Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 02:21:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Michael on old souls and channeling
I just ran across some channeling I did in April, 1996 about soul ages that I
thought would be of interest. I edited it slightly.
MICHAEL RE: SOUL AGE, ACCURACY, ETC.
Each channel is getting information that is worth examining, and all
students should bear this in mind, even where there are contradictions, both
apparent and real. It is important for each channel to examine discrepancies
between their work and that of others with an open mind in case there are
questions that could be asked that would bridge the gaps. Furthermore, there
is much growth in dealing maturely with disagreements wherever they
appear--these should not be shied away from, neither should they be given too
much importance; they are simply part of the work.
There is a charge around soul age in many students that equates older with
being higher up in the spiritual pecking order, and of course this is not the
case; however, if this is part of the belief structure, it will be impossible
for there to be too many late-level old souls, because that would create a
conflict in the spiritual "power structure." It is similar to the fear that
too many king souls would create conflict, with the kings butting heads and
trying to take over one another's "territory." Therefore, channeling is
sometimes edited to comply with these fears. On the other hand, there is the
belief in other students that if one is a serious student, one must be old,
and if one is very serious, one must be late old. This, too, of course, is not
the case, but when it is part of the channel's belief structure, it can temper
the channeling. So there is need for all of our students to examine their
beliefs about soul age. Some people feel that older souls are wiser. This is
not necessarily the case, either--wisdom is a function of validated
observation, at what-ever soul age, and of a willingness to face the truth no
matter how uncomplimentary it might be. Some late-level old souls have not yet
come to this, even though the potential for it is great. In fact, the older
the soul, the greater the pressure one feels to face the truth, but one can
turn away at any age.
The last-level old souls who become homeless are often those who have
turned away; they feel the pressure to see, but fear has gotten the upper
hand. The sensitivity increases, which in-creases the pain; then alcohol
and/or drugs may be used to dull the pain. These are unfortunate people. The
"realized masters" are those who have allowed the truth to burn away what is
false, but these are not necessarily striking people; they often live simply
and quietly, even those who are cardinally cast. What most characterizes the
latter is their kindness and concern for the well-being of others. This is not
to say that they all revile physicality. Some choose to live very simply
because they do not wish to expend the energy necessary to have more
materially, although they will usually put a priority on having good quality.
We do not impose, and we are usually not willing to force our way through
psychic barriers, which is why rigid beliefs about soul age, for instance, can
cause the information to be in error.
Children have relatively few blocks to love and many exhibit what you would
characterize as wisdom. In an adult who has not learned to hate and be
selfish, you might see this same kind of wisdom, but it may not be conscious
and well-planted from much experience and development of consciousness, and
therefore can be lost under trying circumstances. The wisdom of age can stand
the test of external harshness when the person has validated it.
Q. What percentage of the world's population is 7th old?
Just under 1 percent.
Q. So about 40 million people worldwide?
Maybe about 45 million.
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 11:20:48 -0500
Subject: [Fwd: Michael on old souls and channeling]
Thanks so much for posting that, Shepherd! Very clarifying. :)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 07:00:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Digest No. 1997-11-21 of Michael Teachings List
In a message dated 97-11-21 10:43:02 EST, you write:
>> What brought me to the Michael Teachings in
the first place was
seeing the information on Lori's web page, and feeling that the
teachings would help me understand who I am, why I am here, and what
my purpose is.
This issue of my life task, the one big issue or project or
whatever I am supposed to be working on, continues to elude me. It
has always been a concern for me, but over the past year this has
escalated to near frenzy. I absolutely know that there is something
I need to be doing, but am not. And I don't have a clue what that
is. It is really beginning to bother me. <<
I, too, feel my life task eludes me but i have recently learned that it is
not necessarily in "my time" that i will experience this. I just "know" I am on
a path toward it. I am very new to this list, but enjoy reading and sometimes
responding. I am working on a new way of living, via 12 step program, and
believe that is how the Michael teachings are being introduced in my life. There
are so many correlations! I guess I needed to experience the "bottom" I
experienced to become openminded enough to "remember" these principles. (I was
introduced to them about 6 years ago but was way too self centered to
understand) I am grateful to have this space to learn more as I am an eager
Love and Light to you all
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 10:17:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Digest No. 1997-11-21 of Michael Teachings List
Welcome to the list, R.Marren, and thanks for posting!
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 07:53:54 -0700
From: Gloria Constantin
Subject: Things to Remember...
On 24 November 1997, Kate McMurray wrote:
"Wow, Gloria. That's some intense stuff. What
got you through it and when did it start to break. Or has it?"
This is my answer:
I am crushed beneath the implacable weight of depair, of endless sorrow
birthed of endless bitter memories, endlessly remembering the beauty and the
pain and endlessly echoing their ancient sorrows through the corridors of time,
through the passages of time, and time, of course, passes. This is so
inexorable, this pain is so inevitable, and it is all I've ever known.
I have seen the ravaged face of hopelessness stamped on hopelessness, that
wide-eyed, unblinking catatonia that knows there are no promises left in any
tomorrows. I am as still and silent as I can be. I cannot breathe, I cannot
live, and yet, I live.
Every death remembers every other death I've known. Resurrecting, despite my
cries to the contrary, all the corpses of everything I should have become, and
everyone I've ever loved. Every death recalls every separation, every
abandonment, every loss and betrayal, and every instance in which I misjudged
the impact of the moment, the oh-my-god unutterable and fragile beauty of the
When I have no authority and no jurisdiction over these proceedings, why
feel? It is a mockery and a travesty of life! To live like this, a gutted
eyeless corpse that yet sees and knows all, is more than I can bear. I am a
piece of living driftwood, knocked about by random currents, battered by rocks,
by the sun, by time, a particle of sand, a windswept mote destined without
destiny, eventually to be dissolved to nothingness and devoured within the eons
I reel despairing, and clutch at my impotence. I want to die--to be
obliterated, to have this capacity to feel no more--no more! But I have no
choice: I feel. Unremittingly and irrevocably. Irredeemably and irrefutably. And
I will feel until I die. There is no choice in this, the dying or the feeling. I
am devoured again and again, and still I am.
I kneel in the midst of this dessert, an ancient, blanched skeleton, and
raise my arms past the harsh winds, into the blaze of rising sun. I ask only to
be given the courage to surrender. That is all I ask. I am frozen in a timeless
space, permanently beseeching whatever will hear me. I am blown from this place
and travel through great darkness, but in a little while I feel my blood course.
I have surrendered to the Will that is not mine, and yet is mine. Simultaneous
with the crushing weight of this death that is no death, I feel the breath of
new life. I feel a love so deep, so strong, I know it never left me. It was
there, in the midst of the hottest fire, waiting patiently for me to accept its
WE CANNOT DIE. WE TRANSFORM. EVERY DAY OF YOUR LIFE, SURRENDER TO ETERNAL
LOVE, TO ITS LIGHT.
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 11:21:34 -0500
Subject: [Fwd: Things to Remember...]
Gloria, thanks for your post! Being a poet myself, my first response is to
say: It sounds like you transform your pain into art. Your reply read like
lyrical poetry to me. To be able to do that implies a certain distance from your
pain. I've personally, over the years, found that kind of "process work" to be
very healing. Does it work that way for you?
On a practical note (warning: I'm a Pragmatist, and I've been a therapist, so
I'm always looking for grounded solutions <G>), it sounds as if you have been
suffering for years from very serious clinical depression. Have you sought any
medical help for this? It is not something to be taken lightly, and it *can* be
helped, both by conventional and alternative means.
I speak on this from experience. As you may recall a while back we had a
discussion on this list about how common depression is to Old Souls, and many
spoke up discussing openly their struggles with depression. It is a serious
concern and one we can all lend our support to each other about.
In our own family, currently my husband, daughter and I (who are all Old
Souls) are taking St. John's Wort, and I find exercise, support from friends,
and other "natural" things I can mention (if you want) help a lot with
alleviating depression (and the anxiety that is often paired with it), if you
are opposed to Prozac and other medical drugs. Homeopathics, in particular, can
be of great help.
Also, this time of year many people suffer from Seasonal Affective Disorder
(SAD). Do you know if you get more depressed in the fall and winter?
Best wishes to you for healing!
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 10:59:04 -0500
Subject: Getting a Michael Reading
Since we frequently get "newbies" on the list who are both new to not only
the list but the Michael Teachings themselves, I thought I would post part of a
reply I just did to Chris M by e-mail today in case other people may need this
The Michael Teachings are a very practical set of ideas meant to be applied
and tested to one's own life. They aren't mysterious (that is, "esoteric,"
extremely complex and hard to understand). However, it *does* take at least a
little effort to learn the basic material. There are a couple dozen books
available on the Michael channelings, and one needs to read at least one or two
of the basic books.
Learning the basic information about the Michael Teachings, IMO, is not
nearly as complicated as astrology. Speaking as a professional numerologist, I'd
say if one is aiming at full proficiency at understanding the Michael Teachings
and becoming "fluent" with the jargon, one would have to learn just about what
one would to master numerology.
Many people who come on this Michael list and other Michael "bulletin boardss"
I've participated in over the years elsewhere (such as on GEnie) are very
interested in getting a "reading," Of course. That's natural. But it's important
to realize before you request one that a Michael reading is a highly specialized
kind of reading. It is not like a general channeled reading given in regular
English you get from a "regular" channel. It uses it's on unique terminology. If
you don't know what the terminology means, the reading will make little sense to
If you don't have the time or inclination to get really versed on the Michael
stuff, many of the experienced Michael channels are willing to not only channel
for you what your overleaves are but explain what each one means. Of course,
hourly rates for Michael channels (just as for any channel or astrologer) range
from $100-200/hour. So if you are on a budget, it can be much more cost
effective (as well as meaningful to you) if you take the time, before a reading
with anyone, to figure out what your overleaves are by, as I say, reading at
least one basic Michael book. (The Personality Puzzle is particularly effective
for this. It asks you a series of questions that allow you to systematically
figure out what your overleaves are. You can order this on the internet through
Jose Stevens' web site and at several other Michael channels' web sites.)
Initially, most people just want to find out for sure what their overleaves
are. Once you have either first tried to figure out what you think they are--or
not, you can send what you have tried to figure out (or explain you know little
about the teachings) along with a photo of yourself to any of the Michael
channels and payment. They will then "check" with Michael via the Akashic
Records as to what your overleaves actually are. (BTW, our own accuracy in
figuring out our overleaves can be strongly affected by how much we clearly know
ourselves. That kind of self-knowledge can vary from person to person
Most Michael channels charge from between $20-40 for a one-page listing of
what your overleaves are. Shepherd Hoodwin, I understand (correct me on this if
I am wrong, Shepherd) also sends a short tape with a basic overleaf reading.
Friends of mine got this reading and felt it was a "great value for the money."
Joya Pope from our list also offers this type of service, and I'm sure that
Kay Kamala (my mentor) would be willing to do something like that, too. As
probably would Jose Stevens.
Barbara Taylor, if you are reading this note, do you do this sort of reading?
You can also order all available Michael books at many of the Michael
channels' web pages. Kay, Shepherd and Joya have a web page, as does Barbara
Taylor, Jose Stevens and Emily Baumbach. Others may have web pages as well.
BTW, another function that Michael channels serve, once you are *thoroughly*
versed in the terminology of the Michael Teachings, is to channel for you
information about your life, that is, your karmas (relationship agreements, life
work, health issues, etc.). Most channels can do it over the phone and will tape
the session and send you the tape. It is well worth it! (You can also get these
sorts of readings if you don't know the terminology well, but, again, bear in
mind you will have to pay for the time it takes for the channel to explain what
the terms mean.)
Hope this information is helpful. :)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:02:14 -0500
Subject: Getting a Reading
I showed Kay Kamala, a very experienced Michael Channel, my post on getting a
reading, and asked her to verify what I had said about her services. This is her
I very much liked what you posted about the
and the "how to's" of channeling and getting a reading.
I would say that I do a good job of the Michael Basics, and now
specialize in relationship dynamics, (karmas and agreements), life-cycle
issues, and spiritual development. Like a few other other channels, I have
one foot firmly planted in psychological causation for life issues, and one
in the skies. I consider my greatest asset as being able to interpret and
integrate both worlds, walking freely between them, and offering both as help.
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 11:42:28 -0800
Subject: Re: Saddan Hussein's Overleaves
Kate et all: According to Emily Baumbach, overleaves are:
Saddam Hussein. Role: Warrior, Perspective: Competing (young soul), Center:
Moving, Attitude: Idealist, Mode: Aggression, Goal: Dominance, Dragon:
Arrogance, Influence: Priest (ET) Adolph Hitler. Role: Priest, Perspective:
Learning (baby soul), Center: Instinctive, Attitude: Idealist, Mode:
Aggression, Goal: Dominance, Dragon: Greed, Influence: Warrior (ET)
Jose has also mentioned that young souls love to control and dominate baby
souls. Controlling baby souls is done by convincing them that someone has more
authority than they do (Or, by being bolder/stronger, etc -- they want someone
to be the "parent" figure).
We asked Aaron/Michael about the middle east situation last week and his take is
the same as Jose's -- that area will continue to be unstable because of the mix
of folks there, however, it is not likely to generate world war 3. We do have to
keep an eye on them. The Stevens have postponed return trips to Egypt for that
reason (not wanting to put people at risk).
Shepherd, thanks for that post on soul ages :)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:27:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Digest No. 1997-11-26 of Michael Teachings List
<< Shepherd, thanks for that post on soul ages
You're welcome, Barbara!
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 22:31:29 +0100
Subject: Re: Saddan Hussein's Overleaves
These "Perspectives" rather than soul ages are very interesting. Could you
post the others to the list please? At a guess I would say that Infant Souls are
in "Surviving" perspective and Mature Souls are in "Relating", but that could of
course be wide of the mark. I have several ideas about what the Old Soul
perspective would be, but no favourite.
"The road to enlightenment is long and difficult; better bring snacks... and
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 20:14:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Saddan Hussein's Overleaves
To me, Saddam Hussein strongly gives off the smug, complacent vibe of 7th
level baby. I think he may be flipping into 1st level young at times. :)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 22:01:25 -0700
From: Gloria Constantin
Subject: Alleged Clinical Depression
You know Kate--what you described as lyrical poetry was my attempt to convey
the death-in-life experience of an aspect, and specifically, my experience of a
passage of the fourth internal monad. Ultimately, I was saying that surrender is
the key to getting through it. I do not understand how you interpolated from
this description that I have been suffering for years from serious clinical
depression. I will also tell you that I do not appreciate your calling attention
to the fact that you were once a therapist, thereby possibly lending credence
via a professional observation about my mental/emotional/spiritual status.
I am not a pragmatist--I am a spiritualist, and as such have a very strong
connection to unseen dimensions and the bigger picture. In this picture, life
has no end and no beginning, and the threats and dangers of this third dimension
are considerably diluted by this view. And as a spiritualist, I can slide to
stoicism, and there I detach from the various agonies that will inevitably from
time to time come into our human experience.
It is true that I use emotion and painful emotion to create art. That is how
I have brought audiences to their own catharsis through tears they've shed over
characters I've played, over songs I've sung. I have imbued these with
tremendous passion, passion which became artful expressions of this life
If I am indeed seriously clinically depressed, then I am also powerfully
functional in the young soul world. I have been taking care of myself by myself
for a long, long time. And I will continue to do so, as far as my eye can see.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 01:11:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Things to Remember...]
In a message dated 97-11-24 12:44:24 EST, Kate McMurry writes:
<< Gloria, thanks for your post! Being a poet
myself, my first response is
to say: It sounds like you transform your pain into art. Your reply read
like lyrical poetry to me. To be able to do that implies a certain
distance from your pain. I've personally, over the years, found that
kind of "process work" to be very healing. Does it work that way for you?
On a practical note (warning: I'm a Pragmatist, and I've been a
therapist, so I'm always looking for grounded solutions <G>), it sounds
as if you have been suffering for years from very serious clinical
depression. Have you sought any medical help for this? It is not
something to be taken lightly, and it *can* be helped, both by
conventional and alternative means. >>
That's very helpful information, Kate, but I know Gloria fairly well, and I
don't think she suffers from clinical depression. She's the prototypical Sage,
and was simply painting a lush verbal canvas to add some color to her post and
possibly fulfill her needs for expression. I believe her post was about learning
that despite the negative aspects of her earlier years, the best path to
spiritual evolution comes when we surrender to essence. Essentially, this is a
woman who has a lot on her plate, but still manages to be highly functional on a
day to day basis. I admire her openness and courage to be willing to reveal this
vulnerable side of her life.
Regardless, keep those posts coming, Kate. I always enjoy your insights. :-)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 03:05:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Saddan Hussein's Overleaves
Thanks for your feedback! I tend to agree with Christopher:
> To me, Saddam Hussein strongly gives off the
smug, complacent vibe of
> 7th level baby.
> I think he may be flipping into 1st level young at times. :)
BTW, FWIW, in an opposite kind of disagreement, I also have to disagree with
Emily that Stephen King is a Baby Soul. Intuitively, and pragmatically
(examining the type of work he produces) he seems to me very much a Mature Soul.
What is your take on this, Christopher? You are the big Stephen King fan. <G>
> > Kate et all: According to Emily Baumbach,
> > Saddam Hussein. Role: Warrior, Perspective: Competing (young soul),
> > Center: Moving, Attitude: Idealist, Mode: Aggression, Goal:
> > Dominance, Dragon: Arrogance, Influence: Priest (ET)
OK, FWIW, here's what I get on Saddam. Not totally different, but some of it
a bit more fleshed out:
--Priest Role (he is much too wily, IMO, to be a Warrior Role and his frequency
is too high)
--Imprints from mother and father are very weak, but they are both Baby souls,
mother Artisan, father Scholar
--Focused Energy (linear, one-pointed, initiating) 45
--Creative Energy (intuitive, diffuse, receptive) 55
--Goal: Dominance (same)
--Mode: Aggression (same)
--Attitude: Idealist (same)
--Chief Negative Feature aka Dragon: #1 Arrogance (same), #2 Greed
--Center: Moving (same), Intellectual part
--Body type: Martial 75%, Mercurial 25%
> > Adolph Hitler. Role: Priest, Perspective:
Learning (baby soul),
> > Center: Instinctive, Attitude: Idealist, Mode: Aggression,
> > Goal: Dominance, Dragon: Greed, Influence: Warrior (ET)
I get agreement on all of the above on Hitler. Thanks for sharing it! :)
> > Jose has also mentioned that young souls
love to control and
> > dominate baby souls. Controlling baby souls is done by convincing
> > them that someone has more authority than they do (Or, by being
> > bolder/stronger, etc -- they want someone to be the "parent" figure).
Yes, this very much jives with what I'm getting both intellectually and
intuitively in my study of the Teachings on Baby Souls. They are like "monkey
see, monkey do" toddlers in this regard.
BTW, very interesting that Emily and Jose have individually come up with more
"mainstream" terms for the soul ages. I relate very much to Jose's choice of
developmental psychology terms. But Emily's are interesting, too. What is her
whole set of terms, do you know, Barbara?
> > We asked Aaron/Michael about the middle east
situation last week
> > and his take is the same as Jose's -- that area will continue to be
> > unstable because of the mix of folks there, however, it is not likely to
> > generate world war 3. We do have to keep an eye on them. The Stevens
> > have postponed return trips to Egypt for that reason (not wanting to put
> > people at risk).
How to the Stevens "keep an eye on them"? Do they do any energy work around
the situation? Or are you just talking about checking in with Michael
periodically about what's up?
> > Shepherd, thanks for that post on soul ages
My thanks again, too, Shepherd. It was very, very useful!
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 03:05:57 -0500
Subject: [Fwd: Alleged Clinical Depression]
> You know Kate--what you described as lyrical
poetry was my attempt to
> convey the death-in-life experience of an aspect, and specifically, my
> experience of a passage of the fourth internal monad. Ultimately, I
> was saying that surrender is the key to getting through it. I do not
> understand how you interpolated from this description that I have been
> suffering for years from serious clinical depression. I will also
> tell you that I do not appreciate your calling attention to the fact that
> you were once a therapist, thereby possibly lending credence via a
> professional observation about my mental/emotional/spiritual status.
Sorry, no desire to offend you. I wasn't so much trying to give "credibility"
to what I was saying as trying to be honest about "where I'm coming from." I
personally always like to know the biases and so forth of people when they
Anyway, not that it means anything, or is a further attempt to label you in a
way you find confining, but what you seem to have revealed of yourself in your
posts very much reminds me of my sister who is 7th level old, has been heavily
into theater many years of this lifetime (as well as dance and choreography).
She (in my perhaps limited, mature-soul-psychology bound view) has been
seriously depressed for many years and, like you, prefers not to think of "it"
(whatever we may want to call "it"), her pain, despair, angst, separation from
other humans, in that kind of terminology. Unlike you, however, she has hardly
left her house for about 7 years now (she is 47, a year older than me, and very
much in her 4th monad).
> I am not a pragmatist--I am a spiritualist,
and as such have a very
> strong connection to unseen dimensions and the bigger picture. In
> this picture, life has no end and no beginning, and the threats and dangers
> of this third dimension are considerably diluted by this view. And as
> a spiritualist, I can slide to stoicism, and there I detach from the
> various agonies that will inevitably from time to time come into our
> human experience.
This description, too, very much reminds me of my sister's take on life.
> It is true that I use emotion and painful
emotion to create art. That
> is how I have brought audiences to their own catharsis through tears
> they've shed over characters I've played, over songs I've sung. I
> have imbued these with tremendous passion, passion which became artful
> expressions of this life experience.
I notice this, too, in my sister's theater work.
> If I am indeed seriously clinically depressed,
then I am also
> powerfully functional in the young soul world. I have been taking
> care of myself by myself for a long, long time. And I will continue
> to do so, as far as my eye can see.
That's great. You are alone, and revel in that aloneness. Why not, if it
feels right to you?
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 03:07:40 -0500
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Things to Remember...]]
> That's very helpful information, Kate, but I
know Gloria fairly well,
> and I don't think she suffers from clinical depression. She's the
> prototypical Sage, and was simply painting a lush verbal canvas to
> add some color to her post and possibly fulfill her needs for expression.
> I believe her post was about learning that despite the negative aspects
> of her earlier years, the best path to spiritual evolution comes when we
> surrender to essence.
> Essentially, this is a woman who has alot on her plate, but still manages to
> be highly functional on a day to day basis. I admire her openness and
> courage to be willing to reveal this vulnerable side of her life.
That's good to know. I have a tendency to "mother" people too much and worry
about people who seem deeply in pain. Hope that isn't too intrusive or
> Regardless, keep those posts coming, Kate. I
always enjoy your insights. :-)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 00:11:42 -0800
Subject: [Fwd: Idealist v Spiritualist]
Thanks, Barbara. I still need to think about idealists vs. spiritualists.
