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THE POSTS: Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:45:25 -0600 I just wanted to say howdy to this group of folks - I'm a Michael channel, living in Texas, known to some of you, not to others. Have just started reading these posts, and am very much enjoying the information and exchange. Hope to be able to contribute something interesting from time to time myself. For those who are interested, I'm an old king, married to my ET, who is an old warrior. all the best, Caris Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:59:56 -0800 Hello, all. I have been on the list for only a short while, but am very interested in learning more than I can find on the Web and in books. What's the best way to find a Michael channel to consult with in the SF Bay Area? Many thanks! Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:15:13 -0600 Hi Caris, Welcome, welcome. So glad you're here. But you knew I'd say that didn't you? Now that you're here I'll have to behave myself won't I? Shucks! Love and Laughter :-)) Jeanne Holley Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:16:29 -0600 Welcome Caris. Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 02:34:53 EST Just curious if anyone else saw NBC's Dateline last night. There was a segment on a New Age channeler who calls himself Gabriel of Sedona. He claims to have been St.Francis, Martin Luther, Alexander the Great, and George Washington in past lives, among others, and also boasts of many alien past existences. In a nutshell, he has organized a "community" based on his Aquarian concepts. Of course, being a member of the collective entails deeming all your financial assets to the community. Not to mention subtle hints of multiple sex partners, or using his parlance, "spiritual couplings." The icing on the cake were his channelings of an alien entity. Needless to say, this growing community in Sedona has all the earmarks of attaining cult status. It's just another frightening example of New Age doctrines stripping away the one element of our being that truly exemplifies why we are so unique - our individuality. Such disturbing stories makes me reflect back to the previous posts concerning the idea of building a "Michael community." As I've said before, I think it's a dangerous concept for the many reasons that this television program so chillingly outlined. Our civilization is not yet ready to adopt such a lifestyle. I don't think our collective spiritual consciousness can embrace such cooperation without certain individuals using it as a vehicle of power and despotism. People, there is nothing wrong with seeking the wisdom of others and reflecting on their insights, but only YOU can know the truth about yourself. Look within for your answers, and don't become the cattle of exploitive New Age prophets and their brain-washed followers. You are your own universe. Dave Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:47:21 EST I saw the Dateline last night too, and that guy seems like such an obvious fraud. I think he is the only one evolved enough to get multiple sex partners! It amazes me that there are people who actually buy into this guy. IS this another younger soul Priest like David Koresh? I've heard wonderful things about Sedona, but the Dateline report made it seem like a real mecca for con artists. This is the kind of thing that gives channeling a bad name! Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:44:40 -0800 What has made the Michael Teachings so easy for me to listen to and = understand is the fact that in all the readings the entity Michael has = stated over and over again..... We are NOT the path. There is no Right = or Wrong, there is just CHOICE!!!! We are not the path to = enlightenment. Look inside yourselves and you will find the answers. = Question and validate!!!!! I too saw parts of the show last night but I get to agitated inside to = watch for very long. The minute they start talking about "god" and this = is what "I've" (notice the all inclusive I here) been told and YOU must = do this in order to obtain "whatever it is they are preaching" I tune = out. This is the rantings of another power hungry human. What is hard = for me to deal with is that these folks REALLY believe........sigh. I = see these and think... oh my what lovely karma they are brewing....<s> Hugs (cause they help) Date: 25 Feb 1998 09:22:37 -0700 Hi everyone.... De-lurking for a moment... I saw Dateline as well... I found that guy so cliche it was almost laughable! He had a smarmy look in his eyes, silly new age clothes, his Amazing list of past lives, the ridiculous voice of the alien he channeled, the fact that he was a failed musician (like Koresh), his quote that "sperm injection "heals" women", the whole multiple sex partners idea, but only with his blessing!, it was just horrible! Like a bad movie on new age cults. I have a bumpersticker on my car that says "You're all Sheep".... these people are definitely all sheep! He does give a bad name to Channelling and legitimate spirituality! Ok... off my soapbox, thanks for listening.. has anyone asked Michael about this guy? Peace Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:32:12 -0800 FWIW, part of the reason the idea of community was/is/has been discussed is because in early unpublished transcripts from the original Michael group, Michael again and again was encouraging the formation of a community lifestyle as a way of supporting one another on the spiritual path and also being able to devote more time and energy to spiritual study and meditation and the teachings. Michael felt it unnecessary for so many of us to have to put so much of our energy into each creating our own homes and livlihoods which takes so much time and energy. Also Michael felt the masks or different outer personas necessary to succeed in the outer world were holding people back from growing more spiritually. A community need not be a cult. It need not be large either. It could be a small group or gathering sharing expenses by sharing land or a home. However, in practice I agree that we seem to have a way to go and I'm not sure how feasible it is right now. I don't see it as stifling individuality, rather as a way to give us more time to be and create, study and share like values. But I think it needs a lot of communication beforehand and agreement on basic guidelines so that the arrangements would be fair and/ or it would need to develop around a group that had already built some trust and understanding together. If/when this is possible, I think we are just in the early stages of discussion. As we've seen through this list, a lot of us may be "Michael students" but have very different values or want to make very different choices in our life styles. With this said, I will also say that right now, I would probably not feel at ease to be part of a community either, although potentially I see how it could be supportive and freeing, a lot of prep work in the way of agreements, communication, guidelines would need to be done to bring that idealism into a working form. In regards to the early transcripts I mentioned, these have been passed about privately among students. Questions of copyright and who owns these or can publish them are controversial and people have been threatened with lawsuits and such for infringing on any standing copyrights. In other words, right now it seems to be sort of a mess as far as making the transcripts available in any public way, although there are people who are trying to do this. Best to all, Brin Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:00:56 -0600 Jennifer Slatten wrote:
----snip----
