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October 6, 1973



06 October 1973
Present: SC and RC, RH and AH.
COME JOIN US TONIGHT.
RC: Who are you?
WE ARE HERE WITH YOU TONIGHT.
RC: And who are you?
WE ARE CALLED BY YOU, MICHAEL. WHY THE CONCERN?
RC: I guess because the greeting was different.
HOW RIGID.
RC: That's true. We wouldn't want to spend the time talking to "Christmas
Past".
THIS ENTITY WAS GUILTY OF THAT TYPE OF HUMOR AT ONE TIME TOO.
RC: July of this year, by any chance?
NO.
RH: I have a complaint and comment and a question. I don't seem to be able
to change knowledge into "being" [a Gurdjieff term for spiritual growth],
and I don't feel any different.
YOU DO APPROACH "BEING" UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF MARIJUANA. THIS IS AN
INCONTROVERTIBLE MESSAGE ABOUT THE PACE OF YOUR LIFE. MARIJUANA SLOWS THE
RESPONSES TO PHYSICAL PHENOMENA AND HEIGHTENS EMOTIONAL RESPONSE TO ALL
EXPERIENCES. YOU FEEL THE MUSIC INSTEAD OF HEARING IT. THE FIVE PRIMITIVE
SENSES BELONG TO FALSE PERSONALITY. THEY CAN BE COMPARED TO MARGARINE THEY
WILL NEVER BE BUTTER, NO MATTER HOW YOU COLOR THEM OR PACKAGE THEM. YOUR
LIFE IS NOT GEARED FOR UNDERSTANDING, JUST TOILING. WE KNOW THAT THIS IS
DIFFICULT FOR R.C. AND R.H. HOWEVER, JESUS WAS TRYING TO TELL THIS SAME
TRUTH TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO. WE KEEP TELLING YOU [that] YOU MUST CHOOSE
YOUR PATH. IF THAT [chosen path] IS SPIRITUAL LIBERATION, THEN YOU MUST
ELIMINATE THE DISTRACTIONS OF MAYA. IF THE GOAL IS DIFFERENT, THEN THE PATH
WILL BE DIFFERENT, AND YOU ARE CORRECT IN ASSUMING THAT WE DON'T CARE [which
path you choose]. WE IMPART THE LOGOS DISPASSIONATELY. IT IS YOURS TO ACCEPT
OR REJECT.
RC to SC: Do you want to go back to work so you can liberate my spirit?
RH: Michael told us not to change jobs at this time, it was too traumatic.
AH: Previously Michael said that we would all reach the same goal, so why
not do it now?
RH: RB said the same thing. I've been listening to this kind of stuff for 4
years, and there isn't any change. Maybe there has been a tiny change, I
don't know.
SC: You mean in you?
RH: Yeah.
SC: There's been a big change in you since I first met you. Heavens!
RH: Maybe externally.
RC: You may be too close to notice the change day to day. Someone who sees
you once a week, like me, notices.
SC: You were fairly unapproachable when I first met you emotionally. You
weren't rude or anything; you were always polite. Most of my relations at
that time were non-person to non-person. There wasn't anything coming from
me either.
RH: Guess I'm saying there has to be large internal changes in order to make
a change in jobs, before I can trust cosmic influences. Soleal said you have
to use your own resources. Michael is saying, "Don't toil so much". That's
what I'm complaining about. They say not to work so hard.