I've been channeled as a spiritualist but I can see both...and I don't slide to
<<if mankind was drowning in the ocean and you
could only save half,
who would you save?>> I'd save the person closest to me first, then
there would be two ... if each person saved did the same, could the
world be saved? I happen to believe in miracles :)
That's beautiful. And my point to jclark is that we CAN'T do it all by
ourselves. We can only hope (and persuade, if you're feeling Priestly ;-D ) that
others will jump in and help, too. Thank you for a lovely response to dismal
(although rhetorical) question.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:22:54 +0200
Subject: Old souls in other countries
Good day friends
It was with great interest that I read Kate's post about pockets of old souls
in the US. The only information (Michael channelled) I could find on m country to date was from a black/white and
old/new government perspective.
Also, from what I have read so far, I understood that Iceland, Holland,
Switzerland and the Czech Republic are old soul countries. I was wondering if
there are any members from these countries on our list who would like to tell us
more about how they perceive the differences between these and other countries.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:31:30 +0200
Subject: Remedies for depression
I have a mother and a sister who suffer from clinical depression from time to
time. I would love to hear about the natural remedies that you could recommend.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:44:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Saddam and Middle east
Dear All - Saddam is young, not baby, for definite reasons (besides that he
was channeled so!)
There is no religious fundamentalism either in him personally or in the state
he has created. Like Assad of Syria, Saddam deliberately created a secular
totalitarian empire. The Ba'ath ruling party organization in both countries had
a basically secular socialist line, as did Nasser in Egypt. These movements had
overthrown the traditional feudal rulers. There was originally an intent to
modernize and reform the traditional society. I don't know how strong the
idealism was or how long it lasted before the heavy characters completely took
over. Quite a few other third-world countries had similar regimes combining
elements of reform ideology, nationalism and dictatorship, though often with a
fake democracy veneer over it.
Had Saddam been a baby soul he would have imposed some religious or
quasi-religious (like Marxism or Nazism) system on the people. He would have
done so because he believed in it and believed it was his positive duty to push
it on his people. I don't see Saddam as fitting this mold.
The man is much too competent at game playing to be a baby soul. He has to be
one of the world's historically shrewdest totalitarian leaders. He combines
utter ruthlessness towards his enemies with very sophisticated tricks to
maintain his popularity among the cowed masses. He survives because he is of
equal or older soul age to his competitors and enemies.
One other point about the Middle East, and it applies to "earth changes" as
well. We have to remember that all those baby and young souls do have love and
life within them; they are not just faceless masses to be regarded with
prejudice. Every one of them has a life and purpose, family and so on, and they
are creating continuity, that is, tomorrow and the day after tomorrow life will
go on just like today, perhaps with gradual change. They do not want to suffer,
or die. They don't want to see their families killed. They dream of freedom and
pretty girls and life on a beach. They are NOT cocreating their own mass
destruction or anyone else's. If a leader like Saddam plays on our fears by
scaring us into believing that he or his people are willing to create mass
destruction, it is just a bluff and a trick. Don't be fooled. The baby and young
souls of the Middle east are very, very tired of war, hatred and unfreedom and
are yearning to come into the 21st century with the rest of us.
All the best, Ed
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:27:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Old souls in other countries
> It was with great interest that I read Kate's
post about pockets of
> old souls in the US. The only
> information (Michael channelled) I could find on m country to date
> was from a black/white and old/new government perspective.
> Also, from what I have read so far, I understood that Iceland,
> Holland, Switzerland and the Czech Republic are old soul countries. I was
> wondering if there are any members from these countries on our list
> who would like to tell us more about how they perceive the differences
> between these and other countries.
Thanks for posting this question. I'm hoping for some feedback!
If we don't get any direct experiences around this stuff, maybe we can try
and ask Michael about it.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:27:48 -0500
Subject: [Fwd: Remedies for depression]
> I have a mother and a sister who suffer from
clinical depression from
> time to time. I would love to hear about the natural remedies that
> you could recommend.
I had to throw out my original foray into an answer for this, because I found
myself wanting to write a book on the subject. <G> This is something I've lived
with and worked with for a looong time now, so, I have a lot of thoughts on the
Let me try to just offer a few bare, unexplained suggestions. I find I cannot
explain briefly enough for this format.
--St John's wort, 300 mg. 3x/day
--flax oil, 1-3 tsp./day
--exercise, regular, at least 30-45 minutes/day, five days a week, preferably
walking, which is very grounding
--standard healthful diet: 5 or more servings (about 1/2 cup) of fruits and
vegetables/day, adequate protein, 8-10 glasses pure water/day, whole grains and
beans or psyllium in order to achieve the recommended 30 grams of fiber/day
--minimal vitamin-mineral supplementation, with attention to calcium and
magnesium, which are very calming
--adequate sleep (if you have trouble sleeping, homeopathic or herbal remedies
abound in health food stores)
--regularly associate with at least one person who likes and respects you and
who can mirror back to you a picture of yourself that is not shame-based (John
Bradshaw quote, "guilt means 'I made a mistake,' but shame means 'I *am* a
--find someone you can regularly talk to about your thoughts and feelings, be it
a friend, your journal or a therapist you respect
--consider going to a good, experienced homeopath who can recommend a
"constitutional" remedy. "Acute" remedies are for immediate, short-term
problems, such as injuries and colds and flu. "Constitutional" remedies address
long-term problems. Note that homeopathy, with the right practitioner, can even
address deep-seated, interlife karmic patterns.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:31:09 -0800
Subject: Re: Things to Remember About the Mid-Life Passage (1997-46/51)
| From: John
| Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:47:54 +0000
| > Essence is stepping out, leading the way. The urge to manifest the
| > life task/s becomes quite powerful, even overwhelming, and the worst
| > part is that you really don't have a flipping clue what that is.
| We had this discussion on the list a couple of months ago. I started
| the thread by asking about how one discovers one's life task. The
| majority of the answers said basically don't worry about it, you don't
| necessarily have one, or you are placing too much importance on this
| issue, go play the game.
| What brought me to the Michael Teachings in the first place was seeing
| the information on Lori's web page, and feeling that the teachings would
| help me understand who I am, why I am here, and what my purpose is.
| This issue of my life task, the one big issue or project or whatever I
| am supposed to be working on, continues to elude me. It has always been
| a concern for me, but over the past year this has escalated to near
| frenzy. I absolutely know that there is something I need to be doing,
| but am not. And I don't have a clue what that is. It is really
| beginning to bother me.
| I guess on a subliminal level I do fear change somewhat, but overtly
| I strongly desire for this change to happen. My fear to continue
| manifesting Maya is much greater than my fear of missing the prime
| opportunity to manifest essence. I WANT THIS TO HAPPEN!
One of the things I asked at my first private channel session just over two
years ago was, "What is my life task?" I expressed no uneasiness or apprehension
- I just wanted to know.
The first thing Michael did was assure me that not all life tasks are
monumental or earth-shaking. I hadn't tried to imply otherwise, but evidently
many students feel their life tasks are.
They then proceeded to tell me that my life task is simply my own spiritual
growth. I think they expected me to be disappointed, but I wasn't. In fact, I
wasn't even surprised, as it makes perfect sense based on what had transpired up
to that point (it still does, BTW).
I think Dave's remarks in (1997-46/56) are well said. It might also be the
case that some people are doing their life tasks without realizing it.
In _Journey_ on page 234 Shepherd gives 4 examples of life task summaries.
The first 3 are rather large-scale, while the 4th is "integrating the lessons of
many past lives." So the scope can vary greatly.
Shepherd goes on to say, "Every life task is a focused way of allowing our
essence to manifest in our life, and any time we are aligned with our essence,
whatever we are doing contributes to our completing our life task, if only
Digging further in my archives I find this in _More Messages_ -
The life task is what can be most easily accomplished by the focused and
realized action of essence. In other words, when you are acting in essence,
any work accomplished under its influence, even if it is only transplanting
petunias, leads to the development of work on the life task. In a very real
sense, attaining that state "is" the life task. /180
And from _Michael's People_ -
The purpose of the life task is to use the focused energy of the essence in
the framework of capabilities provided by the Overleaves. In a very real
sense, the Overleaves are chosen to permit the fragment to complete the life
task, should the fragment choose to do so. /28
Regards, Dick [2.1(3)/5/4.2-144=4.7.3<5.150/4.5=26/4.11>]
Dick Hein / Mountain View, California.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:32:01 -0800
Subject: A little more on 7th Old
While going back over the early Yarbro books looking for a reference, I found
a couple of passages that pertain to the Old/7 cycle. They are both from
You do not feel the desire to seek the remaining fragments of your entity
until the last physical cycle. Then, at that time, there is almost a
compulsion. You do not always know why you do, but you always seek. /65
Final-level old souls rarely seek remunerative employment for any period of
Dick Hein / Mountain View, California.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:38:55 -0500
Subject: Life Task
Dick Hein wrote: ...
Thanks for taking time to find and post all that great information! :)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:06:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Saddam and Middle east
> Dear All - Saddam is young, not baby, for
definite reasons (besides that he > was channeled so!)
I have to disagree... I get a strong sense of, as I mentioned in my previous
post, a smug and complacent energy to Saddam. Seventh level, IMO. And as he
can't be 7th young, because there is not the slightest wiff of mature in him, I
get 7th level baby. :)
BTW, I'm glad you brought up "definite reasons". With a goal discrimination,
I find myself questioning *all* channelings. Just because Emily, or Aaron, or
Jose, or Shepard, or Kate, or anybody says that someone is such-and-such,
doesn't mean that I will necessarily buy into it. If their take doesn't match
mine, I want to see the "definite reasons" why. You did a good job in stating
why Saddam is a young soul, but I still see him as 7th baby.
Kate brought up in a recent post the example of Stephen King. He's listed in
Emily Baumbach's Cast of Characters book as being an early baby soul. I think
this must have been based on that fact that he writes a lot of horror books, and
as such he must be dealing with a lot of instinctual fears. But having read most
of his books, I can tell you that in my opinion there's no way that he's a baby
soul, much less an early baby soul. My strong take on King is that he's a mature
soul. In _Rose Madder_, which is a fantasy/suspense story of a woman trying to
break free from her domineering husband, he really does a great job of getting
inside of the emotional life of a woman on the edge.
Anyway, that's just my 2 cents. :)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 06:20:51 +0900 (JST)
From: Jose C
Subject: Re: Old souls in other countries
At 09:17 25/11/1997 -0000, Elizabeth Ferreira wrote:
> Good day friends
> It was with great interest that I read Kate's post about pockets of old
> souls in the US. I'm from South Africa and was wondering if anyone has
> any knowledge of pockets of old souls in this country (SA).
Just in case you are not aware of this, I refer you to Joya Pope's home page.
She has an extensive casual account of her trip to South Africa earlier this
year. Sometimes sad (in the parts reminding me of my crime-ridden Rio de
Janeiro), but generally pleasant reading, not necessarily channeled material,
but perceptions from a Michael teacher/channeler.
> information (Michael channelled) I could find
on South Africa to date was > from a black/white and old/new government
I think that Joya Pope's book Upcoming Changes (see her home page) goes a bit
further than that, giving an overall view of South Africa. As far as I remember,
it does not get into soul pockets which should require localized reading. She is
on this mailing list and may be able to refer you to other Michael
students/channels in SA. Right now she is convalescing from a an airbag
slash-and-squash she suffered in a car crash, but we hope that soon she'll be
back on the keyboard.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:11:07 -0400
Subject: RV: A little more on 7th Old
Hi Dick and All,
I really appreciate the effort you´ve gone to to share what you´ve found
because even though I am new to the Michael teachings I have found clarity
confirmation and kindred souls here.
What you found below about the compulsion to seek remaining fragments explains
what has dominated this entire life for me .It also explains why seeking outside
employment has not called me as I must be free to go and do what Im drawn to do
in the moment.....this also calls for the same freedom in relationships and my
marriage has transformed enc redibly to accomodate my spiritual compulsions
/searchings/callings and I feel grateful that I have the benefits of being in a
relationship and the freedom I need to live out my tasks and expressing my
Bouts of occasional severe depression fit as well and I appreciate the info
about St John´s wort in case I run accross another one....I´m 36 so it is
Also I have memories of agreements I made before incarnating this time in
order to complete this cycle of lives and I remember it being an encredibly
large task to complete...lots of karma to balance.....but if I succeed and I
have every intention of doing so...then this will be my last life.I´ve rarely
shared this with others because it hasn´t really felt appropriate and I also
didn´t feel a need for others judgements or opinions as to whether or not this
was possible...I believe I probably know whats true for me better than those not
living in my skin or soul.
So far I can pretty much identify with just about everything you´ve all
shared and have relished the renewed clarity and confidence in my life
experience that the Michael teachings reveal and I feel encouraged to keep on
searching and integrating those fragments I have been shown lately and I thank
you for your generous gifts.The websites you suggested have been great . Thanks
Barbara and Lori. If there´s others I´d like to visit them too.
I´m considering having a Michael confirmation done and perhaps some guidance
on uniting my fragments and completing some karmic ties but this is my
situation.I live in Chile,South America at the moment(hello to all you people
around Orange County....I lived there many years) Anyway I am a bit isolated as
far as snail mail is concerned and rely on e-mail for almost all communication(
I just learned how to use a computer 2 months ago) as I prefer face to face
contact but its rarely possible at this time.I do have a telephone but its very
expensive.Is anyone drawn to doing a reading for me by e-mail? I can phone you
with credit card info for payment.Like I said Im considering it but am not clear
on it yet and since I would need to use my husbands card (I dont use them
normally) I need to clear this with him also.I also am a Reiki master and could
do some exchange of energy in this form also (I prefer this as I enjoy it so
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:25:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Happy Bird Day!!!!!!
I wish you all a great Thanksgiving, but beware of bad bird. ;-p
SIGNS THAT YOU PURCHASED A BAD TURKEY ;-p
- A label on the package says "suggested serving": 1 bite
- The stuffing looks suspiciously like the contents of your cat's litter box.
- Men wearing white suits and oxygen masks arrive at your door and ask if you
have next of kin?
- A sticker on the side of the package says "Made by Disincarnate Spirits
with an attitude."
- The cooking details on the package seem to be instructions on how to build
- It tastes suspiciously like "beef jerky."
- While eating the turkey you fall into a deep sleep, only to awaken hours
later with several hickies on your neck and a crumpled note on your chest from
Richard Simmons that says, "Thanks! I'll call you." :-)
- You unwrap the package and find yourself assaulted by the stench of pubic
- The day after Thanksgiving you grow small vestigial wings.
- When you carve the turkey 1050 discarnate spirits leap out onto the table
and offer you three wishes in trade for a piece of pecan pie.
- After eating the turkey you begin to see visions that you're walking
towards the light and dead relatives are greeting you.
HAPPY DEAD BIRD DAY EVERYONE! :-)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:30:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Happy Bird Day!!!!!!
This is Priceless.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:59:13 -0800
Subject: Depression and Detoxification
Hi Kate and all,
I'd like to add something I've come to feel is very important in healing the
body, physically and psychologically. It is something Michael has talked a lot
about in Stephen Cocconi's and Holly Coleman's channelings as well.
Our bodies get so toxic from the processed and pesticide/drug/poison laden
food that we eat, it's no wonder people suffer from so many various diseases,
many of which don't even have a name yet. Some of the most recent ones have been
multiple chemical sensitivity, chronic fatigue syndrom, and many other
auto-immune disorders that make our bodies basically attack themselves as the
immune system, battered and confused by all these foreign substances, mistakes
our own cells as foreign intruders. What these chemicals do to brain chemistry
still has not been fully assessed. Toxicology hasn't progressed far enough to
determine the effects of low-level chemicals below the threshold at which
observable effects are seen in animals that they test. From people I have talked
to, this problem of having toxic bodies seems to have a lot to do with affecting
depression and other emotional problems. This is my observation and intuition,
but not mine alone. I do not claim to have scientific proof of this.
Nevertheless, I can tell you from my experience, that the detoxification of my
own body has made a difference in my life.
The most important thing I have done to detoxify, IMO, has been colonics. No
joke! It may sound gross or repulsive, but this is a very neglected and
important thing. Your colon is the last place your food, with its toxins, goes,
and if you don't take good care of it, toxins build up as harmful parasites and
bacteria (as opposed to the good helpful bacteria like acidophilus and bifidus)
grow on the inside of the colon which gets coated with sticky things that are
undigestable, and with mucous from acid-producing foods (like milk), thereby
rendering the ability of the colon to absorb nutrients unreliable at best. All
that gets absorbed is the toxins produced by the bacteria, and that makes the
liver and kidneys have to work harder to remove these, and makes us tired,
feeling kind of sick but not knowing why, and a host of other things. The toxins
travel to your other organs (your brain included) and who knows what they do
there (not good things obviously.) So the water that is put into the colon
directly during the treatment (and they do an abdominal massage as well, to
dislodge stuff that is stuck to the walls) flushes out just about everything
that is in there at the time--including much of the bacteria, mucous, and
One thing toxins did to me was come out my skin. I had scarring acne for 18
years. Nothing I used made it go away. I resorted to a dermatologist who got me
on Accutane, and while I was on that, my chiropractor recommended the colonics.
She said she'd seen a young man in her class in chiropractic school totally
clear up from a bad case after he'd had many colonics done. I'd known the
principle about cleansing the colon as a means back to good health for a couple
years, and had tried some psyllium and herbal programs, but had a hard time
drinking down all that stuff several times a day for weeks on end, and so I
never finished the program, and had limited results. I decided I'd finally try
the colonics, because I felt my body was so toxic. I found a few colon
therapists listed in our local phone book, and asked my intuitive guidance to
send me to the right one for me, and indeed, the first one I picked turned out
to be a man who has a PhD in Reichian psychology, worked as a chiropractor for
25 years until his own back gave out, (I could tell he was definitely an old
scholar, friendly, open, and a little eccentric) and in my opinion, has been one
of the very best healers I have ever been to. He does the colonics at his
"Alternative Healing Center" on the side because he said, it's one of his
"passions." I know it sounds weird, but it's a very healing and transformative
experience--and this guy does the Reichian energy work at the same time as the
colonics, which works on emotional issues, as the water in the colonic cleanses
the first, second, and third chakras, areas that are very neglected by the mores
of this western society's imprinting on us. He also gave me this tea that has
Chinese Mallow and Senna herbs in it, that stimulate the colon, to keep it
moving in a timely manner (regularity that is.) He said these herbs are safe to
take daily and won't make you dependent on them. (And, believe me, they work!)
Us scholars are known for not being able to release stuff very well--and this
shows up in our bodies often as constipation. The slower your digestive tract is
to eliminate what your body doesn't need, the more toxins from your food and
from unfriendly bacteria get sent into the rest of your body, and the harder
your body then has to work to try to rid itself of these toxins....And, as we
see every day, our bodies aren't very successful at this task unaided,
sometimes. Well, if anyone wants to know about this more, I can give you my
doctor's phone number, just e-mail me, and I'm sure he'd be happy to talk to you
more about colonics and detoxification. There is also information on the WWW
which I found very useful. I just did a net search on it.
Since I had some sessions of colonics, I've felt a lot better, as a
whole--more energy too. My skin has cleared up dramatically (but I do think it
was in part to the Accutane treatment as well, which I stopped in July), I'm not
as tired as I used to be, I get sick less often (now this is a big deal
considering I have a child in daycare and was sick almost all the time last
year, just like he was), and I haven't had a problem with being depressed in
some months--although, I'd attribute that to other alternative type healing
things I've done as well, that were very important for me, which included
breaking down old patterns and limiting beliefs that did not serve me. They say
depression is "anger turned inward," and Michael says that when you feel anger,
that is the result of having unfulfilled expectations. This is really worth
looking at, IMHO!
What Kate says about eating lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, and getting
exercise, are very important. Michael has always emphasized that we need more
Prana, the life-force energy, in our food intake. You get this from fresh, live,
and whole foods. Cooked and processed foods don't have prana anymore, and
therefore they are a drain on your system. Even most agriculturally derived
foods are depleted of prana and nutrients, due to the use of pesticides and
forced-growing with artificial fertilizers and lighting. I highly recommend
taking high-quality vitamin and mineral supplements if you can, and taking
acidophilus and bifidus to colonize your intestines with these good bacteria
(which you can buy by themselves, or get from cultured foods like natural
yogurts--but then you've got all that mucous-producing dairy to deal with too.)
Steve C. also channeled Michael as saying that praying and giving thanks over a
meal returns some prana to the food even if it is cooked. I thought that was
interesting. :^) But you know they're finding lots of evidence now of the
healing power of prayer. So it does make sense to me.
One more thing, I'm not a doctor, and I don't play one on TV either ;-) so
just take this as my experience. OK, I could go on and on but I'm outa time, so
I'm outa here....:^)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 00:01:57 -0400
Subject: RE: Depression and detoxification
I enjoyed your very informative post and I just have a question.What is
Reichian Psychology? Is it in any way related to Reiki? It sounds very
interesting....works on emotional issues or the colonics do??
lots ´a love,
***Do your Dream***Allow for the Possibilty***
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:39:58 -0500
Subject: Re: A little more on 7th Old
Dick Hein wrote:
> Final-level old souls rarely seek remunerative
employment for any
> period of time. /77
Wonder how they support themselves? <G>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:42:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Saddam and Middle east
Christopher McMurry wrote:
> BTW, I'm glad you brought up "definite
reasons". With a goal
> discrimination, I find myself questioning *all* channelings.
> Just because Emily, or Aaron, or Jose, or Shepard, or Kate,
> or anybody says that someone is such-and-such, doesn't mean
> that I will necessarily buy into it. If their take doesn't match mine, I
> want to see the "definite reasons" why.
Thanks for bringing this up. As Michael says, we need to always make
reference to our own inner validation.
> Kate brought up in a recent post the example
of Stephen King. He's
> listed in Emily Baumbach's Cast of Characters book as being an early
> baby soul. I think this must have been based on that fact that he writes
> a lot of horror books, and as such he must be dealing with a lot of
> instinctual fears. But having read most of his books, I can tell
> you that in my opinion there's no way that he's a baby soul, much less
> an early baby soul. My strong take on King is that he's a mature soul.
> In _Rose Madder_, which is a fantasy/suspense story of a woman trying
> to break free from her domineering husband, he really does a great job
> of getting inside of the emotional life of a woman on the edge.
Thanks for posting this! Very interesting. As you know, my imagination is too
vivid to read King, but I like the way you describe his work.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:47:08 -0500
Subject: Re: RV: A little more on 7th Old
Thanks so much for your post. I'm so glad you are finding the validation for
your experience you need here. That can mean so much to late old souls, esp. The
internet has been, literally, a Godsend for that!
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 23:26:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Depression and Detoxification
Lori Tostado wrote:
> Our bodies get so toxic from the processed and
> laden food that we eat, it's no wonder people suffer from so many
> various diseases, many of which don't even have a name yet.