Multiple sex? I must confess I've had that a few times. Why just last year I had sex twice in the same year, and once in 1994, I had it three times. Goodness. John Macchietto P.S. Sorry, I just couldn't resist an attempt at humor. Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:30:00 -0600 John, Glad you 'fessed up. Will you remember all of us when you're that "Famous Michael Author and Authority" on Multiple Sex. (More Humor) Love and Giggles :-)) Jeanne Holley Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:44:56 PST Hi all, I have been subscribing, reading, but not participating in conversations as yet. What do you expect from an INTJ, anyway? I came here looking for information that resonated within, and I've found a great deal that has been useful. Now I have a question and I hope someone out there will be able to offer some insight. This is a little long, so please bear with me. I have a friend in Charleston, SC that has been plagued with ill health all her life ... everything from "female problems" to back injuries to pinched nerves. She is a truly wonderful woman, but for some reason has chosen a body destined to give her pain all her life. I can only tell you how much I trust her and how great a friend she has been by telling you that she was the person I chose to be present during my son's birth. She recently had surgery to remove a tumor on her spine. The tumor is benign, however, since the surgery, she has not been able to walk and has been in the rehab wing of a hospital for two weeks now. I am going to visit her this weekend (2/28). I have done a few healings (nothing dramatic, bust up a kidney stone so that surgery is not necessary, or slow down heart degeneration - generally for people very close to me. However, in the last couple of years, I find that unless I am asked, I do not feel comfortable using this gift. I may ask that a person find peace, but seldom do I ask for anything specific ... I now feel that I may be altering someone's chosen path, unless they have requested that I do so. I know personally how powerful such a request can be. Here's the question: I know that my friend will not ask for anything more than my presence. I am uncomfortable with directing any energies specifically to heal her to help her walk again, but I am equally uncomfortable knowing that she may be in a wheelchair for the rest of her life (not that she could not have a fulfilled life in a wheelchair, if she chose that destiny). I am really on the fence with this one. What would you do? Please note that I am not afraid of trying to heal her and then not seeing any results ... I always accept whatever happens. I just can't decide whether to be compassionate in this human reality, or be compassionate on the soul plane and let her pick her own course. Egad, this should be a no-brainer, but I really could use some responses. Thanks for listening. Gina (Mnemosyne) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 01:36:46 -0800 You can ask permission of her on the astral.(§1) (§) For references email me privately. Cheers, Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:20:35 -0400 (EDT) Hello everybody! Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:41:49 +0100 Dave wrote:
> Such disturbing stories makes me reflect back to the previous posts concerning
In a way I very much agree with you, it seems that people are very easily taken in by "Charismatic leaders", but I think that has very little to do with true community. In a way this list is an expression of community, for example. If a group of like-minded Michael students were to decide to live and/or work together to promote the spiritual growth of all of them, that too would be community, and IMHO not any more dangerous as such than this list is. As I said though, in a general way I agree with you... however I feel that it's not "community" that's dangerous, but "leaders". As you said, in the end each of us has to find the truth within, and no one can give it to us. (well, you said something like that anyway) Peace, Katherine Doversberger Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:36:57 -0600 Hi Kenneth, Were you trying to tell me something or just delete me? :-)) I got my message twice and your address, but no message from you. You can delete me, it's okay, I'll just pop up somewhere else as a twig waving in the wind (as Emily says). Love and Raucous Laughter :-)))))) Jeanne Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:54:22 +0000
> What do you expect from an INTJ, anyway?
Hmm, another INTJ. You aren't just a tad bit INDEPENDENT are you? What's your role?
> Here's the question: I know that my friend will not ask for anything
Well, you just answered your own question, didn't you? This is not for you to decide. It is your friend's choice, and she may very well need to experience what she is going through for her own evolution. Why not let her make the choice, which it sounds like she already has, and you just be her friend.
> Gina (Mnemosyne)
The Goddess of Memory? Would you like to explain? (Of course, that's your choice) John Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:54:51 -0800 Dave, Subject: Re: Dateline cults Isn't it a strong possibility that these people are good people serving a "corrupt master" in this lifetime? Jeanne Holley Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:29:31 -0800 Thank you Brin for your comments. Someone correct me if I am wrong but I
believe JP commented on Michael communities. Two local non Michael channelers
that I used to visit for channeling sessions encouraged communities also. I
really appreciate the idea of people living in a community to cut down on the
energy we expend so that each of us can have our own house. I feel my time is
wasted spending five days a week at work. However, this brings up a big issue
for me. I don't know if I like people enough to live with a lot of them! What if
they like noisy music and I like peace and quiet? There are people I like but it
seems inconceivable that I could find a group of them to live with that I could
feel comfortable with. For sure, I would like to be around people who are
spiritually inclined. Are there enough people like that in a given area? If so
how do you find them? I probably wouldn't consider living in a community unless
the economy got so bad nothing else worked. Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:36:01 -0800 On that dateline show when they revealed that Gabriel felt:
> injection "heals" women", the whole multiple sex partners idea, but only with ----snip----
I couldn't believe it! How come I didn't think of that bogus line when I
was in high school? Just kidding. It seems like another idea used to manipulate
people. Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:29:58 +0000
> I saw that Dateline thing. I had to stop and remind myself that for Gabriel
Chances of you seeing any kind of comprehensive overview of channeling on network television is pretty slim. The networks aren't in the business of providing quality television. They are in the business of providing a medium through which to sell advertising. There is, however, an excellent program on PBS called "Thinking Allowed" that provides this type of programming. I am fortunate to catch it by accident a couple of times a year (I'm not much of a TV watcher). I found an excellent video tape at the library with four half hour segments from this program called "Channels and Channeling." I also found another with Michael Harner talking about Shamanism. I remember finding a website once with a complete list of previous programs, many available on video, and also a list of dates and times of upcoming broadcasts. Go to Yahoo, type in PBS, and you will probably find the site. John Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:29:58 +0000 I did some research on this about ten years ago, and found there were some small communities actually doing a pretty good job of enjoying the benefits of community while staying out of each others hair. Harbin Hot Springs (if I remember the name correctly) in California seemed to be doing well. There was also a community in Goldendale, Washington that was just starting and showed promise. These communities weren't dedicated to any specific spiritual ideology, but seemed more interested in providing a place for people to exercise the freedom to find their own way. Harbin Hot Springs was hosting seminars and events on a variety of topics when I was doing my research. It would be interesting to see where they are at ten years later. The community in Goldendale was started by someone who bought a big chunk of land and was selling five acre lots to people who applied to become members of the community. That may sound somewhat elitist, but I feel is probably necessary in this type of undertaking. I visited them, and was very impressed with what they were doing. They had a community library, equipment for road maintenance and firefighting, and had just finished a small community center for meetings, spiritual events, etc. I also had a book that was new at the time (lost it in a house fire), that explored this type of living. I believe it was called (Co-Dependent Housing), and was based on an experiment in Europe (Scandanavia?) John Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:48:45 +0000 Replying to my own post. They say it's okay to talk to yourself as long as you don't answer back. Guess I failed that one. Oh, well... The Thinking Allowed site is at: http://www.thinking-allowed.com Scrolled through a list of videos and saw some excellent stuff. I know Jon Klimo has been mentioned here several times in regards to learning to channel. He has a video in the series.