WE HOLD UP SOLEAL AS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THIS CAN BE DONE BY SOMEONE LIVING
VERY MUCH IN THE WORLD. HE IS NOT AN ASCETIC BY ANY STRETCH OF THE
IMAGINATION. HE SIMPLY HAS LEARNED TO DISSOCIATE HIMSELF FROM THE MUNDANE
AND CONCENTRATE ON THE ARCANE. THE DECISION TO PURSUE SPIRITUAL LIBERATION
IS AN AGONIZING ONE FOR EVERYONE WHO MAKES IT, WITHOUT EXCEPTION. NO ADEPT
HAS FOUND IT EASY. IF WE HAVE LED YOU TO THINK THAT BEING AN OLD SOUL MEANS
BEING ON THE GRAVY TRAIN, THAT IS YOUR MISINTERPRETATION. IT IS PROBABLY THE
MOST DIFFICULT [cycle] OF ALL. THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES IT BETTER IS YOUR
OWN READINESS TO STAND APART FROM THE MAINSTREAM AND BEGIN TO VERIFY. THIS,
OF COURSE, MAKES YOU EVEN ODDER THAN EVER.
RH: We're likely to feel alienated from society. Perhaps the Young souls who
are with it do not feel the alienation.
SC: I'm sure the Roman form of government looked really good to those
people. It is not too different then than now, except for the slaves.
AH: We have slaves now: [our husbands] RC and RH.
SC: The question is, do you really want to pursue the spiritual path, and if
so, you wouldn't care.
RH: So many people in YS's [Gurdjieff] group are on welfare. They do not
seem to be doing any better than anyone else on the spiritual path.
SC: There are things (vocations) you could do to support yourself that would
be in your Essence. This wouldn't be toiling.
RC: Does Soleal do it by setting aside a time every day or is it a continual
thing?
DO WHAT?
RC: Work on spiritual growth.
HE WORKS ON IT ALL THE TIME.
RC: Is he separated from his false personality?
WE DID NOT SAY THAT. HE WORKS ON IT.
RC: I don't see how he can work on it all the time.
RH: As long as you're in false personality, you aren't going anywhere
(spiritually).
RC: I see as long as I'm in false personality, I'm blocking and wasting much
energy and I suppose the best thing to do would be to separate from false
personality as much as possible.
SOLEAL HAS A TENDENCY NOT TO TRUST HIS DECISIONS UNTIL HE HAS FANTASIZED
OVER THE ALTERNATIVES, NONE OF WHICH ARE RELEVANT AND COME FROM VESTIGIAL
FALSE PERSONALITY.
RH: I was out to dinner with old friends the other night and I did not enjoy
it so much, as I thought they were not on the spiritual path and I may be
wasting my time; then I think if I'd gone stoned, I would have enjoyed it.
It's like my personality jams the personal relationships and shuts enjoyment
out. I know I'm not on the right path when I feel my life should be over,
etc.
RC: I feel I got information in another session that you can do the same
thing within yourself as you can under marijuana.
RH: I've been working on this for years and there seems just no way to get
rid of personality. I think when I'm stoned I'll be able to do it but as
soon as I become unstoned, I can't. What Gurdjieff says is, it's a
step-by-step process in which a work "I" becomes dominant over the other
"I's" in personality, and is always working on this problem. Later, you
develop "deputy steward," and finally the "steward" that keeps personality
in line on the straight and narrow. My work has been such that I cannot
verify this. Even if I'm organized, my personality is still the same dusty
way.
RC: I see it as a ruler, and you have progressed one inch and you can't see
that you've even gone one one-thousandth of an inch.
RH: As I measure and have the ashes of life and see life as a bore, I know
I'm not on the path. Progress would be more joyous and pleasurable, and
there would be a love to toil. I see also that to sit around stoned all day
is not the way either.
S.C. AND R.H. WERE AT ONE TIME IN THIS LIFE EMOTIONALLY BARREN. NEITHER IS
TODAY. THAT IS PROGRESS.
RH: I'm still barren emotionally.
RC: I feel good, but I do not feel progress, and am jealous of SC because
she has more time to read than I do.
RH: There's a thing that causes transformation and I'd like to know if love
is the thing that causes the transformation. In the past, it was always
aroused by someone else.
LOVE OF SELF.
RH: Doesn't sound right.