Lori, thanks so much for adding this important bit of information. The ways
you mentioned for detoxifying are very good. Another thing people may consider
are getting purified water (I drink distilled), air purifier for your house (I
use the Austin Healthmate, made to run 24-hours a day for 5 years, gets out
formadehyde and other chemicals from building products and carpets, etc.). And,
of course, if you smoke--you are a personal toxic waste dump. I never go around
smoking. Can't stand to be within a mile of it. I also never, ever allow any
landlord to use pestcides in my house. (I have an electronic device that uses
sound to repel pests. I also talk to the devas of any individual species that
occasionally invades my house and say, "Please keep this spider, yellow jacket,
etc. out of my house. This is my territory, and I don't want to kill your
insect, but I can't have it in my space." That seems to do the trick.)
Herbicides are horrible, too.
Instead of perfumes, I put essential oils in the unscented moisturizers I
use. I also put relaxing essential oils, such as lavender and rose, in water
atomizers and spray the air in my house.
To clean my laundry I use special devices that deordorize and clean
electromagnetically so they don't pollute. For cleaning the house I use only
citrus based cleansers--use citrus, too for deordorizing the air. I use vinegar
and water for cleaning mirrors and glass.
For diet, re: eating raw foods: I have a Vita Mix food processor. I make my
own ice cream and smoothies. I freeze milk with no antibiotics or other
chemicals or hormones into cubes and put them in with frozen fruit and herb tea
and sweeten it with Stevia (an herb 200 times as sweet as sugar that doesn't
raise the insulin levels or decay the teeth). In my smoothie I also put high
quality whey protein powder and flax oil and psyllium. It's a complete meal.
(And, Lori, this is a very good way to take psyllium and flax without having to
taste them--and they are *very* good for the bowels.)
Another thing I do to detox is to every three months have a sample of my hair
tested by a lab for heavy metals contamination in my body. It also tells you if
you have mineral imbalances. The lab I go through is very experienced and they
put together for me a vitamin and mineral program tailored to my body's exact
needs. I am now working on some very subtle, long-term imbalances and working
not for regular health but super health. <G>
In addition, I have been, over the last year, bit by bit, having all the
mercury taken out of my mouth in the form of dental fillings. The poisoning you
get from that can definitely lead to depression. If you can't afford to get your
fillings taken out, or esp. while you do it, you can take potenized mercury, a
homeopathic remedy which helps your body detox the mercury in it. (I can explain
what "potenized" means if anyone wants to know. It is a special way of creating
homeopathic remedies.) You can get potenized mercury through Standard, a huge
homeopathic remedy distributor. I'm also going to see about getting potenized
forms of benzene (common petrochemical pollutant, esp. common in cities and
often in our water supply) and other heavy metals. Formadehyde is another to try
and get potenized. You can't believe the damage that chemical can do to your
body, and it is in so many modern building materials!
Prolonged exposure to toxic chemicals, as Lori points out, breaks down the
immune system, leading to chronic fatigue, depression and eventually lays the
way for all sorts of breakdown of the whole body.
I try to do organic produce, but if you can't get it, there are excellent
produce cleansers available in most health food stores that you can use to clean
the produce. Remember that you *must* wash all produce even if it is organic. It
can still have illness-producing microbes on it, including e. coli.
Good hygiene is a must for protecting the immune system. You don't have to be
obsessive compulsive and germ phobic about it, but there have been many shows on
TV on science and news channels about scientists who have gone around in public
places, like door handles, phones, etc. and taken swabs and done cultures. There
is strep, e. coli and all kinds of dangerous organisms. When many scientists
have observed hand washing in public bathrooms, they find that a huge percentage
of people don't wash. So if you wash your hands and touch the door handle (use a
towel or piece of clean tissue) with your bare hand, you are picking up,
immediately other people's viruses and dieases from their genitals, etc. (Sounds
gross, but it is a reality.) I don't recommend sitting on a public toilet seat
without covering it with tissue, too. It's true that microorganisms can only
live a little while without a warm, mucousy host, but you have no idea how long
ago some other person sat there. In washing your hands, get under the
fingernails and do the tops and rinse well. Remember that most people
"self-innoculate" themselves with viruses and the like a dozen times a day or
more by rubbing their eyes, noses or mouth. Your mother was right if she told
you to keep your hands away from your face. :} (BTW, the hygiene practiced in
most day care centers is a nightmare!)
If you follow the Western custom of wearing your outside shoes in the house,
be aware that when swabs are done of most Western carpets, what you are bringing
into your house (in addition to filth) is heavy metals and pesticides. This is
particularly bad for those of you who have pets and small children. They are
rolling around in it destroying their immune systems. A big advantage of not
wearing shoes in the house, in addition to poisoning yourself less, is the
housework goes way down, and you raise the energetic vibration of the house in
very positive ways.
Lori, while I agree with 99% of what you say, I can't totally agree with the
safety of Senna--it is a purgative and as such is not totally safe for long-term
use. And it does not take the place of fiber, nor does any other "bowel
cleansing" program. I was recently doing research on fiber, and it turns out
that the only way to get the 30 grams of it that is recommended to be taken
daily is to eat whole grains and beans. Unless you want to take psyllium. I take
6 tsp. of the latter a day. But 1 cup of Kellogg's All Bran cereal, and it
doesn't taste bad, will give you 30 grams of fiber, so this is an easy
alternative for getting fiber. Surprisingly, fruits and vegetables are not
nearly as dense and full of fiber as we might think. You'd have to eat about a
gallon of broccoli, for example, to get 30 gm. of fiber. However, the fruits and
vegetables provide vital phytochemicals you can't get as completely any other
way, not even in vitamins, so it's not good to skip them in favor of grains
solely, as some people do.
For the bowels, and overall immune system improvement, it's also good to take
"probiotics" daily, not just when you are on antibiotics (many doctors recommend
yoghurt when on antibiotics). Probiotics are things like acidophyllus, which
encourage the growth of healthy intestinal flora--they clean the walls of your
bowels. FOS is a special kind of sugar that only the good bacteria in your
bowels can eat (and thrive on) is good to take, too. You can get it in the
health food store. I add it to my smoothies and herb tea. First thing every
morning, I take a probiotic (a nice-tasting chewable one) and drink two glasses
of distilled water. I drink about 10-14 glasses of distilled water a day, some
of it in the form of herbal tea sweetened with Stevia and, as I say, FOS. It's a
yummy drink, hot, cold or room temperature, and an easy way to get yourself to
drink liquids. Celestial Seasonings makes wonderful fruity teas. You can place a
single teabag in up to 32 oz. of water, let it set, you don't even need heat,
and it will flavor the water nicely within minutes. If you stir, within seconds.
> One more thing, I'm not a doctor, and I don't
play one on TV either ;-)
> so just take this as my experience. OK, I could go on and on but I'm
> outa time, so I'm outa here....:^)
I'm not a doctor either, but these are a lot of things I've experimented with
and which have worked well for me. Up until I started vigorously practicing
these things (and dumped my psychic vampire of an ex-husband, which was about
the biggest healing thing I've ever done for myself ) several years ago, I
had had "irritable bowel syndrome" since childhood, and had had chronic fatigue
syndrome for about seven years. This regimen plus going on the Zone diet (30%
healthy fats, 40% protein, 40% carbs), caused the chronic fatigue to vanish,
never to return and my depression has been strongly aided, too. I went on the
Zone because of a family history of depression and diabetes, not to mention
heart disease--which is greatly worsened by diabetes.
Now my immune system seems to be stronger than ever in my life. I feel more
energy and strength than when I was 19 and riding my bike 10 miles a day and
dancing (as a dancing major) 2 hours a day. I have more muscle than I did then,
too. I can walk and walk, it seems, forever, once I get going. Only my friends
who are really dedicated athletes can keep up with me. I recently had a stress
EKG, and the doctor said that he hadn't had anyone take the test but
long-distance runners who did as well as me. I feel happy about that, since 6 of
my mother's siblings have dropped dead of heart disease, many younger than my
age of 46.
Oh, the thing about how I exercise: I do not kill myself, as Oprah does. I
don't worry about "burning fat." I never worry about getting my heart rate above
120-124. I do nice, steady, moderate walking, often in front of the TV, walking
in place. I have a set of dumbbells that I do for weight lifting three times a
week, this also in front of the TV. I also do stretches and breathing exercises
I know, I know, it sounds like a lot, but I do all this like breathing. I
never think about it anymore. It's as much an automatic thing as brushing my
teeth, showering and using the bathroom.
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:20:15 -0800
Subject: Re: Depression and Detoxification
Thank you Kate for the great advice.
I didn't mean to say that one should take the Senna herb tea as a substitute
for eating enough fiber--what I should have said was that after a while of
improving your diet, you wouldn't need the tea anymore, just occasionally....
And certainly pregnant women should not take it without talking to their doctor
As for the All-Bran though, it tastes like wood to me--yeck, I'll take the
psyllium in organic apple juice any day. Even a gallon of broccoli (heheh) :^)
It wasn't the taste of psyllium that bothered me, it was the thick consistency
and so much quantity.....And then again, I must admit I am often weak--there has
been a few days, since my husband's been working out of town, that I've invited
Ben and Jerry over for dinner--yes, ice cream for dinner! Ahhh, but just not too
much.... Hehehe. But we have to enjoy ourselves now and again, eh?
As you said Kate, all fresh fruits and veggies should be washed and it is
best to buy the organically grown kinds, because many of the conventional kinds
you cannot wash the pesticides off of, because the pesticides are incorperated
into the cells of the plant itself--there is nothing to remove them. Most
pesticides used nowadays in the US break down into carbon dioxide, water, and
other supposedly "innocuous" substances within a relatively short time, (wash
them anyways though!!) but in other countries, they still use DDT (and the US
still produces it and sells it to these other countries, even though DDT is
banned for use in the US) and then this produce is imported into the US, and
other countries, and so we are exposed to it anyway.... DDT and its metabolic
byproduct, DDE, are found ubiquitously in the environment nowadays--even in the
fat of polar bears near the north pole! Pesticides tend to accumulate in the fat
cells, where they can stay for a very long time. Many of them also mimic female
hormones, and their effects have been seen in lowered fertility rates of men
over the last 60 years, and possibly they contribute to other things like breast
cancer and heart disease. DDT has a half-life of over 10 years (which means, if
you had some DDT, over half of it would still be present in its active form 10
years later). Imagine what the soil of agricultural land is like--it's dead. And
so the plants to not grow healthy there. Ok, enough of my environmental trivia,
I feel like I'm back in college, heh.
Kate--what you called probiotics is what I was referring to as acidophilus
and bifidus--or were you referring to probiotics as the food that feeds
acidophilus and bifidus? I know that's good too as you said.
> Hi Lori,
> I enjoyed your very informative post and I just have a question.What is
> Reichian Psychology? Is it in any way related to Reiki? It sounds very
> interesting....works on emotional issues or the colonics do??
Hi Mixchel! :^) I'm not the best person to tell you about Reich and his
psychological principles--it's popular in Europe though, maybe someone else can
say something about it?? I never studied about him in school.
But, I do know that the energy work feels very much like Reiki, yes! I have
taken Reiki level 1, and worked with the energy even before then.... The
Reichian energy work feels like the Light Body Activation too. You do special
breathing techniques, and you feel the tingling energy all through your whole
body--it's really great. Very powerful. I would say that both the colonics and
the Reichian energy work aid in emotional healing. The energy work because it
works on a soul-level connected to the physical, and the colonics on the
physical level connected to the spiritual....Sorry if I didn't make sense.
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:04:37 +0200
Subject: Re: Old souls in South Africa and other countries -Reply
Thank you for the post Jose. Yes, I am familiar with Joya's home page. Great
stuff. By the way, I have been to Rio de Janeiro.
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:47:23 +0000
Subject: Re: Things to Remember About the Mid-Life Passage (1997-46/51)
Thank you, Dick, for that straightforward and informative answer to my
questions. It really helps for me to have specific references that I am able to
read, ponder, and re-read before I take action.
Must be a scholar thing. ; )
Thanks again. This response was extremely helpful.
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:47:23 +0000
Subject: Re: Digest No. 1997-11-21 of Michael Teachings List
> I guess I needed to experience the "bottom" I
experienced to become
> openminded enough to "remember" these principles.
Sometimes this needs to happen. Sometimes you almost fall through a trap door
into brilliance. Buckminster Fuller comes immediately to mind. Congratulations
on recognizing the fact that you don't have to wallow in the same muck forever.
There is always a light at the end of the tunnel. You just have to quit feeling
sorry for yourself, quit seeking the attention that brings, recognize what you
have been doing, affirm that you now understand you no longer need that
experience, gain what knowledge you can in retrospect, then move on.
Welcome to the list.
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:05:38 -0800
Subject: Re: Individual Readings
I don't do readings in the same way most of the channels do.
I have copies here of Jose Steven's excellent TIP booklet that contains the
updated personality quiz and use the to help folks learn more about themselves
and how to apply that knowledge to their life, work, relationships, etc. My work
is done in person so that I can feel the person's energy as I work with them.
By the way for the list: I picked up a copy of Kay Heatherly's research
on Essence Twins at the AMT conference and just read it this week. It's a
pamphlet at present. Contact her for ordering instructions.
-- Barbara Taylor
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:37:46 +0000
Subject: More on Life Task
While cruising the Michael websites (I don't surf - the Washington coast is
too damn cold!) I began exploring Shepherd's page, particularly because he was
highly recommended as a channel by Ed. In his channeled session on Service there
is some discussion of life task, and reference is made to old souls in
Thank you, Shepherd, by the way, for making this information available.
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 15:26:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Digest No. 1997-11-27 of Michael Teachings List
<< Thank you, Shepherd, by the way, for making
this information available--John >>
You're welcome! I'll let you know when my new web site is up and running. It
has lots of new stuff, and more will be added as I get time. BTW, I'm accepting
general (non-personal) questions for Michael for the site.
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 16:40:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Saddam and Middle east
******VERY, VERY LONG POST WARNING*****
******(ABOUT 10 PAGES PRINTED OUT)*******
This is in response to Ed's post on Saddam.
Ed, thanks so much for taking the time to write and share with us your
insightful post. I've been enjoying *all* the posts you've been writing, esp.
lately. I love the way you rigorously discuss every topic you sink your teeth
into. It is very inspiring and wakes up the list by getting all our mental (and
spiritual) juices flowing. I do so love a good discussion. So here I go with a
>> There is no religious fundamentalism either
in him personally or in
the state he has created. Like Assad of Syria, Saddam deliberately
created a secular totalitarian empire. The Ba'ath ruling party
organization in both countries had a basically secular socialist line,
as did Nasser in Egypt. These movements had overthrown the traditional
feudal rulers. There was originally an intent to modernize and reform
the traditional society. I don't know how strong the idealism was or
how long it lasted before the heavy characters completely took over.
Quite a few other third-world countries had similar regimes combining
elements of reform ideology, nationalism and dictatorship, though often
with a fake democracy veneer over it.<<
I think you're making some excellent, and very interesting points about
Saddam here. I do so wish I were more informed (in much more detail) on the
political situation in the Middle East. Unfortunately, that area of the world
has never been my specialty (I was more interested in the Soviet block, Western
Europe and South and Central America). So I admit from the start that, if this
is *your* area of specialty, I may make a very poor mental "sparring partner"
for you. :)
BTW, just to satisfy my curiosity, if you don't mind: where are you coming
from on your assertions? Have you made a particular study of this political
arena? You sound veryinterested, at the very least, in the various political
scenarios there. Again, I'm excited at your strong, thoughtful input!
>> Had Saddam been a baby soul he would have
imposed some religious or
quasi-religious (like Marxism or Nazism) system on the people. He would
have done so because he believed in it and believed it was his positive
duty to push it on his people. I don't see Saddam as fitting this
Interesting assertion. And it brings up a question for me: So, by
extrapolation, does this mean that you see Hitler as imposing the Nazi eugenics
("good genes" of the Aryans) belief system on the Germans as being a "duty" he
felt he had to fulfill? If so, I guess I can agree that he may have convinced
himself of that. Even though, of course, in the midst of that "holy" duty, there
was plenty of room for self-serving aggrandizement to creep in. :)
Oh, while we're in the midst of this discussion and since Hitler has been
brought up, I've been thinking a lot since yesterday about Emily's channeling
that Hitler was instinctively centered. My understanding (and I'm not saying I'm
right, not at all--this is definitely something I'd like to see discussed) is
that the Instinctive Center (IC) traditionally functions much like the lower or
primitive brain (as per tripartite brain theory, brain constructed of
lower/instinctive, mid/emotional and upper/reasoning brains). That is, the IC is
"pre-programmed" with the karmas that we will instinctively slide into (find
ourselves, without thought or obvious choice in the midst of) during a given
Thus, the implication for me with stating that Hitler is primarily
Instinctively Centered is that his Essence (and maybe the Tao?) pre-programmed
him to automatically, without any thought or reason, to engage in massive
world-destruction. This is a startling (even horrifying) view of karma, and
IMHO, needs further channeling for clarification. It puts, for me anyway,
Essence function in a very different light than I had thought of it previously
from my studies of the Michael Teachings.
>> The man is much too competent at game playing
to be a baby soul. He
has to be one of the world's historically shrewdest totalitarian
leaders. He combines utter ruthlessness towards his enemies with very
sophisticated tricks to maintain his popularity among the cowed
I agree with all you are saying here except the "to be a baby soul" part of
the statement. :) More on that in a second.
>> He survives because he is of equal or older
soul age to his
competitors and enemies. <<
Though I agree with the "if" side of your statement about his shrewdness and
ruthlessness, I don't, myself, automatically slide to the "then" side you've
arrived at. IOW, I agree with your facts, but not the hypothesis you are making
to explain those facts. I'm not saying your theory doesn't have merit, just that
it's not the only Michael-type explanation one could come up with to try and
figure out the why of Saddam's (so far) "great success" at the (negative) karmic
game of tyranny he is playing out.
So what are some other possible Michael hypotheses? Well, I want to stress
I'm just mulling over this very interesting topic in a brainstorming mode with
no rightness or "authority" via channeling implied. <G>
To begin with what we agree on, as would probably any political analyst, yes,
Saddam is very "wily" and "ruthless." He uses both these qualities together,
too. He's obviously "clever" enough to know that violence systematically applied
(making others helplessly watch it happen) is extremely terror-inducing, and
terror can be a very powerful tool of repression. In this regard, he is
perfectly willing to murder not only the enemies you mentioned, Ed, but his own
kin. The latter ploy is a very effective means to convince his people (and the
world) that he holds no human bond sacred.
IMO, in his application of wiliness and ruthlessness, in quality if not
degree, he is very reminiscent of Baby Soul Hitler. Especially in his similar
willingness to commit genocide. Though Saddam doesn't have nearly as elaborate a
reason for massacring whole social groups as Hitler did--he still believes he is
very justified in doing so. Granted, as you say, Ed, his rationale isn't cloaked
with idealistic rhetoric and is probably something very simple along the lines
of, "Whatever Saddam wants, Saddam gets" and "Whatever Saddam thinks is right,
good or needful, of course must be so."
IMO, in the end, reasons, however high-sounding and "spiritual" the language
may be, are only a cloak, a "plausible excuse" for the dictator to do what he is
going (possible <shudder> pre-programmed in the Instinctive Center) to do
anyway. And the nature of the "work" of being a dictator necessitates that one
see people as objects, as pawns on a cosmic chess board. In the process,
inevitably, the dictator is no longer part of the human race (he feels above
it), and therefore it is impossible for him to have any real (as an "average,"
feeling, connected human would experience it) link or bond of loyalty except to
himself and his own self-perceived demi-god status.
So, having said all the above, I ask the question again: is this particular
dictator surviving because his soul age is at least the same as his young soul
and mature soul enemies (mostly the Western nations)? I might answer the
question with another question: did Baby Soul Hitler survive and prosper as long
as he did because his soul age was older than his enemies (Young Soul and Mature
Soul nations)? He was a baby soul leader in a baby soul culture. Most of the
nations around him were anything but baby soul, many in Europe, as I understand
it, are Mature and even Old, and the U.S. was and is Young. He and Japan,
another baby soul nation, managed to hold the whole world hostage for a quite a
number of years. Of course, sure, they were eventually defeated. But these two
very powerful baby soul nations did a bang-up job of megalomania for quite a
long time. <G>
Aside: I just did a reading with Michael on Hirohito, the Japanese Emperor
from 1926-89. I get Mature 4 manifesting as Young 3, with Warrior bleedthrough
and casting. Imprinted by Baby 4 Artisan mother (manifesting Baby 4) and Mature
4 Warrior father (manifesting Young 3). Focused/Creative Energy is 50/50 and
Frequency is 35 (low/calm). Goal was Discrimination, Mode was Power, Attitude
was Skeptic, Chief Feature was #1 Greed and #2 Impatience. Center was Emotional,
If accurate, I find this reading adds a fascinating wrinkle to our
discussion. To what degree did Baby Soul Hitler's aligning himself with a
Mature-living-as-Young leader of another Baby Soul nation "oomph" his efforts
and put him on a more equal footing with his enemies? Might be worth channeling
about. I'm getting that Hirohito's role was as transitional leader bringing
Japan from Baby Soul to Young Soul status in its consciousness as a nation. So
he may be the example you are looking for, Ed, of a Young Soul leader of a Baby
Soul nation who was trying, hard, to "play with the big boys."
Back to the discussion about Saddam. Another way of looking at how a Baby
Soul tyrant could hold his own for as long as Saddam has with much more powerful
Young Soul nations might be to look at the situation as analogous to how
children function in a nuclear family unit. Ostensibly, they are in a much less
powerful position than the parents, and the children are developmentally much
less mature than the parents (at least theoretically <G>). But how is power
actually wielded in the family--or within any group, for that matter?
Is anyone ever totally powerless? I'd have to say, no. I've learned over the
past 25 years, esp. the past 13 since I've been a mother, never to underestimate
the power held by an expert at passive-aggression. (The latter is defined as
being analogous to a dog that is licking your hand and peeing on your foot at
the same time. ) Children are *experts* at passive-aggression, as are most
disempowered adults (people who by social status or self-perception feel they
have no "right" to take a full, equal, adult, mature position in relationship to
other adults). Also, I've noted over the years that in many self-defense
classes, a useful technique against assault that is often taught is to "make
yourself heavy and resistant like a child who doesn't want to be carried."
Another aside on power and purpose in groups in general: human groups depend
on shared goals and mutual cooperation in reaching those goals in order to be
"functional," that is, in order to "work." A "functional" group could also be
called a "healthy," "successful" or even "happy" group. Even though it is a
given that people in this realm are going to constantly form groups (defined as
any two or more people coming together), rarely do all the members of a group
(even if there are only two people) totally agree, not only on what their mutual
"vision" is, but what steps are "correct" to take to reach it. Though
"consensus" (all members agreeing before any action is taken) is the most
"democratic" (and currently most preferred in the West) way to run a group, the
larger a group is, or whenever members of a group have unequal levels of
maturity, the more likely it is that a leader will be appointed or naturally
"rise to the top."