> There is, however, an excellent program on PBS called "Thinking
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:50:53 -0600 John, Thanks for the Site address. And by the way, regarding answering your own remarks, my Father used to say "I can't think of a more intelligent person I'd rather converse with." Love and Laughter :-)) Jeanne Holley Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:11:13 -0800
<snip>
I answer myself back all the time. It does add a certain confusion when I
try to figure out who had the last word... Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:14:19 +0000 Um, here I am talking to myself again. Just put my name in big block letters above the door to one of those rubber rooms...
> I did some research on this about ten years ago, and found there were
Harbin Hot Springs is owned by Heart Consciousness Church. Anything with "church" in the names spells "dogma" to me. Count me out. For the curious, their web site is at: http://www.harbin.org/ The community in Goldendale is called Ponderosa Village. Their site is at: http://www.gorge.net/business/ponderosa/ They were difficult to find, since I couldn't remember the name. While looking for them I found a directory of communities at: http://www.ic.org/ic/fic/cmag/86/Reach86.html John Rogers Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:14:47 -0800 <sigh> Now really, we're all already in communities you know, unless you live out in the boonies. Why don't we all go out and meet our neighbors? If we're really all spiritual beings on human paths, they aren't that much different from us then, are they? Maybe I should take my own advice. :^) Love (cuz my heart's big enough for everyone to fit), Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:55:21 -0800
> .... I really appreciate the idea of people living in a
Mike, yes. What can I say? My guess is there are a lot of people who feel the same as well and probably more of us than we realize who might have somewhat similar preferences. Having places of peace and beauty would be a necessity. Right now my whole home is like that....and sort of a sanctuary. Michael chided people for feeling that they would lose too much in coming together and spoke often of the gains on many levels. It would clearly (or to me) take a different level of communication and trust as well as agreements about style and content. I think the time will come. All the cult excesses are just things to learn from and avoid. I doubt any of us would want such things. And yet the tendencies to find comfort in some authority giving guidance and so on is more insidious than we would probably all want to admit or maybe even realize. Since childhood we've been raised to listen to an authority over our own inner senses. But that gets off on a whole different topic as Dave was expressing earlier. I don't think living together has to fall into those traps. Although all of that would have to be worked out beforehand, not just hoping it would come together in a conscious way and then finding out later....yikes! John, I've caught Thinking Allowed too and often enjoyed it. They have mailing lists on related subjects. Jeffrey Mishlove who does the interviews and creates the show has an interesting story about how he got started and the role intuition has played in his life. So he has mailing lists on intuition and such. Dick, thanks for the kind words. I sort of miss your quotes being part of your letters. I know there was all kinds of discussion about it. I was caught up in some other things at the time and didn't follow all that went on completely. What if you put your quotes at the bottom of your letters like footnotes. Then people can read them and refresh their memory or pass if they're not interested. Or was it a length issue? Best to all, Brin Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 03:13:32 -0500 Hello Lady Jeanne, Yesterday was a really weird day for me. I was pushing wrong key/button sequences on my computer all day long. I suspect it being the eve of an important eclipse contributed to some weird energies I was experiencing. How could I possibly delete such beautiful laughter. Peace to ya'. Jeanne Holley wrote:
> Hi Kenneth,
-- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 01:36:40 -0800 Hi Brin, As usual from you, a thoughtful post. I do have a couple of comments -
| From: Brin
They also briefly touched on this in _Messages_.(§1)
| In regards to the early transcripts I mentioned, these have been passed
This is unfortunate.
| although there are people who are trying to do this.