EROS IS A PRODUCT OF FALSE PERSONALITY AND IS BASED ON THE SIGNS AND SYMBOLS
OF THE PHYSICAL PLANE. THERE IS NOTHING SPIRITUAL ABOUT THIS AT ALL. IT IS
BASED ON PHYSICAL ATTRACTIVENESS AND DEPENDS UPON STABILITY TO PERPETUATE
ITSELF.
RH: That still doesn't answer my question. Simply in the past, love always
was directed toward someone; now what do we do, direct it towards God or
Jesus?
AH: They said direct it to yourself.
RH: You can't do that not a burning love inside yourself.
A DEEP SENSE OF SPIRITUAL SATISFACTION IS THE ONLY REWARD THAT WE KNOW OF.
YOU MAY CALL IT ECSTASY OR WHATEVER YOU WISH. STOP A MOMENT AND ASK YOURSELF
WHY IT IS THAT YOU SEARCH, AND FOR WHAT.
RH: Tomas lectured to us so much on not being selfish, that that was
incorrect to be selfish.
THAT DEPENDS ON YOUR PERCEPTION OF SELF. IF YOU PERCEIVE YOURSELVES AS PART
OF THE LARGER WHOLE, THEN LOVING SELF BECOMES AGAPE.
RH: It's a substitute search for me.
LOVING THE CREATIVE FORCE ITSELF REQUIRES SEPARATION FROM ANY
PERSONIFICATION.
SC: What do you mean, "substitute search"?
RH: I found in this past thing this high state of love every moment was
overflowing. Day and night I was "turned on" and that's the only way I
know how to describe it and now I'm too old and it's too late for this
kind of search. So I take this substitute search. I've known all along it's
a substitute search, and that the path is more difficult, and I plod along,
and maybe it will result in feeling good in that high state.
THE SOUL EXPERIENCES ALL EMOTIONS AT A DIFFERENT LEVEL THAN DOES THE MORE
TEMPORAL ORGANISM. THE VISCERAL PLEASURES ARE TEMPORARY. WE DO NOT SUGGEST
THAT YOU ESCHEW THEM, JUST DO NOT EXPECT THEM TO SUSTAIN THE ESSENCE.
RH: They are mistaken. They are taking it for visceral. What I'm saying is I
experienced things on a high, spiritual level, and I'll never get back to
that level.
THAT IS REALLY INACCURATE. YES, THAT WAS A HIGH EXPRESSION, BUT YOU CAN
DUPLICATE IT.
RH: There's this problem not being able to go around stoned all the time. A
person might be able to meet someone. Unless I was stoned, I'd get no
signals. My personality is turned off to that.
RC: Is it possible to be high without the use of grass?
YOU TELL US, R.C., IS IT?
RC: With meditation, I am close.
THEN PERHAPS, FOR YOU, IT WILL BE POSSIBLE. IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW THE
LIBERATION COMES ABOUT. IF IT REQUIRES MARIJUANA FOR A WHILE, THEN SO BE IT.
RH: Even under the circumstances of a love relationship, false personality
is waiting to gobble.
RC: I guess it gobbled me, too.
RH: False personality is always on guard. As far as personality goes, it is
not going to be duplicated. It's amazing how false personality will avoid
painful or even good situations. You make excuses and justify
intellectually, even manufacturing illnesses to avoid doing something.
AH: Look at the Jehovah's Witnesses who come to the door. They certainly
have a certain amount of love and enthusiasm for Jesus.
THERE IS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TRANSFERENCE OF EROTICISM IN THE "LOVE OF
JESUS". IN THAT SITUATION YOU ARE MERELY SUBSTITUTING THE NONEXISTENT LOVER
WITH THE PERSONIFICATION OF THE INFINITE SOUL.
RH: When love is turned on, this in itself puts you on a high. Maybe that's
"man number four" [balanced man] according to Gurdjieff, and it is not
permanent.