Under a patriarchal structure, in place throughout history in almost all
times and places, children and women have been almost universally regarded as
"less than," as possessions and as lackeys to be ordered about. So in social
groupings, "naturally" the most "logical" leader has historically been an adult
male. This kind of "easy" and "natural" power structure is very appealing in
hierarchical baby-soul cultures. But, unfortunately, since it is not based on
real "truth" (that women and children are, in fact, inferior beings), the "one
down" members of such social groupings have inevitably, in most times and
places, been forced to covertly seek to equalize the power dynamics. Hence, the
all-pervasiveness of passive aggression.
I think this is why passive aggression is frequently a component in the
behavioral repertoire of most any social outcast group, especially in people
forced into slavery. The people on top, the rulers, frequently use violence, of
all sorts (esp. sexual violence) to maintain their "illegitimate" power
(legitimate power is leadership by the consent of the governed, illegitimate is
non-consensual, tyrannical leadership). The people on the bottom have no means
to resist by quite, covert actions of non-compliance. (If it is obvious, you
will get violently punished for it.)
Thus, in times and places in history when virtually all societies upheld a
Baby Soul model of Thou Shalt Obey the Top-Down Rules, a tendency to use
violence (and shame, which is psychic violence) to enforce the social order is
very common and very much accepted. (Alice Miller brilliantly writes about how
an extreme of this method of child rearing, very violent and paramilitary, in
German society up until the Hitler era, contributed to the rigidly obedient
mentality of the German people, especially young males, that made them easy
marks for Hitler).
However, since the end of World War II and the ultimate extreme of genocide
and tyranny the world witnessed with Hitler, as a result, on a world level, out
of a need to stop "illegitimately ruling," the Western powers released the last
of their colonies in the "third world." And in the U.S., we began a long-term
movement toward ending the "internal colonization" of blacks as a "lesser
species" in this country. This civil rights movement led to the anti-(Vietnam)
war movement, and out of that the women's movement of the early 70s, and from
there later "rights" movements for many ostracized and persecuted minorities in
this country, including Native Americans, Chicanos and homosexuals.
The upshot of all this rise in freedom and democracy is that it is no longer
socially sanctioned in this country (and increasingly in all Western countries)
to raise children non-democratically. That is, rigid authoritarianism (absolute,
top-down parental power enforced by violence) tends to, more than ever before,
produce other-destructive people, and permissive (diffuse, neglectful, passive,
uninvolved) parenting tends to produce self-destructive children. The model that
parents, whether they want to do it or not (usually *not*--it is one hell of a
lot of work!), are being karmically (increasingly on a world level--this is a
Mature Soul consciousness phenomenon, IMO) urged to employ is "assertive." That
is, having clear individual boundaries (I know where I begin and leave off, and
where you begin and leave off), and sharing with the children the experience of
authority and autonomy.
IOW, I believe parents of this age are being increasingly mandated, by the
universe it seems, to teach children self-responsibility through example and
conflict-resolving interchange. Rather than relying on the old hypocritical saw,
"Do as I say and not as I do." We are to "rule" our children by reason rather
than emotional whim. Or blind reliance on traditions of enslavement and
disempowerment of over half the human race.
But though children born these days intuitively demand this model (and our
society encourages it), even so they tend to resist the work that they, too, are
going to have to engage in to make it happen. (Their greater freedom to choose
involves taking responsibility for the results or consequences of their
choices.) And the effects of their passive-aggressive (non-self-responsible)
resistance to the "cosmic plan" can be very painful for parents. Parents soon
discover, from the time a child hits the toddler or Baby Soul stage of
development, that one can *never* control what a human being puts in his/her
body or what comes out of it--and these two simple truths can cause unlimited
conflict between children and their parents.
Thus, though children can certainly choose to engage in outright violent
aggression in varying degrees (cursing, screaming, hitting, damaging property),
IMO, their greatest power (because of, not in spite of, its indirection) is in
passivity. That is, simply refusing to "cooperate."
In my experience, as parent and parent teacher, until parents master the
(highly complicated and infinite-patience requiring) skill of redirecting
children's energy into more positive channels (helping them go into the positive
vs. the negative of their overleaves), children can wield enormous (negative)
power in a family.
OK, that is a long, wordy analogy, but it brings me back to a Michael
hypothesis about Saddam. In the "family" of the community of nations that is the
world, Saddam is like a toddler (baby soul) who is absolutely not in agreement
with the "goals" of the world community. In particular, Geneva Convention rules
about respecting national boundaries, about not engaging in terrible
mistreatment of political prisoners--or any prisoners, about respecting human
rights in general and avoiding genocide in particular. These are all
international rules the world community agreed on after WWII and our mutual
horror at Hitler's excesses.
So in this kind of large, world arena, how much damage can an unruly toddler
commit? How much power does he have?
IMO, plenty. And until the "elder" (more wise, more willing to care about the
whole more than their own individual part) members of the world "family" learn
how to bring recalcitrant Baby Soul, toddler, members of the world family in
line, that is, help them "get with the program," redirect their energy in more
"positive" directions, they have the potential to cause an enormous amount of
damage. Thus, as a Baby Soul, esp. an arrogant, smug 7th level Baby, Saddam
could, literally, almost single-handedly, if it goes too far, tear the world
Of course, that isn't to say that this hasn't happened before. It did. With
Hitler. When it happened before, the world family learned its karmic lesson,
reconstructed itself and came back together in a historically new way. But
contemplation of that kind of tearing apart is very frightening. Especially to a
non-violent Old Soul like me. <G> So I'm always in support of any movement
toward the prevention of redirected energy/goals. :)
IMO, the major lesson the elders of the world family learned from the huge
mistakes made in handling Germany after WWI was to avoid at all costs breaking
and humiliating your enemies after winning a war. By engaging in, so to speak,
harsh, punitive, authoritarian "parenting" by the victors of WWI of the defeated
Germans, the stage was set for the humiliated Germans to desperately need some
means to restore their national pride. Hitler offered that means, and they
Fortunately, lesson learned, after WWII, in a totally opposite fashion,
rather than again breaking Germany, or Japan, the victors chose to rebuilt their
enemies' war-torn countries, thereby helping them to redirect their energies and
need for national pride into economic arenas. And thereby preventing them from
springing up later as humiliated outcasts in need of restoring through
systematic military violence their national "self-esteem."
Unfortunately, we (the US and collusive Western powers) have been less
consciously (or unconsciously via Instinctive Center programming) careful in our
dealings with other volatile Baby Soul dictators in less "central" parts of the
world in the years since WWII. Since we are talking about the Middle East (there
are many other examples that could be given), Iraq (in particular the Gulf War)
and Libya immediately spring to mind. Why? I think its because, in spite of the
(hopefully inevitable) trend of history toward a more loving, other-directed,
world-community consciousness, it remains, always, very tempting, because it
seems "easy" and "expedient" and "the SOB's deserve it" to try and "break" Baby
Soul dictators. To use military might to "cow" them.
But due to the nature of where we are historically since WWII, with all the
international agreements about not invading countries (unless they have
committed an obvious act of war first), the international community cannot just
go in and squash Saddam, or any other dictator, like a bug. (Get in, get out and
have a "nice clean little war.") Much as they'd like to do it, this sort of
agenda simply isn't supported internationally. (Tom Clancy's fantasies aside.
Another way that in the "family" of the world community, an out-of-control
"toddler," late baby soul could wield enormous power and survive (even seem to
prosper) for a very long time, as Saddam has, is this: In a game of "chicken,"
he could easily have more "courage," or be more willing to "gamble," seemingly,
all he has, because he has far less to lose than the "older" more "mature"
countries who are his opponents.
There is a saying that there is no power greater than that of a person who
"has nothing to lose." So, one might say that when you compare what Saddam has
to lose to what the rest of the world has to lose in any conflict with him, he
is gambling with pennies at a very high stakes poker game.
OTOH, his weapons, relatively "cheap" as they are to produce, are not to be
sneezed at. Like the passive-aggressive wife who puts ground glass in her
abusive husband's meat loaf, or the passive-aggressive neighbor who puts sugar
in the gas tank of a hated neighbor, Saddam has some effective,
"passive-aggressive" (secret, indirect and relatively easy to disclaim
responsibility for) weapons of mass destruction at his disposal. Time and
Newsweek describe biological warfare, viruses and chemicals, as "the poor man's
arsenal or world-destroying weapons." They are so simple to disseminate, any
terrorist who chooses could spread them with a perfume atomizer.
Another "ace in the hole" for a totally egocentric megalomaniac like Saddam
in a world-level poker game is that it doesn't matter to him, in the end, what
the outcome is. He is already "winning." (Which gives him a powerful
psychological edge.) He is obviously deriving enormous satisfaction from the way
the game itself is being played out. To mix metaphors, he is like a mouse--or a
rat--holding a tiger by the tail. The rat, I'm sure, in such a situation,
derives enormous satisfaction at the way he constantly painfully tweaks the
tiger's tail and makes him roar. The rat also probably glories in the fact that
part of the reason the tiger can't get rid of him in one bite is that he and the
tiger play by different rules. Tigers openly chase their prey, bringing down and
killing them in the open. Rats, on the other hand, hide and scurry and slink
away in the darkness. And, don't forget, rats were the carriers of the bubonic
Another reason that Saddam can feel content that, no matter what the ultimate
outcome, he is already "winning the game," is that he makes no sacrifice for his
cause (unlike his people). On the contrary, he lives in extreme comfort, ease
and wealth in a palace while his people live in huts and starve. This means he
has been able to have his cake and eat it, too.
Also, if he ultimately gets killed (and he is incredibly clever about
preventing that, as we've discussed), though he may not be intensely "religious"
in the sense that we think of Islamic fundamentalists being, he still is
permeated by the fatalistic, kismet attitude of the whole area. Thus, the idea
of death (fear of and need to avoid it) is not experienced, socially, quite the
same way by him as the average American might experience it. For an Muslim who
believes in the "holy war" of "Jihad," there is a big honor in an idealized
death for a good cause.
And even if, as we've discussed, Saddam is *not* particularly religious, he
certainly is prone to the grandiosity of a demi-god tyrant who believes, no
doubt, that "God himself" is blessing his endeavors. (The spiritual belief of
the "elect and the damned," you know you are blessed if you are succeeding, is
not confined to Christianity's Calvinist sect.)
>> One other point about the Middle East, and it
applies to "earth
changes" as well. We have to remember that all those baby and young
souls do have love and life within them; they are not just faceless
masses to be regarded with prejudice.<<
Yes, of course. A given. We are talking about a 7th level Baby Soul
Priest-Warrior-King (or Warrior-Priest, however you take the combination) and
not the simple, mostly innocent citizens of his country (other than his
self-serving, fiercely loyal, upper military). :)
For me the reason that Michael's understanding about people, and nations,
manifesting as different soul levels, is not about thinking of other people as
"less than" or worthless because of their level of consciousness. It is, IOW,
not about bigotry. Just the opposite, in fact. It is about encouraging
compassion. If you know that a person is not like you, does not come from your
point of view, you can be less likely to assume he or she is willfully and
maliciously setting out to violate the most sacred tenets of your personal
beliefs. Thus, this sort of understanding can help us to understand, and maybe
even mitigate or rectify, the major source of the inevitable conflict, and lack
of mutual understanding and respect, between individual people and nations.
Another point on your "politically correct" objection that maybe we're
getting bigoted here in our discussion: It's important to realize that as much
as Americans may struggle with the motives and actions of members of other
nations, esp. many Arab nations, whose culture's values and goals are so
diametrically opposed to most of ours, the feeling is highly mutual. Arabs are
frequently quoted, esp. fundamentalists, as saying the U.S. (and all its
citizens) are "the Great Satan." They see our women as whores and our men as
mass murderers of Arabs. And our media as attempting to broadcast our tainted
social values in order to, in an act of "cultural tyranny," imprint their people
with "false values," thereby taking down their ancient (and superior)
They have a right to this opinion. It may sound "bigoted," but there is big
justification for it, from their point of view. :)
So, in sum on this issue: I believe it does not automatically make one a
"politically incorrect" bigot if one talks about the personalities of the social
groups that people form. Long before Michael, many different arenas of study
have talked about nations having personalities. Not just spiritual teachers, but
political scientists as well deal with this issue. I believe there is quite a
bit of difference between hurling racial slurs as a means of boxing in a whole
group of people as worthy of being exterminated (making them faceless, worthless
"things") and systematically, compassionately, and in a quest for understanding,
talking about the personalities and goals of the various social groups that we
*all* belong to.
I think it may well be impossible for any of us to truly understand the basis
for our automatic, Instinctive Center (primitive brain), Essence, and social
programming, even if we try our best to engage in open, logical, systematic
inquiry about the nature of our reality. Maybe most of us won't have the ability
to even try to do this until after or during our 4th monad. Because if we get
too good at it, the confusing "cloud" of Maya begins to disperse, we see what is
really real, and maybe we won't be so apt to play the "karma game" on "automatic
Personally, I *hate* being in automatic pilot mode, so this sort of
discussion I find truly helpful. For example, when as an Old Soul living in the
U.S. I put myself in that larger context, many confusing events in my life for
the first time began to make a *lot* of sense. I am not coming out of a vacuum.
My actions are about my history. The choices I have made and have been
manipulated or constrained into making. Or the choices I have run away from
making (squealing in horror at my so-called Young Soul options <G>). And due to
knowing my context, things like feeling different, set apart, even outcast
within this culture have begun to make sense to me.
By the same token, I've found that when I, as accurately as possible (trying
not to project *me* onto the other), put myself in the shoes of other soul-aged
groups, I'm more able to predict their actions. And not be shocked to the core
because they don't act like *I* would have acted in a given situation. Also,
such a stance, in the case of a discussion like the present one, helps me to
imagine what it might feel like to a Baby Soul leader or nation faced with the
paternal incursions of an older-souled nation or nations offering advice, or
forcing actions, "for the good of the world community as a whole" that violate
everything that the Baby Souls in question hold sacred.
Oh, in this regard, looking at contexts, when I imagine the reaction of a
Baby Soul nation or leader "threatened," as they see it, by Young Soul
superpowers, I see a very different situation than that created when a Baby Soul
nation is surrounded by Mature Soul countries or even Infant Soul Countries (the
latter may not exist now, but has in the past in history).
>> Every one of them has a life and purpose, family and so on, and they are
creating continuity, that is, tomorrow and the day after tomorrow life will go
on just like today, perhaps with gradual change. They do not want to suffer, or
die. They don't want to see their families killed.<<
Granted. This is very obvious and clear. No matter the soul age, certain
biological and human imperatives seem to be universal. Using Michael language,
they are programmed into the Instinctual Center.
>> They dream of freedom and pretty girls and
life on a beach.<<
My apologies if it offends, but I have to disagree very strongly with this
statement. I believe it is an unwarranted overgeneralization from your own
experience as an American raised in a young soul culture of freedom and
individualism to say that "everyone," including Middle Easterners, wants these
sorts of things.
In the time I have spent over the years talking, teaching and living with
many different people from the Far and Middle East (India, Korea, Japan, China,
various Arab nations), in my experience, persons from these cultures do NOT, in
fact, dream the same dream that Westerners do. In fact, to them, the very
concept of individualism, and our ideas of "freedom" are anathema. It literally
sickens them. They cannot imagine living the way we do. I'm talking about our
attitudes about marriage, the family, our local communities. They abhor our
"selfishness," our rootlessness, our disrespect for tradition, our materialism,
and, above all, our "Godlessness."
As for the "pretty girls" desire, granted, Easterners treat women like
objects and possessions, as patriarchal cultures always have, but they do it in
a very different way than Americans. They don't have pictures of near-naked,
rail-thin women with pre-pubescent bodies splattered everywhere. They don't see
owning one of these women, as American men are trained to do, as an ultimate
The beach image also, to me, is very much an American dreamer kind of desire.
A "selfish" desire to laze on the beach is not necessarily going to be the
desire of an Arab not totally indoctrinated in the worst of Americana by
watching secret broadcasts of Bay Watch. :}
I think it's laudable to try and see other people in different cultures as
"human, just like me," but it is a mistake not to understand that we are all
products of our individual, distinct, different-soul-aged cultures, and not to
project our different needs, and cultural imperatives, onto the psyche of people
of other cultures. Esp. those whose traditions and karmic historical goals or
"through lines" are almost dead opposite to ours.
>> They are NOT cocreating their own mass
destruction or anyone
I would say to this, yes, of course. Consciously, who would make such a
choice? Only a nut case.
OTOH, what about karma? Granted, one of the things most of us hate (at least
I always did) about any theory of "karma," up to and including the Michael
Teachings, is the thought that we would, any of us, actually somehow, some way,
somewhere, with a certain conscious choice (however unavailable to us to
remember it) set up karmic situations where we are guaranteed to suffer. Often
horribly. It is, as I brought out a bit above, an awful thought, to me at least,
on a certain level, that my or anyone else's Instinctive Center could be
pre-programmed with plots to yank me or others into self- or other-destructive
actions. Whether direct and evident, or indirect and collusive.
But, if we look at this karmically, there is no arguing that from time
immemorial, metaphysically it has been constantly argued that each nation gets
the leader it "deserves" and that we are *all*, universally, on every level of
society, from the family, to the neighborhood, to the nation, to the world, to
the universe, participating in a mass visualization or agreement for what our
various levels of human groupings will "look like." I'm not saying this belief
system is "right" or a tidy, "rational" explanation, but it certainly has a
long, hoary history. And it does make sense to a lot of us.
And, yes, to a certain extent, the Michael teachings themselves buy into this
reincarnational, karmic belief. But the compassionate part of the theory is
that, at least in my understanding, knowledge has always been there, should we
choose to assiduously seek it, about the "rules of the game." That's why we can
find out about our overleaves and karmas, and can reach out and attempt even to
expose the embedded, totally unconscious "programmed" assumptions in our
Instinctive Centers. The more information of that sort we can reveal to
ourselves, the more we can begin to truly, consciously (rather than
unconsciously and in a deterministic, non-free-will manner) live out scripts our
lineage, society, and Essence have set us in the most positive manner possible.
>> If a leader like Saddam plays on our fears by
scaring us into
believing that he or his people are willing to create mass destruction,
it is just a bluff and a trick. Don't be fooled. The baby and young
souls of the Middle east are very, very tired of war, hatred and
unfreedom and are yearning to come into the 21st century with the rest
I believe this statement is partially accurate. IMO, the issue with Iraq has
always been about Saddam, not the common people who are so much cannon fodder to
him. Due to their social training to be absolutely obedient (that part of the
world has never participated in the only centuries-old social experiment of
democracy), and Saddam's judicious reinforcement of that tradition with the
kinds of violence I've talked about above, I believe the Iraqis (other than
Saddam's elite military people) are firmly convinced they are living out a
"kismet" with Saddam they have no power to change.
Certainly, I agree with you that the common people, the ones living in huts
while Saddam is living in a palace, have been quoted in the media many times as
saying they are very, very tired of the poverty from the economic sanctions
Saddam's actions brought on the country and that resulted from the Gulf War
itself. But what can they do to stop it? What political power do they have?
So, no, I agree, they are not contributing to the problem, they don't want
it, but they can't do anything about it, in their perception.
Having said all that, there is an irony here. One of the (often sad) truths
or "rules" of this dimension is that a perception of powerlessness is a very
powerful visualization. What you believe, you create. Now, that isn't to say
that when one reads the "odds" of a particular fragment, or group of fragments,
for catharsing and throwing off a (in this case millenniums' old) perception
might not be, at a particular point in history, very good indeed. Many times in
history a downtrodden group will have a karmic agreement to maintain a group
perception of enslavement, and then, suddenly, that group perception, almost
universally by the whole group, is cast aside. Such a scenario may or may not
happen in the Middle East any time soon. FWIW, when I ask about it (channel on
it), I get a 20% chance the bonds will be thrown off in this area in the next 50
So what does that mean? Is your assertion that most of the people in the
Middle East want to come "into the 21st century" possibly true? Maybe. Anything
is possible. But for practical, even more than intuitive, reasons I find the
probability very low anytime soon. Many of the leaders in the Middle East, as
political analysts tell us, are "businessmen," and as such, very pragmatic. But
in contrast to them, millions of "regular" people there believe that they are
the proud possessors of a thousands of years old tradition that is holy and not
to be tampered with. What does the "21st century" AKA "U.S. values" have to
offer people who believe they have a divinely inspired social tradition to cling
to? In their perception, very little.
Again, great discussion, Ed--thanks!
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:03:33 +0100
Subject: Re: New Overleaf Names
Barbara Taylor wrote:
> My full set of terms is on my web site. Jose,
Lena and I have talked about
> this for many years and grappled with how to come up with new words for
> a mainstream version.
Thanks Barbara, I will check out your versions at your website. I am very
interested in this. Incidently if anyone, for any purpose, needs the whole basic
Michael vocabulary in German, I have that here.
> Jose now uses the terms: infant, baby,
toddler, adolescent, adult,
> etc. Because I work more in the corporate world, the words I use must
> be understandable in that environment.
I am familiar with Jose's version, and, with respect, I don't care for these.
In his Chief Feature book he writes of people being "fixated" at a Baby or
Adolescent level or whichever. I find that telling adult people that they are
stuck at a less than adult level and that they can never in their lives (this
life) reach an adult level is insulting and counterproductive... The implication
is that there is something wrong with them. That is what made me start looking
for new terms for the various soul ages in the first place. What intrigued me
about your terms is that they abandoned the metaphor of age altogether and were
descriptive without setting up a hierarchy. They could be said to anyone's face
without causing insult or misunderstanding.
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:25:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: anybody here?
Just wanted to say this.
Hopefully this is not tiresome to those of you who are advanced in the
I am much devoted (Michael teachings) and grateful for this mailing list (as
well as all the other helpful Spiritual info on the web), but find myself
removed from what seems to be the concentration point of the teachings, namely
Northern California and sometimes Europe. I live now in the New Orleans Area,
ironically enough I've just moved from Northern California..very sorry to have
missed the conference).
Had a Michael channeling done 6 years ago in San Francisco, I have the tape
somewhere..but can only remember that I was said to be an artisan 7th (4th?)
level mature , realist, something about moving center in emotional
part???..arrogance is in there somewhere.. Anyway ...
I've read the first two books (Yarborough??) Wish I still had them. This made
sooooo much sense given that I had always thought "organized religion", guilt
based of course, had silly and often self serving and/or alterior motive type
It seems strange to me that where I now live ...such an OLD place..traditions,
secrets, etc..would not have more of a preponderance of open minded souls (ie:
Long story short...anybody here?
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:33:04 -0500
Subject: Re: anybody here?
Welcome to the list, Amy. I'm not that far South. In the Atlanta area.
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:36:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Depression and Detoxification
Lori Tostado wrote:
> Thank you Kate for the great advice.
Thanks. And thanks for yours!