I wish them well. (§) For references email me privately. Cheers, Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 01:36:50 -0800
| Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:20:35 -0400 (EDT)
That is, IMO, a more reasonable explanation than what I provided in my response. Note that Brin also pointed this out in her reply to my post. I don't recall, however, seeing anything about the caste system in any of the early Yarbro books. Can you provide a page number? Cheers, Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:11:06 -0600
> From: Dick Hein
Dick, In the newest edition of MFM, Chapter 10, Page 186 the discussion on Hinduism starts. Jeanne Holley Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:31:02 -0500 Is there an archive (on-line or otherwise) of transcripts from early/or ongoing channeled sessions? I heard rumors that Quinn's group has been thinking of starting a website for some time...and read that there used to be something called the Michael Messenger. What other sources of channeled transcripts exist? Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:20:11 -0600 About a year ago a friend and Michael student asked Michael the following question and they gave this response. Since we just had our first really wonderful T&L storm last night, I was reminded of this and wanted to share it with y'all, since I thought it might be of general interest. Q: Is there some underlying reason why I feel compelled to run out and stand in thunderstorms? M: There is a particular energy level manifestation that happens during thunderstorms that many are aware of, and you certainly are so aware. The greater physical energy, which exists much as the energy of a body, if you will, is affected by these storms which might be equated to in some ways an ache, in other ways a sharp tinge, and in other ways a cleansing of the general frequencies in an area. Those who reside in an area where storms are manifesting can be acutely aware of the changing frequencies and wish, in their own way, to participate. Because you are all aware of that which you come from and are indelibly a part of (the Tao, or All That Is, or The Great Awareness), there is always a seeking to recombine with this energy on a higher level than which you live day to day. This desire to recombine comes from the basic recognition(s) you feel all the time, and when opportunity presents itself with the nearness of heightened energy afforded by a thunderstorm the draw can be irresistable. Some choose poor places to do this from and are killed by a lightning strike. Most are simply energized and cleansed, along with the surrounding terrain. So you recognize this energy in a physical AND a psychic way. No surprize. Many do this. You are in fine company. Michael Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:38:59 -0600 Caris: Would this explain why (even though I've been through several tornadoes) I am torn everytime there is severe weather in the area. I do not Want A Storm or a Tornado ( I know firsthand the destruction they create) and yet I seem to get excited about it. Have always felt that this was a real flaw in my character. Love and Ready To Face The Truth Jeanne Holley Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:39:08 -0800
| From: Brin
I think it was more that (some) people felt I was overdoing it. To try to alleviate the discomfort, I changed to a process whereby I put footnote indicators in the posts, then supply the relevant references via email. Cheers, Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:40:48 -0800 Dick, Well, I just wanted to put my two cents in. Take Care, Namaste to All Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:30:32 -0800 Hi Tracy, Regarding archives of early Michael transcripts....As far as I know none really exist. But I do know there are people who would like to create a complete archive. They've run into issues of ownership and copyright. Best Brin Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:03:48 PST
> Scrolled through a list of videos and saw some excellent stuff. I
Jon wrote the forward to Shepherd's book 'Journey of your Soul'... and a wonderful forward it is. (and a wonderful book). I recall when Shepherd was looking for ideas as to who to get to write a forward, and Klimo was my first choice and suggestion, and it worked out very well. A new revised edition of "Channeling" by Klimo is due out anyday now... well worth picking up and giving to your favorite skeptic overleaved person. Amazon.com had it listed last time I looked (a few weeks ago..) Love, Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:35:35 -0600 I like my privacy and after spending time as an entertainer in a retirement community some years ago and having my office in a State Veteran's Nursing Home, I'm afraid a "Community" with specific, organized things to do would not be for me. However, if you folks organize one someday, I'd love to come for a visit. Love and Laughter :-)) Jeanne Holley Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:25:54 +0000
> Seth
Another scholar in observation maybe? John Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:50:15 -0800 Gina, Barbara Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:56:41 -0800 Building "community" doesn't necessarily mean cutting ourselves off from the
rest of the world. For example, a bunch of us travel together and share retreats
together. During those times we live close together for a period of time and the
experience is awesomely wonderful! Barbara Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:03:41 -0800 The Findhorn community in Scotland is one that many have heard of (http://www.gaia.org/findhorn/). Some friends who have been there were deeply impressed. Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:15:34 -0800 Hi all! After taking all the quizzes, it appears that I am an Old Priest(ess), sixth level. Does that sound right? Vivien Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:16:49 -0800 I suppose that's a nice way of calling me an "old crone"!:) Vivien Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 02:27:50 EST yes, yes me too -- I of course am not begging for destruction and death, but for some reason I am fascinated by tornadoes and dream about them all the time. I, um, crave them or something. (no silly freudian comments please) My brain just seems to lose it when I try to comprehend them. And I have a wonderful time and become very excited at the prospect of tornadic activity. This is horrible, I know, but I am glad that at least someone out there feels the same way! ----------- kris Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:46:32 +0800 At 06:46 AM 2/23/98 -0000, Joya Pope wrote:
> JJ
Funny you brought up that bit regarding Sagitarrius. My knowledge of astrology is very limited so I don't know of this characteristic of Sagitarrius to "roam". :-) Well, at least my rising sign is Sagitarrius.
> TO answer a couple questions in your post, I find that:
If the 4 Transcendental Souls reported in the early books of Michael (by Yabro), I would say they make significant changes indeed. 2 of them even founded their own religion, or at least their followers did the actual "founding". (Muhammed and Zoroaster) While we are on this subject of "high-level souls", I wonder if Baha'ullah (sp?) is one of these Transcendental or Infinite Soul? From some of the followers of Baha'i I came across years ago, they spoke very highly of him. When I mentioned to them about this reference to Infinite Soul, they said that Baha'ullah must be one of them. Would it be possible to ask Michael for validation? Regards. Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 04:03:53 -0500 Barbara Taylor wrote:
> The Findhorn community in Scotland is one that many have heard of