THE LOVE OF THE LOGOS OR AGAPE PERMEATED THE BEING OF JESUS EVEN PRIOR TO
THE MANIFESTATION. HE LIVED FOR THE WORD. THE QUEST FOR SPIRITUAL LIBERATION
TOOK PRECEDENCE OVER ALL THINGS, SOMETIMES TO HIS DESPAIR PRIOR TO
MANIFESTATION. THIS WAS AN EMOTIONALLY CENTERED MERCURY-SATURN. HE WAS
PASSIONATE AND SENSUAL. WHEN OTHERS REJECTED HIS OPINIONS, HE WAS
ASTONISHED.
I had the feeling that _____ said that everybody good was Saturn. I had it
beaten into me, and I guess it is so. They are strong, smart, big, with
strong teeth. When I learned the Bodytype information, it really put me
down. It's not a good feeling to be told you have a feminine body when
you're a man. Venusians are weak and non-existent. There's nothing good
about Venusians.
The same goes for the Lunar type not much can you say about them that is
good: timid, obstinate, feminine, ad nauseum.
I felt in _____'s group that only men in the active Bodytypes could
contribute anything to the group except for money. You could not even be his
friend unless you were an active Bodytype. The Bodytype stuff is the
Bodytype stuff I verified it as true.
THE BODYTYPES REFER TO CHARACTERISTICS THAT BELONG TO FALSE PERSONALITY. IT
IS IN THE SAME CATEGORY AS SAYING, "I AM A TYPICAL LEO OR TAURUS". IF YOU
BELIEVE YOURSELF TO BE A VICTIM OF YOUR BODYTYPE, YOU ARE. IN FACT, YOU ARE
VIRTUALLY IMPRISONED BY IT. ANYTHING THAT IS TIED TO THE TEMPORAL PHYSICAL
PLANE DEALS WITH FALSE PERSONALITY. THAT WHICH EXISTS SPIRITUALLY AND
INDEPENDENT OF THE PHYSICAL IS OF THE ESSENCE.
My false personality latched on to the information as to "why I'm not good".
Venusians are not generally successful.
NO, NOT IF THEY ALLOW THIS VERY STRONG SELF-DEPRECATION FACTOR TO RULE THE
ROOST.
If given the information and you go around carrying a green lantern and you
say, "Look, I'm green".
SC: It's like saying, "I always knew I was no good; now look, I have proof".
RH: I have not been chosen for a significant role in life because of the
type of my body. It is no good.
THE ROLE YOU HAVE CHOSEN IS NOT ONE OF DOMINANCE BY PHYSICAL PROWESS; NOR IS
IT ONE OF FAILURE. THE ROLE YOU PLAY NOW IS NOT IN ESSENCE, MORE BECAUSE OF
THE WAY YOU PLAY IT THAN THE SUBSTANCE OF THE ROLE. BEING A HEALER IS IN
ESSENCE FOR YOU, BUT YOU HAVE LITTLE OPPORTUNITY TO DISPLAY THIS SAME AS
R.C. HE HAS NO SUITABLE OUTLET FOR THE CREATIVITY THAT IS IN ESSENCE; [They
were both later said to be Artisans.] THEREFORE [he] IS FRUSTRATED MOST OF
THE TIME.
That's the price you pay. We could live the same if we pooled our resources.
It depends on how frugal you are. RC has no mortgage but SC does. (We asked
her why she didn't sell her house and get rid of some excess baggage,
especially when she has complained more than once on the taking of a tax
loss of a grand a year due to her feeling sorry for the renters, who are on
welfare.)
S.C. COULD NOT TELL T. TO MOVE EVEN WHEN IT MEANT THAT S.C. WAS NO LONGER
COMFORTABLE IN HER OWN HOME. THE SENSE OF OBLIGATION STEMS FROM KARMIC
RIBBONS, YES, BUT NOW THAT YOU KNOW THIS, WE SUGGEST TO YOU THAT YOU ATTEMPT
TO BURN THEM.
would like any information on the soul levels of my family. I have a feeling
that the children were older souled than my parents, especially my father.