> I didn't mean to say that one should take the
Senna herb tea as a
> substitute for eating enough fiber--what I should have said was that
> after a while of improving your diet, you wouldn't need the tea
> anymore, just occasionally.... And certainly pregnant women should
> not take it without talking to their doctor first. :^)
Yes, good point!
> As for the All-Bran though, it tastes like
wood to me--yeck, I'll take
> the psyllium in organic apple juice any day. Even a gallon of broccoli
> (heheh) :^)
> It wen working out of town, that I've invited
Ben and Jerry over for
> dinner--yes, ice cream for dinner! Ahhh, but just not too much....
> Hehehe. But we have to enjoy ourselves now and again, eh?
I don't think it's possible for most Americans to give up our sugar. I don't
try to delete things from my diet so much as add them. I find it works better
psychologically. <G> I try to get in all my good stuff, like mother always says,
"Eat your vegetables before dessert, dear." <G>
> but in other countries, they still use DDT
(and the US still produces
> it and sells it to these other countries, even though DDT is banned for
> use in the US) and then this produce is imported into the US, and other
> countries, and so we are exposed to it anyway.... DDT and its
> metabolic byproduct, DDE, are found ubiquitously in the environment
> nowadays--even in the fat of polar bears near the north pole! Pesticides
> tend to accumulate in the fat cells, where they can stay for a very long
> Many of them also mimic female hormones, and their effects have been
> seen in lowered fertility rates of men over the last 60 years, and
> possibly they contribute to other things like breast cancer and heart
> disease. DDT has a half-life of over 10 years (which means, if you
> had some DDT, over half of it would still be present in its active form 10
> years later). Imagine what the soil of agricultural land is like--it's
> dead. And so the plants to not grow healthy there. Ok, enough of my
> environmental trivia, I feel like I'm back in college, heh.
With the birth of the septuplets, lots of comments in the news media about
the rising infertility rates.
> Kate--what you called probiotics is what I was
referring to as
> acidophilus and bifidus--or were you referring to probiotics as the
> food that feeds acidophilus and bifidus? I know that's good too
> as you said.
Yes, acidophilus and bifidus. Some tablets include FOS, too.
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 20:08:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Joya Pope
Subject: baby/mature and a warring world
Kate, thank you for a tremendous piece. If you were writing for New Age, I
would read it often!
I hadn't before realized that young soul right wing hawks have a such source
of power in in Clancy et al and Hollywood (triumphantly visualized winning
scenarios). visualize world peace comes to have new meaning.
I am truly fascinated at how this brilliance comes flashing out of you so
fast and fluent. Gifted girl!
Thank you again, very stimulating. I am still digesting, and of course as
"Upcoming Changes" author, this stuff is right up my alley.
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 20:08:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Old Soul Pockets
Hello and warm greetings. I love South Africa. Cape Town, one of the most
spectacularly set cities in the world, still pulls me to move, live there and
work. My work.......Michael Channel!
I spent 5 weeks early this year in Cape Town and J'berg giving talks and
workshops and readings. Cape town being the most laid back and yet sophisticated
clearly had a higher percentage of old souls, but Jo'berg just by virtue of
numbers has more. Seems like these two cities have the most active metaphysical
and healing communities in SA and are where most of the pockets of old souls are
now. Look for open faces, open eyes. odd humor, wierd interests and you likely
have an old soul. Interestingly in SA most of the old souls I met were doing
quite well with money, great houses, bmw's etc. Seems a value in SA is to be
earthy and practical--not at all like growing up in California!
It would be fun to meet Gay Avice du Buisson who is
sometimes on this list. I have lost her email add. tho.
You mention: Also, from what I have read so far, I understood that Iceland,
Switzerland and the Czech Republic are old soul countries.
IMHO switzerland used to be old but no longer is, seems more young and baby,
stuck in its ways and happily depriving women of equal rights, maybe even
voting. Czech Rep. has big pockets of old souls, but is not majority old.
And I certainly found in SA cities a majority of mature and young soul among
the whites. the blacks too have large numbers of mature, but interestingly out
in the rural areas whatever their soul age exists a religion that has not
changed much since infant soul days -- like burn a woman-witch if lightening
strikes a village because she did it ad nauseum (well, I am a bit impatient!)
And of course, Nelson Mandela is probably the oldest soul leader on the planet
right now and what a miracle he wrought. :-))
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 21:13:18 -0500
Subject: Re: baby/mature and a warring world
Joya Pope wrote:
> Kate, thank you for a tremendous piece.
Thanks so much!
> If you were writing for New Age, I
> would read it often!
Do you mean New Age magazine? I wish there were someplace to write this sort
of thing. I find the potential for applying Michael's "theories" to world events
to be quite extensive.
> I hadn't before realized that young soul right
wing hawks have a such
> source of power in in Clancy et al and Hollywood (triumphantly visualized
> winning scenarios). visualize world peace comes to have new meaning.
It was an interesting thought to stumble upon. I showed the piece to a NYT
bestselling author who says she now has new info to add to her talks about the
function of popular fiction. <G>
> I am truly fascinated at how this brilliance
comes flashing out of you
> so fast and fluent. Gifted girl!
Thanks again. You're very kind and supportive! I appreciate it. :) I feel
like my Instinctive Center, if you will, has set me on a karmic course for over
20 years to develop this kind of thinking and until now, other than chatting
with a few fellow old souls casually, I hadn't a clue who on earth I was
supposed to pass on these kinds of trains of thought to. <G>
> Thank you again, very stimulating. I am still
digesting, and of
> course as "Upcoming Changes" author, this stuff is right up my alley.
Thanks again to *you*. Do you ever publish this kind of article anywhere, or
do you stick to putting what you write in book form?
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:10:18 -0800
Subject: Re: Michael on old souls and channeling (1997-47/104)
| I just ran across some channeling I did in
April, 1996 about soul ages
| that I thought would be of interest. I edited it slightly.
| MICHAEL RE: SOUL AGE, ACCURACY, ETC.
Thanks for posting this.
Dick Hein / Mountain View, California.
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:57:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Kate's super long/ Saddam & Hitler
Dear Kate -- It's way too long to respond in detail and I largely agree with
most of it, but not all.
Where do I come from? I grew up believing I should get a very broad education
suitable for preparing me to be a great leader or some such. (I learned soon
enough that lots of other people had similar ideas.) So whatever else I've done
over the years, I made it a point to follow national and world events as
thoroughly as i could. I never formally studied any of this and my interest
really is only in events since WW II. My political slant went into radical left
and draft resistance in the '60s, then later to radical right, then to old soul
establishment realism, as I would call it -- where you try to see objectively
what is and the dynamics of things and do the best you can to use your small
leverage for long-term good, sort of like what the Scandinavian countries do on
the world scene. Realistically, political leadership is going to reflect the
soul-age mainstream values in any nation. Older souls create and quietly spread
good ideas that percolate down into the mainstream eventually.
I also come from a place of complete inner serenity that both in the grandest
cosmic sense and in smaller-scale worldly matters, the good guys or side of
"light' are firmly in control. The extraterrestrials and various beings of
higher-plane realms, while they in general will not interfere with our free
will, will make one exception and they have made it clear that that is so. They
will not allow us to destroy this planet because it is an especially wonderful
and beautiful place with perhaps the greatest diversity of life forms anywhere,
and because many of the extraterrestrial socieities are eagerly wanting to learn
from us as we participate in what is regarded as one of if not the most
remarkably rapid transformations ever seen. The ETs will intervene
electronically to prevent nuclear missiles from successfully launching. Our
activities are transparently clear to them. Aside from ETs, or, for those who
don't believe they exist, a perfectly good similar agency of protection is our
own essences, guides, angels and so on; they also will step in if necessary.
I regard it as one of my duties to always radiate a serene confidnce in a
positive future and to try to dissipate other people's fears of the future,
which selfish and negatively polarized people manipulate with great effect.
Anyone who follows the "earth changes" scene can see how year after year, the
scary predictions just don't come true, and this is true for many other kinds of
stirred-up mass fear scenarios.
So in my response about Saddam and so on, I was doing all that rather than
being politically correct (which I don't do, thank you).
I agree that my arguments in support of Saddam being young were pretty
unconvincing, in fact way below my standards. I wasn't persuaded by them while I
was writing, though I felt what I said needed to be said.
So I honestly don't know what his soul age is, but I still strongly lean
towards young, despite all your arguments. The fact that you or Christopher
"channel" him a certain way doesn't make it accurate, any more than Shepherd or
others who have him as late young. We can make all sorts of arguments that don't
Out of all of it, I think you still need to figure how, if he is a baby soul,
he is not strongly religious personally, let alone that he does not push
religion or a quasi-religious system like Maoism on his people. A late baby
leader would so that. It would be more than just a cult of personality.
Hitler: I find Hitler was a much better example of a baby soul, and all the
channels i've heard of put him as baby soul.
I disagree with the idea that he was instinctively centered. Please excuse
the strong statement, but the channel that said that should have provided a
substantial theoretical explanation to cover a big departure from the maintream
of the Michael materials. A person instinctively centered is, to the rest of us,
insane and not functional, like an animal at best and a psychotic at worst. They
are generally institutionalized. Hitler may have spent a fair amount of time in
that mode, but in the Michael world when we refer to someone's overleaves we
speak of the ones essence chose going into the life, which.form the general
Hitler was very functional (as a baby soul) and very popular in his early
political career and many people believe that he was a good and constructive
leader for awhile in that he energized the pride of a downtrodden people. Soon
enough he got so much into the negative poles, did he ever! But instinctively
I read a little of Alice Miller's book once, the part where she explained how
Hitler was the very rare victim of three circumstances which allowed the monster
to develop. 1) he suffered extreme abuse in his family; 2) he didn't have
anyone, ever, to confide in or seek comfort from about it; and 3) he was in
Germany of the time, a very rigid pariarchal baby soul society where such things
were normal and unexamined.
If he were instinctively centered people would never have been attracted to
him in a lasting way (if even that) and competing leaders could have easily
outwitted him and put him down.
There is a whole interesting subject beyond our scope of how the various
extraterrestrial societies of past and present and of the two polarities have
poured tremendous energy into trying to influence us. It seems that Hitler was
greatly supported and energized by what we call the dark side. Ascended masters'
channeled information is quite good on this. Anyway, briefly, Hitler used his
mind consciously and deliberately in ways that he couldn't have done if
All the best, Ed
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:26:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Kate's super long/ Saddam & Hitler
Ed wrote in regards to Saddam H.:
> So I honestly don't know what his soul age is,
but I still strongly lean
> towards young, despite all your arguments. The fact that you or Christopher
> "channel" him a certain way doesn't make it accurate, any more than Shepherd
> or others who have him as late young. We can make all sorts of arguments
> that don't prove anything.
I completely agree with this. I was only stating my opinion, and trying to
point out the same thing: that just because a "real" Michael channel says that
so-and-so is a baby/young/mature soul doesn't make it accurate. All channelings
need to be verified by one's own perspective. :)
This, IMO, should be a caveat to anyone looking to pay a channel for a
reading. If you look like a duck, walk like a duck, quack like a duck, and the
channel tells you you're a swan, you shouldn't run off and think what a horribly
ugly swan you are. You're probably A DUCK! ;) So read the Michael books like The
Personality Puzzle and the Basic Handbook so you know what's a swan and what's a
duck. And then make the call yourself. :)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:27:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Michael Readings
<< Most Michael channels charge from between
$20-40 for a one-page listing
of what your overleaves are. Shepherd Hoodwin, I understand (correct me
on this if I am wrong, Shepherd) also sends a short tape with a basic
overleaf reading. Friends of mine got this reading and felt it was a
"great value for the money." :) >>
I do an extensive one-page chart (about 20 pieces of information on it) for
$40 ($30 each if you order 10+). There's a blank chart form in my book, "The
Journey of Your Soul," showing most of the information included. I also do what
I call a Michael Reading, in which I thoroughly explain and interpret your
chart; that's $120 (including the channeling). You can tell me your profession,
hobbies and aspirations, and I can address how they fit with your chart. I can
also correlate your chart with that of another person(s). For non-local clients,
I do it on cassette and mail it. After listening to it, you can call to discuss
I also do channeling sessions, during which you can ask any questions you
wish. Michael through me is especially strong in shedding light on the deepest
causes of the situations we deal with, and helping to bring changes. Sessions
also include transformational energy work.
You can e-mail me if you'd like a brochure, or download it from my web site.
Summerjoy Press is my self-publishing company. By the way, I'm totally revamping
my site, with a great deal of new channeled and other material. It should be up
in a few days.).
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:27:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Saddam's overleaves
For what it's worth, these are the overleaves I channeled for Saddam Hussein
in Feb., 1990. I feel I'm on shaky ground when it comes to channeling charts on
well-known people, because the waters can easily get muddied, for various
Warrior, discarnate scholar e.t., scholar (4/4/2) casting (honorary scholar,
in my terms), cadre 23 (in my system)/entity 2, 67% male/33% female energy, 31
frequency, scholar task companion, 5th young manifesting 3rd baby, 7 previous
cycles, dominance, power, cynic, moving center (didn't get whether ordinal or
cardinal)/emotional part, arrogance, secondary stubbornness, jovial, 81 past
lives, life quadrate: power position.
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:37:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Saddam's overleaves
Thanks for posting this, Shepherd! :)
Interesting that you got mode of Power and not Aggression. What are the key
differences between the two and why would Saddam be one and not the other? :)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:27:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: 7TH OLD remunerative employment
<< Final-level old souls rarely seek
remunerative employment for any period of time. /77
-- Wonder how they support themselves? <G> >>
I take that to mean that they try to be self-employed if possible, trying to
avoid being tied down to the 9-5, where one is often controlled by the whims of
others, which is probably not a natural or happy way of life for many people
anyway. Other alternatives include: choosing rich parents or a rich spouse, and
a shopping cart with lots of big black plastic bags.
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:49:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Digest No. 1997-11-27 of Michael Teachings List
My friends the true measurement of self, spirtual growth comes not from when
we look from within but when we stretch ourselves out into the world toward
others. It is true that we have many different spirtual levels, or what I like
to call our pure selves. However we are no more caught on one level than a
caterpillar isdenied never metamorphasising into a butterfly.
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 15:32:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: 7TH OLD remunerative employment
In a message dated 97-11-27 14:52:54 EST, Shepherd writes:
<< Wonder how they support themselves? <G> >>
I take that to mean that they try to be self-employed if possible, trying to
avoid being tied down to the 9-5, where one is often controlled by the whims
of others, which is probably not a natural or happy way of life for many
people anyway. Other alternatives include: choosing rich parents or a rich
spouse, and a shopping cart with lots of big black plastic bags.
Big black plastic bags? Hahahahahaha...;-p
Well, I'm definitely not on my last life level, so I therefore must be
getting a head start on this abhorrance of the 9-5 work grind. Who needs the
shackles of the corporate America chain gang anyway?. Liberate yourselves and
follow that path of least "persistence" - become so lazy that you stick your
nose outside so that the wind can blow it. ;-p
Be well and rest properly. :-)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 19:34:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: 7TH OLD remunerative employment
> become so lazy that you stick your nose
outside so that the wind can blow it.
That reminds me of something I got in the e-mail, pondering why noses run and
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 16:42:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Digest No. 1997-11-27 of Michael Teachings List
In a message dated 97-11-27 15:18:42 EST, Steven writes:
<< My friends the true measurement of self,
spirtual growth comes not from
when we look from within but when we stretch ourselves out into the
world toward others. It is true that we have many different spirtual
levels, or what I like to call our pure selves. However we are no more
caught on one level than a caterpillar isdenied never metamorphasising
into a butterfly. >>
Tell that to the butterfly caught in a web of ignorance while a big, hairy,
perspicacious spider is busy sucking out its life juices. Oooh, what a ghastly
image. ;-p I agree that the game of life involves scribbling as many experiences
onto our John Locke patented blank slate as possible, but I think it's the inner
processing we do that aids in our spiritual growth. It's simply a necessary
Steven, are you referring to the spiritual growth that comes when we help
others, or is your message laced with Christian connotations? It almost had a
Jerry Falwell - nutri-sweet - kind of preachiness flavor to it. Also, please
define your definition of "pure selves." It reminds me of Plato's theory of
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 19:11:58 -0400
Subject: RV: A little more on 7th Old
Warning: This is a long post
> > Dick Hein wrote:
> > > >
> > > Final-level old souls rarely seek remunerative employment for any
> > > period of time. /77
> > >
> > Wonder how they support themselves?
> > Kate
Hi Kate and All,
I don´t know how others do it but for me I let the universe provide and I
give of myself freely ( no charge) what I get back is always greater than how
much I would have received had I put a set price on my services. Sometimes it is
a load full of really nice hand crafted firniture that mysteriously falls into
my lap just after moving into a really nice old and forgotten mansion that has
unbelievably low rent (less than a studio apt.) or Im offered free accomodations
and meals at a tourist resort that spirit has led me to in among the Mayan
piramids in Guatamala ( while waiting for spirit to tell me why Im here I just
begin doing whatever I feel moved to do and the owner sees me as an asset and
asks me to stay.)
Or sometimes people want to give me money or goods and services because they
feel like it .I make a great whole grain nut bread here in Chile that I give
away to my friends .....sometimes they give me donations (that more than covers
the cost of ingredients) Its all about giving and receiving unconditionally.
Ive also noticed that when I want to get the resources for something that is
not in my highest good or that of the whole then I just cant seem to manifest
it....and thats quite alright with me .
Below is a copy of a response I made to someone´s question on another list
that may explain it further.I´ve lived pretty much both ends of the spectrum
from living under a tree sleeping in a hamock to 5 star type living and I enjoy
the variety of experiences this has given me . Most people consider me rich (I
feel I am) but they dont know that I may only have 1 dollar in my possesion and
a few nice things but like everything in my life it is always temporary so I
enjoy the people and things that cross my path while I have them and release
them each time I or they move on.I always give away my possesions when I go and
always get even better the next time I need something.(putting a set value on
things doesnt serve me and I feel limits what I am able to receive...so I give
it to whomever feels most appropriate to release it to at the time)
My life hasn´t always been like this .It has taken many years to release the
ingrained belief that "The World Just Doesnt Work That Way Yet !" It was not
easy as society supports my old belief very well...including family and
friends.And I don´t doubt that many of you reading this also believe that the
world hasn´t quite changed yet and that I´m living in a dream world.And thats
perfectly alright with me ...we all have our own realities and finally I´m
enjoying this one Ive worked very hard for.
There is a saying (is it in one of Richard Bach´s books?) "If you always do what
you´ve always done it will always be like its always been" I agree with this to
some extent but I also believe another saying ...the only guarantee in life is
If I want my world to be different then I have to take responsibilty by living
it the way I want it to be....I found the Night in Shining Armor in myself after
finally tiring from all the waiting and praying forever for him to hurry up and
get here and save me and the world from the awful state we got ourselves
into.The Prince never showed up so the Princess grew up and gave birth to the
Prince within .
But hey I get deeply depressed sometimes just like we all can do and I am
constantly challenged in this new way of living to make sure Ive really totally
let go of the old imprinting.And you can just imagine the level of trust that
must be developed in order to avoid nervous breakdowns when you find yourself in
foriegn countries and after a week running out of money with small kids in tow
and wondering when your going to get clear on why your guidance told you to go
there in the first place( about this time it can be very easy to doubt ones
inner guidance) But it always works out perfectly and Im in the right place at
the right time and my needs are met abundantly and life rewards me for my
courage (others see it as insanity at times)I admit Ive questioned it at times
Anyway...I couldn´t resist answering your question from my own experience
whether I am a 7th old or not....it hasn´t presented itself for me to know yet
what age or level I am."what is yours will come to you" and You always get what
you need " So I´ll get it when I get it when I need it.
*** This is the post I wrote to my Abundant living list ***
Dear Amy and anyone else curious,
Amy asks why I move around a lot from country to country.
Thats a good question ....one I´ve asked myself and my higher power quite
Well it seems I made an agreement with my higher power/god(ess)/higher self
to honor and act on guidance given to me(which Ive prayed to have all my life)
I´ve been willing to trust that the universe has my best interests in mind and
will take care of me and lead me to where ever I may best be used as an
instrument of peace and love ,inspiration and healing.
Basically I´m learning to align my will with the Greater will and surrendering
my fears and control here knowing there is a greater energy / God that I have
access to (we all do) that has a grander viewpoint so to speak of the big
picture of which we all fit into like unique puzzle pieces.
What that has to do with moving a lot is that my own inner Knowing tells me
to go and so I go or it says stay and I stay.The first few times I needed big
pushes and I was scared to pieces but every time I trust and just do it I am
blessed miraculously with rewards .Any work I do I give freely (I also receive
freely given gifts) and the universe provides me with more than if I had charged
a certain fee for my services. I consider my "services" as just me making myself
available as a conduit for whatever needs to happen at the time or circumstance
and I am open to whatever form that may take.I have played many parts I never
imagined I could play by being open to whatever is in my highest good and that
of those I am called to interact with.
Getting my rational mind to quiet down helps....as many times what I am
called to do does not make my rational mind feel comfortable.....its scared
..But later it really does make sense (and my ego and mind likes that) sometimes
later is muuuch later and surrender is a good quality to manifest.
In a group meditation during one of my many many partings my friends saw me
as a glowing ball of light bouncing all over the globe connecting and grounding
the Light like weaving.I thought this was a very beautiful description of what I
felt was happening to me but had not had it confirmed by so many others.
I think also that is why I was called to finally put my hands on a computer
two months ago (I resisted them all my life) I had asked the universe for a rest
from moving for awhile and so far Ive been in this house for 9 months now!(long
Also I wanted to be able to use my own familiar language in this way(Spanish is
a second one that Im still struggling with at times)and since my life is
surrounded by this avenue God gave me a computer to get my English speaking
The Universe really does provide .....what is yours will come to
you......even if its a message saying go here or there !
Soooooo I move a lot because I do...... and it serves..... and I like it!
I love you all .....this list is great!
in twinkling light,
*** "Do Your Dream!" *** "Allow for the Possibilty" ***
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:13:41 -0500 (EST)
<< Hitler: I find Hitler was a much better
example of a baby soul, and all the
channels i've heard of put him as baby soul. >>
Just for the record, Yarbro gives Hitler as a young warrior, which my
channeling also agrees with (I did also get that he had a discarnate priest
e.t.). Here is the complete list of what I got in 1990. As with Hussein's chart
and those of other well-known figures, I don't totally trust what I got, but
this does make a fair amount of sense to me:
Warrior/discarnate priest e.t., 3/4/2 casting (didn't get his entity for some
reason), discarnate server task companion, 47/53 m/f energy, 61 frequency, 3rd
young manifesting 2nd baby at time of death, 7 previous cycles, power position
in life quadrant, dominance, power, idealist, instinctive center/emotional part,
arrogance/greed/impatience, mercurial/lunar/plutonian (3% for the latter).