I met Peter Caddy, one of the Findhorn founders, back when I was living and working at the Koinonia Foundation near Baltimore, MD. He's deceased now, I think. He taught me how to make an omelette. He seemed very grounded in a practical and spiritual reality. No ego trips as far as we could detect. An interesting gentleman and easy to be around. Thanks Barbara for the URL of their website. I'll check it out. BTW: Living in an intentional community does not escape you from human relations challenges, or the challenges of every day living. People happened to each other there just like in the so-called real world. There's food to grow and prepare, there's water pumps to be fixed, there's wall sconces to be installed, there's oil burners to be fixed, there's a print-shop cutter motor to be overhauled, there's dishes to be washed, there's furniture to be waxed and dusted, there's a piano to be tuned, and all kinds of everyday "stuff" to be contended with; including the human stuff of the community members. It was amazing to me that so many loving and well-intentioned people just do not know how to keep a house clean and uncluttered. It was a great experience. But I'd think twice before living like that again unless I knew that each person was well-grounded in social non-intrusion. -- Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:03:43 EST Previously I said:
> transcendental souls tend to be pretty special, pretty noticeable, but
Then JJ Tan asks:
<< If the 4 Transcendental Souls reported in the early books of Michael (by
<< While we are on this subject of "high-level souls", I wonder if Baha'ullah
From my experience there are many more than 4 transcendental souls. Muhammed and Zoroaster among them, and most likely the wonderful founder of Bahai, Baha'ullah. But I'd like to validate that with a photo. Does anyone have a photo of Baha'ullah they could scan and send me-or the group?? OOtherwise, I will scan the library! It seems to me a couple months ago Barbara Taylor posted a list of the only 20 people she thought were Old 7. (Is this really possible? Did I dream this in my car accident haze??) Some of them, like Meher Baba, were transcendental to my Michael eyes; and one, namely Patrick Stewart, late mature tho very kingly. Blessings all around, Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:35:09 EST Mike said:
However, this brings up a big issue for me. I don't know if I like people
When I think of what I put up with in the 70's living with a group of politicized feminist women in Venice Beach Calif. in the middle of many more similar group houses, I laugh and shudder. It made me grow, shift, change, drop old patterns and sometimes I felt supported-not always. I love the immense quiet of my house and life now. And I don't hear anyone's music. In Asia, Vietnam most gorgeously, it is amazing and lovely how people live together in groups and enjoy yet give space to each other. When poor, there is not a choice. In Hanoi's Ancienne Quartier where we stayed for a couple weeks, there were 540 people per acre, of of the densest populations in the world. (Sometime swe laugh, imagining 1620 people on our 3 acres!) You can't avoid community then. In Saigon the family we stayed with was richer, but still totally enjoyed extended family/community, hanging out with each other in many combinations all the time. The people we met all had individuality and vitality, they were not automotans, but they had a way of enjoying groups, each other, that was delightful to participate in. Our Western individualism and prickliness are so different than this Eastern surrender to group harmony (and enjoyment of group). We figured iif it weren't for ideals about group harmony, Saigon - which has the most bizarre way of dealing with zillions of wheeled vehicles and no traffic signs or signals - would have minimum 25 times more accidents every day. Latin America seems to work on this group energy too. And Europe to a greater extent than here. And certainly Africa. I think the US might be one of the most lonely, singular places on the planet--but I am glad I don't have to listen to Music all the time. I suppose as the world continues to crowd up we will be living more in community. Ah mature soul times. My morning ramble.......Back to work, Joya! Subject: Re: Hindu reference in MFM (1998-08/908)
| From: Jeanne Holley
Thanks for the information. I was aware of the new book but assumed it was just a reprint containing no new material. So I went down to the book store to check, planning to get the new edition. When I looked, I recognized parts around the Hinduism material, so decided to double-check my old copy (should have brought it along). When I did, I found the same material on the same page! So the new-format book is just a reprint containing no new material. As to why I missed the information? Don't know; I'm sure I read it the first couple of times through the book, which was 5 years ago. But I've been over the whole book so many times since, looking for particular passages, that for some reason I just didn't see the part about the Hindu caste system. Cheers, Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:42:23 -0800
| From: Caris
Indeed it was; thanks for posting. Cheers, Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:38:25 -0800
| From: Barbara Taylor
We can help by sending healing energy.
| You can hold a sacred space to help her find her right path, but you
One needn't impose one's will in order to help another heal; all that is needed is the proper intent and the other person's permission. Cheers, Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:38:31 -0800
| From: Barbara Taylor
I like this definition. Cheers, Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:06:34 -0800 Dave remarks:
Our civilization is not yet ready to adopt such a
In fact, there are many communities that do manage to grow and prosper within the current society; however, it is my experience that they keep to themselves and maintain a low profile.
People, there is nothing wrong with seeking the wisdom of others and
Yes! It is indeed important to remember that one must verify for oneself. It is incumbant upon each of us to take what fits, what "rings true" and leave the rest. Kath Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:19:05 -0800 Once upon a time, I was standing at a psychic fair, watching "from the wings". One of the floor monitors came a stood right next to me for a time and then remarked "Did you know that you have healing cords out to about a quarter of the people in this room?" (about 250 people) Now, I've always known that healing energies were running through me, but I had never really paid much attention to them. It interested me that she could "see" this healing activity commencing. I told her I was somewhat aware but not very aware that I was healing some of the people in the room. She asked me if I'd ever considered that people made life choices and set up circumstances so that they could learn from those circumstances. She suggested to me that, by healing without permission, I may be robbing some of those people of lessons they had suffered to set up for themselves. I felt downright nauseous -- in part, because this information rang true, and in part because it had never occurred to me that states of dis-ease were opportunities to learn and grow. Since that time, I have become much more aware of this "impulse to heal" and I try very hard to ask permission before I 'put out fires'. The ethical thing to do, if possible, is to ask permission to attempt a healing. Honor the answer. My two cents, Kath Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:46:40 -0800 On learning, growing and healing. In school we go through different grades and are taught different lessons. As we learn lessons we progress through different grades. (Some lessons we may pick up later or earlier than our overall grade may be focusing on.) Some of us may see life as being similar to a school room where we are all learning different lessons at different times. When a lesson comes up, we can choose to ignore it and then it usually comes up again and again in different ways until we get it and go on. In some ways, healing isn't much different. Pain can be the discomfort of not having some lesson clear and it is encouraging us to understand something new, to make changes, or that something in some way is out of harmony. How much of that is within someone's personal control could probably inspire a whole debate on its own. Suffice it to say that many things are, some things may require world-wide changes before they improve, like a lot of the pollution in our air, water