It was NOT having a conscious contact with an expression of God that drove me to seek in the first place. But I guess I had to let go of any and all expectations of how and where that would happen. I had to give-up and allow myself to be led in a way that God would personalize for me, and in a way that God knew I would recognize deep within me. Cuz it seems to me, that is where God finds us: within. And if I am all scrambled on mind or mood altering drugs, then I probably would doubt the validity of any spiritual experience....

Funny how all I had to do was ASK... but I decided for myself that no God of the bible would find me worthy enough to answer...... funnier still, no God of the bible DID answer!! But God did... and drugs no longer have an attraction for me. I've been clean and sober for 14 years.... and honestly, I do not know how THAT works... but I think maybe Deepak Chopra is where I read that I had a God-size whole in me that only God could fill. And I agree... it's become my experience... and, oh, what a wonderful ride it's been ever since!!

Thanks for listening,
-Ocallah

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:37:48 EST
Subject: My 2 cents: drugs and spiritual experiences

I feel that drugs are here as tools. But, only as process to greater knowledge. I also feel that one has to be strong within themselves before using them and recognize and respect the power that is offered through them. Like any tool toward spirituality/self growth, it can be abused and confused with what the true goal may be... ie. Addiction or the inability to receive insights with out the drug. It can open a path. But, then is not longer necessary once one learns this path. Like a key, once the door is unlocked, you no longer need it. But, how is it any different from any other key one may choose? Meditation, exhaustion... Any number of things may be used to quiet the conscious mind. And likewise abused... It sounds like the idea of "drugs" may hold an emotional charge for you. Try seeing it as simple as a tool, a hammer. It can construct or destroy.