I just noticed similarities with the chart I got on Hussein. (Again: Warrior,
discarnate scholar e.t., scholar (4/4/2) casting (honorary scholar, in my
terms), cadre 23 (in my system)/entity 2, 67% male/33% female energy, 31
frequency, scholar task companion, 5th young manifesting 3rd baby, 7 previous
cycles, dominance, power, cynic, moving center (didn't get whether ordinal or
cardinal)/emotional part, arrogance, secondary stubbornness, jovial, 81 past
lives, life quadrate: power position.)
I got both as young warriors but manifesting at baby, which could explain why
they have been channeled both ways. I got them both as being in dominance, power
and arrogance, plus power quadrate.
Sarah Chambers, the first Michael channel, has gotten that one can't be
instinctively centered. She disagrees with Yarbro's channeling that feral
children are instinctively centered; she thinks they're moving centered, I
believe. She also doesn't believe one can be sexually centered, which also
disagrees with Yarbro (and what I sometimes get, although I call it being
physically [ordinally] centered).
Yarbro has described Hitler as having been insane; at least he certainly was
at the time of his death. My charts on someone who is not living always carry
the caveat: AT THE TIME OF DEATH because not everything stays the same on the
chart throughout the course of one's lifetime. Of course, the soul age one is
manifesting is an obvious example. Once in a while, the chief feature changes,
too. If Hitler had totally gone off the deep end by the time of his death, which
he apparently did, I suppose it's possible that his centering could have become
de facto in the instinctive, even though it is very unlikely that a soul would
set that up as the chosen overleaf before incarnating. I agree that an
instinctively centered person would probably look like a wild animal.
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:38:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Ducks and Swans
<< This, IMO, should be a caveat to anyone
looking to pay a channel for a
reading. If you look like a duck, walk like a duck, quack like a duck, and the
channel tells you you're a swan, you shouldn't run off and think what a
ugly swan you are.
You're probably A DUCK! ;) So read the Michael books like The Personality
Puzzle and the Basic Handbook so you know what's a swan and what's a duck.
And then make the call yourself. :) >>
I basically agree with this, but have some caveats:
It takes time to develop an "eye" for what various Michael traits actually
look and feel like, and it's rare for someone to acquire that just from reading.
Without that, one tends to be in theory and jump to conclusions based on
circumstantial evidence. A warrior feels quite different from a priest, although
both are intense in their own ways, and both carry intensity in their eyes,
albeit of a different flavor. It's the flavor that tells the tale. You can't
just look at external behaviors and assume a role. For example, someone who is
highly productive and/or blunt is not necessarily a warrior. Numerous other
traits on the Michael chart could account for those behaviors, not to mention
one's astrology, etc.
Then there are those instances when someone is a priest with a discarnate
warrior e.t. and warrior (#3) casting--or vice versa: a warrior with a
discarnate priest e.t. and priest (#6) casting; good luck on trying to guess or
read whether that is a priest or a warrior. It may have to be looked up in the
akashic records to be certain.
Also, strong imprinting in someone who is particularly susceptible to strong
imprinting can throw you off the scent. In general, artisans and scholars are
more adaptable and flexible, and sometimes they can be therefore be temporarily
or permanently imprinted to look other than they are, but it can happen with any
Another factor is trauma: I once got a woman as a third-level old server who
appeared to her son to be a young warrior. You can't get more opposite than
that. Michael's explanation was that she had been extraordinarily traumatized in
a couple past lives, and was full of anger and rage, which she made no attempt
to hide. She was not a nice person. Her son had the misconception that someone
like that had to be a young warrior, but a young warrior can also be quite a
nice person. Of course, my channeling could also have been in error, but her
son, who is a psychic, could definitely see the wounding that Michael pointed
It takes serious study to self-validate.
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 14:51:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Power vs. aggression
<< Thanks for posting this, Shepherd! :)
Interesting that you got mode of Power and not Aggression. What are the key
differences between the two and why would Saddam be one and not the other?
Power, being cardinal on the expression axis, is more felt: it's a presence
that exudes. With power mode people, you get a feeling they know what they're
talking about or that they have power--they come on strong. Whatever is inside
them is amplified, so they can't hide a bad mood. They can seem very
opinionated, and can seem to be more fervent in their opinions than they really
are. The negative pole, oppression, gives others the feeling of being beared
Aggression, being cardinal on the action axis, is expanded doing. Aggression
mode people create a whirlwind of much doing, often juggling several balls in
the air, doing many different things at once (dynamism). The negative pole,
belligerance, gives others the feeling of being beaten up. All those balls in
the air can fly off the handle, to mix metaphors, and some of them can hit you.
Aggression can make someone hyper, especially if there is also a mercurial body
By the way, at the time of the Gulf War, there was a comedy review playing
down the street from me in New York City that used topical, political material.
I cherish the title to this day: "Saddam, You're Rocking the Boat!" (A takeoff
on the song from "Guys and Dolls," "Sit Down, You're Rocking the Boat.")
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 16:10:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Power vs. aggression
Thanks so much for posting this. My son is in Aggression, and your
description fits him exactly. He is also moving centered. He has ADHD and
oppositional defiance disorder.
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 17:34:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Power vs. aggression
Thanks, Shepherd, for posting this clarification. . :)
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 12:12:23 +0000
Subject: Re: 7TH OLD remunerative employment
> Well, I'm definitely not on my last life
level, so I therefore must be
> getting a head start on this abhorrance of the 9-5 work grind.
I think this is common among old souls in general, and is not limited to 7th
I am currently working for the establishment, and looking for ways to get out
prior to my retirement being vested. I have always been fascinated with
self-reliant living, earth-sheltered homes, alternative energy, homesteading,
etc. I have a commitment to myself, that if I do finish my last nine years to
retirement that I will absolutely never be employed other than for myself again.
Another case in point. How many of the Michael channels/authors/speakers that
use that as their primary source of income are 7th old?
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 18:49:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Digest No. 1997-11-17 of Michael Teachings List
> Would you be so kind as to tell me the name of
a book or where I can find out more
> about soul-ages? I've been having a hard time determining which I am, and
> really interested....
> Thanks so much, Sandi
Most of the Michael books go into this subject. I would especially look at
the following, which I have ranked roughly in order from simplest to most
THE WORLD ACCORDING TO MICHAEL by Joya Pope, Sage Publications, 1988.
MICHAEL: THE BASIC TEACHINGS by Aaron Christeaan, JP Van Hulle, and M.C.
Clark, Michael Educational Foundation, 1988.
THE MICHAEL HANDBOOK by Jose Stevens and Simon Warwick-Smith, Warwick Press,
MESSAGES FROM MICHAEL, MORE MESSAGES FROM MICHAEL by Chelsea Quinn Yarbro,
Berkley Books, 1983, 1986
THE JOURNEY OF YOUR SOUL: A Channel Explores Channeling and the Michael
Teachings by Shepherd Hoodwin, Summerjoy Press, 1995.
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 13:30:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Hussein
I checked with a friend who has connections with the Yarbro group, and she
said that Hussein was channeled as being a baby warrior there, and Hitler a
young warrior. She didn't know any other of their overleaves.
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 16:17:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Hussein
Thanks for posting that. I think your reasons as to why we're getting the
different readings make sense, too. :)
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 15:50:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Kate's super long/ Saddam & Hitler
> Where do I come from? I grew up believing I
should get a very broad
I agree with and share a similar approach to education as you. I didn't grow
up believing I should be educated that way, even though my parents were both
educators (they saw that as a means out of poverty, not an idealistic choice of
career). It was something I evolved into. Not fully until my early 30s.
> I also come from a place of complete inner
serenity that both in the
> grandest cosmic sense and in smaller-scale worldly matters, the good
> guys or side of "light' are firmly in control. The extraterrestrials and
> various beings of higher-plane realms, while they in general will not
> interfere with our free will, will make one exception and they have
> made it clear that that is so. They will not allow us to destroy this planet
> because it is an especially
This is an obseration, not in any way a criticism: I've noticed a lot of OS's
share your firm belief in this reality. It must be extremely comforting. I wish
I could share it. But so far, anyway, it doesn't resonate with me. :) BTW, it's
not that I don't believe in ET's--the idea of *not* believing in them seems
nonsensical to me. :) (I can, of course, fully articulate why, philosophically
this viewpoint doesn't resonate for me--I can always talk on and on about *any*
of my opinions as I'm sure you've figured out by now. But this time I'll spare
> I regard it as one of my duties to always
radiate a serene confidnce
> in a positive future and to try to dissipate other people's fears of the
> future, which selfish and negatively polarized people manipulate with
> great effect.
I fully agree with you that anything we can do to re-program the
visualization for the fate of the world to something positive and life-affirming
is a very good thing to do. :)
> Anyone who follows the "earth changes" scene
can see how year after
> year, the scary predictions just don't come true, and this is true for many
> other kinds of stirred-up mass fear scenarios.
Many of the *most* scary don't come true, but I'm sure that the people living
through the Trade Center disaster and the Oklahoma disaster would feel a real
affinity for many people in other parts of the world who, much more commonly
than in the U.S., have lived through incredibly devastating wars the past 50
years (and, of course, before the past 50 years, when the world has gotten
particularly fond of "wars of ethnic cleansing"), there were always wars, always
mass killing and destruction. That kind of thing, yes, does tend to create fear
and panic. :)
I think the issue about the "accuracy" of most predictions for the future is
that in terms of spiritual predictions, people confuse metaphor and symbol with
concrete, actual, "this is what it will look like" events. Also, they don't
understand that a lot of the predicted "themes" that astrology and numerology
and the like deal with truly *have* come true. I did some of this kind of
predictive, theme-based writing with numerology in the 80s, and it can be very
accurate, esp. in retrospect, analyzing world events. I love the "upcoming
events" in terms of themes of essence, Higher Emotional Center, etc. that many
of the Michael channels do, like Kay Kamala and Joya Pope.
> So in my response about Saddam and so on, I
was doing all that rather
> than being politically correct (which I don't do, thank you).
Oh, good. ;> I think PC tends to be pretty superficial, based in "looking
good" rather than having a real sense of conscience or empathy for the pain of
> So I honestly don't know what his soul age is,
but I still strongly
> lean towards young, despite all your arguments. The fact that you or
> Christopher "channel" him a certain way doesn't make it accurate, any
> more than Shepherd or others who have him as late young. We can
> make all sorts of arguments that don't prove anything.
I agree with Christopher's response to this portion of your post: "Of
course." I believe this is a given. Ground zero, we have to admit this, in any
dialogue. I love the electronic medium, because it was the first place of human
interaction, other than among therapists, where people make a point of saying,
most of the time, IMO or IMHO, or IJMHO. :)
But we do need, I agree, to stress this very vital point over and over. To
each other and admit it ourselves. So I can equally say back at you, Ed, of
course, that : just because *you* make a very educated, passionate argument
doesn't make it "right" either. :) That's important. But it's also a big "so
what." I want to hear what you have to say, I want to be influenced by your
reasons for what you are proclaiming. I wouldn't be here if I didn't. :)
Another wierd thought on this: though theoretically, one could ultimately
come up with the an accurate reading of the overleaves of every fragment on the
planet, in trying to figure out what they are, we are up against the problem of
human subjectivity. Each person's perception is so very different, it is
difficult to get any given set of humans to totally agree on *anything*.
For example: I imagine if we set a very red apple on a table in front of a
hundred people, not every one of them would agree it was red, or even that it
was, in fact, an apple. Witnesses of accident scenese are notorious for not
agreeing on what they saw. I experienced this myself. Some years ago (when my
eyesight was still very sharp <G>), I was called on as a witness to an accident,
and I "remembered" it as happening the dead opposite of how it did. The car that
pulled off from the side street, I "remembered" as being on the main street and
This gets me to thinking: it is said that *all* human events are in the
Akashic Records, and in a like manor, for a given lifetime, all events that
happen to a fragment are in the Instintive Center. So, one could extrapolate,
that all events in my Instinctive Center, and yours and everyone else's, are in
the Akashic Records.
Having said that, I have to ask, "What is an event?" Is it something that is
actual or verifiable (if anything can truly be "verified" given the human
subjective tendency to misperceive, or perceive differently from person to
person, a given concrete object of action)? Or is it perception itself (how we
interpret an event), with all its vagaries, that is important?
In this regard, there is a whole field of psychology called "perceptual
psychology" which asserts that "events are just events, it is what you make of
them that is important," IOW, you can never *make* anyone feel anything, or do
anything, because due to the individual's personal history and personality
makeup--or past lives as well--each individual has their own unique perceptual
"filter" which busily interprets every event in a unique way. Hence, the same
kind of event that might trigger anger in me, with my particular filter, might
trigger laughter, sadness or any other response in other individuals.
With the Michael overleaf chart we have a, granted, very sophisticated,
system for classification of human personality traits and the ways that a given
fragment/person might choose to express those traits. But in the end, one might
say, each of us using this classification system has our own history and
perception for applying it.
Can this also be true of even the Akashic Records, wherein reside the
"ultimate, real truth"? Might they contain not just the
actual-by-gosh-overleaves on each of us, but a whole series or sets of
*perceptions* of those overleaves and what they mean? That is, lists of bogus or
spinoff interpretations of each individual's overleaves, twists of them,
distortions of them of our own and others perceptions of us that are coming from
all that info (much of it highly chaotic) from all of our various Instinctive
Centers that is being filed away neatly, right alongside the Real Truth, in the
Could this be yet another reason (excuse? <G>) that channels get different
readings, even from the Akashic Records, on a person's overleaves?
(Not to mention that many people choose to express, often almost equally,
double sets of different overleaves, most especially the chief negative
I find this kind of train of thought to be incredibly mind boggling. Which is
why I have *real* trouble with the whole Parallel Universe concept. It adds, for
me anyway, yet another dimension of confusion to the whole Michael theory I
don't want or need.
The reason I was drawn to the Michael Teachings in the first place was its
ability to simplify and "elegantly explain" a whole lot of confusing human
relationship stuff. The more we get into issues like parallel universes,
instinctual-center-stored perceptions (and karmic agreements) and real vs.
pseudo or false memories and the like, the less that simplicity can hold.
> I disagree with the idea that he was
instinctively centered. Please
> excuse the strong statement, but the channel that said that should have
> provided a substantial theoretical explanation to cover a big departure
> from the maintream of the Michael materials.
I agree with you on this and Shepherd's post in response to this.
> I read a little of Alice Miller's book once,
the part where she
> explained how Hitler was the very rare victim of three circumstances >
which allowed the monster to develop. 1) he suffered extreme abuse
> in his family; 2) he didn't have anyone, ever, to confide in or seek
> comfort from about it; and 3) he was in Germany of the time, a very
> rigid pariarchal baby soul society where such things were normal and
She also brought up a fascinating (and somewhat horrifying) point: she felt
that if he had had children of his own to abuse, it might have difused some of
his violence and lessened his need to commit genocide. Imagine: child abuse may
be an innoculation for some psychopaths against mass murder. <shudder>
It is true that many mass murderers are extreme loners. I was reading that
for many stalkers, the only "intimate" relationship they have ever had is with
their victim--they spend all their time obsessing on every detail of the
> If he were instinctively centered people would
never have been
> attracted to him in a lasting way (if even that) and competing leaders
> could have easily outwitted him and put him down.
> There is a whole interesting subject beyond
our scope of how the
> various extraterrestrial societies of past and present and of the two
> polarities have poured tremendous energy into trying to influence us.
> It seems that Hitler was greatly supported and energized by what we
> call the dark side. Ascended masters' channeled information is quite
> good on this. Anyway, briefly, Hitler used his mind consciously and
> deliberately in ways that he couldn't have done if instinctively centered.
I've read that Hitler consciously contacted Satan. Michael doesn't really go
into the "dark side" and the "light side," does he? If so, I haven't heard it.
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 15:52:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael Readings
> I do an extensive one-page chart (about 20
pieces of information on
> it) for $40 ($30 each if you order 10+). There's a blank chart form in my
> book, "The Journey of Your Soul," showing most of the information included.
> also do what I call a Michael Reading, in which I thoroughly explain and
> interpret your chart; that's $120 (including the channeling). You can tell
> your profession, hobbies and aspirations, and I can address how they fit
> with your chart. I can also correlate your chart with that of another
> For non-local clients, I do it on cassette and mail it. After listening to
> it, you can call to discuss it.
Thanks so much for posting what you do for channeling! :)
> I also do channeling sessions, during which
you can ask any questions
> you wish. Michael through me is especially strong in shedding light on the
> deepest causes of the situations we deal with, and helping to bring
> changes. Sessions also include transformational energy work.
That's great! :)
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 15:54:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Saddam's overleaves
> For what it's worth, these are the overleaves
I channeled for Saddam
> Hussein in Feb., 1990. I feel I'm on shaky ground when it comes to
> channeling charts on well-known people, because the waters can easily
> get muddied, for various reasons.
I think one of the biggest problems is that the ultimate source of
verification is supposed to be the person himself, and for many celebrities,
this is never, ever going to happen.
> Warrior, discarnate scholar e.t., scholar
(4/4/2) casting (honorary
> scholar, in my terms), cadre 23 (in my system)/entity 2, 67% male/33% female
> energy, 31 frequency, scholar task companion, 5th young manifesting 3rd
> 7 previous cycles, dominance, power, cynic, moving center (didn't get
> whether ordinal or cardinal)/emotional part, arrogance, secondary
> stubbornness, jovial, 81 past lives, life quadrate: power position.
Thanks for posting that!
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 15:56:20 -0500
Subject: Re: 7TH OLD remunerative employment
> << Final-level old souls rarely seek
remunerative employment for any
> period of time. /77 >>
> Wonder how they support themselves? <G> >>
> I take that to mean that they try to be self-employed if possible,
> trying to avoid being tied down to the 9-5, where one is often controlled by
> whims of others, which is probably not a natural or happy way of life for
> many people anyway. Other alternatives include: choosing rich parents or a
> rich spouse, and a shopping cart with lots of big black plastic bags.
Well, I'm not 7th level, only 6th, but I've tried living in the woods,
support of spouse and have *always* preferred self-employment to any other kind.
<G> Maybe the 7th level old is just the extreme intensification of tendencies
*all* old souls have in this regard, esp. when they are in a non-old soul
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 16:01:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Hitler
> I got both as young warriors but manifesting
at baby, which could
> explain why they have been channeled both ways. I got them both as
> being in dominance, power and arrogance, plus power quadrate.
Good point. When I do a full chart, I do what age they are manifesting at,
which I didn't do for Hitler. Sorry about that, all.
What is the "power quadrate"? Or which of the books is it in, I'll look it
up--don't mean to make you write out something I can look up. I have a complete
collection now! (Found the out of print Yarbro's in a lending library online!)
> Sarah Chambers, the first Michael channel, has
gotten that one can't
> be instinctively centered. She disagrees with Yarbro's channeling that
> feral children are instinctively centered; she thinks they're moving
> centered, I believe. She also doesn't believe one can be sexually
> centered, which also disagrees with Yarbro (and what I sometimes get,
> although I call it being physically [ordinally] centered).
That's what I had heard. Thanks for sharing this! :)
> Yarbro has described Hitler as having been
insane; at least he certainly
> was at the time of his death. My charts on someone who is not living
> always carry the caveat: AT THE TIME OF DEATH because not everything
> stays the same on the chart throughout the course of one's lifetime. Of
> course, the soul age one is manifesting is an obvious example. Once in
> a while, the chief feature changes, too. If Hitler had totally gone off the
> deep end by the time of his death, which he apparently did, I suppose it's
> possible that his centering could have become de facto in the instinctive,
> even though it is very unlikely that a soul would set that up as the chosen
> overleaf before incarnating. I agree that an instinctively centered person
> probably look like a wild animal.
Thanks so much for writing this. It makes much sense to me!
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 16:07:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Ducks and Swans
> <<This, IMO, should be a caveat to anyone
looking to pay a channel for
> a reading. If you look like a duck, walk like a duck, quack like a duck, and
> the channel tells you you're a swan, you shouldn't run off and think what a
> horribly ugly swan you are. You're probably A DUCK! ;) So read the Michael
> books like The Personality Puzzle >>
> I basically agree with this, but have some caveats:
> It takes time to develop an "eye" for what various Michael traits
> actually look and feel like, and it's rare for someone to acquire
> that just from reading. Without that, one tends to be in theory and
> jump to conclusions based on circumstantial evidence.
This makes sense. Which is why I find it pointless, for me at least, to spend
a lot of time studying to gain a (for me theoretical rather than actual) ability
to "read" what a person's overleaves are just by looking at them. I much prefer
*not* looking at a picture of a person when I do a channeling for the same
> A warrior feels quite different from a priest,
although both are
> intense in their own ways, and both carry intensity
> in their eyes, albeit of a different flavor. It's the flavor that
> tells the tale. You can't just look at external behaviors and
> assume a role. For example, someone who is highly productive
> and/or blunt is not necessarily a warrior. Numerous other traits
> on the Michael chart could account for those behaviors, not to
> mention one's astrology, etc.
Do you use astrology and/or numerology to help you do your Michael readings?
I find this does indeed add an interesting wrinkle to the whole overleaves
> Then there are those instances when someone is
a priest with a
> discarnate warrior e.t. and warrior (#3) casting--or vice versa: a
> warrior with a discarnate priest e.t. and priest (#6) casting; good
> luck on trying to guess or read whether that is a priest or a warrior.
> It may have to be looked up in the akashic records to be certain.
This was the problem that so many channels, and myself, were having with me.
Is she a Sage or a Scholar. I think your explanation in your book on casting
finally solved it for me. I am a Scholar with Sage casting and *extremely*
strong Sage imprint from my father.
> Also, strong imprinting in someone who is
particularly susceptible to
> strong imprinting can throw you off the scent.
Yes, very much the case with me. Numerologically, my "foundation" number,
"K", first letter in my birth name, is 11/2, the way I have manifested it
(looking at the rest of my chart) is to be a background or support person, and
as such I have been very much of a chameleon--something, as you say, that
Scholars excel at.
> In general, artisans and scholars are more
adaptable and flexible, and
> sometimes they can be therefore be temporarily or permanently imprinted
> to look other than they are, but it can
> happen with any role.
Yes, I agree, this is especially easy to happen to Scholars.
> Another factor is trauma: I once got a woman
as a third-level old
> server who appeared to her son to be a young warrior. You can't get
> more opposite than that. Michael's explanation was that she had been
> extraordinarily traumatized in a couple past lives, and was full of anger
> and rage, which she made no attempt to hide. She was not a nice person.
> Her son had the misconception that someone like that had to be a young
> warrior, but a young warrior can also be quite a nice person. Of course,
> my channeling could also have been in error, but her son, who is a psychic,
> could definitely see the wounding that Michael pointed out.
Very good point. Thanks for sharing that. Fascinating!
> It takes serious study to self-validate.
Yes, I agree. It can take years, even for a channel intensely into
self-analysis. I can vouch for that. <G>
It's a two-fold process of study, not just knowing yourself really well, but
knowing the teachings really, really well. Both can take time. :) But, hey, the
journey is fun. <G>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 16:15:19 -0500
Subject: Re: 7TH OLD remunerative employment
John Rogers wrote:
> I think this is common among old souls in
general, and is
> not limited to 7th old.