and food right now. Within those systems,there are still many choices each of us can make. Often when someone is hurting, it comes from not knowing another way. Healing can come from finding out there is another way and making new choices. Healing can come from love. From warmth. From loving attention or loving touch. If someone is thirsty and I have water, I can offer them some. I can't drink it for them. But if I don't offer the water to begin with, they may not get to drink. I'm not required to offer any, but if I see someone is thirsty or suffering in some way, I can make an offer. Or if someone asks for water and I have some, I can give it to them or show them where to find it or how to get water for themselves. And the thirst can be quenched, the pain of the thirst, the disharmony caused by lack of water in the body would go away. And that is healing. So perhaps there are many ways we can offer healing to one another. We can learn from systems that have gone before us. Recently we were talking a bit about some of the systems in India, like Hinduism, which has known and accepted reincarnation for a long time. Some of what happened there and other places where Buddhism has been strong too, is that people might see someone drowning and not do anything perhaps because they know nothing really dies, or because they feel someone's karma has caused it, or because the person can pull themself out too. One can also offer a hand. The other person still has to be the one to ultimately climb out. But the hole might be too deep for them to get out of alone. Sometimes we don't have a hand to offer. Or we don't know what someone needs. But sometimes we are in a position where we can share information or comfort or whatever might be called for and we are willing to do so. And there can be healing. Often both are uplifted. On the other hand, sometimes there is well meaning intervention that ends up making things worse for someone or for all. So wisdom is needed to know what is being asked for and what might help and whether you are in a position to offer or respond to someone's request. Sometimes someone can pull us in and we end up drowning too. So it's good to be clear about our own position and abilities. And we probably discover more about all of this by making every "mistake" imaginable of too much, too little, and everything in between, going over any or all seemingly sensible boundaries to test them. Many times others have given me water and I have been so glad they were there. And there have been times I've been able to offer water and been willing to do so. There have been many times where something just has to play out. Since we know ultimately we are as if part of one body, if your foot hurts, don't you care for it? Or do you let it bleed, if it is cut, without tending to it? On some level that plays into this too. Sometimes it is no different than caring for our own being, because ultimately that is true. It is our own wisdom, knowing and discernment in a situation that let's us know the differences. And each situation refines our ability to see. Some common guidelines I'll pass on for consideration. You can wait until you're asked. That can often be a good guide of what is needed and when. Then you can decide whether you are able or would like to give what is being asked for. Often people ask when they are ready for learning, growing, making a change, or healing. You can offer. Without forcing anything on anyone, you can let the final choice be their own. Food for thought. Use anything that is useful and let the winds of forgetting scatter the rest. :) Best to all, Brin Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:04:34 -0800 Hi all, Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:50:34 -0600 Joya wrote:
> When I think of what I put up with in the 70's living with a group of
I hear what you are saying loud and clear. Try a Girl's Club in Chicago with 120 other young women.
> I think the US might be one of the most lonely, singular places on the
When I first examined my reasons for picking the US for this lifetime I thought it was because there was so much more opportunity for real choices, but now in my dotage, I agree that it is really a very lonely place and sometimes the loneliness seems to outweigh the advantages. However, having been here for at least three lives, I don't think I could pick anyplace else at this time in my growth. I love my privacy but in total contradiction to that, I get very lonely. Especially since my significant other doesn't want to hear anything about reincarnation, Michael Teachings or anything else that would take him out of his comfort zone. Oh well.
> I suppose as the world continues to crowd up we will be living more in
Thanks for the "Food For Thought" Joya. Jeanne Holley Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 08:07:47 -0800 Joya, Barbara Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 08:35:44 -0800 Kath and Dick, Barbara Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:15:43 EST
<< I just can't decide whether to be compassionate in this human reality, or be
What I would do is ask permission to offer specific healing energies. If she says yes and then nothing happens, it may be her karma. I don't think that there's ever any harm in offering healing energies, and I don't think that we are capable of subverting someone else's path by doing so. When love is the intention, the results are consistent with love. All the best, Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:10:59 -0500 Barbara Taylor wrote:
> [clipped]
Abso-loving-lutely! Having participated in many healing/prayer/meditation circles (plus being an old scholar) I have noticed on several of these occasions that the healing energy was flat outright rejected. Sometimes it was because the subject wanted to work on healing himself. Some times it was because the subject's astral body couldn't handle the emotional overload. On another occasion the subject wanted the attention of being the subject of the healing circle, but didn't want to be healed because then she would not get the attention she wanted. This last subject was really interesting because it was done in person, and the elderly stooped over lady was, although she looked to be in really bad shape, was really very very strong. She was in a wheel chair, she had a patch on one eye, and one arm was in a sling. But geez was she ever a powerhouse of psychic energy. I myself have had to ask people not to pray for my wellness, because what they were doing was giving energy to the non-well state instead of the well state. They were very well intentioned, but not at all knowledgeable about energy management. Regarding Metaphysical Semantics: To say that someone needs healing contributes to their being in a state of needing healing. To say that you or your group want to heal someone puts yourself(ves) in a state of "wanting = not having" the ability to contribute to a healing process. At bottom health and well-being are natural states of being for any life form. If health and well being are not existing, then all that need to be done is to remove the obstacles to the desired state of health and well being. Healing will take place automatically and organically. Farmers don't grow food, nature grows food. The farmers just prepare the ground. -- Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:27:30 -0600 Kenneth wrote:
<Snipped>