He expected so much from all of us.
MOST OF YOU WERE RAISED BY SOULS YOUNGER THAN YOURSELVES. R.H.'S MOTHER,
M.A.H., WAS THE ONLY OLDER SOUL. A.H.'S FATHER AND R.C.'S MOTHER ARE BABY
SOULS. A.H'S MOTHER AND R.C.'S FATHER WERE MATURE SOULS. S.C.'S FATHER IS A
MATURE SOUL. HER MOTHER WAS A YOUNG SOUL. WE HAVE DISCUSSED C. AND H.
BEFORE. (The name "H" was not believed to be mentioned in SC's or RC's
presence before. RH had referred to him as "my father.")
E seems to be a Baby soul, R an Old soul, R a Mature or Young soul (these
being AH's siblings).
R. AND A.H. WERE FIRST BORN AT THE SAME TIME, THOUGH NOT A PART OF THE SAME
ENTITY. E. IS A BABY SOUL. R. IS A THIRD LEVEL YOUNG SOUL.
RC: Could we have a clarification of Fragments and Entities?
THE HIGHER PLANES EACH HAVE SEVEN LEVELS OF EVOLUTION, NOT JUST THE
PHYSICAL. THE CONTINUOUS CREATIVE FORCE THAT IS UNIVERSAL CASTS OUT ENTITIES
INTO PHYSICAL LIFETIMES. THESE ENTITIES FRAGMENT AND BECOME MANY DIFFERENT
PERSONALITIES. THEIR INTEGRATION IS THE EVOLUTIONARY PATTERN FOR ALL SOULS.
YOU DO NOT FEEL THE DESIRE TO SEEK THE REMAINING FRAGMENTS OF YOUR ENTITY
UNTIL THE LAST PHYSICAL CYCLE. THEN AT THAT TIME THERE IS ALMOST A
COMPULSION. YOU DO NOT ALWAYS KNOW WHY, BUT YOU ALWAYS DO SEEK. KURT
VONNEGUT [an author] IS AN OLD SOUL WHO KNOWS THIS DIMLY, BUT DOES NOT KNOW
THE REASON. [He] DOES KNOW THE THIRST AND HE HAS COME CLOSE, VERY CLOSE IN
HIS WRITING. HE FEELS THE COMPULSION BUT DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE REASONS FOR
IT. HE HAS COME CLOSE SEVERAL TIMES IN HIS FICTIONAL WORKS. THIS CONCEPT
DOES NOT HAVE TO BE EXPRESSED IN THEOLOGICAL TERMINOLOGY IN ORDER TO BE
VALID. MANY WHO SEEK AND FIND ARE ATHEISTS. THAT IS ALL RIGHT. THE TAO DOES
NOT REQUIRE BELIEF IN ORDER TO CONTINUE.
Are there cycles of souls mentioned in the Rosicrucians?
SC: Not to my knowledge.
RH: It seems that the unification of Fragments goes on inter [between
physical] life[times]. You can't do it here, can you?
YOU CAN, BUT IT IS DIFFICULT. IT REQUIRES PSYCHIC UNION, AND THAT BY
DEFINITION REQUIRES THAT YOU BE AN ADEPT. THAT IS ALWAYS [sexually] POLAR.
IT IS USUALLY DONE BETWEEN LIVES.
RH: You could not possibly experience all there is to experience in forty
nine lives. Do Fragments experience between lives?
RC: Can we assume then when the Entity is reintegrated, it has experienced
everything there is on the physical plane?
IT HAS EXPERIENCED ALL OF LIFE, YES. EACH FRAGMENT DOES NOT NEED ALL
EXPERIENCES, BUT MOST FRAGMENTS CHOOSE TO EXPERIENCE ALL OF LIFE.