> I am currently working for the establishment,
and looking for ways to
> get out prior to my retirement being vested. I have always been
> fascinated with self-reliant living, earth-sheltered homes,
> alternative energy, homesteading, etc. I have a commitment to
> myself, that if I do finish my last nine years to retirement that I
> will absolutely never be employed other than for myself again.
So there's an "IF" about finishing that nine years now? <G>
> Another case in point. How many of the Michael
> channels/authors/speakers that use that as their primary source of
> income are 7th old?
At least several I know of.
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 23:39:43 -0500
Subject: Re: RV: A little more on 7th Old
Thanks so much for sharing your post. I found it utterly fascinating.
Especially the part about finding yourself in a foreign country with two kids in
Are you a parent then? If so, when did you have your children, at what age,
and how old are you and they now?
I would also love it if any of you Old Souls out there who have had children
would share your experiences of what that is like for you.
I have stories to tell and I'm sure you do, too.
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 22:47:55 -0400
Subject: Married with children
> Thanks so much for sharing your post. I found it utterly fascinating.
> Especially the part about finding yourself in a foreign country with two
> kids in tow.
> Are you a parent then? If so, when did you have your children, at what
> age, and how old are you and they now?
> I would also love it if any of you Old Souls out there who have had
> children would share your experiences of what that is like for you.
> I have stories to tell and I'm sure you do, too.
*** *** *** *** ***
Hi Kate and All, You really want to know all this?.......... I have had 7
pregnancies...(here´s an opportunity to examine judgement stuff...it worked for
1)1978 - (17 yrs old) "first love" - begged the powers that be to make it not
so - that I wasn´t ready but would make up for it later (very early miscarriage)
2)1983(21 yrs)---"first-husband" We decided not to get married just because we
were expected to then did it anyway for tax reasons (his) (had an empathic
connection with this baby,Jesse)
She was stillborn at 8mos along
This was a priceless gift in disguise.....I got to experience the physical
sensations of giving birth without worrying about the baby´s pain (I knew she
had died 2 wks earlier) and learned also that drugs did nothing to relieve the
pain so knew I wouldn´t feel a need to use them in future. It also taught me to
listen to my own body and rely on what I know to be true for me -not to give
away my power to "authority-figures"-at least with chid-bearing .It took many
years before I fully became my own authority.in all areas of my life..finally
its no big deal.
However I was suicidal afterwards and left my abusing husband (of drugs and
me) and had several dream visits by my daughter and an Angel and was shown a
past pattern of several lifetimes with suicidal endings and told I was meant to
finish up this time. (making it past 29 was the big challenge) "Stay alive",
they encouraged. Apparently Id been trying to leave since I got here through
accidents, disease, or poisoning before I was 4 or 5. I dont have many memories
before age 8.
1983 (22yrs) got pregnant while separated by someone else and was getting
back together with my husband and he refused to accept someone elses baby and I
wasn´t ready to be a single parent and couldnt bear having a child whos
father-figure resented him so I did what I thought Id never do..........had an
abortion....and I released more judgements. I asked the baby to come back when
the father agreed.
1985 (24 yrs) After lots of emotional healing on my core beliefs around
chilbirth and parenting I had a wonderful, painless, 3 hour homebirth with a
midwife. On Easter day my daughter Cassidy came back like she said she would.
Something else interesting was the baby I had aborted asked to come in with my
daughter about a month before she was born...I recognised the energy as the same
one I aborted....I said terrific I always wanted to have twins but he would have
to get the ok from his dad too. Somehow I knew this was important for this soul.
I shared the experience with his dad and when he learned it was the same baby as
the one I got pregnant by another man he rejected him again...he knew the one
baby I was carrying was his. And they bonded immediately while only her head was
out she turned and looked calmly into his eyes with such love. She was my
"velcro" high need, strong-willed baby that insisted on being physically
connected to me for the first two yrs of her life...she finally gave up the
breast to let her brother get his. She insisted he was her baby and had to be
ther for his birth.......making her own labor noises during transition and
telling her doll all about it.....she was 2 and a half!
1987 (26yrs) A week before I got pregnant my son came to me to ask to come in
again (by this time he had tried many times....my stillbirth experience showed 2
placentas grown together being larger than the baby....one baby had
disappeared...my son...the empathic link was with his energy...I recognised this
after he was finally born) I was happy and reminded him that his dad and I had
to come together at least sexually and for him to talk to his dad. I saw a
psychic aquaintance the next day and he said ,"Oh you´re pregnant again" and I
said "almost, give me a week or two and I will be physically too." Beau was also
born at home on a Sunday after a short but intense labor.....the unusually short
cord was wrapped around his foot being held back and pushed forward at the same
time....kinda symbolic actually.
He and I still have an empathic relationship (its nice because he lives in Texas
now and Im in Chile and we can tune into each other to see how the other is
Well Ive written a lot (more than Id intended ) and Ive got two more
wonderful sons to introduce to you if youre still interested (for another day) I
tend to get real personal real fast......Im not superficial at all.....intensity
and depth are good descriptive words for my experiences of my life.
And Thanks Kate for asking.........Id like to hear some of your stories and
anyone elses too .......old or young or whatever.
lots a love,
PS. I am now 36
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 00:04:08 -0800
Subject: Re: Kate's super long/ Saddam & Hitler (1997-47/178)
This, IMO, is a most interesting thread. And I don't pretend to be in the
same league as the primary posters (my self-dep not withstanding!). But I do
have a couple of comments...
| Ed wrote:
| > I also come from a place of complete inner serenity that both in the
| > grandest cosmic sense and in smaller-scale worldly matters, the good
| > guys or side of "light' are firmly in control. The extraterrestrials
| > and various beings of higher-plane realms, while they in general will
| > not interfere with our free will, will make one exception and they
| > have made it clear that that is so. They will not allow us to destroy
| > this planet because it is an especially
| Kate wrote:
| This is an observation, not in any way a criticism: I've noticed a lot
| of OS's share your firm belief in this reality. It must be extremely
| comforting. I wish I could share it. But so far, anyway, it doesn't
| resonate with me. :) BTW, it's not that I don't believe in ET's--the
| idea of *not* believing in them seems nonsensical to me. :) (I can, of
| course, fully articulate why, philosophically this viewpoint doesn't
| resonate for me--I can always talk on and on about *any* of my opinions
| as I'm sure you've figured out by now. But this time I'll spare you. <G>)
Two comments here -
1. In _Cosmic Journey_ Courtney Brown states (recalling now from having read
the book almost a year ago) that his contacts with ETs through remote viewing
(RV) provided him the knowledge that they will not interfere with the activities
of humans unless asked. They will not "rescue" us from our destiny, as we are a
free-will species. If there is an exception to this, I don't recall seeing it
2. According to information from Michael obtained in group channel sessions,
this planet has been destroyed by atomic means in some parallels. And in others,
atomic energy was never developed.
| > Anyone who follows the "earth changes" scene
can see how year after
| > year, the scary predictions just don't come true, and this is true for
| > many other kinds of stirred-up mass fear scenarios.
On this parallel...
| > So in my response about Saddam and so on, I
was doing all that rather
| > than being politically correct (which I don't do, thank you).
| Oh, good. ;> I think PC tends to be pretty superficial, based in
| "looking good" rather than having a real sense of conscience or empathy
| for the pain of others. :)
| Another wierd thought on this: though
theoretically, one could
| ultimately come up with the an accurate reading of the overleaves of
| every fragment on the planet, in trying to figure out what they are, we
| are up against the problem of human subjectivity. Each person's
| perception is so very different, it is difficult to get any given set of
| humans to totally agree on *anything*.
Are you saying that human subjectivity has =that= much of an influence on
| For example: I imagine if we set a very red
apple on a table in front of
| a hundred people, not every one of them would agree it was red, or even
| that it was, in fact, an apple. Witnesses of accident scenese are
| notorious for not agreeing on what they saw. I experienced this myself.
| Some years ago (when my eyesight was still very sharp <G>), I was called
| on as a witness to an accident, and I "remembered" it as happening the
| dead opposite of how it did. The car that pulled off from the side
| street, I "remembered" as being on the main street and vice versa.
I have heard of this. I wonder if maybe the stress of the moment causes one
to view alternate parallels during the time of the stress.
| This gets me to thinking: it is said that
*all* human events are in the
| Akashic Records, and in a like manor, for a given lifetime, all events
| that happen to a fragment are in the Instintive Center. So, one could
| extrapolate, that all events in my Instinctive Center, and yours and
| everyone else's, are in the Akashic Records.
Not exactly. Again, recalling from memory without going back to research the
info, partly in _Journey_ and partly from channel sessions. There are two
different things - akashic records and the akashic plane. Each fragment (and
each hierarchical grouping of fragments?) has their own akashic records. For
fragments, they are in the instinctive center. The akashic plane consists of
distillation of those akashic records, retaining only the lessons learned.
Scholars are the ones who do the distillation, in a manner I'm unaware of. It's
done at the time of a particular reintegration, but I don't recall the details.
| Having said that, I have to ask, "What is an
event?" Is it something
| that is actual or verifiable (if anything can truly be "verified" given
| the human subjective tendency to misperceive, or perceive differently
| from person to person, a given concrete object of action)? Or is it
| perception itself (how we interpret an event), with all its vagaries,
| that is important?
Since the record being made is for a particular fragment, it would make
little sense for it to be of something the fragment did not perceive. Whether
the record also contains what actually happened, if different from what was
perceived (can there be such a thing?), is a good question.
| In this regard, there is a whole field of
psychology called "perceptual
| psychology" which asserts that "events are just events, it is what you
| make of them that is important," IOW, you can never *make* anyone feel
| anything, or do anything, because due to the individual's personal
| history and personality makeup--or past lives as well--each individual
| has their own unique perceptual "filter" which busily interprets every
| event in a unique way. Hence, the same kind of event that might trigger
| anger in me, with my particular filter, might trigger laughter, sadness
| or any other response in other individuals.
IOW, perception is everything.
| With the Michael overleaf chart we have a,
granted, very sophisticated,
| system for classification of human personality traits and the ways that
| a given fragment/person might choose to express those traits. But in the
| end, one might say, each of us using this classification system has our
| own history and perception for applying it.
As with everything else we do.
| Can this also be true of even the Akashic
Records, wherein reside the
| "ultimate, real truth"? Might they contain not just the
| actual-by-gosh-overleaves on each of us, but a whole series or sets of
| *perceptions* of those overleaves and what they mean? That is, lists of
| bogus or spinoff interpretations of each individual's overleaves, twists
| of them, distortions of them of our own and others perceptions of us
| that are coming from all that info (much of it highly chaotic) from all
| of our various Instinctive Centers that is being filed away neatly,
| right alongside the Real Truth, in the Akashic Records?
I think the explanation above clears a lot of this up. Each individual's own
records will contain, I think, their own perceptions and all their variations,
because that is their history. Their own overleaves, of course, are part of who
they are for the life. But their perceptions of those overleaves are
experiences, and they will go into their records.
| Could this be yet another reason (excuse? )
that channels get
| different readings, even from the Akashic Records, on a person's
As I understand it, it takes quite a bit of energy to research the akashic
records on the akashic plane. I think it's probably the case that most channels
provide overleaves from Michael's reading of the person's aura and whatever else
they can see, that indicate what is in the instinctive center.
| (Not to mention that many people choose to
express, often almost
| equally, double sets of different overleaves, most especially the chief
| negative feature.)
This undoubtedly comes into play.
| I find this kind of train of thought to be
incredibly mind boggling.
| Which is why I have *real* trouble with the whole Parallel Universe
| concept. It adds, for me anyway, yet another dimension of confusion to
| the whole Michael theory I don't want or need.
It =is= an added dimension, and can be confusing. But it is very real. Within
the last few months I have had 3 convincing demonstrations of parallels, one
just a couple of days ago. Very interesting, actually.
| The reason I was drawn to the Michael
Teachings in the first place was
| its ability to simplify and "elegantly explain" a whole lot of confusing
| human relationship stuff. The more we get into issues like parallel
| universes, instinctual-center-stored perceptions (and karmic agreements)
| and real vs. pseudo or false memories and the like, the less that
| simplicity can hold.
As I am sure most of us are aware, in the early Yarbro books there was no
mention of parallel universes, concurrent incarnations, or even major cycles
(although these were hinted at). The Michael teachings, and indeed all teachings
to a degree, are merely models of only a small part of a vast reality. We can
choose to pursue those teachings as far as we wish, but the vastness of reality
will always be there.
| > There is a whole interesting subject beyond
our scope of how the
| > various extraterrestrial societies of past and present and of the two
| > polarities have poured tremendous energy into trying to influence us.
| > It seems that Hitler was greatly supported and energized by what we
| > call the dark side. Ascended masters' channeled information is quite
| > good on this. Anyway, briefly, Hitler used his mind consciously and
| > deliberately in ways that he couldn't have done if instinctively
| > centered.
| I've read that Hitler consciously contacted Satan. Michael doesn't
| really go into the "dark side" and the "light side," does he? If so, I
| haven't heard it.
Neither have they done much WRT ET species and their activities. I guess the
closest thing Michael has done WRT "dark side" and "light side" is the basic
idea of love- or fear-based actions, positive/negative poles, and the Chief
Negative Feature (CNF).
Dick Hein / Mountain View, California.
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:02:53 -0800
> | In this regard, there is a whole field of
psychology called "perceptual
> | psychology" which asserts that "events are just events, it is what you
> | make of them that is important," IOW, you can never *make* anyone feel
> | anything, or do anything, because due to the individual's personal
> | history and personality makeup--or past lives as well--each individual
> | has their own unique perceptual "filter" which busily interprets every
> | event in a unique way. Hence, the same kind of event that might trigger
> | anger in me, with my particular filter, might trigger laughter, sadness
> | or any other response in other individuals.
> IOW, perception is everything.
There is something about this that really bothers me. I mean, intellectually,
I would agree, it makes sense, but on other levels, it lacks something.... It's
like the nice, pat, simplistic little new-age saying, "You create your own
reality," that people use to not only explain away tragic events in people's
lives, but also to then not take responsibility for their own part in it--lots
of blame and judgement there! It feels very uncompassionate and I can't believe
it is the whole truth. I do not believe I know the whole truth either, but I
have some additions.
This is what I would add to what Kate and Dick said above: Remember in one of
the "Messages from Michael" books, where Michael describes different kinds of
karma and how we create it, and one of them was called, "mind-f***" where you
mess with someone's mind and that makes some kind of karma? Imposing one's will
over another without their consent creates karma. Brainwashing would be an
extreme example. Therefore, by your actions or words, you *can* and *do* make
others feel or do certain things they otherwise would not have. And often times
the karma itself is still about what Dick said: perception. Even so, you can be
totally oblivious to how an action or imposition over others, and in that, there
is a lesson for both sides. Consciously or unconsciously, you can still use your
power to make some people do or feel something. You need to be a very very
perceptive and aware person, IMO, to avoid affecting others with your "stuff."
I probably have Michael's saying, "All is chosen" tatooed on my brain by now,
but I always remember that it doesn't translate to, "All is chosen by me." So it
goes--we all are affected by the choices of others, as well as our own choices.
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 05:41:22 +0900 (JST)
Subject: Re: perception?
At 19:50 30/11/1997 -0000, Lori Tostado wrote:
> in that, there is a lesson for both sides.
> unconsciously, you can still use your power to make some people do or
> feel something. You need to be a very very perceptive and aware person,
> IMO, to avoid affecting others with your "stuff."
> I probably have Michael's saying, "All is chosen" tatooed on my brain by
> now, but I always remember that it doesn't translate to, "All is chosen
> by me." So it goes--we all are affected by the choices of others, as
> well as our own choices.
Thanks for this posting. I will be turning 52 in a few weeks (sure, one's
life age does not matter much, but it does to some extent) and I have learnt a
lot in those lines. This is a bitter example. I live in Japan. I few yers ago I
was very happy to find a particular teacher who came here regularly and when I
met this teacher for the weekend course I told enthusiastically how,
synchronistically, I had made it to this person's demonstation in the first
place. I was taken aback by her remark, 'I don't care.'
I first thought it was me being childish telling a teacher how happy I was to
meet someone who was teaching what I had been looking for... I thought I was
creating this unloving experience... I tried again and again to prove myself the
guilty part and got so disappointed to the point where I decided: this person is
not a spiritual teacher, this person is teaching a spiritual technique for
money. I have met so meny teachers of the same technique that have not placed
money in the first place. Obviously, money is or is not an issue...
In the example I am giving, the teacher in question was affecting others with
their own stuff. I have learnt how to elect a teacher as one my teachers.
What has been wonderful in the Michael teaching people is that money does not
come first, but money follows.
Think of the medical profession. A hospital where you work as a medical
doctor geta a patient that is dyiig... No insurance... No family... No
anything... The reception person comes to you with this case... The hsopital has
this regulation that only allows insured or paying patients to be accepted. What
do you do?
I am deliberately keeping the relevant part of your message, and the answer
to me would be to challenge the system and try to save the patient, in spite of
his or my own "stuff". This is a common scenario in many places of the world.
Your posting invokes compassion...
Tough question, I'm afraid.
Jose (Jose Caldeira)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 00:58:22 -0500
Subject: Re: perception?
I enjoyed your thoughtful, insightful post. Thanks!
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 16:37:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Kate's comments
<< Maybe the 7th level old is just the extreme
intensification of tendencies *all* old souls have in this regard, esp.
when they are in a non-old soul society? >>
I agree. And it can apply to unconventional mature souls, too, and artists of
any soul age, that there is a desire to avoid a rigid 9-5 life.
<< What is the "power quadrate"? Or which of the
books is it in, I'll look
it up >>
This is the one item on my chart I don't cover in my book; it might be in one
of Jose Stevens', but I think with a little different slant. I originally heard
about it from JP Van Hulle's channeling. I had dropped it from my chart because
I didn't think it was that important, but restored it after my books came out
because some scholar clients kept asking for it.
It's simple: in any group, there are four basic functions, and we specialize
in one in each lifetime, although we can do the others also:
Love position initiates. "Let's go to a movie!" for example.
Knowledge position provides information to the group (scholars don't always
do this within groups). "I know where a good movie is playing and how to get
Power position powers the group to take action. "C'mon everyone, let's get in
Support position mediates and helps: "I'll get popcorn."
For the record, the word "quadrant" refers only to the quarter, or the part.
The word "quadrate," found in Yarbro, refers to a whole that contains four
JP and Jose have used these same four terms, I believe, to refer to the
positions in groupings of four specific people who have agreed to work together
over several lifetimes on a project. It can be expanded: a fifth person, for
example, would have the "eccentric" position. I think the sixth person occupies
the "compassion" position, and so on, until you get the 12 positions of the
support circle. I've never gotten material about this in my channeling--it just
doesn't seem to come up for me. Barbara, perhaps you can clarify and expand on
<< I much prefer *not* looking at a picture of a
person when I do
a channeling for the same reason. >>
I find it fun and educational to look at someone's picture and try to guess
his role before channeling his chart. Over time, I've learned to recognize a
sage's smile, a priest's eyes, a scholar's neutral look, etc. I'm often wrong,
but I'm usually I'm in the ballpark. If I guess king, it's usually at least a
scholar with a discarnate king essence twin bleeding through, for example. In
other words, I usually pick up the energies, but not necessarily where they go
on the chart. This allows me to use the teachings without always going to
Michael to get a chart, although if it's an important person in my life, I'll
generally do a chart eventually.
An especially good way to learn the teachings is to observe a lot of people
whose overleaves have been well validated. For example, after I'd been around a
bunch of sages, I began to notice the sort of crooked, mischievous smile many of
us share in common, and now when I see it in someone new, I guess sage, and look
for other clues. Unless someone has a complicated chart, with a lot of opposite
things going on, this works pretty well.
<< Do you use astrology and/or numerology to
help you do your Michael
readings? I find this does indeed add an interesting wrinkle to the
whole overleaves situation. >>
No. I'm not an astrologer, but I have several clients who are, and they find
parallels and correlations, most directly with body types.
A friend knows an astrologer who gives out Michael charts solely based on
people's birth charts. She thinks he's pretty accurate, but I would use that
more as a validation than as a source.
A combined Michael/astrology/numerology reading would be a very complete life
reading. [My apologies to Ed who thinks numerology is nonsense. My own take is
that everything has a vibration that affects us, including our names. Maybe
numerology translates them into a meaningful form.]
<< > It takes serious study to self-validate.
Yes, I agree. It can take years, even for a channel intensely into
self-analysis. I can vouch for that. <G>
It's a two-fold process of study, not just knowing yourself really well,
but knowing the teachings really, really well.>>
I totally agree. That's a very important point that is often overlooked.
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:35:02 -0800
Subject: Re: perception?
Lori, I know what you're sensing. I feel it too, that we live in one sea of
energy and are touched by everything that happens in that sea to a greater or
lesser extent and yet it's also true that we choose our perceptions, responses
and the creation of our own world within that sea of energy. When it goes to the
extreme of saying nothing anyone else does matters to anyone else's ability to
be what they want in their own world, there's a loss of compassion simultaneous
with an affirmation of our ability to exist and radiate our own beingness within
any situation. There's truth in both. But it's not an excuse to not care how we
treat one another or to not recognize how our choices, words, actions and being
influence our own lives and ripple out and touch so many others. I think about
this often. What is truly loving? What things are and aren't our responsibility?
I do think the final responsibility for our choices rests in our own hands.
And when that choice is taken away by situations or actions of others, events
will happen to address that infringement and imbalance until there's a greater
appreciation, respect and honor of others and ourselves. But also there are many
times, people can simply choose differently and don't-- to be out of a situation
that isn't healthy in some way. That can be acknowledged too. So much that's out
of balance we willingly dance with, just because we might not yet know a better
way. It may not make it the fault of the dancing partner that we're willing to
do the dance....
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:09:37 -0800
Subject: karma and perception
To no one in particular...just an addition that also comes to mind...
Sometimes I get the sense that there's a feeling of karma being like some mac
truck bearing down on us that we have little control over. But if you see the
truck, you _can_ step out of the way. We don't have to be like deer,
night-blinded, and just let it hit us. Once you see the truck, there's usually a
range of choices possible and the more conscious we become, the more choices
open up to us....
Just needed to add that in with my last post.
That karma is not an excuse for us to be irresponsible in our lives and with
each other. Unless we want to wade in it forever. As soon as we see another
choice, we _can_ go for it. Yes, sometimes it will take a while to learn the
rest of what it takes to make something possible. Yes, sometimes learning seems
and is very gradual. Other times there will be insights and we can leap into new
ways of being.
Best to all,
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:50:55 -0800
Subject: Re: perception?
Jose Caldeira wrote:
> Thanks for this posting. I will be turning 52 in a few weeks (sure, one's
> life age does not matter much, but it does to some extent) and I have learnt
> a lot in those lines.