What you are saying, I think, is that we do not address the dis-ease, but see the glowing health of the entire being. Is that correct? Love and Healthy Laughter :-)) Jeanne Holley Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:59:30 -0500 Correcto-mundo, Lady Jeanne -- Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:11:27 EST When I was thinking about moving from New York in 1995, I bought the "Communities Directory," put out by Communities magazine. Most of the listings were for communities still in the idea or planning stages; there is little yet happening out there, and nothing called to me, although I think that it is an idea whose time has come, and I think we'll be seeing a lot more happening, a more mature version of the trend of the late 60s & early 70s. Co-housing is catching on, and my friend Lisa Abend lived in one community in Massachusetts for a while. It seems like it could provide a good blend of privacy and community. These communities are similar to condo complexes with more extensive common areas and activities, where some meals are shared, childcare may be provided, as well as gardens, recreational facilities, etc. However, as a society, our group process skills are just beginning to develop, and getting anything done or decided in communities tends to be painfully slow and tedious. I don't know how much money really is saved from living this way, but I imagine that it is wonderful for raising children. All the best, Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 02:24:42 EST I agree with Barbara that we do not heal anyone. People can only heal themselves. But I also like Shepherd's point that love is love. It's not so much that love heals, it's rather that pain is esponged when love's in town. There is something wrong with all of us. And yes, we're all dying. But you can also say we're fixing and living. Is the cup half full or half empty? Cliche, cliche. The space we hold is what we are. The facts are: I'm facing an audit with the EDD (A California State Employer watch dog) where I could be fined thousands of dollars. ...and even jail! Oh no!!!! I'm facing foreclosure on my small condo that isn't even worth the loan. Oh no!!!!! I wet my bed when until I was 11 years old!!! Oh no!!! Now I can write a list of all the people that screwed me and made me the MEGA MARTYR. I could go to court and get a settlement of millions of dollars. I can prove that my parents conceived me for the sake of their insanity. What good does it do a dead man? We are all dead men and womyn. What makes us live is to make the best we can of what we thought was the worst. But that's too easy and mushy (says my critical brain of I'm owed something by everyone on the planet: including all mythical heroes.) No one owes me anything. I only owe it to myself to not be so critical of my needs not being met. My needs are no more than Gandhi's: A bed, a book, and a diaper: the rest is talk, talk, talk: me, me, me. I am so much more if I think of us and what serves us. But I need a car, shelter, food, healing stones, lifestyle, position, badges. All I need is love. If you love me, you will give me all I need. If you love me, I will take care of myself. If you love me, I will be all I can be. So....maybe I will overcome my audit. Maybe I will not suffer foreclosure. maybe I will not wet my bed. If you think of me at my best, I might become just that. That is the healing power of love. How I heal myself is to let others have what they want. Then I take what I need. I have to go to work, but my son wants to play with blocks. Why not? I'll take two minutes to break out a block or two. Then we have completion that we mattered more than my monster hole called work. My wife needs a hug and kiss before I leave and when I return. Why not? Just one hug shows that my hang-ups about not being a good provider are not as important as being a good person who loves her. That's what gives me value: taking the time to value others and not holding them as what keeps me from that non-human success. People are more important than Ideals. People matter. Matter does not matter. People that seem to be an endless pit of need, need, need just really need a hug. A real hug. One that surrenders I love you. Life sucks without love. Love is among us My expectations have not been met lately. I expected to be a God and found out that I'm just a bug. What gives me comfort is to snuggle with all you bugs. Love, Bugs Danny P.S.: It's not so bad being a bug. Bugs just want to make the world go round throught their own eyes. Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 00:42:02 PST John wrote:
>> Seth
Nope, not in the least, just not very into the Michael Teaching as my primary path anymore... so while I'm subbed to the list (among other places), I just never feel much pull to write here anymore... For the record, my mode is perseverence, so I'm still here... slogging thru the posts for the most part... Seth (Hi to those to who know me... see a couple of names I recognize on the mailing lists, who might not have heard from me in a while and heck, Hi to those who don't know me... :) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 09:45:38 -0700 Ah, but every little bug is a piece of the Tao. It probably doesn't matter how the matter manifests. The consciousness that love is there to complete and fulfill us all surely does. Bugs Danny, thank you for taking the time to share your story. Given your current scenarios, your ability to detach from circumstances that would drive others to the martyr's wailing wall or psyche ward is an inspiration to us all. Mind if I send you some healing energy? "If you love me, you will give me all I need. If you love me, I will take care of myself." I think that statement is the core of community. It's seductively and aggravatingly easy to get lost in the nitty gritty and often slimey mundane details of maintaining a semblance of order in the midst of creative and destructive chaos when you live in a group setting. The vision, the higher ideals are often trampled into the muck of dirty dishes and dirty toilets. A favorite Person of mine recently said that, as a species, humans are still evolving towards cooperation with each other. Our tendency is to divisiveness first, that is, to find issues to fight about, and then later resolve differences once the carnage of hostility is rapidly burying us. I have a feeling that keeping the vision is similar to trying to maintain the higher emotional states. I also think that since it's not possible to remain at that higher vibratory level, that practical ways of keeping the vision, that is, ways that address our profound humanness, have to be observed. I guess we need vision keepers, leaders, the talents of each role and overleaf, and a real desire to make it work. As far as community goes, an attitude of "I'll see if this serves me," is deadly. But none of this new. We all know this. So where we do we go from here? We do believe in the power of love. If we have that, everything else follows. We have to practice love, and frankly, I don't think we develop very far unless we have each other to practice on. And maybe that's what we've been doing, and the results have been pouring in. "...taking the time to value others and not holding them as what keeps me from that non-human success. People are more important than Ideals. People matter." Thank you for that reminder. We need it every day. Especially since dirty dishes are a daily fact of life. Love, Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:10:03 -0800 Dear Dan & Gloria, I love you both. Thanks to both of you for sharing. Your hearts and spirits shine through. Brin Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 16:07:31 -0500 Gloria Constantin wrote:
> [clipped]
God... This brings back some painful memories. It was the vision keepers that were keeping the vibrations high and powerful at the Koinonia community, and this while doing more than our share of the down-in-the-trenches everyday work. It was also the vision keepers who were the ones asked to leave when the financial and material going got rougher and rougher. I wonder what we would have done if we had known of Michael's Overleaves. I suspect they would have been misunderstood and misapplied, and the same results would have occured. I suspect that we all will keep polishing our community skills until we get to a point where we can support each other and our communities without intruding into each other's personal spaces. I will rejoice to see that day. Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 16:05:31 -0700 I'm sorry this evoked painful old memories, Kenbroom. I was in a community too, in the '70's, in (what I experienced to be) a provincial little town, with a lot of redneck wasteland energy pressing in on it. Goshen, Indiana is a mecca for Mennonites, and while I was stuck there for a good long while, I became part of their community, and I married one with claims to the ethnic Swiss-German heritage of the Mennonite clan. (We split up in '88--he got the house, I took the cats.) We Mennonites decided to present a "visible presence" to the surrounding community about the efficiencies and level of resource-sharing that could be achieved if people put away their egos and competitiveness. In a world that seemed to be screaming lack of everything,(including love) this made sense. We had good intentions. We bought a house, we literally pooled all our money, doled out weekly allowances, and created a budget. We identified the various household tasks and divied them up, with rotating included, so no one was ever stuck with the same shitty job. We had dinner together nearly every night (oi vey), and every Wednesday, night-long spiritual (type) sharing and caring. The Mennonite church we attended was proud of us, and curious too, about how we were making it work. Various members would drop in regularly for meals, (I'm gonna brag here--I was an incredible cook and soon I had most of this duty assigned to me) and hopefully some gossip to take away. Soon two or three of these "communities" sprang up, following our wobbly example. We were interested in "leveling," in attempting to create a foundation of equal opportunity for everyone. Now the truth is, only three of us were working full-time jobs (myself, my ex, and a colleg prof), and the other six were still in college. I developed some feelings about that after a while. And after a while, there were a lot of feelings being developed about a lot of things--lack of privacy, noise, basic philosophical disagreements that became entities in their own right. We were terribly fledgling, and there was really no way for us to anticipate what was ahead. We had a vision, but no real strategy. Nevertheless, it was a great learning experience. We hit boundaries head on, we came face to face with what we could and could not live with, and what we needed to re-examine and revise about ourselves and--everything. Splitting up was inevitable for a lot of reasons, notwithstanding that essence was relentlessly pulling each one of us towards our life tasks and karmas. I have more than an inkling that the Koinonia community you were involved with Ken, was considerably further along. When you said "It was also the vision keepers who were the ones asked to leave when the financial and material going got rougher and rougher," it makes me think that the vision just got too scary. And that since there was so much tension and dissension, perhaps (there were thoughts that) vision was actually the cause of it in some nameless, illogical way, or perhaps the vision wasn't anything other than some stupid illusion that could never be achieved, a mind-fuck the group subjected itself to in the delirious hope that love could really manifest among men. I think there are times when we would rather live in our egos and duke it out at the level of personality because that has blood and guts in it, something we all know intimately well. It's obvious that the ability to live together in community is an evolving process, just as we are all constantly moving towards greater expression of essence. It's partly an experience thing, and it's definitely a thing drawn graphically by desire. There are many of us who have been tempered by the experience of community, and have survived it, and plenty of other internal monads to boot. Really, with all the sacred ammunition we've managed to stockpile, I think some of us may be getting ready to re-apply for the new, improved version. In any case, and despite everything, we all believe that love is here, among us. Love, Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 17:18:49 -0600 It was good of you Gloria, to share what must have been both an exciting and a painful experience. IMHO, what gets in the way of course, is Ego, which struggles constantly for survival. And I wonder how difficult it would be for all of us to learn our lessons on the physical plane if we were able to destroy the ego and live together in Communities with total peace and amenity. I wonder if these communities fail simply because we have too many lessons yet to learn that we cannot learn by setting aside the individuality we provide ourselves between lives. From some of the channelings I have read, as we reach 7th Level Old, we even drop away from all of society (in many instances), because we are preparing for "true integration". While I love people and the Michael Teachings, I believe that our purpose here does require a certain amount of "solitary" growth, however painful that might be. Love and Laughter :-)) Jeanne Holley Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 19:25:11 -0500 Gloria Constantin wrote:
> I'm sorry this evoked painful old memories, Kenbroom.
Actually I'm glad the memories came up. I didn't know they were there. So I just released them to Spirit. Another load off my inner mind.
> > [clipped]
Yes, it was further along in size and age.
> When you said "It was also the vision keepers who were the ones asked
I hadn't thought about this POV. It makes a lot of sense. Thank you, Gloria. There was much talk about what "Spirituality" is, but the way the leadership wanted to be more "Spiritual" was to impose more rules and regulations, rather than move toward a more responsible love and freedom. I guess the vision we held was really too far ahead of where we actually were at that time.
> [clipped]
It's been my experience that most folks would rather hold on to familiar pain rather than to release the pain and move into peace and well being.
> [clipped]
Peace and Light to You and Yours, Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:07:59 EST Sorry...new to the whole mailing list thing...and I don't do chat rooms too often. In Most However something? It Might happen something? Guess I'm not too good with o words... I might have done something that begins with an o? ----------------- Kris Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:17:49 EST What does it mean when someone has made a choice to be alone in this life? I
feel that I must have, on some level. But I don't know why. I mean, I have many
close friendships and connections with people...but I still feel that I don't
involve myself to that level where you get stuck. Or depend on people. I like
being on my own. This is a good thing in lots of ways, I suppose. But it makes
me wonder a bit. And it is also...well...lonely! It makes me feel separated from
the mainstream. So I feel it is a significant choice, I just can't figure out
(or maybe remember) why I made it! Any help or insight into this (and the IMHO
thing) would be much appreciated! ------------------ Kris Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 21:42:52 -0800 Kris, Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:52:50 EST Thanks for all that love. I feel it. I have to ask why do I cling to pain? I'm stubborn. It's not easy to admit I'm wrong. It makes me responsible for other people's pain that I swore was everyone else's fault. I have so much invested in being right that I don't allow the clarity to see what is. Feeling saved is something I want. But I can't feel saved unless I feel like I'm in danger. Is this what the great game is all about? To obscure our memories so that we forget that we are always a part of Tao and we spin ourselves till we're dizzy and can't find our way easily back to or entity mates until lifetimes of tests and realizations have occured? If that's so, we are playing a really hard game. Winning means nothing to me without effort, struggle and challenge. But I do need to pace myself or I'm gonna die before half-time. Balance is the key to longevity. Michael teaches us about the four pillars:JP introduced me to them, Barbara reminded me of them and Victoria's helping me use them right now. I am very fortunate to have an intellectual community with a vast amount of heart and soul. Just a bug who loves you, Dan P.S.: I think Edgar Cayce's Story Of Attitudes And Emotions by Jeffrey Furst describes the four pillars as well in chapter 7:Balanced Living: The Problem Of Extremes. He calls them Work, Play, Home and Spiritual pursuit. I assume that Home is Rest and Spiritual pursuit is Study.
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