SC: Can we live over and over the same type of vocation in many cycles.
IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO CHANGE THE PARTICULAR VOCATION AS MUCH AS THE
LOCATION IN ORDER TO EXPERIENCE ALL OF LIFE. FOR INSTANCE, BEING A PHYSICIAN
ON MAINLAND CHINA DOES IN NO WAY RESEMBLE BEING IN PRACTICE IN VALLEJO,
CALIFORNIA. R.H. WOULD BE ABLE TO RELATE TO THE PRACTICE OF MEDICINE IN
ANCIENT EGYPT MORE EASILY THAN THE RICE PADDIES OF TODAY.
RH: Are towns segregated by age of souls?
BABY SOULS TEND TO CONGREGATE IN MID AMERICA TOWNS. THIS TO THEM REPRESENTS
THE "GOOD LIFE". YOUNG SOULS LIKE THE URBAN LIFE OR THE COUNTRY. THE MATURE
SOULS SEEK TRANQUILLITY, AND IF THIS MEANS ISOLATION, THEN SO BE IT. OLD
SOULS LIVE ALL OVER.
RH: In my practice, I see so few people that I can relate to. They are happy
to see me, I guess, but there is not much rapport. Their Centers are
different. They're happy to come there, but there seems to be an overlay of
IQ as well as income.
VALLEJO IS A MOVING-CENTERED COMMUNITY POPULATED HEAVILY BY BABY SOULS.
THERE IS RACIAL UNREST AND MUCH STRIFE. THE AVERAGE IQ THERE IS 90.
INTELLIGENCE MEANS DIFFERENT THINGS TO DIFFERENT CULTURES. SOME CULTURES
STRESS SURVIVAL. OTHERS STRESS SCHOLASTICS. THEREBY HANGS THEIR CRITERIA FOR
MEASURING INTELLIGENCE.
RH: We take heredity as the main cause of intelligence and some from
environment.
AH: How about brain deficiency? How does that fit with karma?
GENETICALLY DETERMINED DEFICIENCIES DO EXIST. THEY ARE NOT PARTICULARLY
DISTRIBUTED. IN OTHER WORDS, THERE IS A BAD GENE, BUT THIS CULTURE HAS NEVER
STRESSED INTELLECTUAL PURSUITS AND NEVER WILL. THERE ARE NO SUPERIOR
ORIENTAL GENES, BUT THIS CULTURE HAS ALWAYS STRESSED KNOWLEDGE, AND A
CERTAIN AMOUNT OF THIS IS INCULCATED IN THE CULTURE SO DEEPLY THAT IT HAS
BECOME HEREDITARY IN A VERY OBSCURE FASHION. IT IS IMMEASURABLE, BUT
PERVASIVE. SOME OF YOU WERE BLACK IN PREVIOUS LIVES, AND SOME BLACKS HAVE
BEEN WHITE. IN THEM THERE ARE RACIAL MEMORIES THAT CAUSE THEM TO SEEK
OUTSIDE OF THEIR CULTURE.
Were all races created simultaneously? Is evolution still going on?
NEW SPECIES ARE NO LONGER APPEARING ON YOUR PLANET; ALTERATIONS CONTINUE.
THE RACES EVOLVED FROM A SINGLE RACE. THEY ARE HYBRIDS.
Where was the location of the origin of the species?
IN THE MIDDLE EAST.
RH: Who else is part of my Entity, and how many more are involved?
THIS IS A LENGTHY SUBJECT BUT WE WILL TRY TO ENCAPSULATE. WE HAVE TOLD YOU
THAT YOU ARE REUNITING AND THAT IS TRUE, BUT YOU ARE NOT NECESSARILY PART OF
THE SAME ENTITY. R.C., S.T., AND D. ARE FRAGMENTS OF THE SAME ANCIENT
ENTITY; R.H., P.J. AND E.T. ARE; S.C. AND A.H. ARE.


 

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