Hi Jose! I do think your physical age makes a difference in many
cases--you've got a lot of direct life-experiences to share, and the wisdom that
comes from that. For example, back when the discussion thread was all about the
4th internal monad--I didn't post anything about that, because I haven't been
there yet in this life, and other people on the list were much better equipped
to handle that subject, all those who have been through it. :^) (I'm 28.)
> This is a bitter example. I live in Japan. I
> ago I was very happy to find a particular teacher who came here regularly
> and when I met this teacher for the weekend course I told enthusiastically
> how, synchronistically, I had made it to this person's demonstation in the
> first place. I was taken aback by her remark, 'I don't care.'
Wow, that must have made you feel really humiliated and inadequate. How
ingratiating for her to say that to you. At least she could have said, "Well,
I'm glad you made it!" because, no matter how self-centered she might have been,
undoubtedly somewhere within her she was glad you were there, even if it was
just as a paying customer to her. Business people who don't appreciate their
customers lose them. I really like to express my appreciation to my spiritual
teachers too, like you! It would hurt me too if they wouldn't accept it.
> I first thought it was me being childish
telling a teacher how happy I was
> to meet someone who was teaching what I had been looking for... I thought I
> was creating this unloving experience... I tried again and again to prove
> myself the guilty part and got so disappointed to the point where I decided:
> this person is not a spiritual teacher, this person is teaching a spiritual
> technique for money. I have met so meny teachers of the same technique that
> have not placed money in the first place. Obviously, money is or is not an
Yes, it's usually pretty clear when you meet the teachers, whether or not
they really care about the people they are dealing with. Still, they've got to
work to live too--but like you, I'm wary of the ones who seem to think they
aren't getting paid to care.... It is often that in-person meeting that shifts
your perception of who you thought they were and who they really are. Reminds me
of this quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson: "What you are speaks so loudly, I cannot
hear what you say." This is one that I think about often. Is who we are defined
by what we do? Society would say yes, but, I would say no..... But what we do or
say often speaks multitudes about who we are, doesn't it?
> In the example I am giving, the teacher in
question was affecting others
> with their own stuff. I have learnt how to elect a teacher as one my
I'm sorry--I don't understand your last sentence above--can you explain
> What has been wonderful in the Michael
teaching people is that money does
> not come first, but money follows.
Well, with most of them anyway.... :^)
> Think of the medical profession. A hospital
where you work as a medical
> doctor geta a patient that is dyiig... No insurance... No family... No
> anything... The reception person comes to you with this case... The hsopital
> has this regulation that only allows insured or paying patients to be
> accepted. What do you do?
Ironic, isn't it? It still blows my mind the disparity between the "haves"
and the "have-nots" of this world.... Still, each of us can make a difference,
no matter how small.
> I am deliberately keeping the relevant part of
your message, and the answer
> to me would be to challenge the system and try to save the patient, in spite
> of his or my own "stuff". This is a common scenario in many places of the
> Your posting invokes compassion...
> Tough question, I'm afraid.
Yes, I agree.
My heart to yours,
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 16:21:35 -0800
Subject: Re: karma and perception
Thanks Brin for those pearls of wisdom.
I think that if we're here in the physical, then we've opted into the big
game. Whether or not we play the smaller games, like the blame game, the
judgement game, the competition game, is up to us. Although it's often hard to
identify all those limiting core beliefs about ourselves and how life is, that
make those littler games show up in our lives. But when we do change our
limiting beliefs, that changes our whole reality.
Steve Cocconi told me this Michael quote, "Everyone is responsible, but no
one is to blame." (Ok, ok, that's my last quote for today! I promise! Please
refrain from throwing flaming perishable projectiles!) ;-)
Anyway--there is another choice! You can choose to hold onto your stuff and
live a miserable life, or you can choose to put it behind you. Eventually, we
let go of everything--the choice is whether it's now, or later. The compassion
comes in when we care enough about ourselves and other people to forgive and
move on, and help each other do the same.
Hugs, cuz we never get enough, :^)
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 17:51:55 -0800
Subject: Re: Perception
> Lori & Eileen,
> What you two have to say on the subject of perception is very valid and I
> also disagree with. I believe absolutely that people have to take
> responsibility for their feelings based on how we perceive things. I agree
> that we are all connected and that what we do affects the whole. I also see
> often times that what I believe to be good or bad actions, attitudes or
> behavior is nothing more than my perception of it.
Hi Peter, you make some good points!
Yes, what you said above--that's been true in my experience, too.
> Lori makes the point that we can affect other
people's emotions and thoughts
> playing with their heads. Yes, that is true and when we do that, the
> intention is to mess with someone's mind. I think that INTENTION is all
> important. For example, let's say a friend asks you about something simple
> like a new dress. You tell them, without malice, that you think another
> color or style would be better. Then, let's say that they explode and accuse
> you of making them feel like shit and never wanting them to look good. Are
> you responsible then for making them feel like shit since it was your words
> and not the intention to harm that triggered those feelings inside another?
Well, I'd say you do need to look at the results in addition to the
intention. I think you need to be responsible to at least clarify to the person
who is hurt that it wasn't your intention to do so. Does this mean you're taking
their blame they are putting on you? It could be perceived that way, in this
victim/victimizer way, but sure, you could choose something different--to just
be responsible for your words, and let them know your intention, where you're
coming from. After that, well, obviously they've got some issues you triggered
and that's their stuff. Words are so easy to misinterpret....
> I think that one of the major problems with
language is the way that it is
> structured to assume victimization. How often have we heard, "Do you know
> how that makes me feel?" or "How does that make you feel?" Nothing outside
> of you "makes" you feel anything. It is how we choose to perceive it that
> creates the emotion.
I don't know if it's just that simple though. I guess I'm just more
interested in finding what works. Results show you what works and what doesn't.
When people start saying the words always, never, all, nothing, and all those
extremes, I get skeptical. There is such a large gray area between these black
and white analogies.... Sometimes, I feel like I'm treading a very thin line,
and it's hard to balance, but when I find what works in a given situation, the
line becomes more like a stable road--going a bit to the left or a bit to the
right doesn't make you fall off. I'm looking for harmony in life.
> Someone could tell me that I will never be
> in life. I could choose to be the victim and say that I have never
> accomplished much because someone made me feel like a failure, or, I could
> take it as that person was very concerned about my success and wanted me to
> see I was taking the wrong path. Either way, I choose to perceive it how I
> will and that creates either the emotion of success or failure. That is what
> is meant by perception is everything. How we choose to interpret someone
> else's words. In that case, their intention does not matter anyway since we
> can choose to interpret any insult in a positive way.
Yes, as their intention could even be to ruin our lives, and the result could
be that we are extremely happy and successful, in spite of or because of it. I'm
still not fully convinced that perception is *everything*, although it is a very
important, major factor.
> As Michael has said, "all is choice". Lori has
said that it's not always our
> choice, but it IS our choice on how we perceive/interpret other energy and
> the emotions those perceptions create in us. We are totally responsible for
Yep, we're all responsible.
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:47:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Perception
I agree with you 100%....well put.
This was one of the best things I learned early on that has changed my
"victim" thinking into realising my own power. It was at a place called the
Living Love College in Oregan started by Ken Keyes Jr. I was 21 and the youngest
in these workshops and felt very fortunate to have gotten it so young.
No one can make you feel anything ...we feel however we choose to.
I just came across something Lori wrote (Michael ) called The Poles of the
Emotions showing us how we can change our attitude to get out of the
I think it probably resonates partly with this point. It also says something
about really honoring yourself when allowing yourself to experience all your
emotions,in whatever way is appropriate for you.
When I discovered that I had a choice to how (for example) I experienced my
first husband having a fling to "get back at me" I was able to choose to feel
compassion for him (and her) and see his underlining positive intention instead
of jelousy, hurt, rage etc. which are feelings I was expected and previuosly
imprinted to feel. I used my power of choice to create a much more loving
experience instead of the obvious one. My husband thought I was a real
luney-tune at that point and still does(my X that is)
But had I felt pissed off underneath this wouldn´t have been true and it would
have been appropriate to allow myself to experience feeling pissed off.Which Ive
felt plenty of times in my life thank you very much.....but its great when I can
catch myself in a pattern and instead ask myself how I really feel and see the
bigger thing going on.
In my house now I correct statements that slip out ...like "he made me
feel..." or "I made him feel..." "It made me feel..."instead hearing myself say
"I made myself feel so angry when ...." helps me see that the feeling part is my
responsibilty. My kids are still little and Im happy that even the 4yr old feels
in charge of his own experience. And he´s a very emotionally passionate guy and
can feel the full range of emotions all in the same breath!
I too believe that we affect the whole and that intention is important.I used
to make myself really upset when trying to make decisions....there are seems to
be someone who feels hurt by my actions,words,inaction etc..I chose to feel pain
over this until I realised that I can only take responsibility for myself and
chose what feels true to me. This can be especially challenging in a marriage
and with children. I trust that my children agreed before they were born that I
would make decisions based on what felt true to me at the time. How do I know
whats best for anyone else? I don´t...
This has led to a transformation in my 2nd marriage as well.....at one point
instead of divorcing because traditional marraige didn´t accomodate an accentric
old soul like me we just redefined our marriage. It goes something like this
.....My committment is to my own truth.I love ,honor, cherish and obey my own
spiritual path and if our paths should go in different directions then I go with
love (or release him with love) and know that we always get what we need and if
our paths need to cross again then great if not then its purpose was served and
completed. This gets more involved when there are children involved and for me
there are. Two fathers, two children with each.There have been several times
when our paths parted to seek our own paths and a few times when we didnt know
when we´d ever see each other again. These partings have most often been very
centered and easy...once I needed my "path" to give me a big push...ok,several
times. But it works for us and we are both free to do whatever we need to honor
whats calling us. For example,my husband just left for Peru tonight to pursue
his dream. The intention this time is that he will return in about a week....so
this could possibly be a very short physical absence.....and who knows! I left
for another country once with the intention of 2 yrs and it was complete in
Believe it or not the kids are well-adjusted to this as they´ve never known
it to be otherwise.They are heathy in body,mind,and spirit as far as I can
percieve.Today we called in Tobias (the 4yr old) to remind him that his daddy
was leaving in 10 min. (its not real for him until it is in his present moment)
and he immediately sobbed and kissed his daddy all over his face and cried "I´m
gonna miss you so so so so much" and Kevin said thats ok, I´m gonna miss you
too, so so so so much.And Toby cried for about 1 min. really hard and was done.
Dad left and life goes on ........besides it was fun when he called 20 min.later
on his cell phone to make sure the boys were alright. They are very sure that he
will be back when he gets back.
Ahh yes ..perception is what started me chattering....happy to have been able
to share some of mine with you all tonight.Thanks for listening!
Doing my dream.......allowing for the possibilty.......
lots of love,
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:48:17 -0800
Subject: points of power
Hi again everyone,
I just got this in the mail recently and it seemed to speak to our current
discussion so I thought I'd throw it out for everyone's consideration. It comes
from a Healing Heart Productions newsletter. And it's called the 5 Points of
1. Pay Attention. Be conscious and awake about what's going on around you.
When you're trapped (unconscious) in your history, doing things in the same old
way, you miss the opportunities available to you.
2. Keep Your Agreements. One of the causes of an enormous amount of suffering
is the way we break agreements. The costs are trust, self-esteem, dignity,
relationships, and success. Don't make them if you're not going to keep them.
3. Be Accountable. What you are _accountable_ for is your own experience; no
one else can be. We are _not_ responsible for what other people say or do, but
we are accountable for how we set things up. Notice that every time your life
was screwed up, you were present.
4. Speak the Truth. Not part of it, all of it. Every time you speak the truth
about what's going on with you, a little more peacefulness drops into your
life..."and the truth shall set you free".
5. Ask for What You Want. If you don't ask, you'll never receive. No! does
not mean that people reject you. They are simply declining your request.
These seemed like good food for thought. I can't say I nearly have these all
down and live them in my life....but they seem good things to shoot for. And
they seem to have some balance of responsibility in terms of what we've been
Best to all, Brin
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 00:06:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Married with children
Thanks so much for the first installation of your story. I'd love to hear the
I've been told that as Old Souls we come in with many, many potential
agreements to be both lovers and parents. Many fragments want to connect with
us. I think this, too, can make for a chaotic life.
After my second child was born in 1988, I told the universe and any fragments
hanging around, that this was it for me. No more children. I refused to have sex
until I got my tubes tied (both my kids, like yours were home births). I also
told anyone in the universe listening in that might try and sneak in through me
that I wasn't into "miracle babies" that come to women with tubal ligations and
"just have to live because God sent them." (I have seen this trick pulled a
*lot* in the past few decades. Esp. on Old Souls.) I said that I was perfectly
willing and ready to have an abortion if this trick was pulled on me. It is my
strong perception that if you give the universe an *inch* right now and you are
of childbearing age and an Old Soul, you will end up pregnant.
You can't believe the two-year hard-sell job that was done on me by the
fragment that is now my son and a coterie of his warrior cronies to convince me
to have him. The whole time they focused on movies of his *adult* life. Not one
glimpse was given of his childhood, and, naive fool that I was, I never thought
to ask. Let alone ask about the damn pregnancy. Live and learn.
I've had three miscarriages and two pregnancies, and, frankly, I know for
sure I will be a man next lifetime, just as I have been most of my lifetimes.
This female karma, to me at least, if for the birds! :}
I much prefer the male parenting role. The traditional female role is
anathema to me. I can be very affectionate and nurturing, but I have ZERO Server
about me at all, other than some indirect stuff inherited through some server
females in my distant lineage and, of course, the eternal cultural imprint in
most times and places that all females *should* be servers (just as most
cultures imprint all the males with Warrior energy).
I have no patience with fragments who have a passive-aggressive Victim
mentality. I cannot tolerate for a second seeing myself as a "victim of fate,"
and it really brings me down being around fragments who cultivate this vision of
reality. I feel like my skin is crawling being around it. There is so much
darkness and voracious energy sucking going on in their presence. Unfortunately,
my children's father and my daughter have a huge, heavy dose of this kind of
energy, and to a lesser degree my son has as well. I've had to do some
incredible work to get the universe to pull in the resources needed to not get
sucked into perpetuating that attitude, at my expense and to no purpose but
I've spent so many lifetimes as a celibate, itinerant priest, that this
lifetime as a fecund mother has been totally weird. I normally have the figure
of a pre-pubescent girl, and when I turned into this earth-goddess with huge
breasts and belly during my pregnancies, I felt like I was in someone else's
body. Very, very disorienting.
My "all the pain you can gain and still be normal" pregnancies and my 24-hour
first labor and 40-hour second labor were the ultimate Growth experience of "I'm
going to learn all there is to know about pregnancy and labor in one fell
I fought very hard to sidestep the karma of having my belly cut open for a
C-section, very common in women of my age, 34 for first pregnancy, 37 for
second, with long labors in this country. This was my reason for home birth. I
did avoid it C-section, but ended up fulfilling the inevitable karma of gut
slicing by having my gallbladder out in 1991. Some things you just have to go
through, I guess.
I have two kids with ADHD, and that has been an incredibly painful karma for
a Scholar who needs hours and hours of alone down-time a day.
More later, if desired.
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 00:18:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Kate's super long/ Saddam & Hitler (1997-47/178)
Dick Hein wrote:
> 1. In _Cosmic Journey_ Courtney Brown states
(recalling now from
> having read the book almost a year ago) that his contacts with ETs
> through remote viewing (RV) provided him the knowledge that they
> will not interfere with the activities of humans unless asked. They
> will not "rescue" us from our destiny, as we are a free-will species.
> If there is an exception to this, I don't recall seeing it mentioned.
Dick, this is, in a nutshell, my personal take on it. We are free-will. There
will be no unasked for interference. OTOH, though, there are a heck of a lot of
fragments frantically petitioning any ET who will listen for help, so maybe
enough *have* asked for help to warrant the kind of "interference" that Ed is
> 2. According to information from Michael
obtained in group channel
> sessions, this planet has been destroyed by atomic means in some
> parallels. And in others, atomic energy was never developed.
I've heard that, too. Insofar as I can manage to wrap my brain around
parallel universe theory, this makes sense to me.
> | > Anyone who follows the "earth changes"
scene can see how year after
> | > year, the scary predictions just don't come true, and this is true for
> | > many other kinds of stirred-up mass fear scenarios.
> On this parallel...
I agree, and it's why, even though I have trouble understanding parallel
universe theory, I *hope* that it is true and I have a very strong request in to
stay in the parallel that goes in the direction of life and hope and renewal and
> | > So in my response about Saddam and so on,
I was doing all that rather
> | > than being politically correct (which I don't do, thank you).
> | Oh, good. ;> I think PC tends to be pretty superficial, based in
> | "looking good" rather than having a real sense of conscience or empathy
> | for the pain of others. :)
> Ah-yup. :^)
Ah, another enemy of PC. <G>
> Are you saying that human subjectivity has =that= much of an influence
> on channeled information?
I don't know how much. It is interesting to me to brainstorm about
possibilities, though. <G>
Yes, this "I" who makes karmic choices is a very confusing thing. The word
"I" used this way, to me, is like the word "love" in English. Love, one word, is
used to cover a multitide of different kinds of affectionate relationship. In a
like manner, "I" (the "me" who chooses things) is used in newage-speak to cover
a multitude of "I-nesses" or "menesses."
There is the small-self "I" that goes through stages of development in a
given lifetime up to, and hopefully, including its "earned" or "actual" soul
age. Then there is the "me" that is my Essence, who is, supposedly, running the
show (but, one would assume, in consultation with my other affiliations on the
spiritual plane, my cadences, Entity, Cadre and Tao).
I think many times that the "I" that is me, the fragment who is acting out a
specific set of overleaves this lifetime, is about as aware of "choosing" my
life karmas as my big toe is the reasons why it finds itself sometimes stuffed
it into an uncomfortable pair of shoes. The toe knows it is cramped and hurting,
but doesn't experience the how and why of choosing the damn shoes. <G>
This brings up for me another aspect of choice: even in situations where it
is completely obvious, even to our most limited, pea-brain,
negative-poles-of-the-overleaves consciousness that we or *I* did in fact choose
this situation (everything from buying a car that turns out to be a lemon, to
marrying our dream person who turns out to be a jerk, to moving into a wonderful
apartment that has loud, screaming neighbors), did we in fact, consciously,
choose all the ramifications of what could spin out from that choice?
For example: When I start guilt-tripping myself for my choice of my kids'
father, an extremely dysfunctional 3rd level Old Soul Scholar, I have to stop
and ask myself, how "bad," truly, was the decision the 30-year-old me made back
in 1982 to marry this guy? Based on the person I was at the time, and my then
limited knowledge and education, and my limited idea of the "ideal" man (he
won't beat me like my dad or scream at me, he will value education, be
cosmopolitan, be into world saving and very spiritual), my ex met all my
criteria in spades. Unfortunately, I wasn't omnicient, and as I "chose" that
relationship, I had no idea, whatsoever, of the damage that an Old Soul in
victim consciousness who chooses to live constantly in passive-aggressive mode
could do. At that time, I was only thoroughly versed in the damage that
fragments bent on aggressive-aggressive mode (violence) could do.
And my ex played out as a pretty good choice up to and until the birth of our
second child. After that, his ability to cope was completely overtaxed, and he
was alternating between barely treading water as a parent and often drowning.
How could my 30-year-old self have seen that coming? No way it could,
According to the Michael Teachings, of course, my Instinctive Center was
programmed to "recognize" this fragment and launch me on this campaign of pain I
called a marriage.
But as for my fragment-consciousness self, when I married my ex, I had no
idea that he was clinically depressed and had been most all his life, that he
had ADD, and that he is not a person who seems to respond to virtually any
healing modality for these and other problems he has (like low self-esteem and
self-confidence) that currently exists on the planet (from counseling to
communication training, to job skills training, to homeopathy, acupuncture,
massage, chiropracty, herbs, etc., etc.). One might ultimately conclude, as I
did, that he has a pre-programmed Instinctual Center "choice" to be likely to be
so very emotionally damaged early on this incarnation (in very early childhood)
that no matter what the later adult interventions, he would remain terribly
wounded. And dysfunctional as a result in all his relationhips. (The same was
true with my ET, btw, who came from an incest family.)
Once this realization was arrived at, at that point there was a new choice
for me: sign on for a third seven-year contract with him for continuing our
marriage monad, or cut the cords. I chose the latter, because I am in Growth and
living with a Martyr tears me to shreds.
But did I consciously "choose" the pain of that marriage, the eternal
frustration of rolling the same rock up the same hill for almost 13 yaars of
living with him was for me? (The corrolary of a "yes" to this statement is that
I "deserved" this pain for being stupid.) The compassionate and logical answer,
for me is: How could I have? How or why would anyone (at a fragment level) have
the imagination, at the beginning of almost any relationship (unless it is
something very, very obvious, like a brutal alcoholic) as to how far and in what
direction it might spin off? Especially when you are adding a complete unknown
quantity to the equation like children?
IM experience, we are different people, different parts of us shine forth, in
each relationship we are in. So a family can very quickly get incredibly
complex. And therefore often unpredictable (though, of course, families do seek
to entrench members in predictable "roles" or assigned ways of being). Any group
situation can do that.
IMO, even if you are omnicient, as the Diety (however you see that)
supposedly is, since humans have free-will, there is no way to make exact
predictions of group outcomes. You can only deal in probabilities, which are
What I've come to believe is true, and this is my perception of what the
Michael Teachings present about karma (and as such may not agree with others'
perception): is that each of us has chosen particular themes. We haven't mapped
out specifics like a particular miscarriage, or that a specific friend will dump
us on a specific day in a particular way. Or that we will marry a One and Only
True Love. My understanding is that situations and even people can be quite
fungible in the Theme-fulfillment department.
But coming back to coldness vs. compassion. I think that people who have no
empathy to give (for whatever reason, naturally cold or just burned out) will
use any excuse to push another away. And the old, "you chose it" (so fry in hell
and leave me out of it, jerk) sentimentalilty is just an excuse to "feel good"
about adding insult to the injury a human in pain next to us is suffering.
Personally, I try to avoid like the plague these days people who are what I
call "empty buckets." They batter you and call it being "helpful." Most of my
blood relations are like that and many of the people over the years I have
called "friends." Unfortunately, I had a theme of attracting people like that.
When I finally woke up enough to see that, in the midst of my 4th monad, I had
more room to consciously "choose" not to do that schtick anymore.
Another issue of choice: the more experience and wisdom we gain in life, the
more choices that open up to us, the more freedom.
I think humans have two competing drives, the need for
affiliation/relationship and the need for freedom, to "do our own thing." As
these two opposite and often each-other-extinuishing drives battle it out, we
are constantly trying to influence (aka manipulate or "educate" <G>) other
people to assist us in achieving our desires. Just as others are always trying
to get us to go along with their agendas. It is a system that guarantees that we
all keep constantly interacting, garnering karma and learning new stuff. <G>